Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[kennyk]

And now to the big things.

I guess I will start with CW (or his alt DkKoba). I had two games with him so far. In one he was scum and I on the receiving end of his scum push. It was hell. The other I was scum and had a fun time watching the battle that evolved after I had to be replaced.

Both times CW was trying to partly take over the thread and what we have seen here is far from the "bullying big ball raccoon" in those two games. But at least I can relate to Eira being annoyed or frustrated by CW (as far as his playstyle is concerned).

Allthough they were sometimes being served a bit rude (not quite the word I want here, but can't think of a better one right now, even in my native language) CWs arguments against Eira had a point as they were directed at things that were off.

The often cited "Eira went off after CWs vote and pushed CW for the mala/lowell/Eira thing" is the most prominent of them. I never read CWs post as a "those three are for sure connected scum" list. It is more like a "those three are the most scummiest for me right now". It would be very dubious if anyone had a list with three players on them who are all connected scum on day one in any normal game.

Eiras unwillingness to discuss with CW is something I can fully understand. I was very short of doing the same thing myself in said game, but never voiced it. But later refusing to talk to others as well felt way off, but could be due to his bad temper from his discussion with CW as it has softened quite a bit (thanks to Fred).

Allthough I still stand by my word, that I would be willing to do a policy elim on Mala because of her inactivity, I don't think Eiras "why kill me, an active player" is a feasible argument. And maybe I have to specify the policy elim: I am willing to do a Mala policy elim only if there is is no other, reasonable elim that is going to find a majority.

So in short: Eira in my eyes got the worse out of this dispute and is downgraded in my reads.

[kennyk]

I am not caught up in this game.

Two competing wagons is spicy though. I want to get involved

You want a wagon of your own?

[kennyk]

Lowell

Why did you change your mind?

[Irrelephant11]

So in short: Eira in my eyes got the worse out of this dispute and is downgraded in my reads.

enough to place a vote there?

[Loftwing]

Loftwing now you straight up lie. If you have paid any attention youda seen I lean green on malcolm, elephant, cat.

Kenny and cw null. Ive felt better about kenny and worse about cw.

VOTE: Loftwing

Scummiest one on me. Ill come back later in day with analysis. Peace.

How am I lying? You've stated at least thrice that eveeyone is null. Up to this very post you have yet to make a distinction between a nullread and any other read, amd even now I am suspicious about whether or not those 3 players you have listed as leaning green are acutally a townlean for you, or if they are actually still null.

Spoiler: A brief history of Eiralox categorizing everyone as null

fancypants iso: feels town. throws a broad net.

scum! arguments that they tunnel on loftwing and kenny, but that's not strong enough a theme for eira to be concerned about atm.

out of the 12 players in my null pile, pants is greenish

.

your reads you posted earlier feel very half hearted and ingenuine


and your treatment of lowell felt very distancy - in the sense that you are even currently willing to vote me over lowell after never expressing an actual townread there - and also stated you were basing scumreads off that slot.


all in all it seems you are trying to flip townies while positioning yourself as having your partner Lowell in your scumreads to later try to claim you pushed them all along.

lol.. '

alll 12 of ya are in my null pile.

i got feels but dont expect me to stay on d1 votes. and i'm not gonna defend myself against this, i have no concern about this line of reasoning bearing fruition.

you woulda done better by saying i was protecting my scum partner mala, there's more playroom for an attack for you there.

i mean i've affirmed my willingnes to vote mala and ive said lowell is in the bottom of my pile so this entire reasoning here(along with mala inactive total null) for a team is... what? just the three u find most scummy?



game solved well played bravo

You say that but you did not vote Mala with me when I was voting there for pressure nor did you maintain your vote on lowell. you jumped to this uncharitable assumption that I must be scum *merely for including you alongside 2 other people you claim to also find not town*

i never scumread u dolt!

read and remeber everything my ass i said im not scumreading u and alll 12 are still null

, nut im feeling way worse about u now then i did back then.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why are null reads scummy?

[Loftwing]

I worry some people are confusing Eiralox's abrassive posting style for scum. Not sure scum gets into such a deliberate dogfight with CW here, it's clearly not helped Eiralox and unless they're on a mission to eliminate themselves I fail to see why scum would take such an approach.

Loftwing's vote above is, again, incredibly opportunistic.

My quarrel with Eiralox isn't an emotional one, but a logical one.

My opportunism is due in part because this is the most effective use of my time here. If I am unable to extract information from Mala because most players do not wish to go that way, then is it not in vain to turn the tides of destiny away from where they wish to go? Is it not more reasonable to instead follow them as far as I am willing to go?

I believe you are missing why I am being opportunistic, and are instead calling it out as if it is a bad thing in it of itself.

This isn't a bad post but feels very, very carefully thought-out as a justification for the vote.

Your options here surely aren't just Eiralox/Mala? You could focus on someone else if you wanted to. My concern is you appear to be seeing potentially viable wagons forming and almost instantly jump on them. I don't feel like you're thinking particularly independently here, which is one of my main issues.

It is true, that I could attempt to try and form a new wagon by myself, to create the tides of destiny instead of merely riding them, however that would take an active role for my part, instead of a more passive role wherein a wagon is suggested and I analyze the person being wagoned to see if there is something to be desired. In this case, there is.

If you would like my in depth thoughts on a particular player, feel free to ask me. Mafia is a social game, after all.

[Loftwing]

Why are null reads scummy?

They aren't inherently scummy, even holding a royal estate of all 12 at once (of which I am now slightly kess sure of), but what troubles me is that they both equare Kenny and CW this way as null, yet also divide them in twain with Kenny being better than CW.

They are both different, and yet also the same.

[Confidently Wrong]

I've made it clear that the reason Eiras reads are scummy is because they have shoddy reasoning that comes from trying to fake reasoning when you know the answer.

I think Eira is obvious in the sense that if any of you were spectating this game and were not a player, you would immediately find Eira obvious mafia. But the fact of being a player there is a paranoia of wanting to not be wrong and biasing the overt scumtells as not damning.

I understand the hesitency, but if you look at how Eira is approaching the game and interpreting it, it is pretty cut and dry that they already know the answers and cant make real reads. Essentially I think they come off as a bad liar.

[Confidently Wrong]

I have Eira basically locked in as mafia and there is nothing that can happen that will cause me to stray from this course. The evidence is there. It is reasonable and it should prove that Eira is mafia. I'm going to be passive about the Mala and Lowell wagons as I like info but I'm actively against the current loftwing wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Shoddy reasoning for null reads?

[Confidently Wrong]

Personally i think the null thing is a slip in trying to come off as uninformed but I don't think it will get me closer to concretely casing them. Its simply something thats explained as forced uninformedness if scum and plausibly just a playstyle quirk if town.
Judging by past games where this was not present i am doubtful - but overall I ask to look at the process they are presenting and how it consists of strictly listing facts with weak, forced feeling analysis

[kennyk]

So in short: Eira in my eyes got the worse out of this dispute and is downgraded in my reads.

enough to place a vote there?

Yes, I see Eira as the better option for the elim than a policy elim. In fact I thought Eira was still at E-2 and as Fred correctly stated: we don't need to see a fast D1 elim. So I didn't put my vote there yet. But somehow I totally ignored the shift in Fred's vote.

VOTE: Eiralox

[kennyk]

Why are null reads scummy?

They aren't inherently scummy, even holding a royal estate of all 12 at once (of which I am now slightly kess sure of), but what troubles me is that they both equare Kenny and CW this way as null, yet also divide them in twain with Kenny being better than CW.

They are both different, and yet also the same.

Didn't Irrelephant kind of sorted this out? For Eira there are three read levels: scum, null and town. Eira's null is what most of us decide into scum lean, null and town lean.

So I would translate Eira's read into
me = townlean and
CW = scumlean

I doubt that it is a scum slip but I might do some research in older Eira games about this topic.

[Shoshin]

I'm catching up now, looks like I missed a lot.

[Shoshin]

Hey Irrel, are you around?

[Malakittens]

ngl

i'm prob not gonna read the thread

i just don't care enough to do so.

only time i might is if i think i need to to avoid an elim

[Confidently Wrong]

ngl

i'm prob not gonna read the thread

i just don't care enough to do so.

only time i might is if i think i need to to avoid an elim

can u tell us what eira is saying in scumchat

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Mala

[Malakittens]

i dont have scum chat

[Shoshin]

CW/Malcolm/Mala is plausible team.

[Malakittens]

ok.

eria feels scummy on p3.
i had a scumvibe on Fancypants on P2, but it might have been premature
bbt is town, kbye.

[Malakittens]

Won't be online:
25 June 2022, Saturday, UTC+0, 0300 to 0600, 1303 to 2303
26 June 2022, Sunday, UTC+0, 1303 to 2303
27 June 2022, Monday, UTC+0, 1303 to 2303
28 June 2022, Tuesday, UTC+0, 0400 to 0600, 1303 to 2303

I won't be online at those times because I will be busy with your parental units at those times

disgusting

and not for alignment purposes

[Shoshin]

Eira is probably my top townread, Mala. What was scummy on p3?

[Malakittens]

fred is prob scum there's multiple posts i hate. some of them are feeling like they are trying to act new while not being new, some of them look like helpful filler posts and others are just very scummy in general. he also seems to be "ok with going after lower posts" which reeks like scum doing an easy push without starting it themselves.

irrel feels town
bbt feels town
mt feels town
facnypants is prob my strongest town read an di'm up to p9