In post 81, Firebringer wrote:andante would totally be the person scum me would be trying to make leader here btw. So im looking at Loki with sus right now
Why is it sus to heal my most confident tr?
Do you have a better criteria for whom should be healed?
i said it was sus because it was andante. I am not susing you for voting someone town leader when ur criteria is "I town read them" though i think that is pretty low quality reasoning to vote for someone as townleader but im not gonna argue a playstyle/theory w/e with u.
In post 83, Loki Dokie wrote:I also find it curious that you think that scum would be most likely to heal her anyway. Did you read Will you be my Neighbour? She had pretty impressive reads in that.
Never said she has bad reads. Said i would be going to try pocketing her if i was scum so i would push her for leader. Also andante from my memory gets pushed alot for shitty reasons when she is town so its safe to white knight her usually as scum.
But thats like 6 months to year old meta we talking here. I am out of the loop on the latest trends.
Well fair enough but I think we won that game in large part to her reads, so ejjnamii’s characterization of Andante as some kind of uberemotional tunnelled townie isn’t my experience of her townplay, You can be emotional and still have good reads.
At any rate, I like your analysis, so I probably shouldn’t be too quick to tl everyone healing her.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
If we are concerned about Andante being leader (I haven't played with her before) that is fair enough and we can think about "leader-ing" someone else, but FWIW I think I agree with Loki's idea of trying to heal town. After all, one of the only pieces of moderator-confirmed information we have is that a town leader should be good for the town. Doing anything other than healing townreads seems equal to acting on the basis of setup speculation, and IMO would require slightly stronger justification than what we've seen so far. (P-EDIT: since I've started writing this I see this has been discussed and people mostly seem to agree with me, but eh, not gonna throw away what I've already written.)
Also, if we are concerned about putting too much power in the hands of one person there might be ways to mitigate that? For example, we could ask whoever we elect as leader to pre-commit to keeping other's votes into account. For example, if 'leader' = dayvig, we can ask them to just shoot a consensus elim. If 'leader' = can determine the pool of elims on the next day, we can ask them to put people we all suspect in the elim pool, and so on. Of course, this may not work if the leader is some sort of night-acting role.
@ejjinami
64 - if later you think of anything I can do to make your experience of playing with me better let me know, regardless of my alignment I'd like you to have a good experience in this game. But it's also ok if I just ping you and you can't explain why.
I see some discussion of my playstyle. While I'm not sure it's amazing for gamestate to get hung up on the three posts I've made so far, I also feel the urge to explain myself, so gonna stick it in a spoiler tag:
Spoiler: spoiler
In post 67, Gamma Emerald wrote:she seems to be showing similar practice to me in her read formation, in a way that make me feel like she's town
I tend to also form reads pretty spontaneously as town, and the justification can be rather slim
In post 74, Loki Dokie wrote:
[...]
Oh I missed that. Why are you getting bad vibes from them?
Frankly, probably just their playstyle(TLDR: possibly NAI)
The way they gave someone a town-read and asked “how likely they are to deceive her as scum” – pinged me as slightly lamist. The question makes little sense so early in the game, especially near a town-read based on 1 post
I’m not exactly treating it seriously tho
It could very easily be a playstyle clash
Or just a question to get the game started
tbh I feel kinda stupid even talking about it that much
just ignore it, I'll get stronger reads eventually
I think I rely on tone a little more than most players, so I suppose it can feel like my reads are out of nowhere to an outside observer. My internal experience is nothing like that: I can spend a fairly long time re-reading posts, trying to gauge tone, and generally agonising over which way the balance of evidence points.
The "how likely are you to deceive me as scum" question is partly an attempt to get the game started, yeah. Sometimes I like to come off slightly stronger than warranted to see how people respond.
Also, UNVOTE: , things are getting serious and I'm not ready for a serious heal yet.
Dramatic? They sound genuine and that’s why I’m so confident she’s town here.
what I meant was- they misunderstood my posts in pretty silly ways
I got the feeling that they read my posts, got slighty triggered and then overwhelmed with anger when they started writing and describing how scummy and rude I am. As if just writing that kept fueling their anger, causing them to notice new and new arguments for how I'm being bad (which actually were based on pretty simple misunderstandings- I don't think it should be considered scummy by a person who's emotionally sober)
I was asking if it's normal for town!Andante to get so lost in their feelings and lose track of reality
or like... if it's just normal for them to tunnel
sorry if I'm being rude again, I don't know how to describe it otherwhise
In post 100, Loki Dokie wrote:
ejjnamii’s characterization of Andante as some kind of uberemotional tunnelled townie isn’t my experience of her townplay, You can be emotional and still have good reads.
thank you for this response btw
I guess I might be the one getting overly emotional now
I laughed way too hard at that ISO of mine linked... like wow... hahaha. wow, thank you for the laugh Loki!! wow.. a whole year ago..
Umm at this very second, I'd probably heal ejjinami and NotAHecticAlt, I feel a little better about ejjinami over NotAHecticAlt
and 102 has me against healing Aisa, it's a lot of repeating what I initially said, so gut is telling me it's scum trying to look towny, like she acknowledges "since I've started writing this I see this has been discussed and people mostly seem to agree with me, but eh, not gonna throw away what I've already written." but like, it was like 2 hours ago I said this.. ehhh I don't feel great about Aisa.. this post screams "I'm maf!! make me leader!!"
In post 102, Aisa wrote:
Also, if we are concerned about putting too much power in the hands of one person there might be ways to mitigate that? For example, we could ask whoever we elect as leader to pre-commit to keeping other's votes into account. For example, if 'leader' = dayvig, we can ask them to just shoot a consensus elim. If 'leader' = can determine the pool of elims on the next day, we can ask them to put people we all suspect in the elim pool, and so on. Of course, this may not work if the leader is some sort of night-acting role.
@ejjinami
64 - if later you think of anything I can do to make your experience of playing with me better let me know, regardless of my alignment I'd like you to have a good experience in this game. But it's also ok if I just ping you and you can't explain why.
Dramatic? They sound genuine and that’s why I’m so confident she’s town here.
what I meant was- they misunderstood my posts in pretty silly ways
I got the feeling that they read my posts, got slighty triggered and then overwhelmed with anger when they started writing and describing how scummy and rude I am. As if just writing that kept fueling their anger, causing them to notice new and new arguments for how I'm being bad (which actually were based on pretty simple misunderstandings- I don't think it should be considered scummy by a person who's emotionally sober)
I was asking if it's normal for town!Andante to get so lost in their feelings and lose track of reality
or like... if it's just normal for them to tunnel
sorry if I'm being rude again, I don't know how to describe it otherwhise
I mean, I've been told my reads are trash, in most games I play, so I took what you said as like this direct attack to me, like "We can't trust andante!! never trust her" like, idk you, I assume you're some alt, yeah. sorry we got off on the wrong foot. nice to meet you!
> I was asking if it's normal for town!Andante to get so lost in their feelings and lose track of reality
I've been told yes. and I've been told I'm more inclined to sus people that are sus of me.
In post 105, Andante wrote:I laughed way too hard at that ISO of mine linked... like wow... hahaha. wow, thank you for the laugh Loki!! wow.. a whole year ago..
Umm at this very second, I'd probably heal ejjinami and NotAHecticAlt, I feel a little better about ejjinami over NotAHecticAlt
and 102 has me against healing Aisa, it's a lot of repeating what I initially said, so gut is telling me it's scum trying to look towny, like she acknowledges "since I've started writing this I see this has been discussed and people mostly seem to agree with me, but eh, not gonna throw away what I've already written." but like, it was like 2 hours ago I said this.. ehhh I don't feel great about Aisa.. this post screams "I'm maf!! make me leader!!"
In post 105, Andante wrote:I laughed way too hard at that ISO of mine linked... like wow... hahaha. wow, thank you for the laugh Loki!! wow.. a whole year ago..
Umm at this very second, I'd probably heal ejjinami and NotAHecticAlt, I feel a little better about ejjinami over NotAHecticAlt
and 102 has me against healing Aisa, it's a lot of repeating what I initially said, so gut is telling me it's scum trying to look towny, like she acknowledges "since I've started writing this I see this has been discussed and people mostly seem to agree with me, but eh, not gonna throw away what I've already written." but like, it was like 2 hours ago I said this.. ehhh I don't feel great about Aisa.. this post screams "I'm maf!! make me leader!!"
how would you rate your scum-read accuracy then?
uhh depends on the game, I wanna say it'll be higher than average this game but we shall see
Dramatic? They sound genuine and that’s why I’m so confident she’s town here.
what I meant was- they misunderstood my posts in pretty silly ways
I got the feeling that they read my posts, got slighty triggered and then overwhelmed with anger when they started writing and describing how scummy and rude I am. As if just writing that kept fueling their anger, causing them to notice new and new arguments for how I'm being bad (which actually were based on pretty simple misunderstandings- I don't think it should be considered scummy by a person who's emotionally sober)
I was asking if it's normal for town!Andante to get so lost in their feelings and lose track of reality
or like... if it's just normal for them to tunnel
sorry if I'm being rude again, I don't know how to describe it otherwhise
Like I don’t understand your point? You’re essentially complaining about how emotional, triggered and tunnelled she is but posts like this one are clearly going to provoke her further.
If you want her to stop the behaviour you apparently view as so egregious, than what you’re doing here seems counterintuitive.
Like if you stop freaking out at her, I think the problem - if they’re indeed is one - will cease to exist. Iow, you’re escalating the the very thing you’re complaining about with posts like this one. A post like this, if it were directed to me, would very likely cause me to get emotional.
In post 105, Andante wrote:I laughed way too hard at that ISO of mine linked... like wow... hahaha. wow, thank you for the laugh Loki!! wow.. a whole year ago..
Umm at this very second, I'd probably heal ejjinami and NotAHecticAlt, I feel a little better about ejjinami over NotAHecticAlt
and 102 has me against healing Aisa, it's a lot of repeating what I initially said, so gut is telling me it's scum trying to look towny, like she acknowledges "since I've started writing this I see this has been discussed and people mostly seem to agree with me, but eh, not gonna throw away what I've already written." but like, it was like 2 hours ago I said this.. ehhh I don't feel great about Aisa.. this post screams "I'm maf!! make me leader!!"
"Since I've started writing this I see this has been discussed and people mostly seem to agree with me" was shorthand for "I skimmed some of the discussion. On a more careful reread people have already made these points, and it's also been discussed more since I started writing this".
I realise this sort of posting is anti-town and it would make life better if my posting were accurate the first time around. What can I say, eh, digesting posts fully is hard and the thread is busy right now.
It's ok.. I am a changed andante!! can't be provoked. can't be pocketed. I have learned that was not a personal attack. so thus we move on. we find the 3 terminators, make town the leaders, and we call it a day!
In post 107, Andante wrote:
I mean, I've been told my reads are trash, in most games I play, so I took what you said as like this direct attack to me, like "We can't trust andante!! never trust her" like, idk you, I assume you're some alt, yeah. sorry we got off on the wrong foot. nice to meet you!
> I was asking if it's normal for town!Andante to get so lost in their feelings and lose track of reality
I've been told yes. and I've been told I'm more inclined to sus people that are sus of me.
yeah sorry as well, didn't mean that either
I still struggle with phrasing my posts in an easily understandable way... I screw up badly from time to time
I'm not an alt btw XD I haven't played here for about a year tho so I know no one here anyway
with that let me seriously dip
I feel emotionally burned out despite having done literally nothing lol
p.edit....... oor not
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Loki Dokie wrote:
Like I don’t understand your point? You’re essentially complaining about how emotional, triggered and tunnelled she is but posts like this one are clearly going to provoke her further.
If you want her to stop the behaviour you apparently view as so egregious, than what you’re doing here seems counterintuitive.
Like if you stop freaking out at her, I think the problem - if they’re indeed is one - will cease to exist. Iow, you’re escalating the the very thing you’re complaining about with posts like this one. A post like this, if it were directed to me, would very likely cause me to get emotional.
...I won't deny, my actions were illogical
Correct me if I'm wrong tho- you seem convinced that it's natural for the quarrel to stop once I stopped being dramatic. You're treating me as town
If you town-read BOTH me and andante, why were you so quiet when we fought lmao?
It's ok.. I am a changed andante!! can't be provoked. can't be pocketed. I have learned that was not a personal attack. so thus we move on. we find the 3 terminators, make town the leaders, and we call it a day!
In post 111, Aisa wrote:eh, digesting posts fully is hard and the thread is busy right now.
I mean, isn't a busy thread good for reads?
It can be. It's not good for reads if there's so much content that people struggle to digest it. Remember I brought up the busy-ness to justify why I wrote a post that essentially repeated your point.
Incidentally I'd also like posting to slow down a bit. On that note, I will retreat into a cave until tomorrow so I can stop playing into the hyperposting. And also because I'm busy the rest of the evening.
By the way, Andante's posts are coming in quickly and they seem fairly natural and I have a townlean on her.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
In post 102, Aisa wrote:If we are concerned about Andante being leader (I haven't played with her before) that is fair enough and we can think about "leader-ing" someone else, but FWIW I think I agree with Loki's idea of trying to heal town. After all, one of the only pieces of moderator-confirmed information we have is that a town leader should be good for the town. Doing anything other than healing townreads seems equal to acting on the basis of setup speculation, and IMO would require slightly stronger justification than what we've seen so far. (P-EDIT: since I've started writing this I see this has been discussed and people mostly seem to agree with me, but eh, not gonna throw away what I've already written.)
Also, if we are concerned about putting too much power in the hands of one person there might be ways to mitigate that? For example, we could ask whoever we elect as leader to pre-commit to keeping other's votes into account. For example, if 'leader' = dayvig, we can ask them to just shoot a consensus elim. If 'leader' = can determine the pool of elims on the next day, we can ask them to put people we all suspect in the elim pool, and so on. Of course, this may not work if the leader is some sort of night-acting role.
@ejjinami
64 - if later you think of anything I can do to make your experience of playing with me better let me know, regardless of my alignment I'd like you to have a good experience in this game. But it's also ok if I just ping you and you can't explain why.
I see some discussion of my playstyle. While I'm not sure it's amazing for gamestate to get hung up on the three posts I've made so far, I also feel the urge to explain myself, so gonna stick it in a spoiler tag:
Spoiler: spoiler
In post 67, Gamma Emerald wrote:she seems to be showing similar practice to me in her read formation, in a way that make me feel like she's town
I tend to also form reads pretty spontaneously as town, and the justification can be rather slim
In post 74, Loki Dokie wrote:
[...]
Oh I missed that. Why are you getting bad vibes from them?
Frankly, probably just their playstyle(TLDR: possibly NAI)
The way they gave someone a town-read and asked “how likely they are to deceive her as scum” – pinged me as slightly lamist. The question makes little sense so early in the game, especially near a town-read based on 1 post
I’m not exactly treating it seriously tho
It could very easily be a playstyle clash
Or just a question to get the game started
tbh I feel kinda stupid even talking about it that much
just ignore it, I'll get stronger reads eventually
I think I rely on tone a little more than most players, so I suppose it can feel like my reads are out of nowhere to an outside observer. My internal experience is nothing like that: I can spend a fairly long time re-reading posts, trying to gauge tone, and generally agonising over which way the balance of evidence points.
The "how likely are you to deceive me as scum" question is partly an attempt to get the game started, yeah. Sometimes I like to come off slightly stronger than warranted to see how people respond.
Also, UNVOTE: , things are getting serious and I'm not ready for a serious heal yet.
this is towny af
my current leader pool is:
[myself, Aisa, Andante, Penguin]
"I hope one day I can openly play as wolfy as Pooky and get zero pressure for it grumble grumble."
-MariaR
"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."
Loki's interest in being on Andante's good side, knowing how Andante tends to play, comes off as a scum pocket in the sense that they're trying to look good by giving andante leader ? this is like strictly a preflip off seeing andante as town and noticing how loki is treating Andante, as matter of fact town who has good reads and not separate from that, if that makes sense.
ejj feels LAMISTy in like a subtle way too
so rn like preliminary scumpool is [FB/ejj/Loki] for independent reasons.
but we shall see
