Mewbie 2094 -- GAME OVER

[syugar]

I've been thinking about my conversation with catboi today, and I think he is just town here.

Ya

[syugar]

I think this is another phase where I will be the only wagon for an absurdly long time and the game will stall out. I don't mind the extra time but am kind of obligated to wonder who should know better.

shrog, I thought Luke made okay points and I'm now not understanding ur read on Luke any why u ever thought his wagon was good yesterday

[syugar]

also this time pretty much nothing else is distracting me from staying on u and not wagon hopping unless theres a pretty good case instead of ppl wanting to extinguish their PoEs in slightly different order

i misreaded tidus bad, but was unavoidable for me i thnk

[syugar]

partner, da foq? uhhh ...

[syugar]

I think this is another phase where I will be the only wagon for an absurdly long time and the game will stall out. I don't mind the extra time but am kind of obligated to wonder who should know better.

shrog, I thought Luke made okay points and I'm now not understanding ur read on Luke any why u ever thought his wagon was good yesterday

BTW Wtf this comment literally makes no sense we have no LHF this time

[Takemikazuchi02]

I'm concerned by what you're doing here this game. In the game I modded you had a lot of passion in how you were trying to scumhunt and I admired that, and this game this game you feel distant and I haven't really seen you attempt to find mafia. I felt badly about how you got treated by the SE's in that game (they were far too condescending, imo), so I wanted to give you space, but we're in day 2 and I'm not really seeing a lot in the way of analysis from you still. You're being very passive. What's going on?

I said this before, this game is very unique with all the replacements and I'm not able to get good reads on people because of the lack of information which is I why i'm pro mass claim, it would give us enough infor to progress the game.

[the worst]

Luke definitely makes good points abt me yeah. I am simply not scum.

[Takemikazuchi02]

So far they have voiced a scum read on gm, and that was it.

And you. You've been playing in a very safe and non-commital way and you've only voted on the easy miselim Tidus which is why I voted for you day 1.

[syugar]

Luke definitely makes good points abt me yeah. I am simply not scum.

so what was the exact reason u said his wagon was good yesterday

[Malakittens]

Goodmorning has been prodded.

[Cat.Jpeg]

Votecount 2.03

Goodmorning: (3) catboi, the worst, Takemikazuchi02
The worst: (2) goodmorning, bellaphant, syugar

Not Voting (2): cat.jpeg, Lukewarm

With 8 alive it takes 5 to Eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-05-19 08:00:00)

Not to jump the gun but right now I feel like the people voting for either the worst or GM aren't scumbuddies with who they are voting for because is they were they could very easily make the vote 2 to 4 without looking sus. I honestly have no idea who their partners might be among the remaining people though. I dont think they are paired with each other because even though in this situation they would be trying to distance themselves as much as possible so the other one would get towncred if one flipped red but even at the start of the game Ash and GM didn't seem paired. Right now I feel like GM is the best vote but im hesitant to put them at E-1.

[the worst]

Luke definitely makes good points abt me yeah. I am simply not scum.

so what was the exact reason u said his wagon was good yesterday

I thought they was kinda lacklustre and could handle sweating more but I've kinda changed my mind

[catboi]

UNVOTE:

I don't think wagon composition reads are particularly valid in games of this size (works slightly better in larger games) but I probably want to think my vote through a bit more

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Cat.jpg

If gm is maf then Luke is his partner. If the worst is maf then catboi is.

[Lukewarm]

@Cat.jpg

If gm is maf then Luke is his partner. If the worst is maf then catboi is.

This feels like you pulled names out of a hat. What makes you say I would be partnered with gm, and what makes you say catboi would be partnered with the worst?

And what makes you say that other people couldn't be?

I know I'm never partnered with gm, but I also don't see catboi+the worst. Not with the way that the worst tried to pivot us off of tidus and on to catboi at the end of the day. The way he mirrored my own argument meant that from his pov, i would have been likely to follow him.

Me and the worst both shifting from tidus->catboi would have done major damage to the tidus wagon, and gm was scum reading catboi as well. That move could have promptly made catboi a leading wagon near the end of the day.

[Lukewarm]

I am back to thinking that we should do the popcorn mass claim.

I don't like that literally everyone has seen or talked about a pr soft from the worst, but he completely ignored it, and is not even committed to not claiming a VT later down the line if he is scum.

I think that the best way to run it would be for an utr to pick the first person to claim. They should not claim a role, just "im a pr" or "im a vt" And then that person picks the next person to popcorn.

We should not actually claim what the roles are (unless we get too many pr claims), so that if we have an invest and a protective, the protective knows where to protect, but the scum won't know which is which and could still miss their next shot

[Lukewarm]

I think that Bella is the most town read slot, so maybe they would pick who to start us off?

[Takemikazuchi02]

I know I'm never partnered with gm, but I also don't see catboi+the worst. Not with the way that the worst tried to pivot us off of tidus and on to catboi at the end of the day. The way he mirrored my own argument meant that from his pov, i would have been likely to follow him.

Me and the worst both shifting from tidus->catboi would have done major damage to the tidus wagon, and gm was scum reading catboi as well. That move could have promptly made catboi a leading wagon near the end of the day.

Once Tidus claimed he was guaranteed to be eliminated. Catboi was in no danger of being wagon'd one day before the day ends.

[Takemikazuchi02]

100% agreed on the mass claim though. We don't have as much information as I would like and mass claiming is the best solution to that problem.

[Lukewarm]

You said why you disagree with me thinking they are not partnered, but you didn't answer why you think that they are partnered.

[Lukewarm]

This feels like you pulled names out of a hat. What makes you say I would be partnered with gm, and what makes you say catboi would be partnered with the worst?

And what makes you say that other people couldn't be?

[Takemikazuchi02]

After rereading ISOs what I said doesn't make as much sense as I thought.
This game is too hard. Everytime I try to solve it my brain fries.

[goodmorning]

I understand where catboi is coming from already even if it's a very misguided place.

Also, I thought I was your top scumread yesterday given you did nothing but votepark me yesterday? And I haven't even explained my vote?

I took it as read that your D1 feelings carried over, since you didn't add any new reasoning. Is that not accurate?

RE: voteparking on you: I had no reads stronger than my read on you; my read on you was a fairly strong toneread, but tone reads are relatively weak. When I went back and ignored the tone things I didn't like, I felt like you were largely coming from a (very foreign to me) Town perspective rather than a Scum one. You're definitely not my strongest townread still - I kind of expect to see stronger alignment-related opinions from you (though this game has definitely been... not good for that) - but you are a townread.

I understand where catboi is coming from already even if it's a very misguided place.

Also, I thought I was your top scumread yesterday given you did nothing but votepark me yesterday? And I haven't even explained my vote?

this really concerned me as well. the "oh I reread catboi and other than tone all of his content seems fine~!!" isn't really consistent with a read re-evaluation from someone who voteparked you for the entirety of d1.

294 and 381. Literally the only thing I changed my mind about was my opinion in 381.

Not many teams make sense anymore and I don't have any clue what to do

All voters list viable worlds for who they are voting

worst has been flipping wildly through votes as though flinging things to the wall to see what might stick and has not necessarily looked genuine on some of them. Ash didn't look great either, including starting off with a justification as to why her posts might look different. I have more words than this but these should suffice to answer your question in brief.

I should say, for the record - I don't agree with anyone scumreading the "softclaim", because I didn't think it was a softclaim.

I think the only other thing for me to address is @Luke:
1. You clearly haven't been actually reading my posts if you're bringing "lies and slander" back up again.
2. What makes you think those were "busywork" questions instead of, I don't know, actual questions?
3. You wouldn't have noticed that over my "last couple games", since it's usually something I do when I get behind/replace in to games. My last game i was one of the more prolific posters, and the games before that were when I was in the process of site flaking 6 years ago and did not give a single shit about staying informed.

Anyway, more reads stuff later when I can be bothered but suffice it to say catboi may actually be Town. When I reread the game just for content and not tone, there was nothing in his posts to dislike. Also I figured out what I didn't like about Cat using the same words as me - mirroring can be used to buddy (& is the most common method of irl buddying, intentional and otherwise). Whether that means anything here is still undecided.

Wow, there are exactly 0 scummy things about my wagon. Completely normal and very cool, nothing suspect whatsoever.

This game has been so exhausting and unfun. Frankly I'm just about ready to die.

VOTE: worst

I still think T02 is Town and I understand where catboi is coming from already even if it's a very misguided place. worst's hop onto my wagon is l a z y in a way that feels like a scumclaim.

But, y'know, go ahead and run me up, it'll be a great time.

And good morning, why are you calling the wagon scummy, but only calling 1 person suspicious for it?

And why are you only evaluating the people who actively voted, and not the other people who scum read you?

Like, I was the one who said we should elim you, but I'm not on your list of people you needed to sort whether I was scum angling for your miselim?

I think Bella also scum reads you (not gonna double check this at the moment)

When a wagon springs from 0 to E-2 in one page, it's slightly more often than average Scum-involved. In that case, you look at the voters. I have townreads on both catboi and T02; I don't have one on worst, and worst's vote was also the worst vote.

RE: you: I didn't like your entry read on me, but sometimes people have difficulty catching up on a full game and improve on context once they're actually participating.

RE: Bella: we seem to be just missing each other in this game. I'm feeling a lot more confident in her being Town since the start of D2, and I also think we're starting to reach more points of agreement.

I think you may have missed saying something you meant to say in the above post, or did you accidentally quote 686 there?

I'm also holistically concerned that GM's entire read trajectory this phase is "my wagon is suspicious, let's vote the lowest hanging fruit from it" but that's hardly ground breaking.

This phase has been going on for 4-5 pages which were mostly arguing about massclaiming and I have two posts (this is #3). What trajectory are you looking for with that kind of sample size?

--

Why is everyone doing associatives before flips? With 8 alive?? Seriously. Stop it, get some help.

[Bellaphant]

I've been thinking about my conversation with catboi today, and I think he is just town here.

Ya

...yeah, partners is so not our problem right now.im no good at numbers, is it worth just no liming? The mass claim push feels a bit scum driven.

[Lukewarm]

...yeah, partners is so not our problem right now.im no good at numbers, is it worth just no liming?

Just because you don't understand something does not make it scum driven.

I already linked to a game where town!lld lead the day 2 mass claim, and town!catboi was in that game and agreed. I can link another game where I was town and advocated for us to day a day 2 mass claim.

You are also calling catboi town in this very post, and he was the one who suggested the mass claim to begin with...

Doing the mass claim gives us info, when we are feeling lost. It also makes it harder for scum to fake claim, because they have to already decide if they are fake claiming, and how is fake claiming.

By doing the pr/vt claim (and not the role), it also makes it scary for the scum, because if there are 3 pr claims, they don't know which pr they even need to fake claim to make sense with the townies. If they end up claiming something that can never go with either of the other prs, then they are immediately outed. And even if it does match with one of the townie, scum fake claiming at this stage means that that scum does not make it to ELO. Because we kill the scummiest of the two players who are claimed roles that cannot coexist. If it kills scum, great. If it kills town, then we have manufactured a guilty on that other player.

It gives us actionable info now, and it limits scum's movements going forward.