Night Watch Open 95 - Game Over before 703

[Jex]

Last night the mafia struck and

KMD4390

ended up dead. The poor

Watcher

of our town is now deceased.

There are 11 alive so it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 1 begins now

[bionicchop2]

So is this some kind of commonly used setup or did Crazy come up with this setup?

If it is a commonly used setup, anybody have any links to previous games?

I don't think a night start game really calls for a random voting phase since we already have information to start from (and in this instance we kind of had random voting already).

[afatchic]

well i never got my RV, so i

Vote Crazy

[bionicchop2]

Answers to my own questions:

Night Watch Mafia

3 Mafia Goons
1 Role Cop (detects Goons as "vanilla")
2 Watchers
1 Hider
5 Vanilla townies

Night Start

Was suggested by Adel on Sept. 6 and I don't think the game has been run yet.

[Xtoxm]

What is the point of this being Night start?

All it is is Mafia get pot luck on whether or not they remove a power role.

Vote Crazy

Still think only a maf would know that.

[bionicchop2]

What is the point of this being Night start?

All it is is Mafia get pot luck on whether or not they remove a power role.

Vote Crazy

Still think only a maf would know that.

Night start is good for town IMO (sucks for first killed) since we start with odd numbers. I hate that normal minis start with even numbers for simple math reasons.

With 2 watchers, mafia also runs a very high risk of getting caught on n1.

Also, Crazy voted for this setup in the Open Setup nomination thread where it is shown as a night start (see my quote of Adel). Anybody who read that thread (and especially anybody who voted for it) would know it was a night start. Knowing Crazy a little bit (more from Epic Mafia than games here), I know he is rather particular about setups.

He could be scum, but that reason is a poor one.

[Panda Stomper 85]

is it open?

[camn]

That sucks about KMD... I was looking forward to another game with you! Maybe I'll try your thing....

@Bionic, You seem to be defending Crazy. Are you?
Also.. why such concern about the setup? How does it help to know if it has been played before? And who designed it...?

@Panda... what are you even talking about?

@ Xtoxm.. I think I agree.

Vote Crazy

How

were

you so crackerjack regarding the night start? Our Mod forgot, yet you remembered.. Is it what bionic said? Or do you have some other explanation?

[bionicchop2]

@Bionic, You seem to be defending Crazy. Are you?

Yes, I am defending Crazy from this particular argument. I make it a habit to counter any poor argument against any player. Even if I find the player being attacked to be scummy, I will point out flawed arguments against them.

The argument that mafia would know the game is a night start while town would not is extremely flawed. All role PMs are posted at the opening of the game and none indicate the game would be a night start.

Also.. why such concern about the setup? How does it help to know if it has been played before? And who designed it...?

The setup of open games is very critical and understanding them is very important. Who designed it wasn't particularly important except when I didn't know how Crazy would have assumed it was night start. I thought maybe he designed the game setup. I found out he didn't, so I figured I may as well post that here along with the other information I found (Crazy voted for the setup shortly after the idea was posted).

Knowing if it has been played before would give me a game to read. By reading a game of the same setup, I would be able to see how early certain roles claimed and what methods were most effective in finding scum. With watchers, you can have roles claim and then bait the scum into killing them:

example - role cop claims and watchers watch (better if 2 watchers exist). If the RC lives, the watchers know the other watcher. If the RC dies, the watchers know 1 scum + the other watcher. If the RC dies, you can then do a 'watcher claim' where every player says 2 people who visited the dead player (this is so scum can't fake to be a watcher).

Now, I don't know how effective such an approach might be, which is why I wanted to read any previous games of this setup.

[Panda Stomper 85]

Sorry, their was a glitch on the site for me, that reply wasn't supposed to even happen. Anyways, why are we voting for crazy?

[camn]

Anyways, why are we voting for crazy?

I think Xtoxm's reasons are pretty clear.

I'm

voting to see if Crazy says anything interesting regarding X's accusations. But Bionic is doing all the work for him
Bionic has some pretty good explanations, though...

And the other one is a random vote.

Last I checked,

You

weren't actually voting for him.. . so I am assuming you didn't really mean "we". . .

[icemanE]

Personally I don't see what's wrong with a RV stage in an open setup - I also don't see the argument against Crazy as valid.

[orangepenguin]

Personally I don't see what's wrong with a RV stage in an open setup - I also don't see the argument against Crazy as valid.

I don't see what's wrong with random voting either. I don't see how Crazy knowing that it's a night start is a valid case, because he obviously knew about the set up beforehand, if he voted for it in the set-up thread.

[bionicchop2]

Personally I don't see what's wrong with a RV stage in an open setup

Nothing is wrong with it. I thought the night start gave us the jump start we needed plus there was some random voting prior to the night actually starting. Add to that Xtoxm had already moved into a real vote before the night started and it seems silly to revert to random. Random is only a filler until something better comes along to discuss. There is no reason IMO to prolong the stage if the game has naturally progressed into actual game play.

[camn]

I love Random voting

And I tend to agree withyou regarding the night-start case.

BUT, i wish CRAZY could have told us how he knew. . .

[ortolan]

Someone said he read it in the sign-ups thread. Is that correct?

[ortolan]

camn: what was the confirmation gambit and does it have possibly have any relevance to the fact that Kmd was nightkilled?

[camn]

It was a joke.

Last game, KMD made up this thing he called the "KMD Gambit" to catch scum.
It never caught any scum...
My position was that it was flawed.. since it only caught me, as town.
But nobody thought much of it. It may have lost the game for us, though it was more likely our bad play.

And I can't think how it would relate.
Unless Zazier is here..... they had a wager about it

OR, maybe its scum trying to bait us into a WIFOM-driven retaliation nightkill discussion...
Like killing Xtoxm in order to build a case against Crazy. (which is what

I

would have done!)

[afatchic]

Just an idea here, but the RVS is supposed to be random, so yeah everyone voting the same person defeats the idea. lol

[camn]

As far as I can tell, You are the only person with a RV up.

[StrangerCoug]

Once again,

vote: Panda Stomper 85

until he tells me what happened to Panda Stompers 1 through 84.

[orangepenguin]

Once again,

vote: Panda Stomper 85

until he tells me what happened to Panda Stompers 1 through 84.

I'm more worried about where the first bio is..

vote:bionocchi2

[Kmd4390]

that was fast....

go town.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Once again,

vote: Panda Stomper 85

until he tells me what happened to Panda Stompers 1 through 84.

This argument has my full support.

vote: Panda Stomper 85

Also,

FOS: orangepenguin

for making light of this serious line of questioning.

[Panda Stomper 85]

My fellow Panda Stompers are all well, they just work in different sections of the world R.I.P Pandas Stomper 65, who died in a stomping accident. He stomped on a land mine ;(