Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[hutmeil]

Quick check in! Have to read through 12 pages...

[hutmeil]

So (speaking anecdotally because I can’t reference back to it anymore) on Epicmafia this setup was played with few numbers, basically. I wanna say it was like 2/3/2. Masons sometimes outed themselves day one. This lessened the pool that people needed to hunt within, and kind of... guided the kills in a way, in that uh... you’re not analyzing the kills for “was this mason hunting or not” so much as like...

Kills were then made and analyzed as “the clear died expected” or, rarely, “why didn’t the clear die here?” Almost always the masons died but sometimes they didn’t and it was a ? moment.

I immediately thought of it when I saw this game and wanted to throw it out there as a way of tackling the game, or alternatively having only one mason out themselves and be the go-between for themselves and the others, etc.

What happened then? Did Town/Mason win when they outed early?

vulture kinda locktown for being willing to take the hurt that will come from proposing that tbh

hard disagree with that statement

exactly my point

I mean, I'm not saying it automatically makes them scum, but like, I'm not TRing someone going "A MASON SHOULD OUT" like, just wait..play the game like normal, and yeah, cause if we SR a maf, lim the maf, then there's no need to out a mason here, that's just a free kill for maf, make maf actually have to work a bit...

Got confused there, are you TRing or SRing Vulture?

I don't wanna wagon implo. You suss there?

I will always wagon implo

Always? Why?

[hutmeil]

[Response to get post notification...]

[hutmeil]

Also what's with the Aris-Datisi "flirting", any history there?

[hutmeil]

Also what's with the Aris-Datisi "flirting", any history there?

yes

you could say we do that a lot :>

Lol ok!

VOTE: hutmeil
they seem a little off, like their “focus” upon entering doesn’t seem to be to actually sort anyone, and just asked a few questions where like you could give any answer and they probably wouldn’t even follow up? idk, they just don’t feel like town to me, and they’re probably my strong “lead” for where to go to find maf, could just be I SR their stuff cause there’s not a lot, but I genuinely don’t like what we have so far from hut

what I like to call "busy work"

and hut did that but worse? hut's stuff was like strictly not really game related lol, like why do you care if I TR or SR Vulture? they don't have lots of posts, so obviously my read there isn't mega strong, like, you want clarification on my VULTURE read? yet I can tr and sr datisi in the same paragraph... and no questions?

Well, my first few posts were because I got mod prodded lol. Didn't realize game has started. Weekend is family time so ....

Anyway, my questions though quite short are genuine clarifications to what the other slots said. Vulture already responded (thanks!). You didn't directly respond to me, but your recent reads posts indirectly answered my question. And that Datisi-Aris thing hmmm ok

i agree hut is being explicitly not townie right now,

Is there some hut meta I should know here? What's not town there other than just general not playing the game yet.

Same Q to andante.

^ This. So I'm not town because I don't post that much? I understand though, I don't like lurkers too! Speaking of, Malakittens hasn't posted yet has she?

So (speaking anecdotally because I can’t reference back to it anymore) on Epicmafia this setup was played with few numbers, basically. I wanna say it was like 2/3/2. Masons sometimes outed themselves day one. This lessened the pool that people needed to hunt within, and kind of... guided the kills in a way, in that uh... you’re not analyzing the kills for “was this mason hunting or not” so much as like...

Kills were then made and analyzed as “the clear died expected” or, rarely, “why didn’t the clear die here?” Almost always the masons died but sometimes they didn’t and it was a ? moment.

I immediately thought of it when I saw this game and wanted to throw it out there as a way of tackling the game, or alternatively having only one mason out themselves and be the go-between for themselves and the others, etc.

What happened then? Did Town/Mason win when they outed early?

Town won more often than not. The caveat is that the pool is smaller than it would be here, but having town focus in on people who it could reasonably be instead of tunneling masons for a bit was beneficial.

I see. That's an interesting strategy. But if Masons claim early, they'd surely be NKd multiple nights in a row? Isn't that bad for Town?

====================

After going through 21 pages, I see that most of you know each other from previous games. And so far most of the discussions are meta this and meta that. Unfortunately, I don't have that same advantage since it's just my 2nd game on this site.

I find Andante scummy just for the fact that he keeps changing his votes. If I counted correctly, you've already voted 8 times! But then again he seems playful so cannot really read into anything there.

As for Vulture, suggesting to out PR roles this early seems scummy too. But it's a strategy nonetheless. Not sure if that benefits Town/Scum more.

The others I don't really have much read yet.

[hutmeil]

I find Andante scummy just for the fact that he keeps changing his votes. If I counted correctly, you've already voted 8 times! But then again he seems playful so cannot really read into anything there.

As for Vulture, suggesting to out PR roles this early seems scummy too. But it's a strategy nonetheless. Not sure if that benefits Town/Scum more.

"andante is scummy for changing votes but maybe not"

"vulture is scummy for suggesting the strategy but maybe not"

>_>

VOTE: hutmeil

(also andante is a she)

Gotta agree with Datisi here, hutmeil. I'd like to see some takes other than "andante votes a lot" ... which is pretty normal for her.

On Datisi/Ari flirting, that's their shtick. I'd just ignore it since it won't tell you their alignment.

When you were catching up, what did you think about fire?

Also, what's your general mafia experience level since this is only your second game here?

I have to ISO fire to give an answer. I'll do that after work (or during break or something).

As for my experience, I've played like a decade before so I'm just starting to get my feet wet again.

majority of the reason for me even posting that was how the game felt “dead” and guess what? it created like 10 instant posts, got people talking!! mission accomplished!! I love how no one is talking about that, it’s just “andante changed votes 8 times!!” ok? I either move it a lot or like never.. but since hut’s paying specific attention, it might be town indicative tbh, and yeah @hut, I’m a she, it’s not a huge deal, cause I’m used to it, but uhh yeah

Sorry my bad!

[hutmeil]

When you were catching up, what did you think about fire?

See below.

vulture kinda locktown for being willing to take the hurt that will come from proposing that tbh

I don't agree with that proposal since it outs Town PRs. So fire agreeing to this seems scummy to me.

do...do you actually think that i was serious?

i thought 98 felt off and i wanted to see if you had an actual read or not

if you were 0% serious then i think 98 is a little awkward

if you were, like, 5% serious then i could see it fitting, but id want to know where that 5% is coming from

i don't think you're more than 5% serious but the distinction between 0 and 5 is meaningful in this case

it takes 7 votes to elim

you're the 3rd vote

why are you scared of someone quickhammering at this point? you did the same with implosion on 3 votes

I'm not gonna quote all of fire's posts but to me they seem like he's scumhunting, so he goes from scummy back to null for me.

^ This. So I'm not town because I don't post that much? I understand though, I don't like lurkers too! Speaking of, Malakittens hasn't posted yet has she?

idk if i mentioned this or if i decided i didn't care enough, but while we're on the hut subject this is prob the one thing from them that looks more like new-ish scum than new-ish town to me

the like slightly awkward acknowledging that the pattern of play is scummy while redirecting onto someone else

nothing else really stood out to me or looked that different from their approach in their town game

Hmmm it might be scummy but my point remains. Mala hasn't posted anything substantial at all. In fact, per ISO she's posted only once in 33 pages!

========

I don't have your meta abilities, so I'd go with just gut feel. Suggesting to out PRs early plus saying that he/she doesn't have energy to play the game seems like an excuse for scum to lay low.

VOTE: Vulture

[hutmeil]

what's the difference to you between vulture making that excuse, and me making excuses that i have exams, or george and mala straight up not being here?

The difference is vulture suggested the PR out thing.

Congrats on the exam results by the way! Does this mean you're in your early 20s? I feel ancient now lol.

[hutmeil]

thanks! and as per my profile, i am 22

Oh right, didn't see that!

can you make a readslist? doesn't have to be overly long or detailed, i just wanna see the cliffnotes on where you stand on people and why

Okay here goes:

hutmeil

Obviously!

VP Baltar
Andante
implosion
Datisi

^ I believe the above list is scumhunting. That's townish to me. Though I still don't like Andante hop voting a lot.

Something_Smart
fireisredsir
Gamma Emerald
Aristeia

^ Feels towny to me.

PenguinPower
GeorgeBailey
Malakittens

^ Lurking too much.

Vulture

I don't like the PR reveal suggestion.

what's the difference to you between vulture making that excuse, and me making excuses that i have exams, or george and mala straight up not being here?

The difference is vulture suggested the PR out thing.

Congrats on the exam results by the way! Does this mean you're in your early 20s? I feel ancient now lol.

1) You said early on that it was scummy to you that I suggested it. Do you think that I would, as scum, do something that early to the benefit of a team? You also followed up the idea with you being unsure if it benefitted town or scum to do so. Have you defaulted to it benefitting scum now? (Not a fair word but the one my mind used).

To debate whether scum would do such a thing early is sort of WIFOM. If you were scum, you could suggest such a thing thinking that Town would think it's not a scummy move since it's very early D1. So it's better to talk about whether outing PRs would benefit town or not instead. And I have come to the conclusion that it won't benefit town as much. I'm not "metaing" anyone as I don't have the time to do so. I'm just looking at the suggestion and I find that it's not towny. Hence the vote.

2) You think I’m making excuses to lay low, but I’ve also posted after stating my energy levels. Why not engage with my content as it is? Have you read it and do you agree or disagree with my reads, any thoughts?

To be fair, you did post after you said that. I'll have to ISO to give a proper reply.

Like, Hutmeil, the level that you’re engaging the game with right now feels very shallow, I guess?

I don’t think it’s worth going back and forth on whether or not suggesting a strategy like that is scummy because I came into the game aware that it would be received poorly and people would kneejerk react. But I guess you seem to be... stuck on that early thing and basing things around it longer than I think someone would if they had... more to give.

As I've mentioned above, I'm not looking into any meta but just the merits of the suggestion itself. I don't have time to meta since I would have to do so for everyone of you. Shallow, maybe? But it's D1 (not much info), I'm not doing meta so I don't really have much to give. I think the only slot I can meta is Mala. I played with Mala last game. Mala was lurking but she turned out to be Town so Mala!lurker doesn't equate to Mala!scum. But then again, I don't like lurkers. So for me, lurking can be a scum strategy, but given my meta on her, I'll let her go at least for now.

[hutmeil]

So I'm not town because I don't post that much? I understand though, I don't like lurkers too! Speaking of, Malakittens hasn't posted yet has she?

I think the only slot I can meta is Mala. I played with Mala last game. Mala was lurking but she turned out to be Town so Mala!lurker doesn't equate to Mala!scum. But then again, I don't like lurkers. So for me, lurking can be a scum strategy, but given my meta on her, I'll let her go at least for now.

actually these two in combination is p sus as well

For what reason? I can think of a reason but want to know if it's what you're thinking

my reason is that they redirected accusations of lurking onto another slot, Mala, one that they later mentioned they had meta of her lurking as town. bringing her up specifically as the one to redirect on makes it feel to me like they knew that she was likely to continue lurking as town and thus would be an easy push to make

it doesn't really make sense from town bc i don't know why you make the first quote when you already have the knowledge in the second quote

My mala take is just me pointing out that I don't have meta info on anybody else. I guess the timing is wrong, I should have pointed that out in the beginning.

[hutmeil]

@Hutmeil: is meta the only way you would/generally approach games? There’s a level of familiarity that most players have here but equally as you feel I’m claiming to be low energy to lurk, I feel like you’re using meta (or lack thereof) as a shield to avoid engaging the game.

On the contrary. As I've mentioned before, I lack meta info so I'm just basing things on their own merits. To be honest, I feel kinda out of place since I'm the only one new here and you guys have played each other multiple times. So when you guys talk and banter, I just prefer to listen (read).

Also, I guess because of the 10-year hiatus, I'm still getting used to the game again.

But I'll try to engage more often (hopefully!). It's quite hard to come back and see 10-15 new pages to read all at once!

[hutmeil]

@Hutmeil: is meta the only way you would/generally approach games? There’s a level of familiarity that most players have here but equally as you feel I’m claiming to be low energy to lurk, I feel like you’re using meta (or lack thereof) as a shield to avoid engaging the game.

As in: I feel your responses to me regarding 808 and 809 currently hinge on a singular thing that happened early, and the majority of everything else is... I guess to me weird transition into a lot of mentions about meta and you’re not doing it so you like... can’t I guess make content? Won’t?

There’s a fair amount of it but my point ultimately is that if you’ve been following/reading the game you’d have realized there was a lot more you could speak about.

If you are town I understand that this game is hard to engage (I have others too have said as much) but I’d appreciate a deeper dive if you have the time, if only to my replies selfishly.

I'll try to ISO your posts later. Now, I have to sleep, it's 3am here!

[hutmeil]

my advice would be that you don't particularly need to understand every slot in the game, just skim and try to feel for what you think is out of place or scummy - one good idea is worth more than many wrong ones.

I'll keep that in mind! Thanks!

okay, now that i read the hutmeil post in full... it seems misrep-y? like, vulture didn't try to make a meta argument, they tried to get hutmeil to actually think about their own scumread and the validity of it. and to continuous response of "you cannot make me do any meta!!" feels like... sorta a scummy misunderstanding of the original request. like not even trying to understand the argument.

also, hut, i would like to hear reasons why you think those people are townie. and do you have any further thoughts than "these people are scumhunting"?

Which part did I misrep? I do understand his request for me to comment on his posts instead of his early d1 suggestion which I will do later. I'm just commenting now so I won't get buried in another 10 pages of posts.

You asked for "

can you make a readslist? doesn't have to be overly long or detailed, i just wanna see the

cliffnotes

on where you stand on people and

why

" in 806 and that's what I gave you . Do you have a specific slot you want info on?

[hutmeil]

2) You think I’m making excuses to lay low, but I’ve also posted after stating my energy levels. Why not engage with my content as it is? Have you read it and do you agree or disagree with my reads, any thoughts?

Post 882 I said I'll ISO you so here it is. I'm not responding to all your posts though, just the ones I have some thoughts on.

To be frank, I think that the dynamic that Datisi and Aristeia cultivate together (or I guess moreso Ari? This isn't being mean just my pov) kind of blocks out other people at times because they're caught up in their thing at times.

I'd have to agree on this. Nothing against them but I feel the same way. I guess I just have to get used to it in future games.

Do you think this is a town or scum driven wagon on you?

The only vote that I think could come from scum right now is Gamma.

Gamma feels... nyeh? Opportunistic I guess with the vote on me and the interaction with Andante, I think focusing on something like she did is pretty trivial to do and is like, a nitpicky thing that I think you could potentially make people think you believe in without digging deep, you know? I feel like I've seen that sort of commentary from her off the top of my head in other games but I haven't looked back yet to check them, if I will at all tbh. I don't know if it'd be helpful because it's either she's just like that in how she posts (die scum!) or she's emulating it.

Do you still SR Gamma? I think her vote on you was just to get you to talk (or still RVS), so I don't think there's any opportunistic moves there.

I think I understand the implosion scumreads.

could you elaborate more on this, and do you agree with them? Or like, where's your stance?

Was kind of there before, on a personally-involved level. It was early on though.

This is a little less logic-y than I want and I'm unsure if it'll really... make sense but I read 751. That's it. I don't know why on a deeper level I dislike it.

I -guess- it feels... hm. I would need to read implosion in full to feel comfortable with saying this with my whole chest but it feels like implo's taking time this game to protect places and explain away pressure/get on good sides, in a way? I remember he did that to me early, engaging with "oh I found you towny before" or something to that note. I understand that like... you have townreads that you want to protect and will explain why you think they're town. But it boils down to "vibes off".

I'll read his iso tomorrow to see if that's a fair assessment because let it be known my vibereads have not been it lately.

I read 751 and I agree with his take on VP. Maybe VP did focus on Andante but he also interacted with others as well.

At this point in time, do you still SR him? Are you done with your ISO on him?

If you are town I understand that this game is hard to engage (I have others too have said as much) but I’d appreciate a deeper dive if you have the time, if only to my replies selfishly.

That's true. I guess the pace of this game is a tad too fast for me. But I'll take Ari's advice and try to focus on one point and not on everything. That's why I'm replying to only to your posts now.

[hutmeil]

hutmeil - Scum lean. feels scared to make actual reads, and I'm not sure what exactly it is, but they feel very cautious about what they say, and are all like "I must ISO X" then they'll say something, that's basically already been repeated in thread by someone. So I do have concern here. Either town just unable to get into the game? Or probably scum, and I'm leaning scum.

I will indulge you then (and Datisi), sacrifice some sleep and make some reads:

VPB

- At the top of my previous read list. I liked how he started the ball rolling with the "I'm not Mason with Datisi" bit. I guess you feel tunnelled by him but that's one way to get info from someone.

Andante

- Again, I don't like your vote hopping. But I'm guessing if I checked your previous games you did the same too so I'm not reading much into it. But since you're one of the discussion drivers on D1, I feel that your towny as I've mentioned before. And yes I'm still keeping track and you already voted 14 times as against VPB, Datisi,Ari who voted 5 times each.

implosion

- I quick ISOd him now and he's playing the game and scumhunting. Not Andante level active but still active, asking questions and the like.

Datisi

- I've been interacting with him the past few pages and I feel he's towny. I see him interacting with others as well and interested to know their takes on other players.

S_S

- He does interact with others and asks questions. But I'm interested in his readslist since he hasn't posted one yet.

Gamma

- She's posted a gif list, but same with S_S, I hope she shows her readlist with a bit of explanation.

fire

- Read post 151 and I'm curious do you know VPB/Datisi personally? I mean the theatre reference makes it like you do know each other. Fire saying I'm scummy (post 675) because he thinks I'm redirecting (I'm not though) seems townish behavior to me. He's interacting with many players makes me think he's scumhunting.

Ari

- She's the only one who gave me a tip on how to play the game without getting burnt out, so thanks really!! That's not AI of course. She has lots of posts but lots of filler posts too (flirting etc...). She asks questions sometimes but nothing really substantial I think.

PenguinPower,GeorgeBailey,Malakittens

- I'm gonna put the 3 slots into one since they're basically all lurkers. I like Penguin's gif list but that's it. GB has been prodded I think. And Mala was lurking, posted a bit then gone again.

Vulture

- My controversial take. I'm not sure if I should repeat the reasons for my take but I stand by it. As for their other posts, are they more towny or scummy, I'm not sure with the answer to that but I think their posts are logical and makes sense so other than their early d1 suggestion, I don't think I will add scum points to their slot.

========

This is my updated readslist with cliffnotes. Don't know if that's good enough, but I have to sleep now (it's 3am again!).

[hutmeil]

I guess the pace of this game is a tad too fast for me

I mean, if you just speak up, those of us who talk a lot can chill out/condense posts. That's so much better then after the fact "oh yeah, I GUESS the pace was too fast"

Alright, no contest there. That's what I'm trying to do now.

Vulture - My controversial take. I'm not sure if I should repeat the reasons for my take but I stand by it. As for their other posts, are they more towny or scummy, I'm not sure with the answer to that but I think their posts are logical and makes sense so other than their early d1 suggestion, I don't think I will add scum points to their slot

I might have missed it, but without quoting full posts (just putting the post numbers are fine) could you repeat why Vulture is your STRONGEST SR?

Basically I SRd Vulture for them suggesting an early Mason reveal because it's more beneficial to scum than town. Others hated my stand and that's why it's controversial.

What feels wild to me, is your list is basically just the ordered version of my list, yet you had no comments for me on any of my people? You just provided a readslist cause I said you feel like you don't want to interact that much, it's generally a lot easier for maf to just quote a bunch of stuff and say whatever, ideally you'd be interacting in live time with someone.

I disagree with this. First of all, I posted a readslist before you posted your own. I posted on 882. You posted on 985. My 998 readslist was just me indulging Datisi's request for more info, but the reads were the same. If you're insinuating that I copied your list then that's incorrect entirely since I posted first.

I commented on your comment on me. I didn't comment on the others because basically I'm burnt out with the fast pace of the game. So I'm just commenting on things relating to me.

I would love to hear a little more on why you have Penguin, GB, Mala as the same tier. Could I get the non cliffnotes version of your read there?

There's nothing much to say since they're lurking but here goes:

Penguin - I think from what you guys are saying, "not saying much" is Penguin's game. He did start with that gif list so I like that but other than that, can't get a read. Since the slot is not posting much, I SR that slot. I basically SR lurkers especially on D1.

GB - Not talking. Well the slot did while I was creating this reply but I think GB posted just because he got prodded. The slot is not really contributing to anything. I think since everyone is looking at me suspiciously, GB!scum is taking advantage and is trying to get wagon momentum rolling with his vote on me.

Mala - Lurking. Posted a bit then is gone again. So SR. I default SR lurkers.

[hutmeil]

Welcome STD!

UNVOTE: Vulture/STD for now

In post 1001, Andante wrote:
In post 998, hutmeil wrote:
Vulture - My controversial take. I'm not sure if I should repeat the reasons for my take but I stand by it. As for their other posts, are they more towny or scummy, I'm not sure with the answer to that but I think their posts are logical and makes sense so other than their early d1 suggestion, I don't think I will add scum points to their slot

I might have missed it, but without quoting full posts (just putting the post numbers are fine) could you repeat why Vulture is your STRONGEST SR?


Basically I SRd Vulture for them suggesting an early Mason reveal because it's more beneficial to scum than town. Others hated my stand and that's why it's controversial.

hot take

that's funny b/c i SR'd you for early PR fishing in the newbie game for the same exact thing................................

Haha yes I remember. So are you saying, I'm making the same mistake as you did? But to be clear, I did not ask/say to role reveal, I was just testing the waters how people will react to asking about roles given it was a newbie game.

Basically I SRd Vulture for them suggesting an early Mason reveal because it's more beneficial to scum than town. Others hated my stand and that's why it's controversial.

i don't think people hate your stance on that. it's a reasonable opinion to have and i kinda townread you at first for having it bc it fit with what I've seen from your previous towngame

what is suspicious to me is that your scumread on vulture seems to be entirely based on that one point. that's like a fine point to rvs scumread someone for, but it feels like you're afraid or unable to produce new and unique content and that's why you're hanging on that one singular point. i don't really see you noticing new things, engaging with the main direction of the game unprompted, or reacting to people's posts that aren't about yourself. i do see that you did these things in your towngame

if you're town, just... respond to things that catch your eye, point out posts that you feel influence your read on people, stuff like that. and if it feels natural and genuine, then maybe ill see that. but for now, i don't

I'm sure I've mentioned this before but I guess I'll mention it again. There's too much meta in this game. "Looking back to that old game", "I remember in that other game", "You're not like that before when we played together", etc... I feel I cannot relate to what's being discussed. Sure I can go and read those old games but this game itself which is already 44 pages in length and still at D1, I don't think I have the time to go back and do that (and not for just 1 game!).

I get your point and it makes sense. I guess I should comment more on non-meta stuff (which is not a lot btw), sift through the post to find them.

[hutmeil]

I'm sure I've mentioned this before but I guess I'll mention it again. There's too much meta in this game. "Looking back to that old game", "I remember in that other game", "You're not like that before when we played together", etc... I feel I cannot relate to what's being discussed. Sure I can go and read those old games but this game itself which is already 44 pages in length and still at D1, I don't think I have the time to go back and do that (and not for just 1 game!).

I get your point and it makes sense. I guess I should comment more on non-meta stuff (which is not a lot btw), sift through the post to find them.

I want to say something like "I understand that the amount of meta is frustrating but I feel there's a good amount of non-meta content to respond to" but thinking about it I guess most of the content in this game has been tinged by meta in some way.

Even content that is based entirely on meta can be read into in spite of not knowing the actual meta. For instance, maybe you can't evaluate whether fireisredsir's argument about Datisi's scum meta is valid, but you could get an opinion on fireisredsir based on the way they make the argument.

Thanks for the tip!

What do you think of STD's catchup posts?

So far so good. He's still catching up and he's responding as he goes. I haven't seen anything untownie from his posts. I'm taking note of 1131 though where he said Datisi could just be getting townie credits (as scum?). Other than that, I'm just waiting for his gif list.

[hutmeil]

What do the SS and hutmeil gifs mean?

hutmeil's is pretty random lol i just had an urge to do a balloon gif and that one popped (heh) into my head

i feel safe with a S_S tr at this point so i put safety first

Lol, I was wondering what it meant too.

[hutmeil]

If it's between me and Penguin then of course I choose Penguin. People I TR/TL are voting for Penguin. Penguin is also on my SR list.

VOTE: Penguin

[hutmeil]

I think it's E-2?

[hutmeil]

the people who have been in invictus for longer than i have, does that game impact your read on fire here?

while i don't have a problem with hutmeil voting for self-pres, though i am slightly worried about how the vulture/std read kinda seemingly. disappeared.

Well, it didn't disappear, just pushed to the side since it's me vs the penguin wagon right?

[hutmeil]

why isn't mala an option?

I don't think there's a wagon on Mala? Plus the top 2 wagons are on me and Penguin.

[hutmeil]

why isn't mala an option?

I don't think there's a wagon on Mala? Plus the top 2 wagons are on me and Penguin.

I don’t care about current wagons, I’ll ask again, why can’t Mala be an option here?

Not sure what you mean but sure Mala can be an option. She's in my sr as a lurker. I'm fine eliminating lurkers on d1. But I don't think we can get there since it's basically me or penguin at this point.

[hutmeil]

why isn't mala an option?

I don't think there's a wagon on Mala? Plus the top 2 wagons are on me and Penguin.

I don’t care about current wagons, I’ll ask again, why can’t Mala be an option here?

Not sure what you mean but sure Mala can be an option. She's in my sr as a lurker. I'm fine eliminating lurkers on d1. But I don't think we can get there since it's basically me or penguin at this point.

you see how no one is around or doing anything with their votes right now? it means no one is actually deadset on who they vote. I think the consensus is just whoever in mala/penguin/hut

Like, I'm pretty certain mala is not town, only doing anything when there's direct pressure? that feels scum indicative to me. I'm not sure I'm a fan of this "must be hut or penguin!!!" "woe is me" thing like, getting the mala votes is not going to be a hard thing to do. So I'll ask again. Why not mala? what is townier about mala lurking than penguin lurking?

That's why I don't like (or trust?) all this meta stuff. You see Mala was lurking in our last game too but she turned out town. Now if I were to read her based on meta, then I should read her as town. But then again she knows that I know her meta so she could play like her last game to appear as town even when she's maf. My point is meta is not reliable at all.

So it's not really about who's townier for me. I'd Elim anyone on my sr. I voted for vulture before but that got nowhere. Then came Penguin who is being Sr'd by others i tr hence the vote.

Im taking note of the current 3 votes as of this writing on Mala though. Is that maf trying to save their mafmate in Peng? Maybe.

[hutmeil]

Im taking note of the current 3 votes as of this writing on Mala though. Is that maf trying to save their mafmate in Peng? Maybe.

ok nice, there's an original unprompted thought

do you have any thoughts on who that could be, if that were the case?

Good question. If I were to guess, Peng, Dragon and SS. I'm giving andante the benefit of the doubt since she's not a lurker d1.

[hutmeil]

i didn't vote mala tho

Ah right sorry about that, I'm on my tab and it's acting up. In that case, Peng, ss and andante for now.

[hutmeil]

i didn't vote mala tho

Ah right sorry about that, I'm on my tab and it's acting up. In that case, Peng, ss and andante for now.

I doubt all three mafia are coordinating their votes on a moonshot wagon that is unlikely. There is some just bad town in this mix.

True. It's just that it's so sudden so I've added some scum points to their slots.

[hutmeil]

Just want to point out that VP had 3 SRs - Peng/Mala/Andante. He got Peng right. Maybe that got him NKd? I get the Mala SR. But Andante I have to think about more...

[hutmeil]

i see what mala is saying, but that is probably not going to stop me from demanding more effort from her today

i'm gonna go eat something, then start going through on-wagon slots

Ditto. I re-read some of VP's post and saw this 1391. I guess VP was no longer SRing Mala towards the end.

But same point as Dats, Mala should post more today.

@hut, what is the current status of your save the dragons read, and why?

Vulture's mason thing is still noted. However, I don't see anything scummy with what STDs been doing up to now. Plus the fact that he TRs me eventhough I've SRd that slot at first tells me that he's really playing the game and analyzes things. STD!scum could have seen I was LHF and pushed there but didn't.

So overall, I'm getting townie vibes from the slot.

Just want to point out that VP had 3 SRs - Peng/Mala/Andante. He got Peng right. Maybe that got him NKd? I get the Mala SR. But Andante I have to think about more...

he tunneled me at one point sure, but if he still SRed me he'd have kept tunneling? so idk what the point you're trying to make here even is? Scum was obv hunting for masons, killed someone that no one SRed, assuming he'd be mason, and they were wrong, there's is no way scum kills him for his reads cause I'm town, and if this is your attempt to start a tunnel on me? think again

Hmmm, I'm not sure he dropped his SR on you? See 1371. I acknowledge implo's post 1626 on why you might be town. But this could be WIFOM so I'm still sus on that since the only conftown (VP) we have , has been SRing you from the beginning.

i know hut was trying to say BREAKING DAWN PART 1 but the thread was locked before they could and i tr them for that

LOL!

sorry if you're not a he hutmeil, i don't know what your pronouns are and i default to he

Yup, I'm a he!

[hutmeil]

Hmmm, I'm not sure he dropped his SR on you? See 1371. I acknowledge implo's post 1626 on why you might be town. But this could be WIFOM so I'm still sus on that since the only conftown (VP) we have , has been SRing you from the beginning.

hut if you want to 1v1 me let's go. Why am I scum. We're not playing this game all day of "oh you must've killed VP for his read on you" let me hear the case. lets go. let me hear it.

Uhmmmm I'm quite zzzzzz ..... You're not a sure scum for me, if you remember my list D1, I actually TL you. Others here do too. But I can't ignore our only conftown's SR on you though. Of course he could be wrong.

You tried to divert the Peng wagon to Mala. Implo said Andante!scum would not this because it's useless to save a scummate that's about to go down. But I say maybe Andante!scum is trying to WIFOM and devious so she goes with it to appear towny.

I'm just putting this out here for everyone to think about since you asked for more info.

[hutmeil]

Actually, hut I have an easier question for you, as much as I want you to actually commit to this SR on me,

I also want to know, do you genuinely believe the only reason VP died was cause of his reads being "100% correct"

Why is it so hard to believe he died due to being a universal TR, and SRed by literally no one.. meaning, from a mafia pov, he would most likely be a mason. This is also kinda tripping me up, cause hut, you're all "VP died cause of andante!!!" but that's the "entire case" also... lol at the pop in right as we're talking about you

I don't remember saying that's my only reason? That post was just a different point of view that we could look into.

To be clear, I agree that scum is mason hunting just because that's they're best play.

[hutmeil]

*their

[hutmeil]

But I can't ignore our only conftown's SR on you though. Of course he could be wrong.

so when he's alive, you didn't care about his reads, but now that he's dead. we must put his "reads" on this high pedestal? you town leaned me, and he had me as like lock scum half the day.. if you actually cared about his reads, why did you not interact while he was alive?

He TRd me, and I TRd him. I don't think there was anything to discuss.

You tried to divert the Peng wagon to Mala.

Yeah, because he was copying his town game... as I literally pointed out.. said he was town or scum copying his town meta.. I had penguin as a SR till he got townier, and then mala continued to do nothing, except when she was under pressure, like, I have no problem with the fact I was trying to flip it to mala, remember how you were sheeping VP? VP also SRed Mala. So if we're playing by VP's reads, I flipped it from 1 maf to another... we have no way of knowing what the exact situation was till mala flips. And if mala flips red, I'd almost bet we're not having this conversation about how I'm maf for trying to flip the wagon to mala

Exactly why I don't like meta-gaming. Anyone can game others by copying their meta.

Implo said Andante!scum would not this because it's useless to save a scummate that's about to go down. But I say maybe Andante!scum is trying to WIFOM and devious so she goes with it to appear towny.

Right, cause I'd make a SOLID case about penguin being scum, then completely move on... as scum. I litereally was like "yall. I really think penguin scum" at one point, and shortly after that penguin was changing up his play, so I had doubts, and a mala wagon literally was not bad there...

You have a point here. But still that's just one possibility.

[hutmeil]

yall are refusing to lim mala

i think the only person who has expressed not being interested in limming mala is std. me and implo voting george both want mala dead as well, p sure ari wants mala, dunno what hut and s_s want

I'm fine limming Mala. I'm fine with George too but he got replaced so that makes it an easy choice.

[hutmeil]

D'aww you think i am town, WELL MAYBE YOU VOTE REAL MAFIA THEN? OR ATLEAST SAY WHO YOU THINK IS IT?

Oh right, you are so stuck, you hoping to die at night. Not gonna blame you for that, mafia is hard.

i dunno we were doing fine before you replaced in

I tell you something.

But looking at situation there was two futures.

First: Mala die anyway. She was Town. Still Mistake.
Second: GeorgeBailey die instead. Obviously bad.

Maybe something would change, but i didn't really believe. You would just push me for "I hate Enchant" like you do in all games, and i can do jackshit with this.

Ari hates you in almost all games that you played with her? Any example?

[hutmeil]

Nice congrats!

[hutmeil]

ive thought about it some more and im going back to thinking it isn't hut

Thank you!

don't really think we should lim in [std, implo, ari, dats, hut] and if im right on that and everyone agrees then the poe of [andante, ss, enchant, me] wins the game. but they probably don't agree and i might not be right, so hey, idk

That POE list is basically the same as mine plus enchant for that quick hammer. I'm willing to vote anyone from that list.

i have a kinda hard time seeing ss+andante as a team so i kind of want enchant. i really think implo should reassess his TRs on enchant and andante if not now then after i die bc im p sure he's wrong on one of them or maybe both

i also think that i probably have to die at some point for the game to be solvable just due to the positions ive been in so far which is unfort but thats okay, i understand. i think atp that me living to elo would be an actively bad idea for the likelihood of winning the game. i don't think there's really anything that i could do that would prove my towniness here, and of the 5 people i think are town, at least 3 of them want me dead and i don't think that's ever fully going away

This sounds towny to me (willing to die for town). But then again, it sounds like what a sly politician would say so idk.

[hutmeil]

bleh 2185 is too long. that's enough efforting for today... unless hut shows up. hut I want your SRs, who do you think is maf?

I already answered this. See 2132

[hutmeil]

If Datisi isn’t mason he’s literally maf

Why is this?

Maf is mason hunting, they want to kill the towniest people/leaders. Datisi has been “leading” this entire game, why would scum actually WANT to kill VP over Datisi? I’m town, VP was just gonna tunnel a town and be noise, Datisi is a “voice of reason” you can’t tell me you’re not questioning why Datisi hasn’t died, yet has been “consensus TR” since the freaking start of the game, but whatever you think I’m maf, so maybe you’re not questioning why we still have Datisi alive, cause I’m “for sure maf” and thus, nothing I say is logic, so I’ll flip town, the. we completely ignore the valid thoughts I had

at this point masons not outing is only hurting us, but what do I freaking know, I’m the mafia being voted out

Mafia is mason hunting. And you want mason to out. Great.

On D1, you tried to reroute the wagon over to Mala from Peng. VP also wanted you dead the whole day. And he died N1.

On D2, you lead the wagon on Mala. Gamma's last post 1862 doesn't help you either.

VOTE: Andante

[hutmeil]

i still think andante is more likely to flip red here, but i wish i had the confidence to push it through

i think we should at least give std (and hutmeil >.>) a chance to be proper caught up with the current events

Hmm I think we're getting nowhere. If we're not going with Andante, I'm fine limming [ss, enchant, fire].

[hutmeil]

honestly if hut and/or SS are masons. they literally couldn't be MORE anti town right now, so no, I don't freaking care

It's not the masons' responsibility to lead. It's the masons' responsibility to not die, and not make their partners obvious if they do.

Regardless of whether I'm mason or VT, I am never going to be leading.

I'd have to agree with SS here.

Leadership-wise I don't think I'm in a position to do that at this point of my game career, regardless if i'm vt or mason. Still learning stuff as I go which I'm learning a lot btw.

[hutmeil]

Just checking in, will post later when on my laptop.

[hutmeil]

Fire is teamed.

Otherwise i don't fucking know how we elimmed Andante instead.

Who do you think fire is teamed with?

[hutmeil]

here's a take

VOTE: implosion

i have a feeling he has been building a trajectory to get onto voting me. but the way i see it, that trajectory doesn't really make sense. or like, it has things added to it that are vaguely connected but overall they don't make a cohesive complete thought process together. my guess was that he was hoping enchant would carry on wanting to kill me from yesterday. i'd be interested in

literally everyone other than enchant and fire

having a comment on this, though.

also enchant is town. i was expecting him to come in trying to kill me today, and i feel like this reversal of his read of me makes absolutely zero sense to do as scum.

I need other non-Datisi people to look at Datisi and analyze him/what I'm saying about him more bc honestly I don't think back and forth with him himself is going to be very useful to me for sorting him :X. It just feels like it's going to fall into the trope of arguments in mafia where I say X, he says no not X, and I just can't really trust the argumentation as useful for his alignment.

Spoiler: This is basically a rant and i honestly am slightly embarrassed to post it because i'm going to feel really bad about it if datisi is town and tbh i might just not even read whatever he makes his reply to it because golly gosh

So the thing I said I'd look at wrt Datisi was his trajectory yesterday. He started off by talking about/going after Enchant, essentially prodding him to give reads and such and eventually voting him with Ari, starting around 1907. I'm not sure if I buy Datisi's vote here, looking it over. Ari's read is very clearly emotionally driven, and Datisi's comes off the back of essentially a series of back and forth questions that he didn't like the answers to. I think by 1933 when he votes, he is supposed to be scumreading Enchant and it's not just emotionally driven like Ari's vote clearly was, because his vote wasn't just a vanity vote and he shortly thereafter asked Ari why she thought Enchant was town. But then like 30 minutes later he made the comment that he thought Enchant was looking townie but had fooled him before. I guess like with the other thing I'd been describing, this can have an explanation as town but makes a lot of sense as a trajectory for scum to take on Enchant I think? I just feel like the thought process behind the vote is murky and doesn't quite make sense to me.

He then left his vote on S_S a while while fire became leading wagon, while he was also calling fire scum in a few ways (e.g. calling his lack of paranoia towards Datisi potentially scummy, and poe). It seems like for a while he was poeing fire/s_s and looking for reasons to break that poe. Sensible as either alignment probably.

Then comes the shift to Andante eventually, and I really can't tell what prompted it. It comes off the back of Datisi seemingly being unimpressed with a back-and-forth/Andante not giving reads, then Andante gets to E-2 and he says he's starting to think Andante is actually scum. This has a little bit of a parallel with the Enchant vote in that I can't tell fully if it's actually a read, actually frustration with Andante, or some combination of both (i mean clearly it's partially a read but it's a weird (not necessarily scummy-weird) reversal from how he'd been talking about Andante recently). He gives logical and meta justifications for the vote after that.

I guess my main issue with all this is that it all seems perfectly sensible to do as scum. Like, Datisi has cited things that he's done this game that he claims aren't how he plays as scum, but those things, generally to me, have sounded like actually pretty sensible things to do as scum. For instance,

entering the day with "there was a bus ackchually" is not the idea i wanna start planting in people's heads after bussing

He said he wouldn't have been pushing on-penguin-wagon d2 as scum because he was on-wagon. But that could be totally sensible to do as scum who was on-wagon and whose partner was off-wagon when there's five other people who were on wagon other than you and the now-dead baltar... I don't understand why it wouldn't be sensible, no one has ever actually had the thought pattern of "oh my god, Datisi is pushing on wagon, datisi was on wagon, datisi is totally scum!!" that he's implying he'd be afraid of as scum. That just, simply isn't how thought processes work? And there's more things at play that cause people to have reads on people than this and a part of me thinks that this line is just straight bullshit? Idk, maybe it's possible Town Datisi is lying to himself here??? but this seems simply false to me that he'd never (or even infrequently) make that play as scum.

i'm also not gonna so easily drop it if i do decide to take that angle because murdering on wagon then off wagon is overall easier than the other way around

This is also just, kind of bullshit? Sure it's "overall easier" why does that mean you'd never easily drop it? It's a perfectly sensible thing to do as scum for a billion different reasons. Maybe there's an easy off-wagon lim that day that presents itself, maybe you want to look like your opinions are fluid, etc, etc, etc.

if i'm gonna bus, i'm gonna come up with better arguments than "lol ye lurking is scummy" or however else i said it on d1 because if you wanna bus, you have to appear like you have Great Reasons why the person is scum, rather than jumping on as an afterthought

I think this is just a basic mischaracterization of this game. If scum!Datisi thought about bussing Penguin at the moment that he would have here, there were no Great Reasons why Penguin was scum. He'd done shit-all that was readable. But it's still potentially sensible to bus there. And he did give increasing reasons to vote penguin - it's not like he totally didn't justify it if it was a bus. Like he gave as good of reasons as I think he possibly could.

I think this is also just a fascinating take in its own right - it's almost saying "if I were scum, I would be playing so much better than I am as town". Like saying you would have given better reasons and been more committed to the bus. Like, why should I believe that your scum game is a better town game than your town game is? Idk.

Like, almost the entirety of the post I'm quoting here (2675) is saying "I can't be scum here because my game would look so much better if I was scum", as far as I can tell. The last paragraph:

like, you can argue "but datisi have big scumrange" and claim i did these things because wifom or because i was planning a month ahead to make this post, but i simply don't play scum like that because then i either have to (1) hope town draws these conclusions themselves or (2) make the arguments myself, and both of those are things that i can't rely on as scum

This is just so weird because he's claiming the things that he's done that are townie are townie because they are low-utility to do as scum, because people would never be giving him credit for them. Which like... tbh it sounds like Datisi is putting his scumgame on a bigger pedestal than I am? Like I think this is just not how anything works. Datisi, as scum, is sometimes going to do things that are Not Perfectly Optimal To Do As Scum In That Situation. He's just going to go with the flow sometimes.

And beyond all that, the actual reason I'm thinking more that you are scum is sort of PoE-inspired but it's not PoE. It's because exactly the thing that you're describing you should be town for, is why several other people in this game are town, but it doesn't apply to you. So many other players in this game have done shit that I feel

doesn't

make sense for them to do as scum, but every trajectory you've taken this game just feels so... sensible. You haven't turned on a dime, you haven't done any weird shit, and most importantly you haven't taken any major actions in the most recent parts of the game that have made me go "jeez, this just doesn't make sense to come from scum Datisi". Like, take Enchant. His weird outburst today is, I think, probably extremely +town. I'm open to arguments that it isn't but like, idk. It feels like if you're town, there should be something tangible that I can point to at this point that makes you town - there were things on d1 that were

somewhat

tangible but those aren't enough at this point?

Read the whole thing and my head hurts (sorry implo!). Anyway, I do remember Dats wanting to vote on-wagon d2. While others wanted to go off-wagon. This caught my attention because why go on-wagon when it's scum that got elimmed? Basic instinct would be to assume the wagon was pure (like what Gamma said before she got NKd). As towntisi, I guess he would like to sort out if there was any bussing. But as scumtisi, he could have also concluded that the wagon was pure and consisted of masons too.

Another thing, I was TRing Dats early. He's like my 2nd TR after VP and was expecting him to get NKd after VP because he was the unofficial town leader (like Ari said). But he's still alive now after 6 deaths and I'm very wary of him now.

VOTE: Datisi

[hutmeil]

scum have very different motivations behind their nightkills in this setup than usual.

I'm curious to know what those motivations are?

datisi was not on any of the nights the most likely to be mason

Hmm, I'm not sure I understand this. Scum is mason-hunting but since Datisi is still alive, he's likely mason?

[hutmeil]

Basic instinct would be to assume the wagon was pure (like what Gamma said before she got NKd).

i have seen so many games be lost after a scumflip on d1 because scum bussed and everyone was like "hurr durr kill low hanging fruit what is bussing" and then lose. my last scumgame, i bussed on day 1 and then murdered the town afterwards because they kept being stupid and killing off-wagon. scum loves bussing.

Hmmmmm ok, this could be my noobness. But if it's not you then who is it lol.

also if i hear another "datisi did not die so he's scum" i'm gonna kashoot myself

You're saying this happens often? Haha

[hutmeil]

Hmm, I'm not sure I understand this. Scum is mason-hunting but since Datisi is still alive, he's likely mason?

i'm unlikely to be a mason

therefore scum did not kill me because they are probably trying to kill masons

Okay gotcha.

scum have very different motivations behind their nightkills in this setup than usual.

I'm curious to know what those motivations are?

datisi was not on any of the nights the most likely to be mason

True, him not being killed does not mean he's scum. But you said it yourself, one of the conclusions of him not dying is because he could be scum. And that's my line of thought.

Hmm, I'm not sure I understand this. Scum is mason-hunting but since Datisi is still alive, he's likely mason?

the motivations are hunting for masons. if scum do not kill masons they lose

the conclusion is that datisi could be scum, or it could be that scum didn't think he was likely to be mason. i don't think he was ever the most likely to be mason, therefore that is a valid reason for him to not be killed if he's town.

him not being killed does not imply that he is scum bc there is also a reasonable explanation for why he wouldn't be killed

[hutmeil]

What happened to my reply to the 2nd quote???? Anyway, I'll quote again.

[hutmeil]

him not being killed does not imply that he is scum bc there is also a reasonable explanation for why he wouldn't be killed

It's true that him not dying does not mean he's scum....

the conclusion is that datisi could be scum, or it could be that scum didn't think he was likely to be mason. i don't think he was ever the most likely to be mason, therefore that is a valid reason for him to not be killed if he's town.

... but you said it yourself, one of the conclusion could be because he's scum and that's my line of thought.

[hutmeil]

But he's still alive now after 6 deaths and I'm very wary of him now.

it's kinda odd you point out 6 deaths when only 3 have been nughtkills

By deaths I meant eliminations + night kills.

[hutmeil]

if you flip a coin, one of the possibilities is that it lands heads. however, flipping a coin does not imply that your coin will land heads, because there is an equal probability that it will land tails

Agreed.

datisi not being killed would only increase the probability of him being scum (relative to everyone else still alive)

Agreed again.

if, in the world where he's town, scum would be more likely to kill him than vp/gamma/ari.

Hmmm, why? I had VP as my #1 TR and not Datisi. But hey that's just me.

i don't think that is the case bc scum were hunting masons, not just killing people based on towniness

Got it. Hmmm why hasn't scum got it right then? You and Enchant have said you've figured out who the Masons are, why haven't scum done so?

[hutmeil]

in general my most useful role on the town team is not to help form solid reads, it's to help use mechanics optimally. It is tricky in this game, but I still want to give it a try.

How exactly?

[hutmeil]

Does anyone think Enchant is scum at this point? Or like, do people have significant paranoia?

The quick hammer back then was terrible but other than that I think he's townie.

[hutmeil]

my point was, if you're making a "wow, datisi has not been killed yet" argument, then saying there's been 6 deaths is really disingenuous, as you're talking about nightkills and you're implying there's a greater number of them than there really has been

Hmmm I guess I'm not that fluent in modern Mafia talk yet. I had the "L" word in mind for day elimination and since the "L" word basically means kill, I was thinking day elimination and night kills are both kills.

You're saying this happens often? Haha

nope, i used to be the village idiot that always lived to yeetlo. nowdays it's basically 50/50 i die night 1 / i make it to endgame.

Hahaha I guess I'm the village idiot now lol.

Hmmmmm ok, this could be my noobness. But if it's not you then who is it lol.

implo? s_s? whoever else exists in this game? you do know that even if it were me, i'd still have a partner, right?

Yes of course. I'm just simplifying and focusing at one at a time. But if I had to guess, it would be STD. He's conveniently lurking in the shadows. I haven't gone to length to check if you + STD are viable scum partners (nor am I sure how exactly to do that lol), I'm just looking at it individually.

[hutmeil]

and that my thoughts on bussing being likely make sense

Who do you think bussed? If you and I are town, who bussed? That only leaves implo and STD.

If I were to choose, I guess I'll choose STD since (1) he's originally Vulture who suggested the Mason reveal early, (2) too convenient lurking (though has rl valid reason...).

From your previous games, how many scums bussed on D1? Or rather, what is the optimal number of scums to bus?

[hutmeil]

and that my thoughts on bussing being likely make sense

Who do you think bussed? If you and I are town, who bussed? That only leaves implo and STD.

If I were to choose, I guess I'll choose STD since (1) he's originally Vulture who suggested the Mason reveal early, (2) too convenient lurking (though has rl valid reason...).

From your previous games, how many scums bussed on D1? Or rather, what is the optimal number of scums to bus?

@Datisi: Any thoughts?

[hutmeil]

Is it highly probable both scums bussed D1?

[hutmeil]

Fire's summary is fire.

[hutmeil]

I am dumbo and don't understand what it means.

He wants to elim you rather implo because you claimed VT. I disagree though.

[hutmeil]

so by saying that you felt a datisi townflip loses the game, you are softing VT. there's actually zero benefit to doing this as VT if you're just going to vote datisi anyway, especially when you then go on to say "despite my best efforts, a mason will probably still die". if that was still your top priority, you wouldn't have softed VT

I've been thinking about this. How does a TownTisi immediately lose us the game? It doesn't, as evidenced by D5. So why say this? Every player on this game is a veteran except for me. So maybe SS is trying to sway my noob mind to remove my vote on Dats like Dats did on 2806. Since I'm a universal TR, if I unvote maybe others will too?

Or SS might have meant something else.

As SSTown, SS might be implying that one of Fire/Enchant is not Town.

As SSScum, it could be:
- a last ditch effort to save Dats
- or as Fire mentioned, SS is simply trying to look Towny
- SS is throwing shade on Fire/Enchant

I'm inclined to believe the latter because I'm still set on Fire/Enchant as Town.

I'm also surprised Datisi didn't try to defend himself toward the end. He was unusually quiet. Maybe scum decided to bus again? In others words, SS bussed?

As for Looker (previously STD, previously Vulture), I still haven't forgotten Vulture's suggestion for the Mason to out early. Then STD was a lurker. Then Dats brought up the bussing idea which right now leaves Looker (STD) as the only remaining bussing candidate on D1 (and me of course but I'm town obviously).

So I guess what I'm saying is I'm only voting for either Looker or SS today. @Enchant @Fire, let me know who we are voting today.

[hutmeil]

why would fire+datisi just accept me as town and then let Datisi just die

In that world, then that's their bussing strategy.

Are you having double thoughts on Fire!Town?

[hutmeil]

hut? thoughts?

You willing to elim Looker instead? For me it's either SS or Looker.

[hutmeil]

I mean if fire and Enchant want to stake the game on the other being town then I won't contradict it, especially if hutmeil agrees.

For me they're both town.

[hutmeil]

what's the point of claiming if there's no one to corroborate

Are you claiming mason?

[hutmeil]

I am the last Mason. Anyone want to counterclaim? Since I'm the only one remaining, I don't think there's any use to hiding anymore since I'm basically a VT at this point. Since there's a possibility (though low) I might die next night, I might as well claim now since claiming at Elo might not be a good idea for me.

Everything I've said is what the Mason's sentiments are. We TR Fire/Enchant. We want to elim Looker/SS.

About Fire, it's true that he's been on point since D2. He got all 3 of us in his list. We considered going after him but he's too townie to do so. His reasonings are logical and makes sense from a VT/Mason standpoint.

About Enchant, Gamma hates you lol (quick hammer?). But after that, your play has been townie ever since.

About S_S, I remember Dats saying scum likes to bus. I think S_S bussed on the Dats wagon.

VOTE: SS

[hutmeil]

I guess it's E-1

[hutmeil]

Gg!

[hutmeil]

PTs:

Dead/Spectator: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=89638
Mafia: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=89635
Masons: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=89636
Mod: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=89634
Datisi Notes: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=89642



Mafia/Masons have 24 hours to request redactions to their PT.

Thread unlocked for postgame discussion.

I guess I have to wait 24hrs before I can see the scum pt?

[hutmeil]

gut tells me mason newbie puts their buddies in town. we'll see after they elaborate i guess...

Haha thought about this too. That's why I just I played it like VT