Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[Aristeia]

it's just weird to me the whole exchange from 1079-1089.

1079: Penguin votes for hutmeil
1080: VPB: "The hutmeil wagon gives me majorly bad vibes as being too easy."
1084: VPB: "I can see momentum lazily shifting that way. I'm just calling it out before it takes off as a wagon of resignation.
Your vote seems bad to me especially."
1088: VPB: "if I think it's a bad wagon on a newbie, why is it weird?"
1089: VPB votes Penguin.

Like if you think Penguin is scum who is pushing a Lazy LHF wagon on Hutmeil why would you say;

"That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so." in 1356?

I don't really see the point of elimming hutmeil who you think is town just to get "information" that's just ??? to me.

[VP Baltar]

1368 said that you seem to scumread pengu for his vote on hutmeil

you deny it and list other reasons for scumreading him in 1371

but the thing i bolded makes it seem like you scumread him for that vote

idk if i'm just being dumb and missing something obvious

I think the confusion is in when I told ari it is "incorrect". What I mean there is that it is incorrect that it is as simple as the hutmeil vote. I think there are broader things about Penguins response to that pressure that I found scummier than just the vote alone.

That being said, at the time of the vote it was a good enough reason to pressure given the hutmeil wagon was in fact gaining lazy steam and penguin put a naked vote there.

So incorrect was probably not a good word choice on my part, because there is some truth to it being where I started to not like penguins play, but I don't see my vote as being strictly about that vote alone. Ari seemed to be trying to point to a contradiction (voting hutmeil =bad, but flipping hutmeil = good), which I don't think is accurate to my viewpoint, or something I even necessarily see as a contradiction.

[Aristeia]

PenguinPower is V/LA on weekends.

also like scumreading penguin for "disappearing" when he's VLA on weekends and this is a pretty big holiday weekend in the states feels kind of icky

[VP Baltar]

"That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so." in 1356?

I don't really see the point of elimming hutmeil who you think is town just to get "information" that's just ??? to me.

This is where you are getting into dumbshit territory. All you can do on a D1 is push what you think is the best elim, and most times that is wrong. Getting information from a misyeet is at least salvaging something from the likelihood we miselim on D1.

You have definitely played enough games to know this.

[VP Baltar]

PenguinPower is V/LA on weekends.

also like scumreading penguin for "disappearing" when he's VLA on weekends and this is a pretty big holiday weekend in the states feels kind of icky

He also hasn't posted since Thursday. So this is a level zero take.

[Aristeia]

"That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so." in 1356?

I don't really see the point of elimming hutmeil who you think is town just to get "information" that's just ??? to me.

This is where you are getting into dumbshit territory. All you can do on a D1 is push what you think is the best elim, and most times that is wrong. Getting information from a misyeet is at least salvaging something from the likelihood we miselim on D1.

You have definitely played enough games to know this.

You also gain information if you yeet someone you suspect and they turn out to be town.

Do you have an example of a completed game where you are "ok" with limming someone you think is town just for "information" ?

[Aristeia]

PenguinPower is V/LA on weekends.

also like scumreading penguin for "disappearing" when he's VLA on weekends and this is a pretty big holiday weekend in the states feels kind of icky

He also hasn't posted since Thursday. So this is a level zero take.

The weekend happens after Thursday, I don't see why you are confident he has disappeared because his alignment is mafia rather than because he had RL plans for this weekend and happens to not have access or doesn't want to play during the weekend because he is maybe enjoying himself.

[VP Baltar]

Do you have an example of a completed game where you are "ok" with limming someone you think is town just for "information" ?

I'm not voting for hutmeil. Why are you acting like I'm endorsing his yeet as if I am?

[VP Baltar]

Here is pick your poison, which you were in. I would say I was pushing a moderate scum read (Gamma emerald) for information purposes, and the yeet went onto Darby. I didn't oppose that, and even found darby's play right before death surprisingly scummy.

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=

[VP Baltar]

Oh wait, darby flipped red lol. Let me find a better example

[Aristeia]

Do you have an example of a completed game where you are "ok" with limming someone you think is town just for "information" ?

I'm not voting for hutmeil. Why are you acting like I'm endorsing his yeet as if I am?

Yeah, I think the Americans are less than tuned into mafia this weekend (myself included).

That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so.

I think 1356 is basically an endorsement

[VP Baltar]

Mini 2195, I voted Italiano on a whim because the game was dragging and we needed a lim to move it forward with information. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85877&start=1625

[VP Baltar]

Do you have an example of a completed game where you are "ok" with limming someone you think is town just for "information" ?

I'm not voting for hutmeil. Why are you acting like I'm endorsing his yeet as if I am?

Yeah, I think the Americans are less than tuned into mafia this weekend (myself included).

That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so.

I think 1356 is basically an endorsement

Who do you think I'd prefer you to vote? This is a very surface level point you're trying to push.

[Aristeia]

well the point I am making is that your posting is incongruent. You say you are scumreading Peng for his hutmeil vote but you seem fine with hutmeil being voted out. That feels more like scum exploiting t-t than town with a scumread.

[Aristeia]

also not mentioning the third wagon of fire feels like soft defending him without really naming him

[Aristeia]

Mini 2195, I voted Italiano on a whim because the game was dragging and we needed a lim to move it forward with information. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85877&start=1625

skimmed a bit of this and I will read it later when I have time because it looks like Dats put you in his pocket all the way till elo and let you cast the losing vote which is fun.

[VP Baltar]

well the point I am making is that your posting is incongruent. You say you are scumreading Peng for his hutmeil vote but you seem fine with hutmeil being voted out. That feels more like scum exploiting t-t than town with a scumread.

It's not incongruent at all. I opposed the mala-hut dueling wagons because I thought that was t-t. I don't think thats the case here, and you aren't that dumb.

But hey, if we want to make it Penguin-Ari or Penguin-andante wagons, I'd have a real dilemma on my hand.

[VP Baltar]

also not mentioning the third wagon of fire feels like soft defending him without really naming him

Feels like you're hard defending Penguin here.

[Aristeia]

do you actually believe that or do you just think it sounds good as a comeback?

[VP Baltar]

do you actually believe that or do you just think it sounds good as a comeback?

I don't think you're making a good faith point here, so clearly you have some motivation that is not transparent.

[VP Baltar]

The weekend happens after Thursday,

Like, this is some wild shit to say and then question why I might think you're openly pushing against a penguin yeet here.

[Aristeia]

I find your reasons for wanting to yeet penguin not very compelling and I find your proposed dichotomy suspicious.

[Aristeia]

do you actually believe that or do you just think it sounds good as a comeback?

I don't think you're making a good faith point here, so clearly you have some motivation that is not transparent.

a hard defense by definition is to say someone is town because ?insertgoodreasonhere?.

I have not hard defended penguin because I do not even have a townread on penguin.

[VP Baltar]

Quick, what's your bullet point case on fire again?

[Gamma Emerald]

Here is pick your poison, which you were in. I would say I was pushing a moderate scum read (Gamma emerald) for information purposes, and the yeet went onto Darby. I didn't oppose that, and even found darby's play right before death surprisingly scummy.

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=

You kinda just revealed Ari’s main atp