Open 851: Would You Like To Be My Neighbor? | Game Over!

[DeasVail]

Actually, DV, can you talk more about bulge?

I'm not massively tr-ing either slot but like...I hadn't noticed the little things that std pointed out .

Hi! So bulge became a bit more concerning to me after the "huh?" with posts like this:

@anyone who voted yeet - mind explaining why you rvs voted yeet

i'd rather not have the game stall out in rvs, so i'm gonna get it started with this

cuz there was already a vote there

why are you asking for reasons behind rvs votes and not for any serious votes?

Vex's post felt like a true attempt to get the game moving, likely out of frustration from the slow start, whereas Bulge's response and follow-up question already feels defensive. The response itself is totally adequate, but the question feels reactionary rather than proactive. I think that scum will more likely feel the need to turn a question back on the asserter.

The questions in 50 and 52 also did not... impress me? My reaction to the posts is very much "okay this sure is a question".

--

A question I do have for the bulge atm though is, if you think your wagon is a device for scum, why vote Mala, who was not involved with the wagon?

--

Other update is that I read STD as town more strongly than I did before. In the recent game we played together, where STD was scum, his approach to reading me was "sure, town I guess" and this is obviously very different, but also in a way where it feels like he is actually trying to work out my alignment instead of knowing it already.

[Save The Dragons]

The questions in 50 and 52 also did not... impress me?

hmm

[Vex Vience]

honestly i think mostly everyone’s who’s posting thus far, (stranger, std, dv), are town.

@mala - do you have any other thoughts than what you replied to or no?

[Save The Dragons]

honestly i think mostly everyone’s who’s posting thus far, (stranger, std, dv), are town.

why

[Save The Dragons]

like stranger made a case on me that's kind of on the edge of attacking me without really engaging me
i have this really weird push on dv
dv's words have been kind of performative

there's plenty to scumread or at least be worried about it

[Vex Vience]

yea, but i don't think it's dv/stranger.

[Save The Dragons]

but why

[Save The Dragons]

y

[Save The Dragons]

[Vex Vience]

very tl;dr:

i don't think scum are going to stick their neck out and make some weird push like that in a slow-moving game, when they can just sit in hoods and scum pts and y'know, not really do anything? i'd expect it within the first 24-48 hours, but not outside of that, if the game is still slow-moving.
i think dv's posting makes sense from a townie pov, and i like it more than just going "yea dv's scum for this" especially after dv said that they can't fault you for thinking they're scum since that's what they'd be doing as scum. i don't think scum are going to be

that

openly honest about something like that?

[Vex Vience]

very tl;dr:

i don't think scum are going to stick their neck out and make some weird push like that in a slow-moving game, when they can just sit in hoods and scum pts and y'know, not really do anything? i'd expect it within the first 24-48 hours, but not outside of that, if the game is still slow-moving.
i think dv's posting makes sense from a townie pov, and i like it more than just going "yea dv's scum for this" especially after dv said that he can't fault you for thinking he's scum since that's what he'd be doing as scum. i don't think scum are going to be

that

openly honest about something like that?

ebwop

[Save The Dragons]

you could be dv's partner

[Vex Vience]

what's the takeaway if that's the case then?

[Stranger]

@stranger - do you think std is more likely to flip scum than bulge then? and if so, what do you think of bulge?

Ehhh...

No, not really.

The thing is that, I pointed out this... divergence in what was being said/what was being done. And it's weird, to do something else, but what benefit would a scum Dragons actually get from unvoting there unless exactly paired with Bulge?

If Dragons is scum to Bulge's town, then... Dragons isn't potentially sitting on a wagon that could easily go through because why? Fear of being incriminated later by votes or because there's a partner already voting there? You have to get your hands dirty when you play scum and I don't know that anyone would even really see hands as dirty if Bulge flipped town. It's a read that's accepted and this game is slow; it goes through, well, we have something to go with, the votes are scrutinized a bit but it's not until down the line that it becomes a big issue. And in a small game I don't... really think it gets to that, nor do I think that there has to be 4D chess played when there are simpler alternatives.

The alternative is that scum Dragons just... forgot what he was saying and his views I guess, having the discrepancy and weak newer reasons, but in a game this slow that's not very likely at all.

If Bulge flipped scum I'd look at this case again with a lot more weight but... after letting it stew, it's gotten some attention and talk. Which is all I really can ask for.

(I read backwards and I'm replying now in order so if this is out of sorts, my bad. Time isn't very real.)

[MegAzumarill]

I feel called out I just wanna vibe I'm the hood man

[Save The Dragons]

what's the takeaway if that's the case then?

that you are dv's partner

[Vex Vience]

what's the takeaway if that's the case then?

that you are dv's partner

not really what i meant, but i can't think of the proper phrasing, so i'll return to that later.

[Stranger]

I really like 79

Why?

also the assertion i havent provided game related content is absurd. i have asked more game-relevant questions than probably anyone. and nobody is trying to engage with me, on or off wagon. feels like my wagon is nothing more than a device for scum to get past a slow-moving D1.

Who do you think is taking advantage of your wagon? To me... the fact that people are voting you and saying things about you is a form of engaging, and is often easier to do than having conversation/question volleys.

And I think that the latter statement is something that you should be able to back up or expand upon, currently. Because it is quiet and I think (?) everyone has given some sort of thought about it that you can take a look at. It probably won't be strong but in a game that's quiet I think it could be easier for you, if you're town, to look at things that we can't see. Like having the perspective of "who is manipulating things versus who is trying to solve versus who is sitting back."

Were it a larger game I think this... loose finger point at the game as a whole would be more forgivable because there's a lot to work with. But here... I can't give that much of a pass.

i guess my problem is that i specifically said it wasn't a strong read, so you can see why i might not want to be at E-1 with someone so early in the game. with that knowledge, why leave my vote to see what happens when people lolhammer all the time

It was the sort of tiny little thing that had the potential to bloom into something bigger maybe.

I'm still most suspicious of Bulge, but I feel like I'm in "watch and wait" mode atm

these words just feel like writing fiction rather than actual stances, i don't know how to describe it, it just feels off from the DV i just played with but maybe i'm reading to hard into it

Do you think someone in this game would lolhammer. I guess, specifically with this table?

And sorry if you were... frustrated that I didn't interact with you/engage, because my little case was my engagement, or at least a way to begin it. It's easier to pounce onto something than it is to question for me, because if I ask questions and only questions when I see something like that I often find myself nodding and agreeing with whatever's said, even if it comes from scum.

As for your points against DV, the second one doesn't feel like a stance, frankly. If anything it's avoiding the caution to the wind approach of lolhammering and just... seeing how things play out. I don't think it's egregious. The first quote is more... abstract and words for the sake of it though. Did, in the last game, DV have takes/stances that were more concrete than that?

[Save The Dragons]

And sorry if you were... frustrated that I didn't interact with you/engage

not really

maybe it's just me but i'm having trouble reconciling your words with your vote on me

As for your points against DV, the second one doesn't feel like a stance, frankly. If anything it's avoiding the caution to the wind approach of lolhammering and just... seeing how things play out. I don't think it's egregious. The first quote is more... abstract and words for the sake of it though. Did, in the last game, DV have takes/stances that were more concrete than that?

i dunno it's hard to say, i'd say he was more direct

DV is a master of saying pretty things

it didn't feel like he was saying pretty things in the previous game i just played with him

it feels like he's just trying to say pretty things here

[Stranger]

UNVOTE:

Given the speed of the game I think my next vote will probably be one that I want to wagon to kill (duh). It's dumb to stress about over "oh God what if we don't get a wagon through because no one's around" but here I am.

[Save The Dragons]

stranger have you played with me before

[Stranger]

And sorry if you were... frustrated that I didn't interact with you/engage

not really

maybe it's just me but i'm having trouble reconciling your words with your vote on me

As for your points against DV, the second one doesn't feel like a stance, frankly. If anything it's avoiding the caution to the wind approach of lolhammering and just... seeing how things play out. I don't think it's egregious. The first quote is more... abstract and words for the sake of it though. Did, in the last game, DV have takes/stances that were more concrete than that?

i dunno it's hard to say, i'd say he was more direct

DV is a master of saying pretty things

it didn't feel like he was saying pretty things in the previous game i just played with him

it feels like he's just trying to say pretty things here

I... think that people often have that issue with me, frankly. I don't want to skulk around with claims made behind an alt but I don't think the way I think about things makes sense often with how I execute them.

And for example then, do you think post 100 has a lot of pretty things in it? To me it feels like a fairly straightforward explanation of DV's thoughts.

[Stranger]

stranger have you played with me before

Yes.

[Save The Dragons]

The questions in 50 and 52 also did not... impress me?

hmm

yes

[DeasVail]

And sorry if you were... frustrated that I didn't interact with you/engage

not really

maybe it's just me but i'm having trouble reconciling your words with your vote on me

As for your points against DV, the second one doesn't feel like a stance, frankly. If anything it's avoiding the caution to the wind approach of lolhammering and just... seeing how things play out. I don't think it's egregious. The first quote is more... abstract and words for the sake of it though. Did, in the last game, DV have takes/stances that were more concrete than that?

i dunno it's hard to say, i'd say he was more direct

DV is a master of saying pretty things

it didn't feel like he was saying pretty things in the previous game i just played with him

it feels like he's just trying to say pretty things here

do you think I would also say pretty things as town?

To give a bit of insight into my thoughts, I have often pondered whether my way of playing mafia has become too "serious business" and something I think about is how I can bring a bit more fun to it. I don't think I've really done that here but I suppose my more... interesting wording was a way of being a bit less serious with how I was expressing my thoughts.
The big part of why I think your reasoning is totally sound though is because often I am more... flamboyant (for lack of a better word) as mafia to try and create more of an impression of "looseness" and being relaxed, and my scumplay is very performative.

So yeah I don't know where this is going except that maybe as town I'm actually trying to play a bit more like how I do as scum because that seems more fun?

I don't know, that seems confusing

I am town here though