large normal 239. game over

[KittyTacky]

update you solid towns kitty
urgent

I was asleep.

I don't have a full reads list assembled, but my solid towns are: {over90, ItalianoVD, RCEnigma}.

[KittyTacky]

Elsa is a townlean.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: mq.bosco

Scummy lurking.

[over90]

she is always lurking and i guess she plays in english first time in her life

[ItalianoVD]

In 226 I said:

"I wasn't really expecting to "convince" anyone on meta, but this day is long and if I'm right, I'm sure it'll show for others to see as well."

I believe that's what's happened. I strongly feel Nero is playing differently, both tone-wise and how he has been positioning himself around many of the slots in the game. I pointed this out here.

I'm gonna try to keep our interactions to a minimum despite it being a good chunk of the game.

His posts have felt off from the start. On the surface it looks the same forI'm a tonal reader so the littlest What I mean is his tone doesn't sound townie.

Here's what I mean. None of his posts sound like this this game. Almost has a melodic gentle sound to the tone. His tone this game has felt like nails on a chalkboard.

As town he also tends to give the benefit of the doubt to players when he is sorting, when it's deserved.

Take this for example:
Nero
Andres
Nero

This... As well as this.

In contrast:

Spoiler:

Last game I pushed several people early and they were all town. I don't want to repeat my mistakes.

honestly, this doesn't make me feel any better lol. I mean maybe I could see you go "oh my reads were really bad last game so I'm going try to let others lead." but then I think there's a good chunk of possible scum motivation in that.

lol

I wasn't reading the thread

is just such a convenient response. It's a hard swallow given that you were actively responding to a joke. I can't "prove" anything and coincidences do happen but I just don't really believe you when you say that you weren't reading the game and that your vote wasn't retaliation.

Also, if you've been paying attention, he has no town reads this game. Everyone is scummy, a classic scum tactic that makes it's possible for him to eliminate anyone including potential partners and not get heat.

Carca asked him here where his town reads were and he responds with:

Spoiler:

Everyone that's not VD, Gamma, STD, and Kitty. Though Dann also seems kinda scummy and you would make sense in a VD/Gamma team. That's my d1 solve so far.

Contrast it with this and this. He hasn't given anyone a townread this game or even hinted at doing so it's either scumread or fencesit (we'll get to the latter in a bit). The point is scum!nero very rarely if ever gives townreads.

These are also some of the contradictions I've found from Nero. Having a problem with Gamma answering a question for him, but answering a question for over90 in 70. Again had a problem with it in 904. Protesting against players fencesitting while doing the exact same.

Protesting:
144 - Talks about Kitty fencesitting
446 - Talks about fencesittiness in general

Partaking:
264 - Fencesitting on Kitty.
340 - Fencesitting on STD.

There is no good will in his pushes and many times he doesn't even care that it's a contradiction. Here's a contradiction of him forgetting his previous stance in the game.

y can't he just have a gut read? Why does his read have to be explained?

Really? You'll get this one if you've been paying attention. In 755 when interacting with over90 he posted:

If VD town flips or gets inno'd and you want to suspect me, fine but I guess that makes you a noob, right?

There is no conviction here that he is town. He downplays over90's associative measured plan (me v him) to pretty much say there is nothing to see here folks.

Tries his best to discredit another point, but just fails. Read 822 carefully and see if there is a difference from what I said in 820.

And then there's the claim or whatever it is he wants us to believe it is. I already pointed it out but this soft "claim" was in direct response to people not wanting to eliminate me, despite him saying it was not.

ok, I get it. No voting VD till I get a gulity. ok


VOTE: gamma

It does not feel like a town claim ever. What was the purpose of claiming here? I can't find town motivation here because even if it's ego, that claim would have come way earlier. Another thing that can't really be quantified is the resistance I feel when dealing with this game. Like everywhere I go within my scumleans there is resistance but no resistance within my townleans so to me that tells me that I'm not too far off in my thinking and/or I have to do a better job of getting town to work together. I'm pretty good at townreading players so I trust when I have placed players in my townbin for the most part. Of course there is always room for error.

The strongest reason why I was scumreading Nero from the get go was based on his tone and interaction with the playerlist. Now that the game has progressed and we are able to see more, it has pretty much solidified my stance. I just don't see town!Nero playing the game the game the way he is.

I'd like to end the day here if at all possible. I'm willing to compromise within my pool of scumleans, otherwise.

[ItalianoVD]

His posts have felt off from the start. On the surface it looks the same forI'm a tonal reader so the littlest What I mean is his tone doesn't sound townie.

Sorry, let's try that again.

His posts have felt off from the start. On the surface it looks the same for a town Nero, but if you look closer you see it's anything but. I'm a tonal reader so the littlest change in wording or how a player responds, interacts, sets of antennas. What I mean is his tone doesn't sound townie.

That's better.

[Carcalilly]

UNVOTE:

i have also been lurking, i may replace out, if its not too much of a hassle. otherwise i can try to pull up.

[Nero Cain]

the first rule of mafia is to not talk about replacing out. kinda silly but a rule nonetheless.

[RCEnigma]

929 is good posting actually. I still don't buy Nero!scum here, but 929 looks townie.

[Nero Cain]

b/c conviction?

[DeasVail]

y?

bosco - mostly the Elsa Jay vote and reaction around that, believing that it was okay that she voted Elsa Jay because over90 voted Elsa Jay too. Why isn't bosco-town worried that the people voting Elsa Jay could be scum? Or is this scum who truly believes they are fitting in with the townies by voting for Elsa Jay?

Nashed - I didn't like their early posts which seemed like posting for the sake of posting rather than actually doing anything. Plus I was originally suspicious of 669 BUT I have changed my mind and don't actually think Nashed is that scummy on a re-read.

Cakez - I liked STD's thoughts on him, and I am additionally suspicious because of the over90 vote, the justification for it in 779 ("clearly you have not played with me before" feels overly defensive) and still not removing the vote despite not actually being active? It feels like scum pretending to "fall" for what town might think is a townslip.

[DeasVail]

VD, thanks for the post on Nero. I appreciate it.

I see that you have compared Nero here to Nero town-games. Do you have reason to believe that the points you make are consistent with how Nero plays as scum, or is it just inconsistent with your Nero-town experience?

[Nero Cain]

Gather round as I regale you with the tale of one Gamma Emerald.

For 5 straight games, he had a tone scum read on Nero Cain and for 5 straight games, he was wrong as Nero Cain was town each time.

This will be 6. aka tone reads on me are trash






Personally, I don't think I'm a hard read and I think that players that can't read me are usually on the bad side but there are some that will argue that I'm an easy read.

Right off the bat, I think that your Andre example doesn't make sense b/c I wasn't "sorting" him. I thought he was making a joke about a previous game and it had nothing to do with the game.

You are right that I haven't been doling out town reads but I think 487 is a perfectly fine response and is my belief anyway. There's only 4 scum here, so if scum is some combination of you, Titus, Elsa/Cara/Mala, Kitty, STD (maybe Deas instead now) What's the difference between me pushing that I think scum are here and you throwing out mostly unexplained or poorly explained reads lists? I think you are being a bit of a hypocrite. I get the allure of town reading those that are town reading/agreeing with you but you should be wary as it could just be scum sheeping you (kitty and cara) but I guess you could say the same for me (deas and RCE)

Your argument that I'm fence-sitting on Kitty and STD in 264 and 340 respectively is either a blatant lie or a terrible terrible misread. I'm also uninformed so having 100% conviction isn't going to be possible on d1. What makes you so convinced your reads are right?

There is no conviction here that he is town. He downplays over90's associative measured plan (me v him) to pretty much say there is nothing to see here folks.

So you agree with him that when I flip town you should be voted out? I really hope scum shoots me so I can watch you squirm from the dead thread. You should have enough experience by now to know that the majority of all pushes in-game are going to be TvT unless it's a really good town and that 1v1ing all the pushers is going to be a bad strategy and will result in mostly town death. I mean maybe you just really think I'm scum and think I'm trying to get out of a 1v1 but I'm also town and I know that I'm going to flip town and it won't help town. Is it really that unbelievable that I'd be against my own flip? But like I said, I hope scum kills me (or I'm vigged) so we can see your reaction. I assume you will also be against your flip.

Tries his best to discredit another point, but just fails. Read 822 carefully and see if there is a difference from what I said in 820.

Well I mean sure, you said that something that didn't happen happened and I'm correcting you.

I already pointed it out but this soft "claim" was in direct response to people not wanting to eliminate me, despite him saying it was not.

I'm not sure if I ever said that.

arguing that my Kitty push is different than my Petapan push is just subjective and meh

I'm pretty good at townreading players so I trust when I have placed players in my townbin for the most part.

this doesn't have a whole lot to do with the game but it's a bit of a copout to say that you are good at finding town b/c you are going to be mostly right on b/c most games are going to be only 3-5 scum. In the past, I have voted out a scum Chara and a scum Mala for "townhunting"

[mq.bosco]

I guess you could argue a NK15 and mq.bosco team b/c I'm asking mq.bosco a question and he's answering for her.

So easy, yeah? He answered u about smth he said before, he didn't answered instead of me.
Yes, u're scummy. And Cakez!

[Titus]

I guess you could argue a NK15 and mq.bosco team b/c I'm asking mq.bosco a question and he's answering for her.

So easy, yeah? He answered u about smth he said before, he didn't answered instead of me.
Yes, u're scummy. And Cakez!

The tone of this feels off but I may hate the grammar.

[Titus]

Gather round as I regale you with the tale of one Gamma Emerald.

For 5 straight games, he had a tone scum read on Nero Cain and for 5 straight games, he was wrong as Nero Cain was town each time.

This will be 6. aka tone reads on me are trash






Personally, I don't think I'm a hard read and I think that players that can't read me are usually on the bad side but there are some that will argue that I'm an easy read.

Right off the bat, I think that your Andre example doesn't make sense b/c I wasn't "sorting" him. I thought he was making a joke about a previous game and it had nothing to do with the game.

You are right that I haven't been doling out town reads but I think 487 is a perfectly fine response and is my belief anyway. There's only 4 scum here, so if scum is some combination of you, Titus, Elsa/Cara/Mala, Kitty, STD (maybe Deas instead now) What's the difference between me pushing that I think scum are here and you throwing out mostly unexplained or poorly explained reads lists? I think you are being a bit of a hypocrite. I get the allure of town reading those that are town reading/agreeing with you but you should be wary as it could just be scum sheeping you (kitty and cara) but I guess you could say the same for me (deas and RCE)

Your argument that I'm fence-sitting on Kitty and STD in 264 and 340 respectively is either a blatant lie or a terrible terrible misread. I'm also uninformed so having 100% conviction isn't going to be possible on d1. What makes you so convinced your reads are right?

There is no conviction here that he is town. He downplays over90's associative measured plan (me v him) to pretty much say there is nothing to see here folks.

So you agree with him that when I flip town you should be voted out? I really hope scum shoots me so I can watch you squirm from the dead thread. You should have enough experience by now to know that the majority of all pushes in-game are going to be TvT unless it's a really good town and that 1v1ing all the pushers is going to be a bad strategy and will result in mostly town death. I mean maybe you just really think I'm scum and think I'm trying to get out of a 1v1 but I'm also town and I know that I'm going to flip town and it won't help town. Is it really that unbelievable that I'd be against my own flip? But like I said, I hope scum kills me (or I'm vigged) so we can see your reaction. I assume you will also be against your flip.

Tries his best to discredit another point, but just fails. Read 822 carefully and see if there is a difference from what I said in 820.

Well I mean sure, you said that something that didn't happen happened and I'm correcting you.

I already pointed it out but this soft "claim" was in direct response to people not wanting to eliminate me, despite him saying it was not.

I'm not sure if I ever said that.

arguing that my Kitty push is different than my Petapan push is just subjective and meh

I'm pretty good at townreading players so I trust when I have placed players in my townbin for the most part.

this doesn't have a whole lot to do with the game but it's a bit of a copout to say that you are good at finding town b/c you are going to be mostly right on b/c most games are going to be only 3-5 scum. In the past, I have voted out a scum Chara and a scum Mala for "townhunting"

Town, probably. Def not S v S with Gamma.

[Not Known 15]

There's only 4 scum here

I see TMI.
VOTE: Nero

[DeasVail]

I don’t really think NK15 is scum anymore

[Titus]

VOTE: DV

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Titus

[Titus]

Interesting.

[Elsa Jay]

Preferably if I had to make a suggestion it would be Mala since she's the most likely scum of the neighbors IMO.(hood is ded now btw). Or I guess Nashed as someone who lurked out. I guess that applies to Carca too.

Titus isn't priority and Nero seems town enough? Dunno if Over is still an option today tho.

F*** I hate getting rid of useful people day 1 that isn't obvious scum.

[over90]

i'm alive. the day will be finished in 2 days 18 hours. we have some time. i will be here more attentive and active after about 12-15 hours from now.

i need to admit that this large game is quite difficult, im usually more sure in my opinion till the end of day1, and usually i have not much mistakes. maybe because of many replacements... i definitely need to reread everything and update my opinion, and it will be soon

i was playing other games today not here, i worked and it was quite a hard day, i go to sleep

[Titus]

Going to go with Elsa is town and DV is scum based on the chainsaw from RCE. Wouldn't surprise me if Nero's scum too but I don't think so based on his play. Rather I think the moves are to obscure if Nero is correct about his allegation there's four scum in a particular pool.

[Titus]

Titus, Elsa/Cara/Mala, Kitty, STD (maybe Deas instead now) What's the difference between me pushing that I think scum are here and you throwing out mostly unexplained or poorly explained reads lists

Taking this and modifying
Deasvail
StD
Mala/Cara
RCE
Person with a dot in their name