Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Eiralox

interesting flavor @kitty

[Cat Scratch Fever]

ambushed from behind!

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Oh dear

I already explained it as it was a mindmeld with elephant person

How was it a mindmeld? Irrelephant did not state a scumread on FancyPants before you voted for Fancy.

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VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

Hello

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@KittyTacky: I will be V/LA this Saturday and Sunday

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Why phrase it as a mindmeld if you thought Fancy was scum if you arrived at that conclusion independently?

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VOTE: BBT

I dislike their push. I don't think everyone who self votes has to do it as a reaction test, and the absence of a follow up isn't scummy.

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Why?

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You know why

I do not

What is your impression of BBT?

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Same question goes for CW

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Why are you voting for me?

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And that's scummy because...

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I'm still here

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BBT could be town. Pants seems torn. Cat scratch why would BBT starting a weak push be scummy on page ~3? Like yes, it’s weak, but it’s page 3

Spoiler:

Sure.

He self-voted (appears care free)

Two people hop on his self vote and create a wagon.

He ignores it. If it wasn't some sort of basic reaction test, what exactly was the point of it? Except to appear 'care-free and townie'

it was for a joke, to be honest. I myself do not care for RVS votes, they do not phase me.

OK, but I would still expect you to do something with it as town.

Especially now, given you're clear disregard (dislike?) for RVS

I dislike how he continued to harp on it after it was made clear that it was a joke.

Sure, BBT can be town who was just looking for something to push the game forward, but I mostly wanted to move my vote away from Eiralox and this seemed like a fine place as any to start.

Also if I squint really hard, I can see CW being town. The quick vote switch onto FancyPants coupled with 100 seems to indicate that he is at least thinking critically as early as page 2.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It was a way to extort a read out of CW, which reflects bad on anyone not wishing to do the same on someone else.

This assumes I'm not making a push to get a better read on BBT.

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Also I'm not sure BBT got a read out of CW from that interaction (if he does, please correct me), so as far as a push, I'm not sure it went anywhere.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It was a way to extort a read out of CW, which reflects bad on anyone not wishing to do the same on someone else.

This assumes I'm not making a push to get a better read on BBT.

Were you making a push on BBT to get a read on them?

Yes.

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Frederick seems town

Kenny's first post was bad, but the rest of his interactions with FancyPants feels TvT. In particular, I feel like pushing FancyPants, who I think several people have said are town, feels like going against the grain in a way that I don't think new scum would do.

Nothing Loftwing has written seems that difficult to fake but he pings me as genuine town anyway

Shoshin is probably town (before you ask, yes this is meta)

[Cat Scratch Fever]

kenny reminds me of every day 1 scumflip

I've ever participated in, and I think a *lot* has to change from that slot for me to *not* vote there by the end of the game day.

On the other hand, I don't really expect much to change from kenny, and there's always a chance he's town (and there's 2 more scum to find) so I'd rather pressure other slots for a bit

How so?

I'm also interested in why you had BBT in your townblock earlier.

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I'm caught up. Kenny, Cats, malcolm fine for lynch. fancy begrudgingly town, mala town, irrelephant town, toffee town I guess.

Do you, uh, have any actual reasons for your thoughts?

Offhand, Cats' reaction to getting votes gives me "waah i'm caught for bullshit reasons this is so unfair" vibes.

Kenny seems a little too polished with his unfrozen-caveman "i'm a newbie" gimmick. Malcolm seems overly careful and like he's hiding.

fancy gave off "town captain" scum vibes, but now I think maybe that's just who he is--that he hasn't backed off from his pedantry and wordiness is probably a good sign. mala I can't remember, just a vibe. Irrelephant mostly asking good questions, toffee I forget why but in ISO I have town read.

Elaborate on the bolded

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Lowell

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Post 35. Weird virtue-signaling plus scummy wording ("actually probably" isn't how I picture town describing their alignment preferences).

What's the virtue signaling? Is it the last sentence?

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CW have you played with me before? The locktown read felt like it came out of nowhere. You don't have to reveal who you are, just a y/n is fine.

Kenny, why is Fancy scum for pushing an early scumread? Town will make mountains out of molehills early on, and they're liable to be wrong since info is limited. Why is that not descriptive of Fancy's play here?

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i saw people start voting Lowell/Loftwing

Are you against a Lowell wagon? If so, I'd like to hear why

Do you feel like his characterization of my posting as "scum panicking" is fair?

Shosh and pants doing a “let’s performatively say opposite things on a thing that doesn’t matter” gambit. Love it.

Cats still, though. Someone hammer

This post in particular, I feel like was shutting down some potentially fruitful lines of discussion. Fancy was soft defending my wagon but Lowell seemed fairly uninterested in talking to him about that, and he displayed a lack of curiosity wrt Shoshin's Malcolm read.

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CW have you played with me before? The locktown read felt like it came out of nowhere. You don't have to reveal who you are, just a y/n is fine.

Kenny, why is Fancy scum for pushing an early scumread? Town will make mountains out of molehills early on, and they're liable to be wrong since info is limited. Why is that not descriptive of Fancy's play here?

I guess I described, why I think Fancy's push looks scummy. I never said I am 100 % sure that they are scum. And how could I?

To be honest I feel way less sure of a scum!Fancy than I was at the time of my vote.

Why is that? What other reads do you have?

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Hope you feel better soon, Lowell. I got covid recently and it sucked

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God help me I’m starting to pull a town read on Malcolm. His last few posts have convinced (?) me (?), though I’m not so far gone that I can’t admit it’s based on tone, not content.

Also I have the ‘Rona. Sadface.

Why did you preface this post with "God help me" btw?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Confidently Wrong: Really interesting idea for an account. With so many contradicting posts it would be quite easy to openly slip without anyone noticing or at least being able to easily deny it. No one can know for sure which post is real and which is a fake post to stick to the role. My gut feeling tells me that this slot is probably more town than scum, so townlean.

FancyPants: At the moment I voted Fancy I really felt they were scum (I won't repeat myself here). I think I now know, why they thought what they thought. I really liked the "does experienced scum teach newbie scum in daytalk" question. This felt like they thought I was suddenly doing better but needed an explanation why (I hope everyone gets what I want to say there. I couldn't describe it any better) and they only came up with the "external help"-solution. scumlean

Irrelephant11: His effort feels townie.

The only thing that pings my scum radar is the fact that he read shoshin as twon early on.

This could be a pocketing try. townlean

these reads are kinda weird

if you understand Fancy's original thought process and you liked one of their later posts, why are they still a scumlean for you?

Why is there no suspicion on Irrelephant, who has projected a lot of confidence that you are scum?

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Kenny - I've also said Shoshin is probably town. Why does that not ping scum to you?

Same question goes for malcolm.

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God help me I’m starting to pull a town read on Malcolm. His last few posts have convinced (?) me (?), though I’m not so far gone that I can’t admit it’s based on tone, not content.

Also I have the ‘Rona. Sadface.

Why did you preface this post with "God help me" btw?

I don’t consider him to be a useful player and would prefer him to be scum.

To answer whoever else asked, something about the way he talks about preferring to be scum makes me now read him as town.

that's a bit of a premature assessment unless you've played with Malcolm before, but I think you've been away from the site for a while, is that correct?

The phrasing just pinged me as weird, but I'm really struggling to describe what I'm feeling

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Good point re:that fancypants read

Also hi CSF, do you have a read on CW?

Not really, I'm kind of gutreading them as town but not really feeling too strongly about it one way or another

If he's who I think he is (the N1 comment was "outing", as they might say), then I'm not that confident in reading them or if they've done anything super AI yet

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Lowell just seems mad that he's townreading someone he doesn't like/want to be on the same team as. Like "ugh I thought I caught one but I guess it was just playstyle all along"
Not that you're definitely wrong I just don't think it's as clear cut & obvious as you're saying

I'm definitely not basing my reads on Lowell being mafia

Kind of odd to think he's caught scum this early, no?

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Thinking Eiralox is town

Though I disagree with their push. Not explaining reads right away isn't scummy, especially if they explain it in a later post

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Mala does prefer playing town to scum. I like to give her some leeway because she's consistently busy IRL, but the longer she's away, the more wary I grow of her alignment.

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i mean i've affirmed my willingnes to vote mala and ive said lowell is in the bottom of my pile so this entire reasoning here(along with mala inactive total null) for a team is... what?

just the three u find most scummy?

I think this is CW's reasoning, yes. Why do you think it's scummy?

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I guess Eira wasn't scumreading you. Idk his posts are hard to grok

I still think he has a towny tone

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: confidently wrong

with a ten foot pole.

lowell i'm ok with. you don't xpand tho. fact that u have mala on scum list trips me. mala straight null, ill vote there cos inactive but i don't see how u can form any reads. there's nothing. so having mala in a team with lowell/eira..... i mean CF maybe ur trolling here but D1 if I name three ppl scum i do so with reasons. meh.


me, well, bring your case. tell me why and how eira is scummy.

When you said you were voting Confidently Wrong "with a ten foot pole", it really seemed like you were seriously scumreading them. Why did you phrase it like that if you weren't scumreading CW at the time?

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Unofficial VC

Loftwing (3): FancyPants, Lowell, MalcolmTucker
Eiralox (3) : Confidently Wrong, , Irrelephant11, Fredrick A Campbell
Malakittens (1): Loftwing
Confidently Wrong (1): Eiralox
Lowell (1): Cat Scratch Fever
kennyk (1): BlueBloodedToffee
MalcolmTucker (1): Shoshin
BlueBloodedTofee (1): Malakittens
FancyPants (0): kennyk

Not Voting (0):

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I also heavily disagree that the tone is towny. The tone is *annoyed*. That is not inherently towny.

I was referring to the belief they seem to have in themselves that they're right, not so much the annoyance

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Eiralox

Let's see where it goes

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I think CW is town btw

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I'm too cute to be scum :3

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Mala does prefer playing town to scum. I like to give her some leeway because she's consistently busy IRL, but the longer she's away, the more wary I grow of her alignment.

Did I miss the post where Mala says she prefers town over scum?

If it is true, her not posting really is a bad sign.

It's not a post

It's out of experience playing with her several times

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Lowell

[Cat Scratch Fever]

There are still openings on the juicy Lowell wagon

Also Irrel townleaned you earlier too

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Cats still mad I busted him up so early. Sorry Bud it happens, even a blind Lowell finds a nut once in a while. I’ll laugh if it’s eira AND Cats, but I doubt that’s likely unless there’s a scum day chat.

I'm still waiting for you to explain why you think my earlier reaction was "scum panicking"

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Town to scum:

Eira
Fancy
Kenny
Malcolm
Cat
CW
Irrel
BBT
Fred
Mala
Lowell
Loftwing

Why is Fred so low? Lower than BBT and Irrel?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Cats panicked when he thought he was caught for a dumb reason, and

has spent the next 20 pages lurking or sniping at low hanging fruit.

Really now

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Confidently Wrong

I feel like you're both town

And if you can work together, this game should really be a cakewalk

[Cat Scratch Fever]

@Lowell, how am I lurking? Why do you expect me to think you're town? That's a wild accusation

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Why is CW town, Cat?

I feel like they were trying to genuinely solve for Eira's alignment - the questions on page 19 reads like they're still willing to reconsider.

Spoiler:

Whats your lowell read


please explain your read progression from the first moment you mentioned my slot - that would be the point where you unvoted Lowell.

sorry I made that unclear that's 2 seperate requests:

how are you reading lowell now?

and how has your read on my slot evolved since you mentioned my name? what reasoning was there?

I think they're town that started tunneling onto town after Eiralox refused to engage.

Spoiler: based on this post

And to ellaborate more on Eira - when reading their posts it comes off as someone trying to seem confident about their push on me while trying to hide any evidence of how they reached that read - the confidence comes off as completely fraudulent and the reasoning comes off as amended after the fact.

Eira likely decided they need to push me for wincon probably because I am correct in my reads to some degree IMO and this is why we see this mad dash to try to case me in such a way after OMGUSing me.

Frankly it is shocking that no one else sees what I see in that Eira is basically howling in the way they have been caught in a very poorly spun web of lies.

I implore people to begin at Eira's posts about lowell and see how they progressed into pushing me - I think you can find there is a strong agenda feel to it.

I think this next post brings up a salient point - it's a bit weird for Eira to suss someone who has the same two scumreads as himself. Although I think Eira just has problems communicating their reads (as evidenced by the confusing use of null in place of what most people would call a townlean or scumlean), and this conversation reads like two people kind of talking past each other.

Spoiler:

i mean i've affirmed my willingnes to vote mala and ive said lowell is in the bottom of my pile so this entire reasoning here(along with mala inactive total null) for a team is... what? just the three u find most scummy?



game solved well played bravo

You say that but you did not vote Mala with me when I was voting there for pressure nor did you maintain your vote on lowell. you jumped to this uncharitable assumption that I must be scum *merely for including you alongside 2 other people you claim to also find not town*

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I will be v/la until Sunday afternoonish

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I will be v/la until Sunday afternoonish

@mod

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Third: CSF's vote change was out of the blue. I found absolutely no clue as to why it happened. There was no reason given. Between CSF voting you and changing back to Lowell there were exactly three posts by CSF: CW is town; CSF's too cute to be scum; answer to my question regarding Mala. That's the thing that felt odd and not the fact that the vote went from you to Lowell. Why you think I am unhappy with CSF's change is beyond me.

I never really felt confident that Eira was scum. I just voted there, because I was bored and wanted to see what would happen

I'm pretty sure I switched my vote soon after

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Eiralox does have players outside of his nullbin, or at least I assume that's what they meant. So why not then seperate either kenny or cw from the nullbin then, is my current objection.

Why is this scummy behavior?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Cw has been the most vocal opposition to a lofting wagon

I have not voted lofting either though i am more amenable to the idea

[Cat Scratch Fever]

UNVOTE: Loftwing

Loftwing has offered us nothing. they've been.... openly non-committal. Seeing as it's at -1 im unvoting to give Loft time, some1 might go on and hammer anyway at this point and i don't see the value in that. at least.... try.



but in a twisted way loftwing can still flip town so idk..... will i vote there again? lowell wagon... no. fred? i can totally see scum fred, but the fact that they thoroughly asked me to share my viewpoint then shifted to mala is.... something which makes me wary of mobbing fred 2day.

So loftwing idk i mean i guess my vote can shift back to u at this point, i'm not having options atm. but i wann at least give you time... if u do nothing impressive in the interim well meh.

Unless Eiralox is gambling on Loftwing going out anyway/can rely on the wagon being pushed through by fellow scum, this is an incredibly townie post given Eiralox has been under pressure themselves and has been a possible elimination for the latter half of day one. Even if they don't feel they can vote Loftwing if the slot is town, I don't think there would be any benefit for scum actively leaving the wagon at the moment.

This post seems to exclusively assume loftwing will flip town - why?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

*why did you not consider eiralox and loftwing to be s/s?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

UNVOTE: Loftwing

Loftwing has offered us nothing. they've been.... openly non-committal. Seeing as it's at -1 im unvoting to give Loft time, some1 might go on and hammer anyway at this point and i don't see the value in that. at least.... try.



but in a twisted way loftwing can still flip town so idk..... will i vote there again? lowell wagon... no. fred? i can totally see scum fred, but the fact that they thoroughly asked me to share my viewpoint then shifted to mala is.... something which makes me wary of mobbing fred 2day.

So loftwing idk i mean i guess my vote can shift back to u at this point, i'm not having options atm. but i wann at least give you time... if u do nothing impressive in the interim well meh.

Unless Eiralox is gambling on Loftwing going out anyway/can rely on the wagon being pushed through by fellow scum, this is an incredibly townie post given Eiralox has been under pressure themselves and has been a possible elimination for the latter half of day one. Even if they don't feel they can vote Loftwing if the slot is town, I don't think there would be any benefit for scum actively leaving the wagon at the moment.

This post seems to exclusively assume loftwing will flip town - why?

It's not, I'm explaining why I don't think Eiralox is scum by reasoning why they wouldn't back off Loftwing if they were.

You didn’t consider that Eiralox and loftwing were svs

If loftwing flipped scum (which you should be considering giving you’re voting for them), what would you conclude about Eiralox’s alignment

[Cat Scratch Fever]

20 hours left and I don't like either of the leading wagons.

Fantastic stuff.

Then make a case for yours!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm back from my trip, but I'm kind of mentally dead bc hangover

I was town on Fred, because they seem to be naturally reassessing their reads (their reads would change at times when I thought it made sense to), but if it comes down to the wire, i will probably be willing to vote anyone.

Does anyone townread Lowell? I'd be interested in hearing why

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Fred jumped off of eiralox before irrel or cw. That felt distinctly towny, and i don't see how that is sheeping

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I should be around to hammer if needed

But I'm not feeling the case

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Mala is still holding onto her RVS vote :/

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I should be around to hammer if needed

But I'm not feeling the case

Btw about the case

I feel like the lhf that Fred voted for are scummy (Lowell, mala)

Malcolm also mentioned early that he doesn't tend to vote much as a playstyle

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Shame how this day ended. I believe Fred's claim and that he will flip town.

CW's townblock from 543 was pretty good, and I feel like we should have stuck to that.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

GG

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no idea either, my reads were trash