Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Meuh]

Also, your case is...a handful of posts from within the first 10 pages of the game? Seriously?


I think if you actually looked through games you'd find hundreds to thousands of instances of players having slight scumreads or awkward interactions or whatever and them not being mafia teammates. Trying to find the exact team based on interactions with 17 players alive is just terrible, terrible process and I strongly doubt you'll catch scum at a rate better than random doing it. If you actually have an issue with anything I've said, come at me directly rather than making a nebulous associative case. Your entire reasoning falls apart if marci is town, so I don't see why it makes sense to come after me - and since I know

I'm

town, it means your reasoning for marci being scum isn't very credible to me.

iirc you got called town by like one person on page 4 or something and everyone accepted it. Time to question that a bit more
Ik preflip associatives aren't that productive but let me engage in my conspiratorial thinking a bit. I'm passionate about it and it's fun!
Perhaps the point I made about you/Marci being scum together falls apart if she's town, but independently I think you're scummy, or at the very least you should be scrutinized more. Enchant's vote prompted me to look at your ISO and... yeah. It's not great.

PEdit: read people better I kicked the hornet's nest as VPB would say, scum big mad!

[Rhyme and Reason]

we can boogie with this while we're figuring shit out

VOTE: gorilla

Who here is familiar with lld? Because given how little she'd done so far, I think that kill is much more likely to come from someone who knows her reputation. Here, the main names that occur to me are gorilla/dunn/Bell/Baltar/Cakez. Bell is clear, seemingly, so that leaves me with a likely scum in (gorilla/dunn/Cakez).

I also don't like Fey's entrance today. Not sure it's necessarily a scum entrance, but I think her conclusions about Invictus and where scum kill is almost 180 on what it should be. Namely: I think that the harder someone who eats the NK is SRing someone, the more likely that person is to be town due to the high chance of them using their Invictus on scum if they're right, and how devastating that could be for the scum team within a couple of nights.

Related to that thought, I think that it's decently clearing for dwlee that lld was the kill, and I wouldn't support another wagon there again today. I think, related to this, that there may well have been scum hopping to his wagon at EoD to try and maintain one of them (competing wagons theory) for a kill later on. I'm not sure exactly who it is yet, though.

~Rhyme

~Rhyme

[SirCakez]

Lld kill definitely seems like scum who are comfy but scared of being LLD'd

[gorilla]

Imagine thinking sheeping a troll who is openly not playing the game and probably has <<<rand voting accuracy is a good idea. The type of player who would have been an easy policy kill back in the day.


Anyawy, go ahead and scrutinize me. What are you getting out of this, exactly?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: gorilla

started okay, mostly fell off, vote on lavar kind of bad, not a lot of scumhunting.

^still feel reasonably good this is mafia

Practice what you preach

I'm not seeing any cases or moving beyond the start of the game or "actually learning to read people better". And I'm not seeing any acknowledgment that the last 3 deaths actually happened besides saying that my vote on Lavar was bad somehow.

I've been keeping a lot of my reads to my notes and only mentioned them when necessary, but I'm pretty sure I

have

mentioned them. However, I've also openly been bored with the game since mid day 1, so I don't necessarily blame you if I feel like I'm "not doing much". But it's still on you to actually learn to read people better, if you're town.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: Dunnstral

started okay, mostly fell off, vote on lavar kind of bad, not a lot of scumhunting.

I could sheep this
Dunn really fell off towards EoD1. Feels more like his scum meta again now and the Lavar vote was for sure bad.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: Dunnstral

started okay, mostly fell off, vote on lavar kind of bad, not a lot of scumhunting.

What an ass day 1

I bet scum were all over the Lavar wagon the reasoning for it was so bad

I find it hard to believe that Cakez town read Lava as hard as he claimed day 1. I also didn't like the way that he engaged with the case on Lava itself.

It feels more like he is just trying hard to look like The Person Who Was Right.

VOTE: Cakez

Wow because I said Lavar was town all day 1 then he was town and I got frustrated that seems unusual? Forgive me for having a read correct

[Dunnstral]

Feels more like his scum meta again

Prove it

Show us how that's my scum meta

[Dunnstral]

(it's not)

[SirCakez]

VOTE: SirCakez

Total scum move

[SirCakez]

Feels more like his scum meta again

Prove it

Show us how that's my scum meta

I easily could and you know that

[Rhyme and Reason]

I mean, I'm kind of coming round to you being town now after looking at your ISO again Cakez (plus S_S thinks you're town) but I had some pretty bad desire to kill you yesterday and that was definitely part of it, so I don't think Luke is crazy for thinking along the same lines

~Rhyme

[Rhyme and Reason]

Does anyone really give a shit if it's scum!meta or not, because I don't think I've seen more than a handful of wagons that ever went through on a meta case and I'm pretty sure that when they did they were nearly always being pushed by someone with a historically very good read record who could probably have got the lim they wanted regardless of justification

~Rhyme

[gorilla]

I'm not seeing any cases or moving beyond the start of the game or "actually learning to read people better". And I'm not seeing any acknowledgment that the last 3 deaths actually happened besides saying that my vote on Lavar was bad somehow.

1. Why are "cases" necessary? very few people have actually been making cases today. And the day's still young, I don't particularly see the need to dump a full reads wall as of yet.

2. What needs to be "acknowledged" about the last 3 deaths, exactly? I

have

stated a hypothesis about why LLD was killed: I don't think scum were under any significant threat yesterday, and as such I believe we should look at people who were under-examined rather than simply revisiting people who were the main wagons on day 1 (marci, dwlee - although i'm still not totally sure about dwlee). Part of that is why I'm voting you.

It looks like you're making a OMGUS pushback on me that is timed out of convenience with there being a wagon on me, rather than having any real read.

[Kovu]

It's like playing free for all dodgeball when half of people have grudge on me.

dodgeball sounds fun!!

[Meuh]

Imagine thinking sheeping a troll who is openly not playing the game and probably has <<<rand voting accuracy is a good idea. The type of player who would have been an easy policy kill back in the day.


Anyawy, go ahead and scrutinize me. What are you getting out of this, exactly?

Since when am I sheeping? I already said Enchant's vote prompted me to reevaluate you, and I drew my own conclusions from there. For you to be this dismissive of it all is odd.
Enchant being a policy lim "back in the day" doesn't somehow make you less scummy, I don't care. The fact this is the angle you're approaching my vote with makes me think you're not engaging with me in good faith.

I don't think scum were under any significant threat yesterday, and as such I believe we should look at people who were under-examined rather than simply revisiting people who were the main wagons on day 1 (marci, dwlee - although i'm still not totally sure about dwlee).

You mean we should look at people like you? Like what I'm doing at this very moment? You're pretty much the player who got the least pressure on day 1

[Kovu]

I also don't like Fey's entrance today. Not sure it's necessarily a scum entrance, but I think her conclusions about Invictus and where scum kill is almost 180 on what it should be. Namely: I think that the harder someone who eats the NK is SRing someone, the more likely that person is to be town due to the high chance of them using their Invictus on scum if they're right, and how devastating that could be for the scum team within a couple of nights.

I'd like to think Fey is town, based on how they started the game basically hating me, I'm gonna assume that comes from town!ydra, and if that is scum!ydra... we're not going there

so yeah, that's how fey joined my TRs

[gorilla]

Imagine thinking sheeping a troll who is openly not playing the game and probably has <<<rand voting accuracy is a good idea. The type of player who would have been an easy policy kill back in the day.


Anyawy, go ahead and scrutinize me. What are you getting out of this, exactly?

Since when am I sheeping? I already said Enchant's vote prompted me to reevaluate you, and I drew my own conclusions from there. For you to be this dismissive of it all is odd.
Enchant being a policy lim "back in the day" doesn't somehow make you less scummy, I don't care. The fact this is the angle you're approaching my vote with makes me think you're not engaging with me in good faith.

I don't think scum were under any significant threat yesterday, and as such I believe we should look at people who were under-examined rather than simply revisiting people who were the main wagons on day 1 (marci, dwlee - although i'm still not totally sure about dwlee).

You mean we should look at people like you? Like what I'm doing at this very moment? You're pretty much the player who got the least pressure on day 1

I'm dismissing it because your case against me is bad and insubstantial. It's not like there's a lot for me to respond to.

Like, what do you expect me to say here? Do you expect me to go "oh no you're right, I am scummy"? Do you expect me to go back and quote the posts where I gave reads to prove to you that I totally was scumhunting? Would that actually prove anything to you? Because I doubt it would. If I went "oh here are all my reads this game for XYZ reasons" would you care? You're not approaching me like you care about my perspective on the game, you're approaching me like you've decided you want to lim me and anything I say to you is further proof of my scumminess.

You're either town who is tunneling for very bad reasons, or scum who is sensing an opportunity to push me. Even if you are town I think the likelihood of you getting persuaded by anything I say is pretty small.

[gorilla]

I also don't like Fey's entrance today. Not sure it's necessarily a scum entrance, but I think her conclusions about Invictus and where scum kill is almost 180 on what it should be. Namely: I think that the harder someone who eats the NK is SRing someone, the more likely that person is to be town due to the high chance of them using their Invictus on scum if they're right, and how devastating that could be for the scum team within a couple of nights.

I'd like to think Fey is town, based on how they started the game basically hating me, I'm gonna assume that comes from town!ydra, and if that is scum!ydra... we're not going there

so yeah, that's how fey joined my TRs

I don't think being rude to you is an alignment tell and nothing I've seen from Fey this game is particularly towny.

[Kovu]

I think it's very interesting, like you guys are all "just invictus enchant!!" or "enchant is scum!!!" just enchant goes "Gorilla maf" and now all of a sudden everyone is like "yeah!!" like, why did you have to wait for enchant for you to actually do something?
"Since when am I sheeping? I already said..."
ummm you waited for enchant.. yeah it falls into the category of sheeping, like, sure I definitely agree with gorilla being suspicious. for sure. but this wagon coming from a town (collective unit) where many yall are actively like "enchant isn't town!!" like, that feels really odd to me, also as long as gorilla continues to be like one of the only ones actively doing anything, I'm not voting gorilla d2

[Rhyme and Reason]

@Kovu -- Given our past record in games I might not interact with you a lot; this may seem hypocritical given my criticisms of Datisi but I feel we end up going in circles when we are in games with one another as I cannot understand your logic prior. I am reading your posts though, and if something is genuinely pressing that you need my reply on, please let me know. Otherwise, I feel my posts will be better spent elsewhere lest I end up spiraling out of irritation towards you.

Kovu has a tendency to be self-contradictory and erratic a lot in play. It can be a lot to try to follow sometimes. Give them a few days to see what they do/vote/etc and judge from there.

@Kovu: I think that... it’s hard to change how you think about games entirely. But I’m not mad or angered at you. That’s genuinely how I see your play and I was frank about why I might interact with you less. Similarly, Val asked a question about your play and I answered the way I best think you’re read.

I’ll post more relevant content later tonight.

I don't think this is in anyway beyond the pale to say as scum, and I don't think it's clearing. I liked Fey's interaction with Datisi on D1 which is why I had her as town. I don't have her as scum now, but my confidence in her being town has dropped notably, because I don't understand how town!her is concluding that her death points towards lld's scumreads being actual scum. Mainly, I know that Fey is logical, and yet she's drawing a conclusion that I, knowing I'm town, have reached the complete opposite conclusion on. That strikes me as potentially being due to said conclusion flowing from motivated reasoning instead of the real thing, and I don't see why town!Fey would do that but I can see why scum!Fey would. I'd like to talk with her anyway

~Rhyme

[SirCakez]

I mean, I'm kind of coming round to you being town now after looking at your ISO again Cakez (plus S_S thinks you're town) but I had some pretty bad desire to kill you yesterday and that was definitely part of it, so I don't think Luke is crazy for thinking along the same lines

~Rhyme

You can think I'm scum but I hate that Luke is using me being correct about my Lavar read as the reason because it's like saying that I wasn't actually good enough to have just read Lavar correctly

[gorilla]

I think it's very interesting, like you guys are all "just invictus enchant!!" or "enchant is scum!!!" just enchant goes "Gorilla maf" and now all of a sudden everyone is like "yeah!!" like, why did you have to wait for enchant for you to actually do something?
"Since when am I sheeping? I already said..."
ummm you waited for enchant.. yeah it falls into the category of sheeping, like, sure I definitely agree with gorilla being suspicious. for sure. but this wagon coming from a town (collective unit) where many yall are actively like "enchant isn't town!!" like, that feels really odd to me, also as long as gorilla continues to be like one of the only ones actively doing anything, I'm not voting gorilla d2

For what it's worth, I think enchant is relatively likely to be town based on a few things he's said, but I wouldn't really be comfortable with clearing him because of it, and I'd pretty much always want him to die before endgame because I think he's a liability.

[gorilla]

Bell's role is kind of surprising, the ability for a player to conf-town themselves in this setup is really overpowering given the invictus mechanic. Still, I don't think it's particularly likely to be a scum gambit.

I feel reasonably good about the following being town: Kovu, Bell, Gammagooey, Cakez (and no, it's not just because he's voting Dunn)

So long as a handful of consensus towns can be established, I think this game is relatively easy.

[gorilla]

Sort of annoyed wishing I'd stood up for Datisi more but it's not like I could have known he'd be invictus'd.