Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[VP Baltar]

*if

[PenguinPower]

but...she says nice things about me

[PenguinPower]

you could join on vulture and make it an even bigger wagon

[Andante]

Penguin you're the best!!!!
VOTE: Vulture

I'll help make an actual wagon

[Andante]

cause Vulture kinda started sliding after doing NOTHING since I've called them town

[Vulture]

Sorry. I have no energy for playing games lately and it’s kind of left me here like well I joined so I have to play but I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about this.

Annoying to spoon feed me to get interaction etc but my heart really isn’t in it atm.

[VP Baltar]

but...she says nice things about me

That's how you know she is tricksy

[Andante]

Penguin!!! Your plan worked!! we got Vulture here!!! best wagon choice!! Genius!!! Best Penguin!!! Woooo

[Vulture]

I kind of just felt obligated to post...

[VP Baltar]

I kind of just felt obligated to post...

Do you think this is a town or scum driven wagon on you?

[Something_Smart]

Sorry. I have no energy for playing games lately and it’s kind of left me here like well I joined so I have to play but I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about this.

Annoying to spoon feed me to get interaction etc but my heart really isn’t in it atm.

If you want something to look at, I would like a second opinion on the interaction starting here. Basically, Ari complains that I'm hard to read, and then I make several attempts to start a dialogue with her by interjecting in her conversation with Datisi (390 and 402), and she completely ignores me. It gave me the impression that she was just grandstanding and didn't really care about reading me.

[Aristeia]

Do you think you're easy to read?

Do you have an example of someone who successfully reads you correctly across multiple games?

I am happy to look at the data and their technique it would be instructive for me.

[VP Baltar]

Decided to reread Andante's iso to pull some of the pattern I'm seeing in the play that's bugging me. I don't think this is 100% because it's very hard to read what is real aloofness from andante, and what's bad faith. I wouldn't even be on this so much if it didn't seem to keep happening throughout the game. Like I said, I think people give her a lot of refuge in absurdity range because of how she plays as either alignment, but when a pattern emerges it is concerning to me and I think an andante wagon is better than what I've seen so far this game.

Bad faith interactions:

andante town
penguin town
fire town
i am very good at this game

hmmm I too can call everyone town... but someone must be mafia

UNVOTE:

hmm ok now andante feels more normal

what is "normal" for andante? I would LOVE to hear this one lol like, cause I was just having fun in RVS (the phase I HATE) that made me maf?

"how dare there be no reads thus far!!!"

Nobody was scum reading her for this reason. This is a bad faith interpretation of people questioning her.

VOTE: hutmeil
they seem a little off, like their “focus” upon entering doesn’t seem to be to actually sort anyone, and just asked a few questions where like you could give any answer and they probably wouldn’t even follow up? idk, they just don’t feel like town to me, and they’re probably my strong “lead” for where to go to find maf, could just be I SR their stuff cause there’s not a lot, but I genuinely don’t like what we have so far from hut

Very minor effort, as I've shown, reveals that hut is fairly new to mafia. Andante's pressure here makes no effort to sort out experience level.

Like Gamma went "I have to catch up" quoted a handful of things, and that was it. no "concluding thoughts" or whatever

I thought gamma's catch up posts were fine. Nothing spectacular, but not scum range or anything. Seems like Andante is fishing for easy complaints here.

Tbh I'm like, a little bit surprised that VP hasn't attacked me back yet, as town or as scum. I think it surprises me a little more if he's town; I kind of expected to be lumped in as the third in his Andante/Datisi/??? solve with how I've acted toward those slots. The way he's been acting toward my slot feels maybe scum-indicative; he's engaging with me some but also kind of ignoring substantive engagement with me. I don't think it's super indicative of anything up to this point but I'm interested to see how it plays out. I'm by no means like sold on VP scum or anything.

Why would I just attack you back?

While I do see you lining up with Datisi, I don't see you lining up with andante necessarily (despite that weird sort of exchange you two had), and she is my lead pick for scum here so far. What substantive things would you like to engage on? I didn't get a lot from your posts toward me.


pedit - @ari, I don't think you actually have a terrible record of reading me at this point? Didn't you correctly townread me our last few games?

LOL "I don't

think

implosion is scum with Andante"
Right.. so... we haven't ruled out implosion completely as my scum partner? cause scum partners start the game like we did? I'm honored you think my scum game is this amazing thing, but it's really not lol

Adding emphasis that did not exist in what I was saying to mud sling me as tinfoiling or some such shit.

Misreading game state:

UNVOTE:
also, implosion is picking up votes too quickly, I'm scared of like limming whoever so fast

- yeah fire seems maffy

I'm scared of a quickhammer...

it takes 7 votes to elim

you're the 3rd vote

why are you scared of someone quickhammering at this point? you did the same with implosion on 3 votes

3 votes is a scary thing!!! that's a lot!!!

This whole exchange makes no sense. Since when is andante afraid of speed wagoning people when she's town?

ok I lied, I can't shut up till page 10, so uhh I've gotten used to everyone trying to pocket me or whatever, like, you can't pocket me I'm unpocketable, but what I'm finding so freaking odd right now, why does everyone suddenly SR implosion? like no one was talking about him till I was like "yeah people ignored me thinking he was maf, I still think he's maf" now all yall are like "yeah implosion scummy!!" like what? this is weird...

Very few people were actually scum reading implosion. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

what? why are you saying this like your entrance was terrible or whatever?

it's in response to Datisi's comment that my play felt different

ok well the rest of that statement like still applies though, your play is different cause the player list is familiar.. but your entrance was basically talking to/about me... nonfamiliar person...

speaks for itself. Defensive replies to things that aren't directed at her.

what I like to call "busy work"

and hut did that but worse? hut's stuff was like strictly not really game related lol, like why do you care if I TR or SR Vulture? they don't have lots of posts, so obviously my read there isn't mega strong, like, you want clarification on my VULTURE read? yet I can tr and sr datisi in the same paragraph... and no questions?

Assuming this is the bulk of your reasons. Have you played with hut before? Is their play here outside town range?

I have no idea who hut even is. why is this "assuming this is the bulk of your reasons" like, hut only has like 2 posts... do you want this like 15 page paper on exactly why hut MUST be maf? and even if I knew who hut was, how would that result in me being CONFIDENT they're maf after 2 posts?

VOTE: VP

i agree hut is being explicitly not townie right now,

Is there some hut meta I should know here? What's not town there other than just general not playing the game yet.

Same Q to andante.

have you looked at what hut actually did? do I have to spell it out? the "content" given is not something that helps with reads, it's like "I'm here... look at me!!! I'm doing stuff!!" but like, I didn't like the posts.. I'll say it again. Why does whether I TR or SR Vulture matter to hut? hut only commented on like 3 things. Datisi and Ari knowing each other, my read on vulture, and something else I don't remember. TOWN... reading the game would have actual stuff to comment on

A pair of extremely defensive replies to pretty simple questions. I think this is one of the worst interactions from her in the game.

Tbh I'm like, a little bit surprised that VP hasn't attacked me back yet, as town or as scum. I think it surprises me a little more if he's town; I kind of expected to be lumped in as the third in his Andante/Datisi/??? solve with how I've acted toward those slots. The way he's been acting toward my slot feels maybe scum-indicative; he's engaging with me some but also kind of ignoring substantive engagement with me. I don't think it's super indicative of anything up to this point but I'm interested to see how it plays out. I'm by no means like sold on VP scum or anything.

Why would I just attack you back?

While I do see you lining up with Datisi, I don't see you lining up with andante necessarily (despite that weird sort of exchange you two had), and she is my lead pick for scum here so far. What substantive things would you like to engage on? I didn't get a lot from your posts toward me.


pedit - @ari, I don't think you actually have a terrible record of reading me at this point? Didn't you correctly townread me our last few games?

LOL "I don't

think

implosion is scum with Andante"
Right.. so... we haven't ruled out implosion completely as my scum partner? cause scum partners start the game like we did? I'm honored you think my scum game is this amazing thing, but it's really not lol

that's your emphasis not mine.

As far as quality of your scum game, wasn't it just in KTaNE that a bunch of people were going on about how your tone is similar between town and scum and that's not alignment indicative for you. I think it might have been Bell who said the best way to read you is to look at who you are pushing and why.

ok whatever, so if we're going with this, THE GAME IS STILL VERY MUCH IN RVS RIGHT NOW!!! we don't have actual content right now, my "amazing scum game" the EM people know about and refer to is literally from 2017-2018,

like, this is probably *mostly* representative of my scum game on MS:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88375

and this is what I would say my *best* scum game on MS is
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88224

So like, can you stop referring to "meta" that someone else once said once upon a time? Use your game with me, and reach your own conclusions. if you want to keep pushing meta reasons that aren't even your meta, I'll just vote you out here no brakes and call it a day. It's just freaking annoying hearing all this "WELL... META!!" like, yes... I was conf maf, and town genuinely believed I was town and the invest was lying... but that was like 5 years ago... so yeah, Fish in the sea is the closest you're getting for my "awesome maf skills"

More defensiveness and going on about her meta when I wasn't ever talking about her meta ... at all. I was asking if she had experience playing with hut I wasn't aware of. This is such an overexaggerate response to something that doesn't seem town to me because town would not misinterpret what I was saying this badly. They would have just read the question and responded because it wasn't accusatory in the slightest. This reads like a guilty conscience response.

[VP Baltar]

[double post removed for readability - mod]

[VP Baltar]

of course the one time I wall this game it double posts. Sorry!

[Andante]

Decided to reread Andante's iso

I really don't think that's the best use of your time... ummm the only reason someone WOULD read my ISO would be if you're trying to case/tunnel me. I hate to be the "bearer of bad news" but uhhh I'm town fam...

[VP Baltar]

Decided to reread Andante's iso

I really don't think that's the best use of your time... ummm the only reason someone WOULD read my ISO would be if you're trying to case/tunnel me. I hate to be the "bearer of bad news" but uhhh I'm town fam...

I mean, yes I'm casing you. That's because I'm not getting traction when I'm talking about this in real time, so I'm trying to get people to see what I'm seeing.

As far as tunneling, far from it. I certainly have my doubts I'm right. But, do you think it's unreasonable for me to be reading these examples I've provided in a negative light?

[VP Baltar]

I TR you Vulture!!

Also, was this genuine when you said it? If so, what changed for you?

[Andante]

I think your main issue with me, is that you're assuming every single line I say is 100% serious.. like the "bad faith" in 34.. that was me joking... post number 34... am I not allowed to joke? like, am I supposed to respond to this "case" cause... it really seems boring to me... if you're taking every little thing I say, as something that's dead serious...

[Gamma Emerald]

I thought gamma's catch up posts were fine. Nothing spectacular, but not scum range or anything. Seems like Andante is fishing for easy complaints here.

I did kinda make a scene about not being fit to read and then did so, so I think andante thought I'd made a recovery. I hadn't, I just pushed the mental fog aside to read through the game

[Gamma Emerald]

of course the one time I wall this game it double posts. Sorry!

did you spam-click/spam-tap submit?

[VP Baltar]

I think your main issue with me, is that you're assuming every single line I say is 100% serious.. like the "bad faith" in 34.. that was me joking... post number 34... am I not allowed to joke? like, am I supposed to respond to this "case" cause... it really seems boring to me... if you're taking every little thing I say, as something that's dead serious...

Even if I write that off as a joke (which I don't think it was, I think you were poking to see what happens), there are numerous other examples there that clearly not jokes.

[VP Baltar]

of course the one time I wall this game it double posts. Sorry!

did you spam-click/spam-tap submit?

I'm sure I clicked twice on accident

[Something_Smart]

Do you think you're easy to read?

No.

Do you have an example of someone who successfully reads you correctly across multiple games?

Actually, I'm having a lot of trouble coming up with one. Koba maybe?

My scumgame tends to be inconsistent enough that I'm usually able to avoid letting any one person consistently catch me as scum.

[Something_Smart]

But that doesn't change the fact that you didn't seem to want to make an effort or even interact with me at all.