Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Val89]

VOTE: VP Baltar

[VP Baltar]

Enchant is playing at a higher level than kovu and bell at this point lol. Bell, you're being ridiculous and I don't know what I can say to help you. What exactly do you think is scummy about me? You just keep saying you're tunneled, but like, what have I done to make you feel that way.

Kovu, I find the way you play this game to be very frustrating. That's the nicest way I can put it.

@gorilla - can you explain your change in perspective a bit more than: I slept on it? What specifically shifted for you on luke? I also feel like a dunn vote at this point is a bit of a nowhere vote (though he is noticeably absent.

Pedit - why are you voting me val?

[Val89]

I, too, would like to see what happens.

Why shouldn't I be voting you?

[VP Baltar]

I, too, would like to see what happens.

Why shouldn't I be voting you?

I'm town, and there isn't actually a reason to think I'm scum here.

What do you expect to happen exactly?

[VP Baltar]

Flailing isn't scum-indicative for me

Do you have any town examples where you straight up used misinformation to try to push people as you were getting run up?

[VP Baltar]

like every time I'll post and no one will respond.. like he has posted right before me many of the times, and just ignores what I say when I'm actually making a solid point, it's just like, VP... you have no comment? idk, it's a very recent thought, and I was like, hold up.. someone has been tunneling him in thread and I've just ignored... but I think you might have a genuine point there.

I find things you say to be so bad that I choose not to comment on them because I'm not trying to have arguments with you over your bad ideas.

You clearly just started omgusing marci last night and it had nothing to do with good points against marci (which actually could be made). So, sorry for ignoring you, but I'm trying not to be an asshole and have shit fights with someone I think is town. I actually did type up a whole thing this morning telling you to stop making everything drama about how mad you are and no one treats you well or whatever, but it seemed mean to me and I deleted it.

[VP Baltar]

My best moment probably ever was in KTANE when tldr there was a role that could force an explosion to frame townies but town didn't know yet, and the only way Baltar could be town fmpov was if the role existed, and then I predicted that Baltar was scum, the role existed, and that the person he was trying to lim was that role to try to save himself

You understand how after watching you pull this big brain off, I'm questioning why you are playing this game so badly, right?

[Meuh]

Hornet's nest

[Dwlee99]

Flailing isn't scum-indicative for me

Do you have any town examples where you straight up used misinformation to try to push people as you were getting run up?

I haven't done that here idk why you keep repeating it

My best moment probably ever was in KTANE when tldr there was a role that could force an explosion to frame townies but town didn't know yet, and the only way Baltar could be town fmpov was if the role existed, and then I predicted that Baltar was scum, the role existed, and that the person he was trying to lim was that role to try to save himself

You understand how after watching you pull this big brain off, I'm questioning why you are playing this game so badly, right?

It's day 2 with no scum flips and also if you're town you have no idea how right I am except on you and you're objectively playing like your last scum game so you shouldn't be surprised I scumread you here

[Dwlee99]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=88401

Here is the last time I was mislimmed btw

[Kovu]

VOTE: marcistar

ok, I still want marci limmed here

[Bell]

Enchant is playing at a higher level than kovu and bell at this point lol. Bell, you're being ridiculous and I don't know what I can say to help you. What exactly do you think is scummy about me? You just keep saying you're tunneled, but like, what have I done to make you feel that way.

Kovu, I find the way you play this game to be very frustrating. That's the nicest way I can put it.

@gorilla - can you explain your change in perspective a bit more than: I slept on it? What specifically shifted for you on luke? I also feel like a dunn vote at this point is a bit of a nowhere vote (though he is noticeably absent.

Pedit - why are you voting me val?

Every post you make feels like bullshit.

[Enchant]

Enchant is playing at a higher level than kovu and bell at this point lol.

MINE EGO

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

[VP Baltar]

It's day 2 with no scum flips and also if you're town you have no idea how right I am except on you and you're objectively playing like your last scum game so you shouldn't be surprised I scumread you here

I objectively play the same way as either alignment. You have played with me enough to know this. There are subtle differences that are obvious to me, but you being like "you said I was trolling you in a scum game too!" is dogshit reasoning.

At some point, if you're town, it'd be cool if you took a modicum of responsibility for your own play here.

[fireisredsir]

idk what i prefer

tbh probably once meuh shows up and starts talking again ill prefer dwlee again

i don't wanna make decisions

There's that town cowardice I know and love.
*high fives*

you don't even know how stressed having an invictus shot makes me

if i die and shoot town with it i might cry

can't believe there's people out there who actually enjoy randing vig

*takes reins*

Fire who do you wanna lim? *let’s go of reins*

I’m utterly and totally tunneled on Baltar.
I’m open to Marci if Luke is comfortable killing there.

ok this is bullying

~

idk if there's more specific things to respond to but ima just thoughtdump on the people currently in question:

- dwlee has been under pressure almost all of the time that they've been here and that alone kinda makes me hesitate, bc maybe they are just struggling to get their footing. it can happen to town too. i remember in ktane i wasn't used to everyone suspecting me and was kinda flail-y and kinda jumped around a lot and not everything i said made sense. i kinda have felt some of those vibes from dwlee here. i think that reaction to pressure tends to get scumread but it isn't always right to do so. idk. could still be scum, but slightly leaning away from here atm

- meuh has had her moments where it feels like a town light is shining through, but they feel kinda few and far between to me. there's been too many moments to me that feel like they are constructed to look like she's following town thought process but actually feel like the direction was determined in advance. i just don't really see a natural evolution of reads based on new information, it feels like intentional positioning. i still think this is prob my preferred vote

- marci i scumread early for lack of what i felt like was genuine thought process to support her reads, but then i kinda started to feel like people were taking advantage of her being an easy push and it sketched me out a bit. then she just completely disappeared d2 and it seemed like everyone forgot about her. which... i kinda feel like if she was town then scum would have been more active in trying to bring that wagon back? i don't 100% agree with all of kovu's reasoning but i like the push and agree with the suspicion. she basically has done nothing towny in a while and wasn't really all that towny to begin with, would vote here

- vp i also scumread early, and actually felt p strong about it at the time, but then i felt like he actually towned it up a ton (for him) in the time since. i think generally his interactions with dwlee are surface level Not Great but remind me of some interactions he's had with me, that in the past i found it hard to see him as town for but ik now that's more just how he plays things. plan to reread today since some people seem reasonably convinced and maybe ive been giving him too much of a pass but i don't really see myself voting here atm

[Bell]

It's day 2 with no scum flips and also if you're town you have no idea how right I am except on you and you're objectively playing like your last scum game so you shouldn't be surprised I scumread you here

I objectively play the same way as either alignment. You have played with me enough to know this. There are subtle differences that are obvious to me, but you being like "you said I was trolling you in a scum game too!" is dogshit reasoning.

At some point, if you're town, it'd be cool if you took a modicum of responsibility for your own play here.

A lie or delusion. In your first statement before back pedaling into “only I can read me”

[VP Baltar]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=88401

Here is the last time I was mislimmed btw

Will read this later today when I am at a computer.

Enchant is playing at a higher level than kovu and bell at this point lol. Bell, you're being ridiculous and I don't know what I can say to help you. What exactly do you think is scummy about me? You just keep saying you're tunneled, but like, what have I done to make you feel that way.

Kovu, I find the way you play this game to be very frustrating. That's the nicest way I can put it.

@gorilla - can you explain your change in perspective a bit more than: I slept on it? What specifically shifted for you on luke? I also feel like a dunn vote at this point is a bit of a nowhere vote (though he is noticeably absent.

Pedit - why are you voting me val?

Every post you make feels like bullshit.

Feels like bullshit. Let me know when you have something I can actually respond to so you can get out of your confirmation bias.

[Bell]

Sure. But I doubt I’ll have something more given apparently you’re unreadable to anybody but yourself.
Dwlee took full responsibility for their reads already, you saying it, is just emotional manipulation.

[VP Baltar]

Sure. But I doubt I’ll have something more given apparently you’re unreadable to anybody but yourself.
Dwlee took full responsibility for their reads already, you saying it, is just emotional manipulation.

I don't know what dwlee taking responsibility for reads means. I'm saying they are acting like I'm being so unfair to them, when every interaction I've had is them flailing under me applying pressure. Even when I look elsewhere, they start saying I have to be scum for questioning them, which is fucking stupid.

As far as readability, you're not proving me wrong by being unable to read me two games straight now, so...what do you want me to say? Like, I think you're majorly over compensating for last game, and that's why I'm asking for things you want me to talk about because I'm trying to help you. Instead, you're just digging in and being sparky, so go off I guess.

[Bell]

Actually they’re saying that they think you’re scum because based on their experience with you they think you’re scum.


Okay Baltar time out. I want you to sit to the side for a moment. Okay. You lied real bad at the end of that game. I was town reading you for most of it but I didn’t hard defend you in the end because your brain broke and you started tmi’ing.

[Meuh]

I objectively play the same way as either alignment.

huh
So we should all be neutral on your alignment? No one should townread or scumread you?
If there's no way for us to be able to read you since you play the exact same as either alignment; shouldn't we lim you right now to avoid having to sort an unreadable player in endgame?

[Bell]

You did good, but this “I 100% fooled you” thing.
Nah. I had doubts. You deciding it was a 100% win is just not true and it’s annoying if you really think that or if this is just rhetoric or you being surly or whatever.

[VP Baltar]

You did good, but this “I 100% fooled you” thing.
Nah. I had doubts. You deciding it was a 100% win is just not true and it’s annoying if you really think that or if this is just rhetoric or you being surly or whatever.

My point is that I was townread that game for a long time until I made a greedy play trying to pave my way to end game. I didn't get caught because I got super sleuthed. The person who came closest to that was dwlee. It was good play by them to not buy my bullshit there.

But you're not going to catch me in any game because of things like phrasing. I'm not a noob at this game. That is my point. I'm not trying to ego flex on you or something. I think most people in this game are good players, which makes me suss when I see such bad arguments being made about why I am scum. Its extremely unhelpful that you, as confirmed town, and Kovu, as pretty obvious town, keep pushing unfounded paranoia. It's town poison and it's frustrating to me to watch what I feel like is game throwing behavior.

What I am doing with you is trying to get you to explain your position beyond your feelings, because that's not really something I can help you with to arrive at the proper conclusion that I'm town. If you're going to just shit tunnel, we may as well stop talking because I'm not going to waste my dwindling post count for today on that.

[fireisredsir]

ok so on vp

i was rereading, fully expecting that once i saw his earlygame i would be reminded of why i found it scummy originally, and would see it that way again, but... i don't really. even looking at my own posts on it from the time i don't feel as strongly anymore. i can see town him responding in that way to the posts that i made, too.

the only thing that i still think really holds for me is how he went on full aggressive attack mode right after bell called him out for being too nice and working together too much to be town. that is still an action that i can totally see scum vp doing, and feels a little odd to be a coincidence. i also don't fully buy the confidence on wanting to push bell, that felt like it could be a positioning move.

but then posts like 620 i really like. some of the things with val especially are points that i wouldn't really expect scum vp to make because i don't think they really get him anywhere, and there's some nuance in the post that feels... unmotivated? like he's not really pushing an agenda at all.

i think his actions near end of day 1 felt generally like pro-town proactivity, i guess its slightly more questionable if dwlee is town, but if that's the case then i don't think he really needs to put himself in the spotlight as taking deliberate action there

d2 early also feels p towny for vp to me. maybe bc i generally agreed with the directions that he was pushing, but idk, it feels like he came to those pushes independently, i didn't feel like it came along with any attempt to pocket me or anything. some of the interaction with dwlee is meh but idk if its that scummy for vp. i think I've felt "there's no way he can seriously believe the things he's saying" more often from town vp than scum vp

i do think vp is wrong that he is exactly the same in terms of content as both alignments and only differs in action. i think as scum he's more careful about who he wants to play nice with. i don't really feel that here. as scum i think he also is a bit more content to not be proactive at times. there's been times this game, late d1 and early d2 especially, that i feel like he has been proactive at times where he wouldn't really need to be as scum. that's not like hard clearing at all, but it is town points imo

so eh. i don't really see it. i also think that, especially due to some of the actions he's taken, he will be more sortable once there's more flips, so i don't really think it's a good lim today. and tbh the fact that he has taken action that will make him more sortable with more flips kinda makes me lean towards him just being town, bc thats something i would expect him to avoid as scum unless it was really necessary

[Bell]

You did good, but this “I 100% fooled you” thing.
Nah. I had doubts. You deciding it was a 100% win is just not true and it’s annoying if you really think that or if this is just rhetoric or you being surly or whatever.

My point is that I was townread that game for a long time until I made a greedy play trying to pave my way to end game. I didn't get caught because I got super sleuthed. The person who came closest to that was dwlee. It was good play by them to not buy my bullshit there.

But you're not going to catch me in any game because of things like phrasing. I'm not a noob at this game. That is my point. I'm not trying to ego flex on you or something. I think most people in this game are good players, which makes me suss when I see such bad arguments being made about why I am scum. Its extremely unhelpful that you, as confirmed town, and Kovu, as pretty obvious town, keep pushing unfounded paranoia. It's town poison and it's frustrating to me to watch what I feel like is game throwing behavior.

What I am doing with you is trying to get you to explain your position beyond your feelings, because that's not really something I can help you with to arrive at the proper conclusion that I'm town. If you're going to just shit tunnel, we may as well stop talking because I'm not going to waste my dwindling post count for today on that.

Your point keeps getting lost under emotional manipulations, posturing and insincerity.