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[geraintm]

Okay I'm convinced. Scorpious seems over defensive.

VOTE: Scorpious

Lol.
A player getting pushed defending themselves is always scummy .

This wagon is gonna be fun.

I have no idea how my postngot mixed up like that.

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay I'm convinced. Scorpious seems over defensive.

VOTE: Scorpious

Lol.
A player getting pushed defending themselves is always scummy .

This wagon is gonna be fun.

I have no idea how my postngot mixed up like that.

Okay I'm convinced. Scorpious seems over defensive.

VOTE: Scorpious

Lol.
A player getting pushed defending themselves is always scummy .

This wagon is gonna be fun.[/quote
Im happy to see you get pushed
I am not happy with you being voted off]

It's not that they're defending themselves it's the way they are defending themselves.

[Carcalilly]

It's not that they're defending themselves it's the way they are defending themselves.

I'm actually gonna have to agree with this. My least favorite part of scorpius' reaction was the cryptic statements that served as a confusing softclaim or a herring distraction. As well as the flat out refusal to engage Titus. The only reason I can fathom just refusing something like that, is if you didn't want to risk slipping up any more.

[Roden]

I agree with Rodan's assessment that he was obviously "softclaiming", but am perplexed as to why he'd bring it up so quickly, and even more perplexed as to why he'd immediately demand a claim.

It feels like it needed a lot more time to play out.

Claiming a PR under pressure is bad town play. Softing a PR to scare people away from pressuring you is scummy play.

If Scorpius actually wanted to use his PR to catch scum in a trap, it would've been better to not say anything at all so that scum could feel confident in actually voting him. As it is now, there's nothing we can analyze about his wagon. So instead we have to figure out if he just misplayed his PR, used his PR to avoid dealing with suspicion, or faked a PR soft to stop his wagon from forming.

[Gamma Emerald]

When you've got 10 days, you may as well think of everything you can.

Gamma and Dwlee have both felt very much in the background this game. The latter hasn't done much but vote the only two players less active than they are.

Anyways gotta drive.

Sorry about this btw
I’m kiiiinda checked out mentally

[Crescent]

It's not that they're defending themselves it's the way they are defending themselves.

I'm actually gonna have to agree with this. My least favorite part of scorpius' reaction was the cryptic statements that served as a confusing softclaim or a herring distraction. As well as the flat out refusal to engage Titus. The only reason I can fathom just refusing something like that, is if you didn't want to risk slipping up any more.

I feel like he barely even engaged with me. As soon as it became clear I wasn't backing off, he did.

It's been nagging at me.

[Crescent]

Also Rodan yes I know.

I can't give long replies at work but I know.

[FugitiveMoose]

So I have been looking at scropius two main comments of discussion. The trick comment and the watch out scum. The trick comment is just being overly looked at. Those type of comments get made all the time. However tied in with the watch scum, feels a lot like a ... "You're be sorry if you eliminate me" style post. Normally, a newer player making those comments would lean heavy towards a scum sign. Scorpius is not a new player.. I'm mixed.

[Crescent]

The first time I ever came under pressure as a town power role, that's exactly what I did. As someone said, I was the "obvious doctor" before I ever claimed.

I actually think it's worse from an experienced player.

[FugitiveMoose]

Unfortunately, we'll get a WIFOM on day two as why he is still alive, if he is.

[Roden]

But the intent is to stop town from voting him.

Basically this, but he won't admit he did this and is now pretending he never tried to soft anything and that I'm role fishing for pointing it out. Interestingly enough, he isn't accusing anyone else of doing the same thing even though multiple people have pointed it out as well.

@Scorpius:

Scum aren't stupid, they know that you softed a PR regardless of whether or not anyone points it out. So you need to explain why you tried to take it back afterwards.

[Crescent]

You're specifically the only person who asked him to claim, so I get that much.

Though yes, him refusing to admit it is odd.

[ItalianoVD]

I'm gonna be catching up section by section and I know I'm gonna be behind and all that good stuff lol, but bear with me. Obviously some of these thoughts are more than likely gonna change as I progress through and my questions get answered.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Scorpious
Scum

Assuming this is a serious vote. Not from this per se, but we'll revisit in a bit.

VOTE: Scorpious
Scum

Excellent deduction..

VOTE: Scorpious

Total scum.

This kinda pinged me here because I've seen scum do this. I've done it myself. Not sure how to really put it into words, but I'll give you what was going on in my head when I did it as wolf/scum. It's meant to be a joke, like "yeah sure let's vote me because clearly doing that is ridiculous, I'll vote myself to prove it", but in reality it's a self conscious action because I knew I was a wolf and subconsciously was voting out of guilt. Someone picked up on it and the village eventually voted me out the 1st day and I spent the entire day defending myself and trying to get everyone to understand that the action wasn't all that serious.

VOTE: geraintm
long time no see

Null. More than likely RVS.

Self-vote scummy

VOTE: Scorpious

The first serious vote, I'd assume.

VOTE: Scorpious
Scum

Excellent deduction..

VOTE: Scorpious

Total scum.

VOTE: scorpius

Looks like normal geraintm who generally votes on wagons Day 1 regardless. Not ai.

Uncle Vanya,
Is this your first game or are you an alt?

Not sure what this has to do with anything here because having experience or not doesn't take away from the reason Vanya voted Scorpious.

VOTE: Scorpious
Scum

Excellent deduction..

VOTE: Scorpious

Total scum.

VOTE: scorpius

Very interesting you’d put someone at 4 votes so early. RVS or not..

UNVOTE:

Scum points for this. Scorpious voted himself and then shades geraintm for voting here when this is what he does.

Spoiler:

I wish I actually got anything about your alignment from this little stint

And here is where we revisit dwlee's vote who by this comment made me think his scorpious vote was serious.

I wish I actually got anything about your alignment from this little stint

Eh, it’s page 1.

You’ll find me for real scummy for

something

soon enough.

I don't think Scorpious and dwlee are the same alignment here.

VOTE: Scorpious
Scum

Excellent deduction..

VOTE: Scorpious

Total scum.

VOTE: scorpius

Very interesting you’d put someone at 4 votes so early. RVS or not..

UNVOTE:

Been weirder if I broke a habit of a lifetime

Yeah this. However, geraintm bringing it up could be wifom. Being self-aware of this fact, he could hide behind it as scum. I'm not ready to go there just yet though.

VOTE: Uncle Vanya

Guessing RVS? Maybe serious? *shrug*

VOTE: Uncle Vanya

Nice..

Love the creativity..

???

Spoiler:

VOTE: Scorpious
Scum

Excellent deduction..

VOTE: Scorpious

Total scum.

VOTE: scorpius

Very interesting you’d put someone at 4 votes so early. RVS or not..

UNVOTE:

Interesting yes, but scummy?
It takes 7 to eliminate, I seriously doubt anyone would have the intention to flashwagon
If anything, why would scum place their vote on you there? It looks bad from the instant pile up without much chance for the wagon to actually go anywhere considering it’s page 1

My thoughts exactly, although I don't really agree that it's interesting.

Scorpious generally reads stilted and I can't say I like it
Feels overly self-conscious which ig townies can be but scum engage in it plenty
However I like this set of interactions so I dunno:

VOTE: gamma emerald

long time no see to you!

scorpius instawagon is funny

Not really.. lol

I have an awful sense of humor. I just liked the bit, take what you can get :p

Stick with me . I’m a 6 but I’m funny

I'm a simple woman, make me laugh and I'll hop in your pocket.

24 and 26 especially feel +town respectively for Scorpious and Carcalilly

Ehhh, these are pretty null for me.

VOTE: Uncle Vanya

Nice..

Love the creativity..

I'm saving it for later.

Don't really understand this interaction.

I wish I actually got anything about your alignment from this little stint

Townie vibes here, hints of sorting

Okay I guess I can see that.

@meuh

So...I have a way if random voting in every single game I play. Scorpious wanted me to break that pattern because they didn't want to go to 4 votes so quickly, but I ain't breaking my method for them. You can call it shutting down the conversation, but my last game had scorpious in it and they know elegantly what I was going to do

I pointed this out already, but the act is nai. That's not to say that scum!geraintm knowing this, could have put town!scorpious closer to elimination.

Spoiler:

VOTE: gamma emerald

long time no see to you!

scorpius instawagon is funny

Not really.. lol

Third or fourth vote here has fairly high scum equity. First vote less so.

Also... I'm a kitty. Meow.

If town!scorpious then sure, if it's scum!scorpious then not so much.

@Scorpious, any thoughts on how your quick wagon developed? I just wanted to see if any of them gave you a certain vibe.

It didn’t hurt that I self voted.

Far be it from me to say if any of those would have stuck. I get zero vibes either way.

Really? You couldv'e fooled me.

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Again I disagree. Not sure if you are/were townreading Scorpious at this point, but to me, this reads like a possible pocket attempt if Scorpious is town.

@meuh

So...I have a way if random voting in every single game I play. Scorpious wanted me to break that pattern because they didn't want to go to 4 votes so quickly, but I ain't breaking my method for them. You can call it shutting down the conversation, but my last game had scorpious in it and they know elegantly what I was going to do

You seem overly worried about how you look.

VOTE: Meuh

Get plays like this all the time. Hard to find it AI, especially so early.. He has… quirks..

So then why did you post 13?

[ItalianoVD]

Spoiler:

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Elaborate?

The first post is generally NAI, unless it's a new player or on a new player. The self-vote is NAI at least to me because I don't know the player.

Vanya snap-voting for the self-vote has some scum equity, but also makes sense from a town dicking around since there does tend to be a joking stigma against self-votes.. The 4th vote took time and has thought behind it because it quoted a post, but also didn't say anything in the process.

If any vote is a "scum hop on" vote, it's likely that fourth one.

I agree that the actual action of self-voting is nai, but self voting in and of itself is anti-town. I think Vanya's reason for voting Scorpious is pretty decent. If Scorpious is scum do you still think that 4th vote is scummy? Do you townlean Scorpious?

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Honestly, geraintm and unclevanya are easily tied for that title. I'd be down to nuke the scorpious wagon for one of those. I'll even flip a coin.

pedit well you took the words right outta my mouth lmfao

This gives me scum vibes regardless of Scorpious' alignment.

Spoiler:

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Vanya's vote looks worse to me; sure it's earlier but it actually has some merit as an attempt to push the wagon forward
geraintm's isolated vote that doesn't seem to be made as such an attempt looks better to me.
though I think geraintm is scummier than Vanya?
I think the vote post itself looks worse for Vanya but further posts from geraintm muddies their alignment

I don't see it. Like I get what you mean, but I can see that push coming from town who actually believes the self-vote was coming from scum.

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Vanya's vote looks worse to me; sure it's earlier but it actually has some merit as an attempt to push the wagon forward
geraintm's isolated vote that doesn't seem to be made as such an attempt looks better to me.
though I think geraintm is scummier than Vanya?
I think the vote post itself looks worse for Vanya but further posts from geraintm muddies their alignment

How is mine even bad. Self-voting is always anti-town.

I kinda agree here. Maybe not always, but by a very large degree.

@meuh

So...I have a way if random voting in every single game I play.

Scorpious wanted me to break that pattern because they didn't want to go to 4 votes so quickly

, but I ain't breaking my method for them. You can call it shutting down the conversation, but my last game had scorpious in it and they know elegantly what I was going to do

Why is this the conclusion you drew from Scorpious' posting?
Walk me through your thought process on Scorpious please, I wanna understand it

This is a fair question.

Statements like this concern me.

Why.

Because it seems like

they are

basing

their

actions based on a certain player reaction.

Are you talking about Vanya here or Scorpious? The pronoun use is confusing me here?

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Elaborate?

The first post is generally NAI, unless it's a new player or on a new player. The self-vote is NAI at least to me because I don't know the player.

Vanya snap-voting for the self-vote has some scum equity, but also makes sense from a town dicking around since there does tend to be a joking stigma against self-votes.. The 4th vote took time and has thought behind it because it quoted a post, but also didn't say anything in the process.

If any vote is a "scum hop on" vote, it's likely that fourth one.

…I’m leaning town on you rn, tho I think you’ll spew your alignment down the road

Hmm.

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Vanya's vote looks worse to me; sure it's earlier but it actually has some merit as an attempt to push the wagon forward
geraintm's isolated vote that doesn't seem to be made as such an attempt looks better to me.
though I think geraintm is scummier than Vanya?
I think the vote post itself looks worse for Vanya but further posts from geraintm muddies their alignment

How is mine even bad. Self-voting is always anti-town.

anti-town ≠ making someone scum

also there's merit in self-voting in some situations, even if not too common. Plus it's not like Scorpious was in danger of being limmed here

this being the explanation for your vote makes it look worse to me...
if the immediate reaction from you seeing anything anti-town is "hey, this player should get wagoned" and not "is this being done by scum or by a townie?" I'm not so sure I trust your intentions

I agree with the difference between anti-town and being scummy or scum, but again I guess I can see Vanya's push coming from a town mindset.

I think Meuh towntells here and here and I think Crescent towntells here

[ItalianoVD]

Also I know I said Carca was scum pinging me but 93 and 99 are pinging me in the opposite direction. Like I can feel the townie frustration/concern in the tone of the posts. It doesn't feel like an agenda is being pushed.

[Crescent]

My points on those votes were irrespective of Scorpious' alignment. Scum can do a "hop on vote" on other scum in that situation, too, and then use that vote for leverage later in the game. It's a really easy way to place a vote you can just ride on for a while.

I've never really town leaned Scorpious, but I hold by my town lean on Vanya. His train of thought is crude but feels genuine.

Don't trust gera at all though and consider him a good potential vote.

Also now that you've been useful UNVOTE: AndresReplacementPerson

[ItalianoVD]

I do find it interesting that there's a bit of dogpiling on Vanya right now but not much follow up with actual votes. After a quick skim, I only see two votes there.

I guess this is fair given the previous reads there.

VOTE: Vanya

I was considering my options.

I never like prompted votes and yes I do think it comes from scum more often than not. Also I don't remember there being other options to consider.

Will probably end up back on MonkeyMan unless something else happens.

like idgaf about vanya its just the irony that pains me

This may be a goodplace to look back to on a later day to get a better scope of the players who are speaking now once we have some flips later on.

this is the only hope i have for it honestly. First day wagons are supposed to be reachy anyway ig.

Again, I'm starting to a feel a little different based on the tones of the posts.

Why does it bother you so much?

its like hearing a faint alarm bell but not knowing where tf its coming from. I mean, yeah im probably overreacting. maybe projecting cuz scum me would hop in on an comfy echo chamber like this in an instant. idk man.

Hmm. Self-meta? I can dig it, but that last "idk man" has me pinging agan. Like everything else would have been fine except for that last little part.

[ItalianoVD]

Why does it bother you so much?

its like hearing a faint alarm bell but not knowing where tf its coming from. I mean, yeah im probably overreacting. maybe projecting cuz scum me would hop in on an comfy echo chamber like this in an instant. idk man.

Alright, makes sense. I was expecting a more LAMIST response, so I'm leaning town for you now.

Why were you expecting a LAMIST response? Were you scumreading those previous posts Carca made?

Okay let’s get it.

VOTE: Dwlee99

Bad vote

VOTE: Andres

I don't remember you being so reactionary when getting voted. I played with you a couple times iirc as my alt.

Spoiler:

Question of the day, if a player makes a vote but no one takes it serious. Did that person really make a vote?

Hello, everyone. This is my first game on this forum.

This is prob scum

Let's say hypothetically that Koba put a vigilante into the game despite hating vigilantes

And let's say hypothetically I was said vigilante

I would hypothetically shoot fugitivemoose

VOTE: moose

I think Moose is probably town here. That post doesn't even sound scummy to me.

[Dwlee99]

There's a newb tell specifically about how they entered the game

[ItalianoVD]

Spoiler:

It depends on the kind of player he is. Some players stubbornly cling to their meta and don't really care about anyone challenging it. In the most recent game I hosted, two town players had roles that conflicted with each other night 1, and one of them spent the entire game, which ended day 5, calling the other scum because he was seeing things too much in "black and white".

MM's post is very on point though about the "opportunistic scum" angle that I pointed out could be in play earlier... I didn't elaborate, and he did, and I like that from him.

Is this about me?
I am only stunningly clinging onto my method of random voting

I've never played a game on this forum before. It was just a very recent example that came to mind of stubbornness that happened to come from a town player and could've resulted in a throw.

Tangential but I don't want to swallow thoughts this early and make it a habit.

Question of the day, if a player makes a vote but no one takes it serious. Did that person really make a vote?

Hello, everyone. This is my first game on this forum.

You waited 5 years?
Have you played elsewhere over that time?

I like these posts

Really? I think Crescent has had better posts than that one and you townread Scorpious post? If anything it's null.

[ItalianoVD]

scorpious and crescent seem town rn

Why?

Gotta show your work.

I feel like this could be a scum post. Again, could be.

Taking advantage of getting town leaned to call out the leaner for reasons why..

I can easily see the tactic being used, it’s a very town question to ask, but the timing could indicate alignment.


I’m just talking my thoughts, nothing substantial..

Don't remember you being so full of "thoughts" on our last Day 1.

Question of the day, if a player makes a vote but no one takes it serious. Did that person really make a vote?

Hello, everyone. This is my first game on this forum.

You waited 5 years?
Have you played elsewhere over that time?

I like these posts

This one in particular seems NAI to me, what about it?

it seems like a fairly critical response

And that can't come from scum?

If fugitive moose did anything following that post he'd be less scummy

But you immediately voted him for that post so I kinda doubt it.

I can’t wait to see how Vanya reacts to the wagon on them.

Homie you aren't even voting there

And why would I have to be voting there?

This.

[Gamma Emerald]

Question of the day, if a player makes a vote but no one takes it serious. Did that person really make a vote?

Hello, everyone. This is my first game on this forum.

You waited 5 years?
Have you played elsewhere over that time?

I like these posts

This one in particular seems NAI to me, what about it?

it seems like a fairly critical response

And that can't come from scum?

Nah but I just said I liked it
If someone just has content that I like but doesn’t feel really incisive I’ll eventually start wanting more out of them

[Scorpious]

I agree with the many that have said it.

I’ve been clumsy, Major real life stuff going on, not bad, just… distracting.

So, yes I soft claimed. I have no good reason why I denied it.

[ItalianoVD]

I feel like Vanya is trying to lurk out the pressure on him, but with 24 hour prod timers it'll be a bit difficult.

Hmm that could be the case, I suppose.
I think with the way Vanya responded to pressure, they could be wanting to avoid attention on them and just let momentum dissipate.
(bless the 24 hour prod timers )

however, I don't know if this is an assumption to make just based on someone just not posting for a while.
i like to assume scum are actually yknow, trying to play the game?
losing to lurkscum sounds lame
maybe i have too much faith though, it's a fairly common tactic isn't it?

One of the worst feelings is losing to a scum team that didn't do anything while town cannibalized themself all game

It is a pretty common tactic to just lurk out early pressure, but tbh it almost always works. I almost never see initial wagons stick unless that player reacts really really badly.

Seems kinda early to be going here with it no? Meuh summed it up pretty well.

UV is probably just scum and avoiding confrontation.

Why are you saying the same thing Roden said?

Titus has been prodded as well as her 128 is not game advancing content

Oh damn, I kinda like this

Though NM is screwed if he replaces in at some point lmao

This is weird, why would you have an opinion on a mod message? Are you happy Titus’ content didn’t count for some reason? Does the rule excite you?

And why envoke NM? I don’t get it. This prompted me to look at your iso and there isn’t much there.

This feels kinda clunky here.

UNVOTE:

hmm

Geraintm does make you go hmm. I'd like to hear more when you're ready to talk about it.

[ItalianoVD]

Ehh potential mindmeld in 176

177 - Ooh spicy. What is your true read on Carcalilly?

I don't know, just reading Scorpious' posts feel so different from last game and very similar to another scumgame I've played with them. 178and 179 in particular just feel strange.

VOTE: Vanya
Consolidating but moose still kinda sus

Is he though? You seem to just be keeping your options open.

I've explained all of those posts as I made them except for the mod one, but even that one should be obvious. I don't see the point of questioning me on why I like the idea of short prod timers after I just said how scum lurking out pressure is usually an effective strategy.

Roden town?

OMGUS much?

We caught scum guys.

Could dwlee and MonkeyMan be potential partners? They are individually scummy to me and have not interacted.

I feel like there is scum somewhere in dwlee, MonkeyMan, and Scorpious?