Open 856: Deputy cultists (Game over)

[Nathann]

What makes you think it was likely that a Vengeful would claim today?

The fact that there was a decent amount of talk about it and agreement that Vengefuls should be claiming.

Can you expand on the benefits for Cult claiming Vengeful first?

We can agree that Cult wants at least one Vengeful claim, since otherwise the Town gets two confirmed Townies that are never getting eliminated, and that even if Culted, won't be able to use their Vengeful ability due to being confirmed not Cult Leader.

So the question is, should the fakeclaiming Cultist claim first?

One obvious advantage of not going first is knowing who you will be up against. However, Jacket was decently Townread at the time of his claim, which doesn't benefit him much as a non-fakeclaiming Prime Cultist (they want to be eliminated, after all), but will massively benefit him in winning the CC battles.

People are naturally inclined to Townread the first person to do it. Especially if they do it in the name of ~ generating content ~. Which is important when you think about what Cult wants with the CC's -- they don't want to be eliminated first. While it's still a positive, it confirms the other two people as Town. So it would benefit the Cult to get the Vengefuls eliminated first, hopefully get them to shoot one another. Then you get the confirmed Townies out of the game, and the Town is forced to either kill the outed Cultist to make sure he's not the Cult Leader, or just ignore him for the rest of the game and pray he isn't.

This is a bit longer way to say "Cult wants to win the CC's, and claiming first gets them Townread".

Oh, and I would kind of disagree with "it wasn't a misdirect". If the Town agrees to be killing within the claims, then it absolutely is a misdirect, because they'll be focused on discussing which non-Cult-Leader player to kill. And Town is likely to do that, because it's natural for Townies to want to kill scum, even if they're consciously aware they shouldn't be killing non-Leader Cult. And there's always that tiny possibility that the Cult Leader did claim.

[Cat.Jpeg]

Sorry for disappearing, I will vote whoever to avoid no-elim. I dont really want to vote bella though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cat, talk to me about where you're at.

Specifically within the Vengeful claims and who you think CL is

[Cat.Jpeg]

I'm still reading very slowly, I would like to elim nathaan or RH9 and then if we are wrong he should venge one of the other claims (although nathaan said he wouldnt do that). If we do end up killing both vengefuls it will be interesting to see how the confirmed cultist will act. And we can kill them near the end of the game if we can't find CL anywhere else. I think nathaan is probably the cultist out of the 3.

[RH9]

Sorry for disappearing, I will vote whoever to avoid no-elim. I dont really want to vote bella though.

There's plurality.
There will be no no-elim at deadline.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If we kill two vengefuls we lose two town...

We won't be able to kill cultist because they can recruit and we just lose on majority. Am I missing something here?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm down to elim Cat

[furtiveglance]

I'm down to elim Cat

Then let's do it. I'd like to win day 1. As for Nathann/Jacket, I think Nathann offering to be your doublevoter is actually town.

[Cat.Jpeg]

What a biglash from other cults who know their leader claimed Vengeful and not doing anything to push someone else.

It's not like it's smart thing to do yeah?...

Idk, we leaning to lim in Vengefuls for now.

If CL among them, what cult doing? They supposed to do something to not lose. Unless they lurkfucks, but i am not cultist.

Actually I agree with this. I don't think CL is in the claims because otherwise there would be more of a push to elim outside of them. I still dont mind voting out RH9 or Nathaan.
Is killing town or prime cultist better? I guess it depends on circumstance but you have Korina saying prime cultist is better because it will make someone change behaviour when they get recruited but also killing town means cult gets no more recruits.
I dont want to vote within vengeful claims if we kill a prime cultist today because one of them could use venge against us.

[Cat.Jpeg]

I'm down to elim Cat

I'm down to elim Cat

Then let's do it. I'd like to win day 1. As for Nathann/Jacket, I think Nathann offering to be your doublevoter is actually town.

ugh

[Cat.Jpeg]

Killing cultists outside of the prime ones is a waste because they can’t recruit off of that death?

Bruh. I thought they got it off of any non CL cult death. So i guess killing primes is better.

[Cat.Jpeg]

VOTE: Cat.Jpeg
I feel like she's likely to be Cult.
254 still doesn't sit right.
It feels like she wants to get a Vengeful or Prime Cultist limmed.

Voting in the vengeful claims means that a vengeful or prime cultist will get elimmed, thats just how that works. Except if a CL is elimmed but that's a good thing.

[Cat.Jpeg]

I don't want to die so soon this game but I also don't know if elimming bella is in towns interest if im likely gonna be elimmed tomorrow anyway. I guess bella could be CL, sure.
VOTE: Bella
I'll be back again briefly before the deadline.

[RH9]

VOTE: Cat.Jpeg
I feel like she's likely to be Cult.
254 still doesn't sit right.
It feels like she wants to get a Vengeful or Prime Cultist limmed.

Voting in the vengeful claims means that a vengeful or prime cultist will get elimmed, thats just how that works. Except if a CL is elimmed but that's a good thing.

I see.
By the way, regarding 460, why is killing Primes better than killing a recruit?
They can recruit more if a Prime is killed but not if a recruit is.

[Enchant]

Actually Titus could be not wrong choice. But could we pile up for 5 hours?

[Enchant]

Unless we No-Lim, Cult always designed to have no more than 3 members.

It means we can afford to 4 town deaths.

[Cat.Jpeg]

VOTE: Cat.Jpeg
I feel like she's likely to be Cult.
254 still doesn't sit right.
It feels like she wants to get a Vengeful or Prime Cultist limmed.

Voting in the vengeful claims means that a vengeful or prime cultist will get elimmed, thats just how that works. Except if a CL is elimmed but that's a good thing.

I see.
By the way, regarding 460, why is killing Primes better than killing a recruit?
They can recruit more if a Prime is killed but not if a recruit is.

I meant killing a prime is better than killing a normal townie. Because killing a prime then a recruit could lead to only having 2 cult and buying us more days and elims.

[Enchant]

CULT.
CAN'T.
RECRUIT.
WITHOUT.
PRIME CULTS.
DEATH.
OR.
NO ELIM.

READ.
MOD.
POSTS.

[Cat.Jpeg]

yea, i get that

[Beat]

Note: if a majority is not reaced by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be eliminated. If multiple wagons are tied for the most votes one will be randomly chosen.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

4 hours or so left to go?

4 votes on Bella
2 on Cat

They're the leading wagons I think

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't want to die so soon this game but I also don't know if elimming bella is in towns interest if im likely gonna be elimmed tomorrow anyway. I guess bella could be CL, sure.
VOTE: Bella
I'll be back again briefly before the deadline.

Huh... That's some turnaround

[Beat]

@beat, that just seems like a lot of associations before a flip. Or that you've just got through three Isos and added a quote whenever we mention each others name -;there's no analysis of what's happening. Cats has just said they town read me and Nathann has told me the pro town thing to do is vote him! Also, even though I'm confused as to why Nathann being town is controversial, would scum (especially cl!Bella) just ride on others' scum read of him? If I'm cult and he's town, great - he is dead and might venge another town! If he's cult, cult get another recruit!

I'll take another look at cat.

P-edit maybe not.

Theres some evidence of a coordinated effort to convince town to not do the mechanically optimal play.

Also if I am wrong it ends with one miselim and I can reevaluate.

Unless you want to champion a counter wagon?

[Beat]

Theres a decent chance cat could be CL over bella.

[Beat]

I think I'll stay on bella though.