Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Unvote

My mood is all y’all can die. I am the serial killer (joke)

And I'm the jester.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VC 4.02

With 7 players, it takes 4 to make a decision. Day 4 ends in (expired on 2022-05-08 22:30:00).

VC

MalcolmTucker [2]:

humaneatingmonkey [3360], KittyTacky [3500] ---

E-2

KittyTacky [1]:

MalcolmTucker [3355]

humaneatingmonkey [1]:

Malakittens [3397]

Not voting [3]:

Gamma Emerald, Roden [3392], MathBlade [3491]

flavor

Spoiler:

[MalcolmTucker]

Just because someone claimed a role doesn't mean they are a worthy kill.

God if I get eliminated this is going to look so scummy, especially since Kitty had been reluctant to put their vote on me initially so they could see which way the winds blew.

[MalcolmTucker]

Kitty all game has been voting for anyone who does anything remotely anti-town, yet is now boasting about voting for someone who is going to come back as a PR. Amazing how it's suddenly fine for them to doubt PR claims when it suits them.

[MalcolmTucker]

The presumption on me being mafia here is essentially based on the idea that I've spent all game literally doing things that are the antithesis of being beneficial to the mafia because it makes me look more like a townie. I get that can be a helpful approach for a while but it only tends to work for so long. And when there are other roles in the game that can potentially reveal your identity anyway it would have been possible for all my work to be undone anyway if I'd been mafia playing that way. It doesn't make sense.

I know wagons alone do not tell a player's allegiance but fundamentally it is quite remarkable I'm currently under more suspicion than HEM who has now twice hammered townies and Kitty who continually and almost exclusively pushed players who turned out to be town.

?? That may be someone else’s point but that’s not mine.

Mine is that your PR play and day play makes you very likely scum.

I for the life of me, cannot figure out why you Jailkeep Kitty twice. It just seems like a fake claim but you don’t want to give clears.

Brb dinner

I have cleared all this up. I've never played the role before, I wasn't sure how to approach it. D1 I had mild suspicions on Kitty and felt like they may be the more hidden mafia using the kill. D2 I decided to stay on them as I was becoming more confident. D3 I tried you to switch it up a bit. If I wanted to lie about clears I'd surely throw more names in there?

[MalcolmTucker]

But this - again - ignores the point that'd been made that scum wouldn't want to sit on role claimed players without a solid case against said claim. Their logic was again the exact same here despite the fact I'd pointed out this was in my opinion more likely to come from lazy/uninformed town than scum.

You seem to assume that scum would play flawlessly and perfectly logically. Why?! That's a huge assumption to make.

They don't play perfectly, but they also don't just casually reveal themselves and consistently doing nothing but voting for play that seems anti-town is not always a good idea. I have explained this so many times now...you voted and justified your vote on Italiano for identical reasons to your vote on Scorpious but it was wrong.

[MathBlade]

Can’t get lower than zero clears.

I wish I was clear but that’s not how any of this works.

Gamma Roden Who would you shoot if you were one shot dayvigs?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d probably shoot humaneatingmonkey
Not exactly inventive but he’s become a bit of a mental block for me atp

[Roden]

Default answer is Malcolm. Spicy answer is one of my town reads in case I'm pocketed.

[MalcolmTucker]

Alright, been doing some digging, and while I've TR'd Roden for most of the game I think there's a very real possibility Roden could be partners with Kitty. Here's my case.

For what's gotten me onto Roden - I understand players doubt my claim for a variety of reasons but I keep coming back to 3390 because it is genuinely a ridiculous reasoning for why they think I am mafia.

Roden's assertion here is that essentially I have been deep wolfing by repeatedly clearing townies such as Scorpious and Italiano who were voted out to make myself look more townie.

But the problem here is that this only works on a logic where I can know in advance who is going to be eliminated and pick my TR's from there. I have suspected Kitty and HEM for most of the game. That's not a secret. HEM especially has been a prime candidate for elimination at certain points in the game. Knowing that, how does it just happen to be the case that I've conveniently only ended up backing townies who were later eliminated? Scum have to push someone - and if I'm mafia, it's not as if I've strayed away from going all-in on players who - in this hypothetical scenario - would come back town if eliminated. My play is described as "squeaky clean" but remember I heavily pushed NK15 early on and probably to some degree influenced their eventual role reveal. That's hardly "squeaky clean".

But I feel like the case for them being teammates gets stronger when you start to take a look through Kitty's ISO for interactions between the two of them. There's really not all that much here and it convincingly reads like two scum teammates wary to interact with each other.

Kitty in 1085 says it "doesn't feel right" that Roden could end up being mafia but doesn't elaborate much further than this. Note that for most of the game Kitty has employed a more evidence-based style where they used gameplay to case and help eliminate Scorpious and Italiano - things that seemed anti-townie had to come from scum so were worth a vote. But here Roden is worthy of a cautious town gut-read. If Kitty is scum, they don't go in too hard on this though because Flavor was keen on Roden at the time for a possible elimination.

In 985 before this Roden showed up to argue against a Kitty wagon by trying to direct players back onto the Mala wagon which had never really worked out all that well. Note Roden doesn't argue against the wagon itself and doesn't inherently say it's bad - they just find a reason to deflect away from it.

In 1165 Kitty makes a readslist which places Kitty in their null/neutral category despite previouslt saying they were unlikely to be mafia. Why is Roden null here? Kitty has clearly expressed a preference. Andre is, of course, also null, but this feels quite NAI given their inactivity. Notably, as I've mentioned before, Kitty's three scumreads here are all now confirmed town and were all suspected by Kitty for the same, identical and flawed reasoning to try and appear more townie.

By 2192 Kitty again says Roden is not "particularly scummy" - another hedgy read that's hardly a ringing endorsement but very much leaves scope for either a proper defence or bus if needed.

Note that in 3395 Kitty was "neutral" on me despite the eventual vote then later coming in. Roden voted for me at the start of D3 but then took away their vote for a bit. This indicates to me they were both hedging their bets a bit here in case the town either completely believed my case, or if they were wary they'd look too eager by immediately voting for me given they know I am town.

[Roden]

I literally told you why I unvoted but ok

Do you think there's pocketing going on in any direction between me and HEM?

[humaneatingmonkey]

what do you think Roden

why dont you stop flirting with the idea of shading me and confront me directly

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kitty I share the same read as you do in as much as they're willing to hide behind a fatalistic will that town will never do X. He has been proven wrong with Scorpious but he made the same excuse as Italiano. I can understand that read.
Math, I've been waiting for them to turn online and dominate the game because that's how i experienced them in the large normal, but they never really read the thread. Although, I sympathize because I haven't done that myself.

You mean how I said I wouldn’t do that as I have been putting in lots of OT at work?

You’re literally just making up shit now.

making what up?

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's also annoying as hell that you keep raising the idea that i'm pocketing you while you're not attempting looking at it yourself. it sorta seems like you're soliciting a scum case so you can have an excuse to go vote me even though you postured about townreading me the whole game.

and also, Italiano was right. Your Malakittens vote after mine was evidence that you were sheeping me and your excuse that it was your own volition and a continuation of your initial vote made no sense since nothing changed on that front.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i feel like i'm scum sponge right now. there's a chance the two remaining scum are exactly in the set of people trying to push me — especially for the most dubious reasons. Math and Kitty is the only one who's pushing me because of PoE and Malcolm is getting soft on my slot even though I'm the most viable elim. so if these are the people that are being pushed as scum today, and they're who i think would be town based on positioning, then this is compatible with a scum-controlled gamestate.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Scum could very well be in {Gamma Emerald, Malakittens, Roden} as posturing to have me elimmed for the most dubious reasons. Roden is a new alternative because of his recent movements.

[Roden]

what do you think Roden

why dont you stop flirting with the idea of shading me and confront me directly

I'm trying to work through my paranoia after getting pocketed multiple games in a row, I want more outside takes. But also I'm trying to understand why we're not getting paired by anyone at this point. We're only getting scum read individually, but no one's coming to either of us telling us to wake the fuck up and reevaluate. The implication with solves like Roden/Kitty or HEM/Kitty is that we're pocketed in some way, but no one's outright said that.

[Roden]

Also I don't think Gamma or Mala are controlling the game state in any particular way. I don't think they've been active enough to do that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes but i'm more entertaining a gamestate where town is self-cannibalizing and scum is playing a low-key game. right now, scum's winning strategy is to secure two miselims. that's it. that's what they need to do. who do you think is inching towards that finish line?

[Roden]

There's not really any way we can go wrong here as town unless HEM were town and to gain some unique insight from rereading the whole thing. If HEM comes back town we go for Jackson next. If HEM is mafia then we're all good and we eliminate Jackson surely?

If HEM is mafia then we're all good and we eliminate Jackson surely?

Is this a slip?

Nah that was a typo. Meant if Jackson isn't.

Where does "if Jackson isn't" fit into that post?

In case I die, please don't forget this tomorrow, because Malcolm never responded.

Also, if you think the voting patterns are alignment indicative, then why aren't you suspicious of Gamma? He was also on both mis-elim wagons.

I'd still like for Malcolm to respond to this btw.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think that theory holds up more than any scum trying to control the game because there isn't an obvious answer to that. meanwhile, malakittens is lining up two miselims in a row potentially if MT has a real claim here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm 50/50 on malcolm right now because while that claim is sus, he backed down off my slot and pushed you instead and i think that's out of nowhere and unstrategic for scum to do when humaneatingmonkey is sitting right there being the #1 scapegoat.

[humaneatingmonkey]

math

i sheep u on mt

can u sheep me on HEM tm

pls

this is really opportunistic

[humaneatingmonkey]

it ignores the results of mt's flip, math's alignment, and assumes she lives tomorrow.

this is blatant scum posturing.

only thing holding me back here is their reaction on Andres but a preplanned bus would explain that very well.

[Roden]

yes but i'm more entertaining a gamestate where town is self-cannibalizing and scum is playing a low-key game. right now, scum's winning strategy is to secure two miselims. that's it. that's what they need to do. who do you think is inching towards that finish line?

In that case then the Day 1 suspicions towards them were right and the resistance towards their wagons came purely from town. Those same townies have suspected you/me/Kitty for most of this game. And this also has to mean Malcom is town and really is a Simple Jailkeeper, but I don't see how that fits the set up.

Ughhhhhhh I'm gonna be really annoyed if Leaf faked a meltdown and tactically replaced out