Newbie 2093 | New Wave | Postgame
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catboi
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catboi Jack of All Trades catboi
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BigTerp
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BigTerp HeGoon BigTerp He
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And to expand on Furtive's appearance just to "check in", which I do not believe they've done EVER in the two games I've played with them, it would be glaringly obvious to town!Furtive that Val was scum. I'm of the belief that Furtive was well aware of the vote count. If Furtive is town they immediately know that Val is scum and drop the hammer. If Furtive is scum, they have 2 choices. Come in and hammer their partner to create distance between the two, or come in and play ignorant of the vote count to buy some extra time. Either way town!Furtive, from my limited experience, is very thorough with their thoughts, reads, posts, etc. To come on, check-in and then use the excuse of not knowing the vote count is very unlike their typical play style.
Also, here 783 instead of coming in to say they need to catch up and will be back on later, Furtive catches up first, then posts. Interesting. Going back through Furtive's ISO, not once did they come on to announce that they needed to catch up. There were several instances of many (40+) posts from others between Furtive's post, but they didn't see the need to announce they were "checking in" before getting caught up. Granted, the one in question there were over 100 posts in between, but the point still stands.
Now, while going through Furtive's ISO I noticed that during day 3 they had hardly any solid reads/feels on who was town and who was scum, minus reading Mala as scum, who conveniently was also being pushed by Val. What's even more interesting is how Furtive keeps mentioning how we should follow Aspho/Daniels lead, because they are confirmed town. But once Daniel subbed in and started fingering Val, Furtive didn't follow. Furtive suggested here807 and here783 that we let Aspho decide the vote, even suggesting that we treat it as a "day vig shot". Aspho was fingering myself and Mala. Once Daniel subbed in and starting fingering Val, not another word from Furtive about following the confirmed town's lead. In fact, there is evidence that Furtive was quietly defending Val up until Daniel hard scum read them. Furtive, why didn't you follow Daniel's read/lead like you said everyone should be doing? Daniel was much more confident in their read(s) than Aspho as well, which further illustrates you were deliberately ignoring them. Highly suspicious.-
BigTerp
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BigTerp HeGoon BigTerp He
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furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades furtiveglance He/Him
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My post was literally a prod dodger because it had been a while, I was in a hurry to get somewhere. Even if you thought that was BS for whatever reason - due to me seeming like a good player (thanks) - if I had looked at the vote count, I would have hammered. If I was scum, if I had looked at the vote count, I would have hammered. The fact that a conftown is on a player and no hammer from other players means they're outted mafia. Do you think that I wouldn't realise this, or realise it but still try to cling on as scum? If I'm scum there and I look at the votes, I'll happily hammer for some towncred. I really don't get your argument here at all. As for the bolded, I'm just really hoping you're not town, because if you are you're telling me that bussing never crossed your mindIn post 1048, BigTerp wrote:
I'm calling BS on this one. You seem like a good player at this game who is typically in tune with what is going on and wouldn't just come on to check in without being aware of the vote count. Again, I don't expect anyone to blindly follow the conformed town vote, ESPECIALLY at ELO when the game is on the line. I've already explained, several times, whyI think Mala's vote on Val shows that they are much less likely the scum partner than yourself. Keep planting those seeds of doubt though.even in a situation in which your partner is doomed?-
BigTerp
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BigTerp HeGoon BigTerp He
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I don't take too much credence in the abdbla wagon day 2. They were already a target from day 1 and Aspho's accidental hammer on Take day 1 helped scum setup an easy miselim on abdbla day 2. Abdbla was all but done day one. The one thing I will point out is how Furtive has made it known, several times, that I was on that wagon (even though I wasn't) and had been pushing for abdbla (which I was). The former (me not being on the wagon at the end) is just another example of Furtive not being aware of the current situation, which is highly unlike the town!Furtive I've previously played with.In post 1042, Malakittens wrote:Spoiler: Day 1
Spoiler: Day 2
This is what scares me. Would Val really out his last scum partner like this. Earlier in Day 2 it was actually started by town, but then gradually went off and those two who had started it then left and then rejoined towards the end of D2. During Day 1; both BigT & FG was on it, but then BigT did jump off.In post 972, Val89 wrote: Abdbla, same goes for you. I know you were mislimmed, but it's clear scum was responsible for starting that wagon rolling now, and I was on it because as I said at the time, I didn't believe you could have beenthatgood, but it turns out you were. You can consider that one a badge of honor.-
BigTerp
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BigTerp HeGoon BigTerp He
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Agreed. Although I don't really know what to make of Val's list minute posts one way or the other.In post 1043, Malakittens wrote:there's just a bunch of last minute posts by Val that just give me pause, but tbh FG doing almost nothing today and tunneling on me just solidifies him being scum.
Curious if he does do a "wall list" unless thats just another stall tactic
tbh my mind is p set, but if he's town he's not showing it to me tbh-
furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades furtiveglance He/Him
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I am considering you town all the time. How do I feel icky?In post 1047, Malakittens wrote:part of me just doesn't want to effort anymore and vote FG because the more that I'm looking at this posts the more i'm nervous that i'm wrong, but i really feel like I'm right aboout FG!scum.
just cuz this play right now feeels icky-
furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades furtiveglance He/Him
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Can you quote some posts in which I said we shouldn't vote with the confirmed? Or was I just not there? I'm starting you think you weren't there yesterday.....In post 1051, BigTerp wrote:
Now, while going through Furtive's ISO I noticed that during day 3 they had hardly any solid reads/feels on who was town and who was scum, minus reading Mala as scum, who conveniently was also being pushed by Val. What's even more interesting is how Furtive keeps mentioning how we should follow Aspho/Daniels lead, because they are confirmed town. But once Daniel subbed in and started fingering Val, Furtive didn't follow. Furtive suggested here807 and here783 that we let Aspho decide the vote, even suggesting that we treat it as a "day vig shot". Aspho was fingering myself and Mala. Once Daniel subbed in and starting fingering Val, not another word from Furtive about following the confirmed town's lead. In fact, there is evidence that Furtive was quietly defending Val up until Daniel hard scum read them. Furtive, why didn't you follow Daniel's read/lead like you said everyone should be doing? Daniel was much more confident in their read(s) than Aspho as well, which further illustrates you were deliberately ignoring them. Highly suspicious.-
BigTerp
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BigTerp HeGoon BigTerp He
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Exactly my point. You've never felt the need to come in and check-in nor prod dodge. Plus, you were 6+ hours away from a prod. You're not convincing me that you truly missed the vote count. I'm not buying it.In post 1053, furtiveglance wrote:
My post was literally a prod dodger because it had been a while, I was in a hurry to get somewhere. Even if you thought that was BS for whatever reason - due to me seeming like a good player (thanks) - if I had looked at the vote count, I would have hammered. If I was scum, if I had looked at the vote count, I would have hammered. The fact that a conftown is on a player and no hammer from other players means they're outted mafia. Do you think that I wouldn't realise this, or realise it but still try to cling on as scum? If I'm scum there and I look at the votes, I'll happily hammer for some towncred. I really don't get your argument here at all. As for the bolded, I'm just really hoping you're not town, because if you are you're telling me that bussing never crossed your mindIn post 1048, BigTerp wrote:
I'm calling BS on this one. You seem like a good player at this game who is typically in tune with what is going on and wouldn't just come on to check in without being aware of the vote count. Again, I don't expect anyone to blindly follow the conformed town vote, ESPECIALLY at ELO when the game is on the line. I've already explained, several times, whyI think Mala's vote on Val shows that they are much less likely the scum partner than yourself. Keep planting those seeds of doubt though.even in a situation in which your partner is doomed?
I've already explained your last bolded point. Yes, I do believe bussing is a possibility in the situation we were in. But not the way it happened. If Mala was scum they had a MUCH better chance of convincing me to vote you instead of you voting me and certainly instead of me voting Val. That's obvious. So why start the train on their partner? I could see scum!Mala hoping on the wagon when they felt there was no other choice, but they didn't once try to convince me to vote Furtive.-
BigTerp
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BigTerp HeGoon BigTerp He
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No, I can't. I never said that you said we shouldn't. It's the fact that you stopped suggesting we should!!!In post 1057, furtiveglance wrote:
Can you quote some posts in which I said we shouldn't vote with the confirmed? Or was I just not there? I'm starting you think you weren't there yesterday.....In post 1051, BigTerp wrote:
Now, while going through Furtive's ISO I noticed that during day 3 they had hardly any solid reads/feels on who was town and who was scum, minus reading Mala as scum, who conveniently was also being pushed by Val. What's even more interesting is how Furtive keeps mentioning how we should follow Aspho/Daniels lead, because they are confirmed town. But once Daniel subbed in and started fingering Val, Furtive didn't follow. Furtive suggested here807 and here783 that we let Aspho decide the vote, even suggesting that we treat it as a "day vig shot". Aspho was fingering myself and Mala. Once Daniel subbed in and starting fingering Val, not another word from Furtive about following the confirmed town's lead. In fact, there is evidence that Furtive was quietly defending Val up until Daniel hard scum read them. Furtive, why didn't you follow Daniel's read/lead like you said everyone should be doing? Daniel was much more confident in their read(s) than Aspho as well, which further illustrates you were deliberately ignoring them. Highly suspicious.-
Malakittens
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Malakittens Survivor Malakittens
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you have been calling me scum the whole time, please tell me how you have an open mindset and showing me you think i could be townIn post 1056, furtiveglance wrote:
I am considering you town all the time. How do I feel icky?In post 1047, Malakittens wrote:part of me just doesn't want to effort anymore and vote FG because the more that I'm looking at this posts the more i'm nervous that i'm wrong, but i really feel like I'm right aboout FG!scum.
just cuz this play right now feeels ickyNo matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.
Get to know a Mala~Grey<3 4.7.2015-
Malakittens
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Malakittens Survivor Malakittens
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In post 1012, furtiveglance wrote:
This is definitely a big reason for me thinking it's you, but it's probably not the biggest reason for me.In post 1003, Malakittens wrote:Ngl: VC even points slighty to you. My vote on you and you not be hammered also makes me think its you, but then again Val & BigT were never on at the same time.
I'm trying to see town!Mala townreading scum all game and voting them at Elo, but it's quite difficult.
The most likely explanation to me is open pairing all game followed by bussing when neither me or Terp was looking likely to be the elim.
Can you explain your thought process regarding Val throughout the game?In post 1006, furtiveglance wrote:TistDaniel also thought you were town. I know he saw BigTerp/Val. Similarly to you, I never saw why he townread you.In post 997, furtiveglance wrote:Malakittens shall we talk until BigTerp gets here?
I think it's you at the moment.No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.
Get to know a Mala~Grey<3 4.7.2015-
BigTerp
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BigTerp HeGoon BigTerp He
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You're ignoring my question though. Why didn't you follow Daniel's lead, like you suggested we all should, when they started hard fingering Val? You were pretty adamant that we do that with Aspho. What changed when Daniel subbed in? Only thing I see is the reads.In post 1057, furtiveglance wrote:
Can you quote some posts in which I said we shouldn't vote with the confirmed? Or was I just not there? I'm starting you think you weren't there yesterday.....In post 1051, BigTerp wrote:
Now, while going through Furtive's ISO I noticed that during day 3 they had hardly any solid reads/feels on who was town and who was scum, minus reading Mala as scum, who conveniently was also being pushed by Val. What's even more interesting is how Furtive keeps mentioning how we should follow Aspho/Daniels lead, because they are confirmed town. But once Daniel subbed in and started fingering Val, Furtive didn't follow. Furtive suggested here807 and here783 that we let Aspho decide the vote, even suggesting that we treat it as a "day vig shot". Aspho was fingering myself and Mala. Once Daniel subbed in and starting fingering Val, not another word from Furtive about following the confirmed town's lead. In fact, there is evidence that Furtive was quietly defending Val up until Daniel hard scum read them. Furtive, why didn't you follow Daniel's read/lead like you said everyone should be doing? Daniel was much more confident in their read(s) than Aspho as well, which further illustrates you were deliberately ignoring them. Highly suspicious.-
furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades furtiveglance He/Him
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Are you forgetting that they voted me twice yesterday before voting Val?In post 1058, BigTerp wrote:
Exactly my point. You've never felt the need to come in and check-in nor prod dodge. Plus, you were 6+ hours away from a prod. You're not convincing me that you truly missed the vote count. I'm not buying it.In post 1053, furtiveglance wrote:
My post was literally a prod dodger because it had been a while, I was in a hurry to get somewhere. Even if you thought that was BS for whatever reason - due to me seeming like a good player (thanks) - if I had looked at the vote count, I would have hammered. If I was scum, if I had looked at the vote count, I would have hammered. The fact that a conftown is on a player and no hammer from other players means they're outted mafia. Do you think that I wouldn't realise this, or realise it but still try to cling on as scum? If I'm scum there and I look at the votes, I'll happily hammer for some towncred. I really don't get your argument here at all. As for the bolded, I'm just really hoping you're not town, because if you are you're telling me that bussing never crossed your mindIn post 1048, BigTerp wrote:
I'm calling BS on this one. You seem like a good player at this game who is typically in tune with what is going on and wouldn't just come on to check in without being aware of the vote count. Again, I don't expect anyone to blindly follow the conformed town vote, ESPECIALLY at ELO when the game is on the line. I've already explained, several times, whyI think Mala's vote on Val shows that they are much less likely the scum partner than yourself. Keep planting those seeds of doubt though.even in a situation in which your partner is doomed?
I've already explained your last bolded point. Yes, I do believe bussing is a possibility in the situation we were in. But not the way it happened. If Mala was scum they had a MUCH better chance of convincing me to vote you instead of you voting me and certainly instead of me voting Val. That's obvious. So why start the train on their partner? I could see scum!Mala hoping on the wagon when they felt there was no other choice, but they didn't once try to convince me to vote Furtive.-
furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades furtiveglance He/Him
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BECAUSE I WAS NOT ONLINE.In post 1059, BigTerp wrote:
No, I can't. I never said that you said we shouldn't. It's the fact that you stopped suggesting we should!!!In post 1057, furtiveglance wrote:
Can you quote some posts in which I said we shouldn't vote with the confirmed? Or was I just not there? I'm starting you think you weren't there yesterday.....In post 1051, BigTerp wrote:
Now, while going through Furtive's ISO I noticed that during day 3 they had hardly any solid reads/feels on who was town and who was scum, minus reading Mala as scum, who conveniently was also being pushed by Val. What's even more interesting is how Furtive keeps mentioning how we should follow Aspho/Daniels lead, because they are confirmed town. But once Daniel subbed in and started fingering Val, Furtive didn't follow. Furtive suggested here807 and here783 that we let Aspho decide the vote, even suggesting that we treat it as a "day vig shot". Aspho was fingering myself and Mala. Once Daniel subbed in and starting fingering Val, not another word from Furtive about following the confirmed town's lead. In fact, there is evidence that Furtive was quietly defending Val up until Daniel hard scum read them. Furtive, why didn't you follow Daniel's read/lead like you said everyone should be doing? Daniel was much more confident in their read(s) than Aspho as well, which further illustrates you were deliberately ignoring them. Highly suspicious.-
furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades furtiveglance He/Him
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856 and 857 are my last game related posts on Day 3.In post 1062, BigTerp wrote:
You're ignoring my question though. Why didn't you follow Daniel's lead, like you suggested we all should, when they started hard fingering Val? You were pretty adamant that we do that with Aspho. What changed when Daniel subbed in? Only thing I see is the reads.In post 1057, furtiveglance wrote:
Can you quote some posts in which I said we shouldn't vote with the confirmed? Or was I just not there? I'm starting you think you weren't there yesterday.....In post 1051, BigTerp wrote:
Now, while going through Furtive's ISO I noticed that during day 3 they had hardly any solid reads/feels on who was town and who was scum, minus reading Mala as scum, who conveniently was also being pushed by Val. What's even more interesting is how Furtive keeps mentioning how we should follow Aspho/Daniels lead, because they are confirmed town. But once Daniel subbed in and started fingering Val, Furtive didn't follow. Furtive suggested here807 and here783 that we let Aspho decide the vote, even suggesting that we treat it as a "day vig shot". Aspho was fingering myself and Mala. Once Daniel subbed in and starting fingering Val, not another word from Furtive about following the confirmed town's lead. In fact, there is evidence that Furtive was quietly defending Val up until Daniel hard scum read them. Furtive, why didn't you follow Daniel's read/lead like you said everyone should be doing? Daniel was much more confident in their read(s) than Aspho as well, which further illustrates you were deliberately ignoring them. Highly suspicious.-
furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades furtiveglance He/Him
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I have sorted as you as scum most of the game yes. But everything needs to be re-evaluated now, which is what I'm doing.In post 1060, Malakittens wrote:
you have been calling me scum the whole time, please tell me how you have an open mindset and showing me you think i could be townIn post 1056, furtiveglance wrote:
I am considering you town all the time. How do I feel icky?In post 1047, Malakittens wrote:part of me just doesn't want to effort anymore and vote FG because the more that I'm looking at this posts the more i'm nervous that i'm wrong, but i really feel like I'm right aboout FG!scum.
just cuz this play right now feeels icky-
BigTerp
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BigTerp HeGoon BigTerp He
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No, I'm not. It's been my argument as to why a Val/BigTerp solve should be off the table. Also, Mala didn't push you very hard at all. It wouldn't have taken much to get me to vote with them considering how much of a town read I had on Val and how against a Val elim I was. So, again, scum!Mala makes no sense to me here.In post 1063, furtiveglance wrote:
Are you forgetting that they voted me twice yesterday before voting Val?In post 1058, BigTerp wrote:
Exactly my point. You've never felt the need to come in and check-in nor prod dodge. Plus, you were 6+ hours away from a prod. You're not convincing me that you truly missed the vote count. I'm not buying it.In post 1053, furtiveglance wrote:
My post was literally a prod dodger because it had been a while, I was in a hurry to get somewhere. Even if you thought that was BS for whatever reason - due to me seeming like a good player (thanks) - if I had looked at the vote count, I would have hammered. If I was scum, if I had looked at the vote count, I would have hammered. The fact that a conftown is on a player and no hammer from other players means they're outted mafia. Do you think that I wouldn't realise this, or realise it but still try to cling on as scum? If I'm scum there and I look at the votes, I'll happily hammer for some towncred. I really don't get your argument here at all. As for the bolded, I'm just really hoping you're not town, because if you are you're telling me that bussing never crossed your mindIn post 1048, BigTerp wrote:
I'm calling BS on this one. You seem like a good player at this game who is typically in tune with what is going on and wouldn't just come on to check in without being aware of the vote count. Again, I don't expect anyone to blindly follow the conformed town vote, ESPECIALLY at ELO when the game is on the line. I've already explained, several times, whyI think Mala's vote on Val shows that they are much less likely the scum partner than yourself. Keep planting those seeds of doubt though.even in a situation in which your partner is doomed?
I've already explained your last bolded point. Yes, I do believe bussing is a possibility in the situation we were in. But not the way it happened. If Mala was scum they had a MUCH better chance of convincing me to vote you instead of you voting me and certainly instead of me voting Val. That's obvious. So why start the train on their partner? I could see scum!Mala hoping on the wagon when they felt there was no other choice, but they didn't once try to convince me to vote Furtive.-
furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades furtiveglance He/Him
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BigTerp
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BigTerp HeGoon BigTerp He
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You were around, or at least posted after these 849, 853 and 867. They all confirm Daniel's read on Val as scum. Did you miss these also, just like the vote count at the end of day 3? That's gotta be the only reason you didn't follow your read, right? You did say thatIn post 1064, furtiveglance wrote:
BECAUSE I WAS NOT ONLINE.In post 1059, BigTerp wrote:
No, I can't. I never said that you said we shouldn't. It's the fact that you stopped suggesting we should!!!In post 1057, furtiveglance wrote:
Can you quote some posts in which I said we shouldn't vote with the confirmed? Or was I just not there? I'm starting you think you weren't there yesterday.....In post 1051, BigTerp wrote:
Now, while going through Furtive's ISO I noticed that during day 3 they had hardly any solid reads/feels on who was town and who was scum, minus reading Mala as scum, who conveniently was also being pushed by Val. What's even more interesting is how Furtive keeps mentioning how we should follow Aspho/Daniels lead, because they are confirmed town. But once Daniel subbed in and started fingering Val, Furtive didn't follow. Furtive suggested here807 and here783 that we let Aspho decide the vote, even suggesting that we treat it as a "day vig shot". Aspho was fingering myself and Mala. Once Daniel subbed in and starting fingering Val, not another word from Furtive about following the confirmed town's lead. In fact, there is evidence that Furtive was quietly defending Val up until Daniel hard scum read them. Furtive, why didn't you follow Daniel's read/lead like you said everyone should be doing? Daniel was much more confident in their read(s) than Aspho as well, which further illustrates you were deliberately ignoring them. Highly suspicious."But it's basic strategy to vote with the confirmed player at Elo, so as soon as TistDaniel called the scumread on Val, he was a goner."So again, I don't understand why you didn't follow the confirmed town's read, like you say we all should do.-
BigTerp
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BigTerp HeGoon BigTerp He
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If Mala is scum, they vote you and work the miselim. Like I've already said, it would be an easier route to a mafia win. I don't see scum dropping the vote and just leaving it there to see what happens. I really think Mala was working the "If Furtive isn't hammered they are scum" angle. Once that didn't happen, Mala realized Val was the scum partner, followed Daniel's lead and allowed you to come in and expose yourself as the teammate. Actually, pretty well played by Mala there.In post 1068, furtiveglance wrote:Malakittens voted me at Elo twice. You're saying they didn't push me very hard. I don't understand.-
BigTerp
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BigTerp HeGoon BigTerp He
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Malakittens
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Malakittens Survivor Malakittens
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I vibe with thisIn post 1071, BigTerp wrote:I cannot come up with any (within reason) scenario where Mala is scum over Furtive here, and nothing that Furtive is presenting is changing my mind.
VOTE: Furtiveglance
@FG: any update on those thoughts?No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.
Get to know a Mala~Grey<3 4.7.2015-
furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades furtiveglance He/Him
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It was Terp the whole time.........*Owen Wilson wow*.
I don't envy your position Malakittens. I have POV knowledge that it's him, but I will try to show you why.
Terp had Val null in 236, then later called Val town agreeing with Corn, subtlely giving him towncred.
Terp also shadowed my push on abdbla all game, openly townread Val and pushed against TistDaniel wanting to vote him yesterday.
Today he's made some bizarre leaps of logic and was pretty clearly eager to vote early on - it's different to how he played previously this game.
You can also clearly see in his early posting that he's appealing to you - he knows you're town.
I know you'll be thinking about the 4 hour window but it's just lucky they weren't on at the same time.-
furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades furtiveglance He/Him
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8683
- Joined: January 29, 2022
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UK
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