Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[FancyPants]

Alright, where are we at in this game?

Slowly reading and catching up. Have we got a recent VC at all?

I'm fairly sure this is right (our mod is VLA for now)

Unofficial Vote Count

Loftwing (2): FancyPants, Lowell
Malakittens (2): Fredrick A Campbell, Loftwing
Confidently Wrong (2): Eiralox, Irrelephant11
Lowell (1): Cat Scratch Fever
kennyk (1): BlueBloodedToffee
MalcolmTucker (1): Shoshin
BlueBloodedTofee (1): Malakittens
FancyPants (1): kennyk
Eiralox (1) : Confidently Wrong


Not Voting (2): MalcolmTucker
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

I'm a bit busy tonight so can't comment on the recent content other than I like the activity will comment tomorrow.

Also @DrKoba, why are you here? Have you replaced somebody?

[Confidently Wrong]

Alright, where are we at in this game?

Slowly reading and catching up. Have we got a recent VC at all?

I'm fairly sure this is right (our mod is VLA for now)

Unofficial Vote Count

Loftwing (2): FancyPants, Lowell
Malakittens (2): Fredrick A Campbell, Loftwing
Confidently Wrong (2): Eiralox, Irrelephant11
Lowell (1): Cat Scratch Fever
kennyk (1): BlueBloodedToffee
MalcolmTucker (1): Shoshin
BlueBloodedTofee (1): Malakittens
FancyPants (1): kennyk
Eiralox (1) : Confidently Wrong


Not Voting (2): MalcolmTucker
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

I'm a bit busy tonight so can't comment on the recent content other than I like the activity will comment tomorrow.

Also @DrKoba, why are you here? Have you replaced somebody?

irrelephant is voting for eira with me

and dkkoba is me if you read literally 1 post below

[FancyPants]

Loftwing (2): FancyPants, Lowell
Malakittens (2): Fredrick A Campbell, Loftwing
Eiralox (2) : Confidently Wrong, , Irrelephant11
Confidently Wrong (1): Eiralox
Lowell (1): Cat Scratch Fever
kennyk (1): BlueBloodedToffee
MalcolmTucker (1): Shoshin
BlueBloodedTofee (1): Malakittens
FancyPants (1): kennyk

Not Voting (1): MalcolmTucker

Sorry only skimming tonight.

@CW, understood but this:

What interactions are scum indicative? please share with the class

ope this is my main lmao

Is vague.

[Eiralox]

those are not logical reasons

what a response. you haven't offered anything of note imo. i think the lloyd attack is the only thing of substance, imma yet to study that. you are way to bouncy with your votes and townreads and they don't correlate. questioning my logic is one thing, not directly addressing my points is another.

and i'm not feeling so good about @Irrelephant now. maybe they're offline, maybe not, but if u vote someone be there to back it up. i hope they can weigh in on their reasoning in their own time.

[Confidently Wrong]

those are not logical reasons

what a response. you haven't offered anything of note imo. i think the lloyd attack is the only thing of substance, imma yet to study that. you are way to bouncy with your votes and townreads and they don't correlate. questioning my logic is one thing, not directly addressing my points is another.

and i'm not feeling so good about @Irrelephant now. maybe they're offline, maybe not, but if u vote someone be there to back it up. i hope they can weigh in on their reasoning in their own time.

i could do my usual and go on and mock your reasons with examples of what youve listed from confirmed townies in other games to show how ridiculous the reasoning is but I decided to save the trouble and simply call them out for what they are: illogical reasons.

[Eiralox]

those are not logical reasons

what a response. you haven't offered anything of note imo. i think the lloyd attack is the only thing of substance, imma yet to study that. you are way to bouncy with your votes and townreads and they don't correlate. questioning my logic is one thing, not directly addressing my points is another.

and i'm not feeling so good about @Irrelephant now. maybe they're offline, maybe not, but if u vote someone be there to back it up. i hope they can weigh in on their reasoning in their own time.

i could do my usual and go on and mock your reasons with examples of what youve listed from confirmed townies in other games to show how ridiculous the reasoning is but I decided to save the trouble and simply call them out for what they are: illogical reasons.

i dont give a fuck about other games. they dint exist if im in one. do as you please. and sure continue to be evasive. rn im feeling worse and worse about you.

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: Loftwing

Subject to change but time to cast a vote somewhere. Not confident their opportunistic jumping around from wagon to wagon is townie. The vote on Mala felt particularly opportunistic as I said earlier on.

[Loftwing]

Spoiler:

Meta research

(I only used games that were finished)
I'm only skimming threads and ISO's so this is by no means comprehensive.

Kenny

Town Games

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=87906

Town win this game but Kenny doesn't vote much, he seems to be at his best in a mass roleclaim scenario when he can work out the odds.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=87906&start=150

Scum win here, Kenny again doesn't vote that much and tends to be prone to indecision, he is endgammed when the town can't align.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=87429

This game is long, Kenny gets elimmed, again he seems hesitant to vote much, he always seems to perk up a bit when there are people dead and roles revealed, seems like he likes to wait for serious evidence before voting.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=88158

More of the same town lose Kenny typically only votes if there is role evidence or if he's the hammering vote. On one occasion he does vote for someone who sussed him.

Scum Games

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=89164

Kenny doesn't vote a single person, and replaces out, scum do win this game eventually, seems like Kenny had some personal stuff going on so it's hard to get much from this.

tl:dr;

It seems like it's pretty typical for Kenny to not vote or take strong stances as town and scum, however it's difficult to get a reference because his only scum game he barely posts and replaces out and his claimed reason was life issues.
I'm still a bit suspicious of him but I can only conclude based on the admittedly shakey evidence of a quick meta scan that I think we can do better than Kenny on day 1, it

appears

his attitude this game matches his town game.

I'm going to UNVOTE: KennyK for now and do quick scan on Loftwing, but I'm already leaning towards him before I do it (full disclosure).

Meta research

Loftwing

Town Games

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88188

Loftwing does seem more active this game, notably they post a readlist on post 143, whereas in this game at 161 he claims no reads.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88188

This game is too confusing with lots of confusing role stuff. Loftwing does take a slightly more aggresive tone which he hasn't done this game.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88129

They barely participate in this game and get voted out day 1. Hard to take anything out of it, claims to have been bored.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87720

He replaces out of this one but his general tone is more game-solvey than our current game.

tl:dr;

No scum games and not much to go on from these but I do think Loft-town tries harder in general than he has this game.

I vaguely regret doing this meta dive, I don't think reading so many posts has really helped me clarify my thoughts but I like kenny slightly more and Loft slightly less, I'm voting Loft for these reasons:

- This game he voted Kenny, and then quickly backed off for very little reason (this is worse for him if Kenny is actually town).
- Hasn't made any attempt to scumhunt, only voting the two biggest lurkers.
- Process of elimination from town reads.
- Finally on meta he seems far more passive than his usual town games.

VOTE: Loftwing

I apologies for the post length.

@Lowell, can you clarify why Shosh and Fred are scum leans for you?

Ysk that this isn't my main account, my main is Jake.

[MalcolmTucker]

I think Eiralox is town from the past couple of pages.

[MalcolmTucker]

Lowell was mad bc he thought malcom would be an easy mislim

Not sure I follow with this. I'd gotten a little bit of attention but the only player who's tried to put any sustained pressure on me has made, like, 13 posts or something. Irrelephant pushed a bit but was clearly on the fence. Lowell could be scum based on their general play but the change of their read on me felt like it could come from town who's read had evolved.

[Loftwing]

Loftwing: Taking one of my posts as the reason for a vote on me and later using the same post as a reason to unvoting and even defending me really feels strange. scumleann

I'll restate it here for effect: My initial reasoning for voting you was because I thought you provided nothing of substance in terms of reads and, critically, that you were trying to pass that post off as if it was a readlist.

My later reasoning was that you has said that you were not intending for it to be a readlist, which means that my initial reasoning was flawed because that post wasn't a readlist, it was your thoughts on the game.

[Confidently Wrong]

I think Eiralox is town from the past couple of pages.

Why?

[Loftwing]

VOTE: Loftwing

Subject to change but time to cast a vote somewhere. Not confident their opportunistic jumping around from wagon to wagon is townie. The vote on Mala felt particularly opportunistic as I said earlier on.

It was oppertunistic, an oppertunity to sow the fertile fields of clarification. To garner the information that I require. It is a very effectual method for gathering information, as it is pointed and relevant to what I need at that moment.

[Confidently Wrong]

VOTE: Loftwing

Subject to change but time to cast a vote somewhere. Not confident their opportunistic jumping around from wagon to wagon is townie. The vote on Mala felt particularly opportunistic as I said earlier on.

I think fundamentally the reasons you are presenting for reading people is flawed and not consistent(results wise) in any way.

So I envision it shall be difficult to convince you similarly to the last time we played together.


Jumping around wagon to wagon is not a scum behavior.

[Confidently Wrong]

The assumption that Mala is town rather than a PoE'd scum is quite concerning to see because it is going to lead to terrible conclusions like I already see based on how people are treating the slot.

Mala is probably mafia in my eyes and to defend that slot for bad reasons is not helpful at all. Stop it.

If they're town you can be confident they'll post out of it and show it. Defending them preemptively when clearly their posts have shown 0 urgency to solve or play and should be *at best* null to you is very silly.

[Confidently Wrong]

personally i think the game is solved fmpov

with [Lowell/Eira/Mala] as the most likely team

and then as bonus PoE: [BBT/kennyk]

Every other player I feel a confident enough reason to townread them.

kennyk is also never paired with Lowell

[Eiralox]

strange that youre only now typing longer than single or double sentences CW >.<


i got mah eyes in u

[Confidently Wrong]

And to ellaborate more on Eira - when reading their posts it comes off as someone trying to seem confident about their push on me while trying to hide any evidence of how they reached that read - the confidence comes off as completely fraudulent and the reasoning comes off as amended after the fact.

Eira likely decided they need to push me for wincon probably because I am correct in my reads to some degree IMO and this is why we see this mad dash to try to case me in such a way after OMGUSing me.

Frankly it is shocking that no one else sees what I see in that Eira is basically howling in the way they have been caught in a very poorly spun web of lies.

I implore people to begin at Eira's posts about lowell and see how they progressed into pushing me - I think you can find there is a strong agenda feel to it.

[Eiralox]

i mean i've affirmed my willingnes to vote mala and ive said lowell is in the bottom of my pile so this entire reasoning here(along with mala inactive total null) for a team is... what? just the three u find most scummy?



game solved well played bravo

[Confidently Wrong]

strange that youre only now typing longer than single or double sentences CW >.<


i got mah eyes in u

You made the mistake of flipping my WIM switch, which turns on as soon as anyone makes a shitpush at me.

[Eiralox]

And to ellaborate more on Eira - when reading their posts it comes off as someone trying to seem confident about their push on me while trying to hide any evidence of how they reached that read - the confidence comes off as completely fraudulent and the reasoning comes off as amended after the fact.

Eira likely decided they need to push me for wincon probably because I am correct in my reads to some degree IMO and this is why we see this mad dash to try to case me in such a way after OMGUSing me.

Frankly it is shocking that no one else sees what I see in that Eira is basically howling in the way they have been caught in a very poorly spun web of lies.

I implore people to begin at Eira's posts about lowell and see how they progressed into pushing me - I think you can find there is a strong agenda feel to it.

no u

[Confidently Wrong]

i mean i've affirmed my willingnes to vote mala and ive said lowell is in the bottom of my pile so this entire reasoning here(along with mala inactive total null) for a team is... what? just the three u find most scummy?



game solved well played bravo

You say that but you did not vote Mala with me when I was voting there for pressure nor did you maintain your vote on lowell. you jumped to this uncharitable assumption that I must be scum *merely for including you alongside 2 other people you claim to also find not town*

[Confidently Wrong]

I am someone who reads every post and remembers nearly everything in a game. Nothing slips by me unless I replace in late.

[Confidently Wrong]

i mean i've affirmed my willingnes to vote mala and ive said lowell is in the bottom of my pile so this entire reasoning here(along with mala inactive total null) for a team is... what? just the three u find most scummy?



game solved well played bravo

You say that but you did not vote Mala with me when I was voting there for pressure nor did you maintain your vote on lowell. you jumped to this uncharitable assumption that I must be scum *merely for including you alongside 2 other people you claim to also find not town*

To add on to that - You voted me *as I was voting Lowell*

[Eiralox]

strange that youre only now typing longer than single or double sentences CW >.<


i got mah eyes in u

You made the mistake of flipping my WIM switch, which turns on as soon as anyone makes a shitpush at me.

i dont know what that swithc is. i flip switches.


uuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh?????? your shitty push at me? naming me scum for no reason and only expanding read after i vote u and only voting after irrelpant votes? You've been hiding this entire game. only now do you 'solve' everything.... i mean???? in what world do you pair me with lowell and mara? i'm happy to flip either of 'em if that'kll stroke your switches or whatever you use



suck on another one.