Mewbie 2094 -- GAME OVER

[Malakittens]

Votecount 3.01

Not Voting (7): cat.jpeg, goodmorning, bellaphant, syugar, Lukewarm, catboi, Takemikazuchi02

With 7 alive it takes 4 to Eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2022-05-27 07:32:00)

[Lukewarm]

And then, yeah. I pivoted into "why is To2 making a bad argument here?"

I remembered you scum reading goodmorning yesterDay, and suddenly you are making a bad argument that results in you "confident" that goodmorning it town.

Yes. Yes. I know you walked that back saying that GM could be scum, but the inverse of you saying that you were confident in both scum being in the list of 4 you presented is that you are confident that the other players are town.

If you are scum with either goodmorning or cat.jpeg, you absolutely need us to not start killing in the order Goodmorning->you->cat.jpeg (which is where I literally am with my reads) and it looked like you were trying to stop that course of action.

So yes, I can see the motivation behind the bad argument.

[Takemikazuchi02]

My argument isn't bad. In the absence of other proof, voting data is one of the best tools we have to find scum.

but the inverse of you saying that you were confident in both scum being in the list of 4 you presented is that you are confident that the other players are town.

You're completely wrong. If you're not scumreading someone that doesn't mean you're townreading them. This feels really manipulative.

If you are scum with either goodmorning or cat.jpeg, you absolutely need us to not start killing in the order Goodmorning->you->cat.jpeg (which is where I literally am with my reads) and it looked like you were trying to stop that course of action.

Why are saying this as if it was a done deal that gm was getting elim'd today and that I'd be the one to follow?

VOTE: Lukewarm I think you're setting things up for your partner counterclaiming me.

[Lukewarm]

My argument isn't bad. In the absence of other proof, voting data is one of the best tools we have to find scum.

I never said that looking at voting data is bad. I said that looking at the votes this game, and concluding that both scum have to be in the people who were on both wagons were bad.

You're completely wrong. If you're not scumreading someone that doesn't mean you're townreading them. This feels really manipulative.

You didn't say that. you said you were "confident both mafs are among those 4."

Not that you were suspicious of them. Not that you think that there is at least 1 scum is there. That you are confident that BOTH mafs are among those 4. And now you are arguing that that is not what you believe, while also defending the statement simultaneously.

So, do you think that both mafia are in that 4 or do you think that GM should be in consideration for elimination right now?

(if you are considering GM here, doesn't that inherently make your earlier post flawed/wrong?)

It really looks like you are actively trying to insure that we don't vote Goodmorning, while avoiding committing to a Goodmorning town read.


-----

Like, what did you expect your earlier post to do? Did you expect us to ignore it? Or were you advocating that we should be killing one of the 4 people you named? Were you just making a post to look like you were doing something?

Like, from my pov, it sure looked like you were angling for us to kill one of those 4 people - should I not then look at who that could be shielding? Should I not be suspicious to see you go from voting GM yesterday, to angling us away from them without even committing to calling them town here?

[catboi]

I think at least T02's play this game makes significantly more sense in light of the claim. I need to look at the game again with fresh eyes, hopefully cat.jpeg shows up sonish so we can have some clarity.

[Lukewarm]

@Cat.jpg

If gm is maf then Luke is his partner. If the worst is maf then catboi is.

After rereading ISOs what I said doesn't make as much sense as I thought.
This game is too hard. Everytime I try to solve it my brain fries.

And it looks exactly like what you did yesterday, which was make a claim, and the moment I try to dig into your logic and reads, you immediately walk the claim back.

"Why are these people paired?" -- "Nevermind"

"Why are you excluding Goodmorning from your scum pile?" -- "I'm not doing that"

---

It sure looks like you are just making statements to look like you are trying to solve the game, but you don't actually believe the things that you are saying

[Lukewarm]

I think at least T02's play this game makes significantly more sense in light of the claim. I need to look at the game again with fresh eyes, hopefully cat.jpeg shows up sonish so we can have some clarity.

In what way?

He presumably had more information then the rest of us day2, but I don't see any sign of that from the way he played

[catboi]

My argument isn't bad. In the absence of other proof, voting data is one of the best tools we have to find scum.

but the inverse of you saying that you were confident in both scum being in the list of 4 you presented is that you are confident that the other players are town.

You're completely wrong. If you're not scumreading someone that doesn't mean you're townreading them. This feels really manipulative.

If you are scum with either goodmorning or cat.jpeg, you absolutely need us to not start killing in the order Goodmorning->you->cat.jpeg (which is where I literally am with my reads) and it looked like you were trying to stop that course of action.

Why are saying this as if it was a done deal that gm was getting elim'd today and that I'd be the one to follow?

VOTE: Lukewarm I think you're setting things up for your partner counterclaiming me.

I would urge you to not play too reactively around the idea that someone is likely to scum for scumreading you - maybe he's scum but people can misread you as town as well and I think the idea he's setting up to have a counter claim to you is very much jumping to a conclusion prematurely. Don't be hasty. You have to take your ego out of it, and speaking from experience this is a very hard thing to do.


I'd also quibble with your point on voting data, although doing so would require digging for evidence and might be a little beyond the scope of this game. I'd certainly quibble with the point that mafia by necessity have to be among the voters on both mis-elims.

[catboi]

I think at least T02's play this game makes significantly more sense in light of the claim. I need to look at the game again with fresh eyes, hopefully cat.jpeg shows up sonish so we can have some clarity.

In what way?

He presumably had more information then the rest of us day2, but I don't see any sign of that from the way he played

I mean if he was a PR intentionally muting his play to avoid being nightkilled, it makes sense why I thought he was acting strangely.

[catboi]

@Cat.jpg

If gm is maf then Luke is his partner. If the worst is maf then catboi is.

After rereading ISOs what I said doesn't make as much sense as I thought.
This game is too hard. Everytime I try to solve it my brain fries.

And it looks exactly like what you did yesterday, which was make a claim, and the moment I try to dig into your logic and reads, you immediately walk the claim back.

"Why are these people paired?" -- "Nevermind"

"Why are you excluding Goodmorning from your scum pile?" -- "I'm not doing that"

---

It sure looks like you are just making statements to look like you are trying to solve the game, but you don't actually believe the things that you are saying

luke. unless take gets counterclaimed by exactly cat.jpeg, he's almost certainly town, because everyone else has claimed VT. You need to adjust your worldview.

[catboi]

My argument isn't bad. In the absence of other proof, voting data is one of the best tools we have to find scum.

but the inverse of you saying that you were confident in both scum being in the list of 4 you presented is that you are confident that the other players are town.

You're completely wrong. If you're not scumreading someone that doesn't mean you're townreading them. This feels really manipulative.

That's not a manipulative argument at all. Here are your own exact words:

While we're waiting for gm to answer, I'd like to point out that Bella, Syugar, Luke and Catboi all voted for tidus and worst and

I'm confident both mafs are among those 4

.

Your own words said you believe that "both mafia" are among that group of 4 people. logically, the only possible conclusion is that you believe the two players outside that group of 4 to be town.

[catboi]

Regarding vote count analysis, here's a vote count Lukewarm might recognize:

Spoiler:

Newbie 2061 - Day 1 Final Votecount

Votecount

NorwegianboyEE (5):

Pearofclubs, iN3krO, catboi, Meuh, T3

[HAMMER]

Meuh (1):

marcistar

catboi (1):

Not_Mafia

iN3krO (1):

NorwegianboyEE

Not Voting (1):

Samawoodo

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate a player.

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-04-18 06:00:00)

Majority has been reached and

NorwegianboyEE

has been eliminated! Their role was...

Vanilla Townie

Would you like to guess how many mafia were on that elimination?







the answer was none. marcistar and samawoodo were the mafia. town rushed through an elim late because I got fixated on a bad read. samawoodo got replaced, and the player who replaced him tried to use the argument that "sum had to be on the mis-elim wagon" to push town. Lukewarm replaced into that game in a town slot so he might be understandably wary of such arguments. I also wrongly tunneled him and he tunneled me back, and on the last day I had to scream my head off to not get him to misvote me, good times.

At any rate, this is at least one useful example that shows that relying on arbitrary assumptions about who is on/off wagon can bite you for finding scum. I can probably pull other examples. They're rare but they do happen.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Lukewarm

I prefer sharing what's on my mind instead of overthinking and if I'm wrong about something I'll change my mind.
The vote count analysis has been on my mind since the end of day 2 and I shared it as soon as I had the opportunity. I failed to mention gm because he wasn't on both wagons but he's far from being a townread for me.
I have decent information and we should be able to pinpoint who the maf are once the other pr claims and we share info.

[Lukewarm]

@Cat.jpg

If gm is maf then Luke is his partner. If the worst is maf then catboi is.

After rereading ISOs what I said doesn't make as much sense as I thought.
This game is too hard. Everytime I try to solve it my brain fries.

And it looks exactly like what you did yesterday, which was make a claim, and the moment I try to dig into your logic and reads, you immediately walk the claim back.

"Why are these people paired?" -- "Nevermind"

"Why are you excluding Goodmorning from your scum pile?" -- "I'm not doing that"

---

It sure looks like you are just making statements to look like you are trying to solve the game, but you don't actually believe the things that you are saying

luke. unless take gets counterclaimed by exactly cat.jpeg, he's almost certainly town, because everyone else has claimed VT. You need to adjust your worldview.

Oh.

I thought there were a couple more people who needed to claim still.

[Lukewarm]

g a townread for me.

When did you start townreading gm tho? Like, part of the reason your comment stood out to me is because I thought you were scum reading gm before that.

Even looking back, you voted gm day 2

[Lukewarm]

I think I should just wait for the cat.jpeg claim and for the role info to be outed before I try to solve any more

[catboi]

I have an idea of what might be going on but will wait to see.

[catboi]

times like this I wish the site had a feature to ping people in-thread

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Luke

Did you misread my post?

[Lukewarm]

I did.

I read that as "so far been " and not " far from being"

[Lukewarm]

my bad

[Lukewarm]

I have an idea of what might be going on but will wait to see.

I'm glad one of us does lol

[Cat.Jpeg]

hey im finally back. Sorry if some of u are already sleeping. Im a VT :). Basically T02 must be Jailkeeper to stop the kills.

[Cat.Jpeg]

Kinda sad we cant get any definite info from this but its also very fun. I think the fact that whoever you jailed both days was either mafia or the nk should be enough for us to figure it out.
Can i make a guess that at least one of the days Bella was jailed?

[Cat.Jpeg]

Nights*