Open 851: Would You Like To Be My Neighbor? | Game Over!

[Stranger]

Hiya.

[Stranger]

VOTE: The Bulge

Eeehhh...

I have small townreads on Deas and Vex, though they’re rooted in “glad to see things moving along a bit” mostly. The commentary about setup is dull and NAI, so that didn’t do anything.

The early portions of games are awful.

[Stranger]

thinking about it some more - dv/stranger - what are you seeing in bulge?

Everything I see this game I'm like " ah yes, the one with the serial killer"

Anyone have a clue why

huh?

My vote was for this. DV’s was the catalyst to go look at Bulge.

It’s not a lot (saying huh to something irrelevant would normally be nothing at all, frankly) but it’s something pressure-wise, when this game’s quiet.

[Stranger]

[Stranger]

any thoughts on mala so far?

Nothing, frankly. Why ask about her specifically?

[Stranger]

Yes.

[Stranger]

are you an alt?

Yes.

(Quoting for context of a random “yes” in my ISO for later. Bad habit of posting without quotes.)

[Stranger]

Votecount 1.2

The Bulge

(3): DeasVail, Stranger, Save The Dragons

Malakittens

(1): Bellaphant

DeasVail

(1): Vex Vience

Bellaphant

(1): MegAzumarill

Yeet

(1): Malakittens

Not Voting

(2): The Bulge, Yeet


With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline ends in: (expired on 2022-05-11 06:35:45).

i agree with others re: bulge but it's not really a strong read

VOTE: bulge

i agree with the reasoning given so far. i don't think bulge has done anything substantial, and i think something like this will bring the game out of barely any posting.

VOTE: Deasvail

Ehh... this feels notable.

The vote onto Bulge was an unstated E-1, though I

guess

it could be argued that Vex wanted that to see the reaction. As soon as it drops, Dragons immediately swings away from that thought -- the Bulge read, the pressure that his vote had -- and leaves it right where it was before.

My gut instinct was that it was towny to not call attention to the E-1 at all, because it feels easy to point out that someone casually voted someone to near-death and apply some easy pressure. Not taking that route felt like Dragons didn't want the credit for it. But... looking at it twice, given the read that came just before the lack of notice towards the E-1 feels... strange? Stranger, even, ha ha.

It just feels counterintuitive to undermine someone providing pressure, even if it's not a strong read. And if you wanted to do something meaningful with your vote, why not leave it where is, point out where we're at, see what happens?

The Deas vote doesn't do a lot for me because the reasoning feels open-ended and like it invites interpretation of what the performance is right now, but I think that could be corrected with follow up.

VOTE: Save the Dragons

[Stranger]

You unvoted someone who was put on E-1 after saying you agreed with the read on the person who was put on E-1 without mentioning it and moving somewhere with open-ended/vague reasons. The entire sequence feels off.

[Stranger]

@stranger - do you think std is more likely to flip scum than bulge then? and if so, what do you think of bulge?

Ehhh...

No, not really.

The thing is that, I pointed out this... divergence in what was being said/what was being done. And it's weird, to do something else, but what benefit would a scum Dragons actually get from unvoting there unless exactly paired with Bulge?

If Dragons is scum to Bulge's town, then... Dragons isn't potentially sitting on a wagon that could easily go through because why? Fear of being incriminated later by votes or because there's a partner already voting there? You have to get your hands dirty when you play scum and I don't know that anyone would even really see hands as dirty if Bulge flipped town. It's a read that's accepted and this game is slow; it goes through, well, we have something to go with, the votes are scrutinized a bit but it's not until down the line that it becomes a big issue. And in a small game I don't... really think it gets to that, nor do I think that there has to be 4D chess played when there are simpler alternatives.

The alternative is that scum Dragons just... forgot what he was saying and his views I guess, having the discrepancy and weak newer reasons, but in a game this slow that's not very likely at all.

If Bulge flipped scum I'd look at this case again with a lot more weight but... after letting it stew, it's gotten some attention and talk. Which is all I really can ask for.

(I read backwards and I'm replying now in order so if this is out of sorts, my bad. Time isn't very real.)

[Stranger]

I really like 79

Why?

also the assertion i havent provided game related content is absurd. i have asked more game-relevant questions than probably anyone. and nobody is trying to engage with me, on or off wagon. feels like my wagon is nothing more than a device for scum to get past a slow-moving D1.

Who do you think is taking advantage of your wagon? To me... the fact that people are voting you and saying things about you is a form of engaging, and is often easier to do than having conversation/question volleys.

And I think that the latter statement is something that you should be able to back up or expand upon, currently. Because it is quiet and I think (?) everyone has given some sort of thought about it that you can take a look at. It probably won't be strong but in a game that's quiet I think it could be easier for you, if you're town, to look at things that we can't see. Like having the perspective of "who is manipulating things versus who is trying to solve versus who is sitting back."

Were it a larger game I think this... loose finger point at the game as a whole would be more forgivable because there's a lot to work with. But here... I can't give that much of a pass.

i guess my problem is that i specifically said it wasn't a strong read, so you can see why i might not want to be at E-1 with someone so early in the game. with that knowledge, why leave my vote to see what happens when people lolhammer all the time

It was the sort of tiny little thing that had the potential to bloom into something bigger maybe.

I'm still most suspicious of Bulge, but I feel like I'm in "watch and wait" mode atm

these words just feel like writing fiction rather than actual stances, i don't know how to describe it, it just feels off from the DV i just played with but maybe i'm reading to hard into it

Do you think someone in this game would lolhammer. I guess, specifically with this table?

And sorry if you were... frustrated that I didn't interact with you/engage, because my little case was my engagement, or at least a way to begin it. It's easier to pounce onto something than it is to question for me, because if I ask questions and only questions when I see something like that I often find myself nodding and agreeing with whatever's said, even if it comes from scum.

As for your points against DV, the second one doesn't feel like a stance, frankly. If anything it's avoiding the caution to the wind approach of lolhammering and just... seeing how things play out. I don't think it's egregious. The first quote is more... abstract and words for the sake of it though. Did, in the last game, DV have takes/stances that were more concrete than that?

[Stranger]

UNVOTE:

Given the speed of the game I think my next vote will probably be one that I want to wagon to kill (duh). It's dumb to stress about over "oh God what if we don't get a wagon through because no one's around" but here I am.

[Stranger]

And sorry if you were... frustrated that I didn't interact with you/engage

not really

maybe it's just me but i'm having trouble reconciling your words with your vote on me

As for your points against DV, the second one doesn't feel like a stance, frankly. If anything it's avoiding the caution to the wind approach of lolhammering and just... seeing how things play out. I don't think it's egregious. The first quote is more... abstract and words for the sake of it though. Did, in the last game, DV have takes/stances that were more concrete than that?

i dunno it's hard to say, i'd say he was more direct

DV is a master of saying pretty things

it didn't feel like he was saying pretty things in the previous game i just played with him

it feels like he's just trying to say pretty things here

I... think that people often have that issue with me, frankly. I don't want to skulk around with claims made behind an alt but I don't think the way I think about things makes sense often with how I execute them.

And for example then, do you think post 100 has a lot of pretty things in it? To me it feels like a fairly straightforward explanation of DV's thoughts.

[Stranger]

stranger have you played with me before

Yes.

[Stranger]

VOTE: The Bulge

Sorry for the absence yesterday.

I don't have a lot to add currently; Bulge at this point seems defensive and bristling at Vex and Vex alone (with a smidge of StD), it feels disproportionate to the things being asked/said. That feels... vague to say or maybe unfair because this game right now feels very... directionless and Bulge probably doesn't feel like that, but I'm unsure how else to get a direction going. Claim, I guess?

Small note is that 152 feels a lot less... angered, irritated, than the replies to Vex. I don't know. Reconciliatory towards DV's question, on the offensive elsewhere and after.

[Stranger]

Brief check-in post.

Not much to go on. Titus, welcome, more depth when you can please at least on the Bulge read?

[Stranger]

VOTE: The Bulge

Sorry for the absence yesterday.

I don't have a lot to add currently; Bulge at this point seems defensive and bristling at Vex and Vex alone (with a smidge of StD), it feels disproportionate to the things being asked/said. That feels... vague to say or maybe unfair because this game right now feels very... directionless and Bulge probably doesn't feel like that, but I'm unsure how else to get a direction going. Claim, I guess?

Small note is that 152 feels a lot less... angered, irritated, than the replies to Vex. I don't know. Reconciliatory towards DV's question, on the offensive elsewhere and after.

idk what any of this means

This isn’t a condescending “really?” but more of a... really? With a squint.

In less words it’s just that you seem fixated most on Vex this game and going all in there with an aggression that doesn’t match what you’ve given to other people. And that FMPOV it didn’t seem to be an appropriate level of it, but... I realize we’re in different places in the game, so I’m unsure if it’s fair to really throw back your feelings at you as reasons you need to die but I don’t know what else to do.

[Stranger]

Question, Titus: In a game this slow, do you think everyone will have unique or personally found reasoning to suspect someone?

That’s a bit loaded maybe but, your reason for jumping on the Vex vote kind of... goes back and places a burden on Vex to reinvent the wheel of Bulge scumreads when I’m not sure what else you can expect? Is the reasoning that the Bulge wagon began initially something you take issue with, because if not... you’re disliking Vex’s play for things you’re holding them accountable for but not anyone else.

[Stranger]

Basically: what contribution passes the benchmark of useful, sincere, and most of all towny that you wouldn’t find bad from Vex?

[Stranger]

I have to go but I should be able to check in before deadline. I’ll hear out a case on someone else but for right now I don’t find the reasons to vote the alternative compelling.

[Stranger]

Mmm.

UNVOTE:

I share similar concerns over the sudden reappearance but get it. It sucks to be in a game like this under pressure and no one really does anything else.

To me, I find it very... confusing, why Vex goes to the lengths of this push as scum because it really isn’t necessary in this game. Maybe it’s a bit more needed now because there’s more defense on Bulge but... there’s a general sentiment of “eh sure why not” which means Vex could do a lot less and burn a lot less credit tomorrow on a town flip. It doesn’t feel necessary to

care

.

Similarly I think characterizing this as scum making noise, as Titus did, is... a weird way to characterize this game, because it’s not really noisy, it’s slow and apathetic.

[Stranger]

(with a smidge of StD),

whats this about

like "bulge is suspicious of and irritated by this one specific player...and is not acting suspicious or irritated towards this other player...and i think that is because ____________"

fill in the blanks pls

stranger are you townreading vex? if so why? do you think their push vs me comes from a townie mindset?

Going to squish these together. The StD thing was just where you I think (?) jested about StD role fishing but I put it as a smidge just in case.

And for me, feelings like irritation especially are very... all encompassing I guess? To me I don’t treat my townreads and scumreads differently if I am annoyed or frustrated and I don’t really zero in on just one so to see you do that to one person is unsettling, because I think you were really just... going all in on them from memory, and narrow focusing in a way I felt just didn’t make... a lot of sense to me.

I’ll reread when I’m home in a bit and see if I come to the same conclusions but Bulge, who do you think is with Vex?

[Stranger]

Also sorry if I’m reading your emotions wrong but it does come across as pretty miffed at times...

[Stranger]

The above is also a bit word soup-y I think because droning on about reading on feelings is a nebulous place in my head but as ever, can clarify, etc etc.

[Stranger]

Mmmm.

A lot of the pushback I have to voting Vex does come from it feeling like there was a certain standard Vex had to meet to vote you to begin with, and that adding nothing else is something that was necessary to pass the test. It feels like... one of those things where there aren’t any standards provided, so theoretically nothing would be good enough i.e Vex is scum for not doing enough on the wagon.

I do get the sentiment though, scum bandwagoning on and riding it as it goes though. I just kind of wonder if (not wonder, know) everyone here knows that midway point is often a good place for scum to rest and are pressuring down because of that being an easier sell than the people who started the wagon before.

[Stranger]

Okay I really should focus on other stuff until I can reread but I’ll come back.

[Stranger]

I'm around to vote. Reread isn't happening, IRL is, but will be around prior to hammer.

p-edit: Okay, cool. I'm okay with hammering Titus, will give her some time to show up if she has anything else to say but this flashwagon is surprisingly Good.

[Stranger]

VOTE: Malakittens

I feel comfortable doing this given the D1 scum flip. My vote is based solely on the (1) post that Malakittens has made in the neighborhood we have, where she stated that she believed the last scum to be in DV/Vex/Bulge given Titus's iso. This is written under the assumption that it's not just Titus's iso.

For DeasVail, I find it fairly hard to believe that someone would believe scum writing this about their partner:

VOTE: Vex

I admit to skimming. I like Bulge Stranger and StD as town.

Major reservations on Mala and Bella

Vex is my first player with a post that pinged me

Meg is gtmh town.

DV is null but I should have an opinion. I just don’t.

Because it is so blaringly obvious in how it's written. Everyone else gets an opinion but... Titus doesn't even lump her partner somewhere else, just shrugs at him says "yeah, no clue what my read is there lol" and goes about her business? That doesn't feel like the read a partner gives another. I find it curious that Mala suspects DV also because of 264, where DV has both myself and Mala as scumreads. I think I might be reading into this part too much but because we're neighbors I wonder if Mala was trying to get me to consider it or something like "Oh, DV is bad, let's get him."

This is... on the tinfoil end of things, though. Because there was literally just the listed partners and no reasoning.

For Vex/Bulge, I can see this making a little more sense. Titus was a lot more thorough in her opinions there, but even then it feels a bit out of the loop. This is actually a point towards Mala being town too, as I think scum might be a little more cognizant of what was going on EOD rather than jumping back to the basic wagons that formed most of D1. But it's still like, well, maybe she doesn't realize that, or wants to drill down on the idea that Titus was bussing/defending a partner and that's why she put in the effort there. If this is the case I lean towards Bulge being the potential partner out of the two, I think that it makes more sense to try and bruteforce through a town!Vex rather than hellbus a scum one. Even then though... eh? Maybe?

I'm aware that Malakittens is relatively inactive in games. However, I asked for an explanation for her reads and didn't get one, so... I feel like I have to put her through the wringer here. I want to know why she thinks those three are most likely to be scum.

My other option for scum right now is Bella, but I feel a lot less strong about that versus Mala, currently.

Also, no one else out their neighborhoods, please.

[Stranger]

I was dubious regarding Bella as well but... yeah, very particular weird thing to fake.

Regarding Mala, the answer she gave was... eh? I feel bad when people offer explanations and I’m not satisfied and have to ask for more but I’m going to do that. Hopefully she’s around more today.

And @Mala this isn’t like a specific question but a more broad... reread the game if you can and give more depth?

[Stranger]

Also regarding the wagon I think that the timing with which it formed is more likely to tempt a partner than not; you don’t have the luxury of sitting around and waiting if it would dissipate in the way you do a wagon that begins early on. So between being caught out for not voting and hopping on for the credit you feel pressured to do the same.

I don’t think Mala’s vote is the same as that given when she placed it.

[Stranger]

I don’t think a naked vote early into a game is clearing, frankly; there’s no real... tie there when most people pick a name out of the bucket and go.

And Mala, who is the scum cool with your death then? Do you think it’s DV/Vex voting you together to kill you? One of them with Bulge who’s trying to stay off wagon. Someone else??

You’re not going to vote someone you think’s town, okay. But you’re not voting anyone else and you’re just.. here. You’re not doing anything I feel I can townread? Lying down and accepting death is a... move sure but I don’t feel like you really feel conviction behind the claim of scum being okay with it if that makes sense. Pointing the finger vaguely but afraid to name a name:

So just... I don’t know can you case one of those people or something? I know this game’s slow but that means there shouldn’t be a lot you have to really read through. If not though just... name a name with some reasoning?? Anything?

[Stranger]

I believe that the only inno we would have would be the FN.

@Vex: could you elaborate on either the reasons DV shared or the reasons you have to suspect me, or... to trust everyone else more. Both preferably but... in the thread DV said I was viable which... okay, I thought it would be clarified on further at some point, given than the reason given prior to that in his reads list post was that I was posting intellectually well but not... emotionally, I guess? Which I assume feeds into those “weird pings” but to me it feels like a ghost case right now that I can’t really engage with or exonerate myself from. It’s just something existing, if that makes sense.

And I don’t think want to let it just exist for longer especially since it makes me... fairly uneasy, honestly, that you’d give it a pass for today. Which feels like the setup to “well, killed someone incorrectly today, let’s just go here since we established it...”

Also because I am floundering a little bit for mafia right now and feel myself drifting towards the above uneasiness more as a scumread which... I would rather just talk it out right now to see if there’s weight there.

(I will try not to ramble as much but I feel this perhaps more genuine than the cooler tone/approach I’ve taken which might help bridge the gap from intellectual to... sincere I guess??)

[Stranger]

@stranger - mostly what i could gather is that it seems like what you were saying felt more like performance to dv, (and to a lesser extent me.) more so trying to just say a lot of words to make it seem like you're townie rather than actually doing anything substantial. dv did later admit that he was getting paranoid, but like, i still think it's somewhat useful?

Could you point out examples of this, please?

I know I have a tendency to pad and ramble but... I feel like everything that I've said in this game is more than just words and has a purpose? I'm reading back through my own ISO now and I'm not really... understanding where you're coming from with this.

(And sorry for the late reply, I... kind of forgot about this game.)

[Stranger]

@stranger - mostly what i could gather is that it seems like what you were saying felt more like performance to dv, (and to a lesser extent me.) more so trying to just say a lot of words to make it seem like you're townie rather than actually doing anything substantial. dv did later admit that he was getting paranoid, but like, i still think it's somewhat useful?

Could you point out examples of this, please?

I know I have a tendency to pad and ramble but... I feel like everything that I've said in this game is more than just words and has a purpose? I'm reading back through my own ISO now and I'm not really... understanding where you're coming from with this.

(And sorry for the late reply, I... kind of forgot about this game.)

79, 113, 117, 283, 356

granted, i think a bit of it is also dyslexia makes me not want to read large chunks of text, so i mostly skim over them, or just go "yea this is a long bit of text that could probably be surmized in a shorter way" but reading through some of them a little more slowly, i still think they could be shortened a bit, but i'm less convinced on "it's just words to say words" type thing.

Alright — do you disagree with any of the logic in them/things I say or want me to shorten them for you if it’s more like... comprehensible? I guess I keep hammering away at this but I think that’s the best way to like... dunno. You’re not hammering down on this point or anything which I think would be a *necessity* if you were scum at this point rather than just sharing it and engaging with me so I’m not as like... leery.

I show up here starved for conversation send something into the void and it’s wiped from my head like that one Garfield meme.

[Stranger]

VOTE: Bellaphant

I... guess? I have no strong feelings about this other than “I did suspect her before I guess and the only reason I looked away was the Dragons thing.” Nothing’s happening and we have two days so.. E-1, claim?

[Stranger]

Okay.

Regarding claims, if we can take the FN to endgame if it comes to that, town’s at a big advantage. That’s why we’re reticent to claim unless it’s to kill, or at least me.

Who do you want to kill right now? Your last vote was in the last dayphase on Meg, but you haven’t thrown anything down today. Are you leaning away from there and more towards Bulge now, etc?

[Stranger]

Posting to dodge a prod, am unsure if I’ll be around tonight but will try to be, I’ve reread a bit but came to no solid conclusions — Vex you went from Bulge being conftown to probably mafia now, is that just because of the options you have or can you explain it more? The D3 play stuff.

[Stranger]

That’s... blatantly false. I have been cautious and unsure, sure, but... given stuff like Day Two, that claim is bad.

The fact that you’re reacting to Vex’s presumed vote on you like this with the “whatever” attitude is... like throwing in the towel almost with emotion? The last line of defense.

I can’t add much more right now but freer a bit more tonight if anything else is wanted.

VOTE: The Bulge

[Stranger]

I don’t know what else I can really say actually that’s really important, so not going to keep you on edge. Day one was just a T/S wagon competition and when Titus repped in she tried to save her partner and went down for them instead. Everyone was sort of dancing around Bulge scum pointing out still like emotions, weird bits, etc, and it got lost in the wake of her flip. My D1 reads slap apparently.

That’s how I see it now.

[Stranger]

And with that unless you wanna ask me stuff I’m done. It felt dumb to sit there like “wonder what I will divine on my reread..” in a game like this, lol.

[Stranger]

GG!

[Stranger]

Could we have the Pts, please?