UK Eastermeet 2022 Invitational (Game over!)

[cpol]

Well it confirms that the potato vendor is scum, and in that case, why did they save Cpol?

Surely you can't have expected a town potato vendor to suddenly come forward now, can you?

My money right now is on a CES/Primate scum paring. My thought process, going from “reasonable” to “wild” in my levels of speculation:

The amount of lurking primate has done the last two days is worse than anyone else’s in my opinion. I think they are flying under the radar due to the pro-town looking consul play D1, but other than that have not contributed anything that I consider particularly town looking.

Primate completely sat on the fence D2 around the Menno waggon and had to be pushed to commit to the vote. This feels like scum hedging their bets and hoping the town commits the miss-execution and generally trying to push the vote whilst giving themselves enough distance from it.

Primates other posting has been consistently, albeit vaguely positive towards CES without backing them up with anything concrete.

In post #286 for example Primate states that they don’t agree with me on Postie, despite me having backtracked my comments and changed my point of view by that point. He could have gone with “I now agree with cpol” instead of wanting to actively disagree. The choice of the negative slant feels more scummy than town.

I should stop pulling the poro read out of my ass and actually solidify it. Klick's been a bit scummy too.

This still hasn’t happened. Poro is a good person to default on a scum I think. Same with Wenna at this point, who CES seems to be pushing for. Klick at the time was a popular scum read who it was easy to throw some shade on to, even though this has since been proven to be incorrect.

Both Primate and CES have avoided clearly answering direct questions today (in my opinion). Primate never answered why they aren’t engaged with the game, CES whether they thought Primates level of play was acceptable. When asked about each other, each time the reads are vague.

...And now wilder stuff…

CES as the Consulmaker chose Primate and Menno to allow their scum buddy to chuck a nomination down early, hoping that the somewhat of a wildcard Menno would hammer. A pre-planned play, which could have been signalled by CES as well. CES votes for Bella in #18, Primate quickly nominates afterwards in #19. There is even this comment which I find a little fishy.

In terms of PrimBella, I think Primate has to have relatively specific beliefs as to how likely Menno is to act impulsively to rule out the move as scum but for it to feel reasonable as town. Personally, I think the more compelling argument against it is that I'm not sure scumPrim would choose to put the pressure on a scum buddy in that way.

An finally… If I had to guess I’d say that Primate is the potato vender, as the flavour kind of fits - “mandarin covered in Sellotape”, could be a replacement scum potato!

VOTE: Primate

[Primate]

Who is Bernhard Piemann?

Bernhard Riemann in the name game became Piemann.

re: ces and candles. It's possible, but that would mean out of the mechanics we've got, consuls, candles, potatoes, are all scum influenced. Which could be true, but I feel it's less likely. There's not much meaning to be got out of the massclaim tbh except for the fact it basically confirms postie.

@Cpol: Ridiculous case. Cut out the stuff that doesn't make sense and I'll respond to it.

[Primate]

Primate never answered why they aren’t engaged with the game

To address this though. It's a bullshit question and I hope you don't seriously think I would respond.

[cpol]

Others have when asked? Or at least I've seen Menno explained the hammer by saying they were zooted, Nexus saying they aren't that invested because they are a VT, Poro saying that they weren't bothered by D1 because of the Consul/potato stuff and Wenna saying that they aren't super sure what to do in forum mafia. So I can't see why a similar level of explanation could be asked of you. Everyone there has been willing to put some kind of justification in.

[Fenchurch]

Surely you can't have expected a town potato vendor to suddenly come forward now, can you?

Why not? I would. If you're town, then it was perfectly reasonable to protect you.

Further, it's generally bad play for town to lie about their role because it makes it harder for us to figure out whether scum are sitting in the VTs or the power claims.

If we believe CES and Postie's claims, then the set up would look something like:

Town

Mayor
Bluffing vig
Blackmailing inventormaker
Inventor
Consul-maker
Non-ambulating Jailkeeper
VT
VT
VT
VT

Scum

Potato vendor
Something to do with candles?
?

I am inclined to believe Postie's claim as town, but the Consul-maker I could still see as town or scum.

If you think the potato vendor is scum (which you seem to, with your accusation of Primate) can you explain why they protected you?

[Fenchurch]

My current guess for scum team is Wenna, Porochaz, and one of Cpol or CES.

[cpol]

If you think the potato vendor is scum (which you seem to, with your accusation of Primate) can you explain why they protected you?

Only by going back over ground that's been talked about ad infinitum at this point. Does it help anything? At it's simplest it adds confusion in to the game and lets us waste our time debating whether it was a scummy move or not, rather than actually scum hunting.

[cpol]

And my actual point was, why would they only have come forwards at this time when we are mass claiming instead of earlier in the game when it would have helped explain what had happened and removed some confusion?

[Fenchurch]

I was willing to let it lie on D2 because I felt there was a reasonable chance the town potato vendor didn't want to claim at that point (for example, perhaps like CES not wanting to confirm that he was a 'defunct' role). Now that it's definitely a scum potato vendor, it makes me more strongly consider whether the whole thing was a scum gambit on your part that didn't play out how you had intended. So if you have a different perspective that would be helpful to hear.

[cpol]

OK, I can follow that train of thought. I just don't think I'd be able to add anything more than what's already been said. It's a difficult justification, the play seems to have been to go for a miss-execution another day rather than take the kill there and then.

The other option is that something else happened to give me a potato, maybe an invention from Klick? Or the whole potato thing was a skit by George due to his hatred of the mechanic F2f? But just like your previous question, it's speculative.

All I can say is that we are here, potentially needing to hit scum to keep the game going, and we're still talking about it, which isn't good. I'll ask what I asked last time, other than this, do you think I've played scummy? I can at least defend that.

[Primate]

Others have when asked? Or at least I've seen Menno explained the hammer by saying they were zooted, Nexus saying they aren't that invested because they are a VT, Poro saying that they weren't bothered by D1 because of the Consul/potato stuff and Wenna saying that they aren't super sure what to do in forum mafia. So I can't see why a similar level of explanation could be asked of you. Everyone there has been willing to put some kind of justification in.

Not posting is not posting. What's the point making an excuse, the reason's the same, there were other things you enjoyed doing more (or needed to do more) than playing forum mafia in this specific game at that time.

The potato gambit is plausible but I don't really get how you'd know and I think it devolves into wifom (which if it is a gambit may have been the point).

My current guess for scum team is Wenna, Porochaz, and one of Cpol or CES.

ehhh.

Does Fenchurch/Wenna makes sense?

[Postie]

Surely you can't have expected a town potato vendor to suddenly come forward now, can you?

An finally… If I had to guess I’d say that Primate is the potato vender, as the flavour kind of fits - “mandarin covered in Sellotape”, could be a replacement scum potato!

?

There's not much meaning to be got out of the massclaim tbh except for the fact it basically confirms postie.

??

[Primate]

There's not much meaning to be got out of the massclaim tbh except for the fact it basically confirms postie.

??

No need to thank me, you're welcome.

[Postie]

I can't follow your train of thought at all, but uh, I guess if someone has an undisclosed protective role they should be on me tonight.

I don't like how many null or scum reads I have atm so ISO time.

[Postie]

Okay Primate help me out

My townreads atm are Menno and Fenchurch.

Poro is scummy.

Don't like the poro/ces grouping.

@Primate

- who's your biggest scumread? Why aren't you voting anyone?

Don't know, and I'm bad at mafia. Probably Poro or Menno.

Have any of these reads changed
Why or why not
(Excluding Menno obviously)
Do you have an explanation on your Poro read? Or at least posts you didn't like you can link?

Are you up for a mass claim

Yep. I actively think we should do it.

What was your thinking here?

[Porochaz]

My current guess for scum team is Wenna, Porochaz, and one of Cpol or CES.

So this seems like you've kinda flipped your reads on their head, and I'd appreciate some explanation?

[Porochaz]

So Fen, how have your reads changed since Menno flipped town?

I guess this ties into the previous question. Considering you were certain Menno was scum. Im looking at how your perspective has changed now that he's flipped town.

I guess considering your lines of questioning and your lack of posting about me and wenna, Im surprised that you picked out the two of us as your scum team, especially with no other reasoning. So basically case pls?

Bernhard Piemann, came from me (I think) misreading Bernhard Riemann in the Name Game, hence he became Bernhard Piemann throughout the game. I think it was a George name that went into the bowl. At least George didn't make me Loose Woman Carol McGiffin.

[Wenna]

If you think the potato vendor is scum (which you seem to, with your accusation of Primate) can you explain why they protected you?

Only by going back over ground that's been talked about ad infinitum at this point. Does it help anything? At it's simplest it adds confusion in to the game and lets us waste our time debating whether it was a scummy move or not, rather than actually scum hunting.

Agreed, I have been saying this all along.

If it was a badguy-vendor provided potato:

1. It throws cpol under the bus
2. Everyone talks about potatoes until the end of time.

Now that it's definitely a scum potato vendor, it makes me more strongly consider whether the whole thing was a scum gambit on your part that didn't play out how you had intended. So if you have a different perspective that would be helpful to hear.

So this seems like you've kinda flipped your reads on their head, and I'd appreciate some explanation?

Agreed.

I am still very suspicious of Fenchurch.

[Fenchurch]

Nexus - what is it that makes you unvote? The claim is believable, but surely Consul-maker fits just as easily as a scum role.

Nexus

- still interested in your answer to this question.

do you think I've played scummy? I can at least defend that.

If I judge you based purely on play I think you're town, but overall my judgement is on everything, mechanics included. Sorry if there's not much you can do that.

Based on play I have Cpol, Postie and CES as town. Nexus and Poro and Primate as null. Wenna as scummy. But it'd be rare if all the players I think are scummy are actually scum, and mechanics makes me feel that it might be one of Cpol or CES from the 'top'.

So this seems like you've kinda flipped your reads on their head, and I'd appreciate some explanation?

Not sure they're flipped on their head. I guess something in the claims has put Nexus a bit higher for me and you a bit lower, but there's not a lot in it. Nexus just feels very lurky and I could buy him playing this way as town or scum.

Wenna was null, and I had been giving her a lot of benefit of the doubt because of how she said the transition to forum mafia has been a tricky. But now she's shared more of her thoughts I just think... there are so many things in there that don't seem to make any sense. For instance...

Overall: odd little teaming up/facing off between the three of you.

This is after I've spent half Day 2 disagreeing with Postie about Cpol being more likely scum or town, and the other half saying that I agree with everything that CES is saying.

And if we're at the point in the game where 3 out of 7 players are scum, then it just seems most likely that Wenna is.

[Fenchurch]

Can you give examples of Fenchurch twisting? Preferably the A to B to C type of twisting.

This (?)

Thanks Postie for asking that question and Cpol for answering... I didn't realise until now that I had been bothered by the same contradiction.

I felt like the questions lead to answers Fenchurch knew all along, and wanted to draw from the others. By stating half ideas and then asking leading questions. I imagined Fenchurch having more fully formed thoughts and steering people. It was the Postie/Fenchurch in the beginning that triggered this viewpoint.

But then if I imagine Fenchurch saying this IRL, it seems much more ordinary: gives idea, pushes for your idea [repeat].

Here Wenna finally gets to something specific about me and... I just don't even understand what about it makes me scum. What half-idea did I state, what leading question?

I

had

been bothered about Cpol giving the potato away, because I don't think it makes any sense to do as town when under so little pressure. Postie being bothered about it too made me feel good about them. Cpol's answer was better than I expected, and made me feel good about him. I said all this at the time. I didn't make Postie to ask the question, I just commented on it.

[Nexus]

vote CES

The setup spec around the claims makes me think consul-maker is prob scum. It also makes sense given that CES was the only real counterwagon to the VT elimination yesterday.

[cpol]

Surely you can't have expected a town potato vendor to suddenly come forward now, can you?

An finally… If I had to guess I’d say that Primate is the potato vender, as the flavour kind of fits - “mandarin covered in Sellotape”, could be a replacement scum potato!

?

I'm implying that I could see Primate is a scum potato vender, very loosely based off flavour.

[cpol]

Others have when asked? Or at least I've seen Menno explained the hammer by saying they were zooted, Nexus saying they aren't that invested because they are a VT, Poro saying that they weren't bothered by D1 because of the Consul/potato stuff and Wenna saying that they aren't super sure what to do in forum mafia. So I can't see why a similar level of explanation could be asked of you. Everyone there has been willing to put some kind of justification in.

Not posting is not posting. What's the point making an excuse, the reason's the same, there were other things you enjoyed doing more (or needed to do more) than playing forum mafia in this specific game at that time.

So am I right in assuming that you just had a general apathy towards the game? And as a 'town' player, you were either happy with the direction that the game was taking, or simply not following it?

[Postie]

I'm implying that I could see Primate is a scum potato vender, very loosely based off flavour.

I'm just confused how you went from calling the potato vendor town to calling it scum in the same post
Are you saying you potentially see it as both? Schroedinger's potato vendor?

[Postie]

I keep thinking the extra potato is maybe just some inventor thing I should try to ignore and then cpol comes out with their weirdest shit about it