large normal 239. game over

[KittyTacky]

I waited so long for this game to start. Exams?

Anyways, I remember playing with a large chunk of the player list.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: KittyTacky

You're making a terrible mistake, I'm Jester.

[KittyTacky]

Yeah I don't feel this Nero is particularly similar to his town play.

[KittyTacky]

I won't vote him so early, but I'll scrutinize his posts more.

[KittyTacky]

?????

joking about being a jester is dumb

No u.

[KittyTacky]

ok kool. Still think the 3 in a 16 is dumb though.

It is, probably. But who knows, scum might be packin' heat.

I can't even think of what would make 13:3 balanced. Scum vig? Multiple roleblockers? Multiple-shot neighborizer?

[KittyTacky]

so kitty r u gonna engage me or are you just trying to keep me at arms length?

Do you really expect me to try to case you on page 6? I don't case people this early.

ok kool. Still think the 3 in a 16 is dumb though.

It is, probably. But who knows, scum might be packin' heat.

I can't even think of what would make 13:3 balanced. Scum vig? Multiple roleblockers? Multiple-shot neighborizer?

You have no idea on what balance is, apparently.

Balance here would be offsetting a severely outnumbered mafia by giving them a ton of power. But I doubt it's 13:3.

I won't vote him so early, but I'll scrutinize his posts more.

The more people post the more scumreads I have.

The cardinal sin of waiting for more posts from a player before seeing whether to commit to a read or not.

[KittyTacky]

The post only exists to paint Nero in a worse light with no elaboration or catalyst. Dare I say I think that's shade?

But yeah it comes off like "hey I think Nero is shady....so if anyone wants to wagon that for me, that'd be great."

Except it's not great.

The catalyst was Italiano's case.

Balance here would be offsetting a severely outnumbered mafia by giving them a ton of power. But I doubt it's 13:3.

BS.VOTE: KittyTacky

So 13:3 isn't tilted in town's favor? I don't understand what's BS here. Kinda sketchy NGL.

Do you really expect me to try to case you on page 6? I don't case people this early.

no, but you said that you didn't think that this was similar to my town game and you could use words to back that statement up. Odc you can just say you were sheeping VD.

The cardinal sin of waiting for more posts from a player before seeing whether to commit to a read or not.

you are being hesitant. It's also early game and I'm nowhere near elimination range...the whole "I need to see whether to commit" sounds like a fence sit.

1. Yeah I was sheeping Italiano for the most part. I'll admit it. Though I also get a different vibe from your play this game. It's hard to explain.
2. What's wrong with just being somewhat cautious this early?

[KittyTacky]

So 13:3 isn't tilted in town's favor? I don't understand what's BS here. Kinda sketchy NGL.

Correct. 13:3 Mountainous isn't tilted in town's favor. It's scumsided.

Is Mountainous even normal? Like sure, it fits the guidelines, but I have never heard of one being run in the normal queue. Towns usually have several fairly strong PRs in larges.

[KittyTacky]

I'm a traitor
VOTE: over90

Why did you do this?

Same reason I claimed jester.

[KittyTacky]

Responses in bold.

A big part of why I think Kitty could be scum is the way that they have responded to suspicion in this game. When one is scum, the question of how to respond to a vote/suspicion is, I think, a pretty tricky one, and something that a lot of players as scum will have to intentionally think about, and I think Kitty's responses align with scum feeling the need to respond in a certain way, rather than a natural town response.

The first example of this is here:

VOTE: KittyTacky

You're making a terrible mistake, I'm Jester.

Which would be a pretty harmless joke on its own, and at first I didn't think anything of it, but then it is a lot more pronounced in 139

Statements like "Do you really expect me to try to case you on page 6? I don't case people this early." don't actually match what Nero was asking, and make out Nero to be unreasonable.

How does it not match, and yes it was unreasonable to shade me for not wanting to case early.

And "The cardinal sin of waiting for more posts from a player before seeing whether to commit to a read or not." - is an insistence that what Kitty is doing is totally reasonable and shouldn't be suspected, again that any suspicion of Kitty is unsubstantiated (though note that in this case RCE didn't even provide a reason for thinking that Kitty was scum).

Because I am town and FMPOV suspecting me is unreasonable.

So instead of being confident in their role PM being town, Kitty feels the need to essentially belittle any suspicion against them, even when the suspicion itself is quite trivial and low-impact.

This contradicts your previous point.

--

I also don't like the Nero thing, as I don't really believe that they truly have that read.

Well I do so it's your word versus mine.

--

over90, I would like to know why you townread Kitty.

PEdit: Tbf carcalilly, no one was actually shading kitty for not casing early. That was a narrative that Kitty themselves created.

The 3 votes on me say otherwise.

[KittyTacky]

2. What's wrong with just being somewhat cautious this early?

I think early game is the best time to not be cautious and it looks like you just know I'm town that is afraid to vote me. I mean maybe I can understand that you are suspicious of me but that suspicion hasn't formed into a full on scum read yet but still seems iffy to me.

Last game I pushed several people early and they were all town. I don't want to repeat my mistakes.

what did you like about VD's case?

It felt townish on gut and your play does actually feel different this game to me now that he pointed it out.

and now your case is that I haven't done enough.

Wrong.

Even though there hasn't been much of anything in this game so far, I feel town!you would've done more by now.

is this not a change in reasoning? I mean maybe you could argue that it's something you are adding onto your meta case but I think that's BS. I think that no one was bitting on your meta case so you threw out some charged wording that I wasn't doing enough. I think I'm doing plenty.

do you do the response in bold thing a lot?

If it's a wall with several quotes, yeah. I don't want to cut out and quote every single part.

[KittyTacky]

I never said I read the game for meta. I also never said I metadived you. So let’s not get too carried away with putting words in my mouth or twisting my thoughts.

I just said it felt off in terms of you casing NC very early.

Yeah that post is just gross. VOTE: takotsubo syndrome

[KittyTacky]

Kitty, nowhere has anyone said that they are voting you because you didn’t case Nero.

Why do you still claim this?

Well it came across this way. Elaborate why you think my response to pressure is scummy.

[KittyTacky]

Kitty, nowhere has anyone said that they are voting you because you didn’t case Nero.

Why do you still claim this?

Well it came across this way. Elaborate why you think my response to pressure is scummy.

I think that you have prioritised stamping out suspicion cast against you (scum-motivated) over trying to determine whether people are town or scum (town-motivated)

I don't have solid reads on most people yet, and it's in my best interests as a townie to not have suspicion circling me. Trying to dispel suspicion is not always scum-motivated.

[KittyTacky]

I still rather VD or Kitty. Like I get why TS is getting wagoned and in a vacuum his post was scummy as all get out but I sorta think he's town and scum are wagoning him.

How's he not scummy in an atmosphere then?

[KittyTacky]

Last game I pushed several people early and they were all town. I don't want to repeat my mistakes.

honestly, this doesn't make me feel any better lol. I mean maybe I could see you go "oh my reads were really bad last game so I'm going try to let others lead." but then I think there's a good chunk of possible scum motivation in that.

This is a good point I use this excuse as scum all the time

Look at my previous game, I led pushes on townies all game because I was reckless. It's not an excuse.

[KittyTacky]

I sneaked in homes of everyone in this game, and taked sample of your salive while you sleeped to discover, who is mafia.

Analysis showed that mafia team is StD+NK15+over90+ItalianoVD.


GG, game can be closed.
VOTE: End Game

not bad

I did not expect to see you around again lmfao.

[KittyTacky]

I still rather VD or Kitty. Like I get why TS is getting wagoned and in a vacuum his post was scummy as all get out but I sorta think he's town and scum are wagoning him.

How's he not scummy in an atmosphere then?

sometimes ppl that are "scummy" still have a town pm.

Elaborate why you think that way about TS.

[KittyTacky]

The sheeping, the lack of input, and the wagon you jumped from to get there.

I don't really see it, NK seems town on gut to me.

[KittyTacky]

Kitty, nowhere has anyone said that they are voting you because you didn’t case Nero.

Why do you still claim this?

Well it came across this way. Elaborate why you think my response to pressure is scummy.

I think that you have prioritised stamping out suspicion cast against you (scum-motivated) over trying to determine whether people are town or scum (town-motivated)

this is actually a personality indicator more often than it is an alignment indicator

a better question I think to ask is what Kitty is trying to appear to be doing

yes, Kitty is hyper-conscious of the pressure/votes on them, but like it's so clearly a big issue from them I'm more likely to just attribute that as a personal reaction to pressure regardless of alignment. I would suspect scum!Kitty to be more aware of how they are coming off, and even if they had a similar reaction, to maybe play it off as less of a big deal. I'm not town reading Kitty necessarily but I'm not sure I buy this case

I think my top townreads are Gamma, RCE, over90 and Carcalilly

also side note as I'm reading, DV, why do you town read RCE?

Yeah I don't like being pressured as either alignment. It's NAI for me.

[KittyTacky]

NK15 is an even flashier wagon than Tako. Kinda weird.

[KittyTacky]

I much prefer Tako to NK15. NK15 just seems townie to me, I actually kinda like his early vote on me now, I doubt scum would be that reckless.

[KittyTacky]

Sorry for being inactive, I was busy IRL. Readlist coming soon.

[KittyTacky]

y do you think nk15 is town?

For me it's mostly gut.

[KittyTacky]

Holy fucking quote wall Batman. Responses in bold.

I waited so long for this game to start. Exams?

Anyways, I remember playing with a large chunk of the player list.

VOTE: KittyTacky

You're making a terrible mistake, I'm Jester.

It isn't RVS anymore. Scummy.

Was it not?

Yeah I don't feel this Nero is particularly similar to his town play.

I won't vote him so early, but I'll scrutinize his posts more.

Partners?

?????

joking about being a jester is dumb

Partners??

No, Nero just hates jokes apparently.

ok kool. Still think the 3 in a 16 is dumb though.

It is, probably. But who knows, scum might be packin' heat.

I can't even think of what would make 13:3 balanced. Scum vig? Multiple roleblockers? Multiple-shot neighborizer?

This is way off the mark.

It is only not off the map if town has little no power roles. What was the last time you have seen that in a large normal?

so kitty r u gonna engage me or are you just trying to keep me at arms length?

Don't like this, why should kitty do that? Scummy.

ok kool. Still think the 3 in a 16 is dumb though.

It is, probably. But who knows, scum might be packin' heat.

I can't even think of what would make 13:3 balanced. Scum vig? Multiple roleblockers? Multiple-shot neighborizer?

You have no idea on what balance is, apparently.

yeah, all those 3 scum in a 16 player is a really common setup. get real, NK15

No, but low power is also not that common in larges.

That means 13:3 would be unbalanced without high scum power.

so kitty r u gonna engage me or are you just trying to keep me at arms length?

Do you really expect me to try to case you on page 6? I don't case people this early.

ok kool. Still think the 3 in a 16 is dumb though.

It is, probably. But who knows, scum might be packin' heat.

I can't even think of what would make 13:3 balanced. Scum vig? Multiple roleblockers? Multiple-shot neighborizer?

You have no idea on what balance is, apparently.

Balance here would be offsetting a severely outnumbered mafia by giving them a ton of power. But I doubt it's 13:3.

I won't vote him so early, but I'll scrutinize his posts more.

The more people post the more scumreads I have.

The cardinal sin of waiting for more posts from a player before seeing whether to commit to a read or not.

Why's that a cardinal sin?

Because it isn't, I was being sarcastic due to RCE's implied scumread of me from that post.

Balance here would be offsetting a severely outnumbered mafia by giving them a ton of power. But I doubt it's 13:3.

BS.VOTE: KittyTacky

And it is still BS. But it might come from town that doesn't know balance/mechanics.

So you're saying 13:3 is balanced even if town isn't nearly mountainous?

[KittyTacky]

Im not chopping that wall and the only thing that i really think needs any clarification is..

Ooo actually VOTE: mq.bosco

Bosco's question was very lamist at the time. Although i do think new scum are likely to make a post like that in rvs I backed off when i checked that was although they had signed up for a newbie game this was their first game on site -- so it got a pass for the time being.

other things I want to speak about are:

1) I think your scumteam is a weird place to land with my slot especially. Like writing off my pushback against Italiano's case as a strawman when I gave evidence that poked holes in it from the beginning is disingenuous. Considering you also agree that the case is not concrete and probably on town. though ive only really come around to nero!town recently.

B) That your scumteam are majority slots carrying the thread in terms of readable content yet the VC's look the way they do with all of the major wagons that have stalled out being on town from your pov. That just doesnt line up.

3) The funky Gamma progression, it seems like you read gamma negatively up until they tell me how to snip OOG quotes -- which is helpful but not in game terms. I fail to see how that would flip a read in any case so maybe there is more to it.

D) you did remind me the other issue I had with carca's posting which was the rolefishing, with my slot is the one that sticks out but I think there was another instance this happened. I remember making mental notes that it was something to keep a tab on but, goldfish memory.
Also the ignoring my question in 87 but its not super important.

Why mix letters and numbers?

[KittyTacky]

I think this is the first time I've been called LHF lol

Readlist coming soon.

is there a reason this didn't happen?

I have to prepare for the exams, not much time. I'll do it when I have time.

I bet I could v/la for the rest of the game and still be the top poster.

so i'll be dead soon?

???

y do you think nk15 is town?

For me it's mostly gut.

Was asking VD not you. But while we are on the subject of you and reads...you light called me scum but needed me to post more which is a fence sit, you called NK15 town on gut and said that tako's post was gross and voted him. Do you have any of your own thoughts or anything based on actual events of this game?

You played with me before, you know how I play, early on I just kinda flop around before doing things when the game "clicks" for me. But yes I do. I'll need to give this gamestate a good think-over and/or a re-read, maybe later today.

responces to nk15

Spoiler:

Why did you shade here, Nero?

like I said before, it was a cheeky comment to a q that I deemed silly.

Nero do you like low power setups?

it seems like most setups are low powered setups. Personally, I think town does need a significant amount of power but otherwise, I don't really care about the setup. My frowny face was about the ridiculousness of there being 3 scum in a 16 player. If this were a thing then I think the mod is screwing over the scum team. Only way a 3 scum makes sense to me is if there was a SK.

A bit evasive, why no push, why is this so toned down?

I was already pushing who I felt like was scum.

And just when I said I thought you were town, you do this.

Why was nk15's post scummy?

Gamma, do you have any solid towns? Except Carcalilly

Italiano

explain both reads please?

[KittyTacky]

@Kitty: Are you a tonal reader when it comes to sorting people? Or something else?

Sorry I missed this. Yes I am.

[KittyTacky]

It's often hard for me to share thoughts besides "they feel like town/scum".

[KittyTacky]

I'm not particularly convinced that Enchant is scum here. Possible sure but I don't agree that their posts are necessarily scum-indicative

Yeah I don't really buy it. Also, I just had a chemistry exam, I was busy with preparing for it before so I was quiet. Sorry.

[KittyTacky]

i mean I do want to know who your main is

I kinda had a guess it's Vasex but didn't voice it.

Welcome, Elsa! Long time no see.

[KittyTacky]

I'm fairly sure there's at least one scum in {NK15, Malakittens (used to be tako)}, I'm going to push there unless someone scumclaims.

[KittyTacky]

My slight TR on NK kinda eroded on my re-evaluation of the game. He's scummy.

[KittyTacky]

I'm just not feeling it's Gamma. Gamma gives me town vibes.

[KittyTacky]

Kitty, have you seen nk15's vote? Is it not so stupid for a scum to vote like this? Im not sure. Looked rather genuine. But as I said earlier it is not bad decision to elim nk15 early because he can easily ruin late game even for a townie

I don't really see how the vote was particularly likely to be genuine. I don't know much about him as a player, but things like this are fairly common to do as scum for WIFOM or to distract people. I do things like that as scum in Discord mafia.

how did Gamma give u town vibes?

good question

i'd like to see the posts of gamma with town vibes for u

Not really any specific posts, it's a tonal read, if not a very strong one.

[KittyTacky]

I think Kitty is Russian Oprah

You get a tone read, you get a tone read,

EVERYONE GETS A TONE READ!

Look, that's how I townhunt. It's really hard for me to actually find concrete evidence for someone being town (barring, obviously, mechanical clears). For scumhunting it's easier to at least point to a gross post.

Not really any specific posts, it's a tonal read, if not a very strong one.

gamma? not elsa? strange

Well my read started with Gamma. I'll use Elsa in the future of course.

@SirCakez @Kitty @NK15

What do you guys think of Nero claiming pr only

after

there wasn’t traction on me and claimed he will check me?

What do you think of over90’s presence in the game?

What do you think of DeasVail? Now or still?

When you guys get the chance of course.

1. Did he just simply claim "PR"? Soft claims are anti-town. They're not scummy per se, but if you're going to make yourself a target (by the virtue of simply being a PR), cough up your whole role so we townies get more info. Scum only needs to know that someone is

a

PR to prioritize them. But for town that info is pointless aside from "don't lim them early maybe".
2. I think he's town. He feels town.
3. No strong opinions, they're very quiet though, but whether that is AI depends on meta.

[KittyTacky]

Look, that's how I townhunt.

TBF, 792 was meant more as a joke than a criticism. But I do lowkey feel like "townhunting" is a pretty likely claim to come from scum.

Well I am telling the truth, that's my town playstyle, I do a lot of gut reads.

[KittyTacky]

What is your scum playstyle then

I haven't rolled scum enough (and lived long enough barring one game) to tell you.

we will hang all ppl who are not vt and we will win

I can't see you in player list.

over90 is a Vasex alt.

she prefers to talk about prs, about mechanics, about anything else, but she has zero susps, zero towns, bc she knows almost everything she needs. talking so much about prs is scummy thing by the way, this is a process of gathering reactions and searching for real prs. to kill em

Is it really rational to scumread someone for having no reads when they replaced in very recently?

mq.bosco's vote (without even flimsy reasoning attached) kinda stinks of just jumping on a wagon because it's a big wagon. Which is sus.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Is it really rational to scumread someone for having no reads when they replaced in very recently?she had enough time to make any opinion, but prefers to discuss smth else, mostly explaining herself + offtopic + pr claim

In my experience, solid reads take a while to form. Especially when replacing in and thus being "disconnected" from the game.

[KittyTacky]

have you read the game?

I've read it.

Look at this, kitty
The moment of replacement yesterday

It's, from my own experience offsite, pretty hard to form very strong reads when you're not actively engaged with a game. Even if you read it.

Kitty, I don't like you defending of gamma/elsa very much

If I someone I think is town is getting pushed, I will defend them.

[KittyTacky]

update you solid towns kitty
urgent

I was asleep.

I don't have a full reads list assembled, but my solid towns are: {over90, ItalianoVD, RCEnigma}.

[KittyTacky]

Elsa is a townlean.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: mq.bosco

Scummy lurking.

[KittyTacky]

I'm also uninformed so having 100% conviction isn't going to be possible on d1.

Me too, actually. And nevertheless, I get accused of fencesitting.

[KittyTacky]

It's Bosco.

[KittyTacky]

Why bosco?

Why not me?

Deadline frankly

i dont understand the reason

What don't you understand about it?

[KittyTacky]

There's at least one scum in Titus, Bosco, and NK.

[KittyTacky]

There's at least one scum in Titus, Bosco, and NK.

????

I do guesses like this often.

[KittyTacky]

experience (the most active player is usually town)
but it can not work well with players like nero

btw, kitty, i think you should scumread std, what do you think?

STD is oddly quiet this game. Usually he's more active. I don't really know what to think of that, but I don't have a strong scumread on him. I'd rather lim one of those I listed today.

[KittyTacky]

hey people, please update your opinions right now - your scumreads and townreads, maybe only townreads, it would be very helpful! i will update mine too

CONFIRMED TOWN

KittyTacky

STRONG TOWN

over90
ItalianoVD

TOWN LEAN

RCENigma
Carcalilly

NULL

Everyone else not mentioned

SCUM LEAN

Titus
Malakittens

STRONG SCUM

mq.bosco

CONFIRMED SCUM

Nobody yet!

[KittyTacky]

Deasvail
StD
Mala
RCE
Bosco

Here's a pool. I can be bribed.

I'm an odd night roleblocker.

Let's lim in scum now or let me go so I can ignore this game.

Well yeah I won't push you. I don't lim PR claims day 1.

[KittyTacky]

Google translate is a thing. As much as you probably think I am an arrogant tool, I'd like to save you headaches in the future.

ok i will give you one after the game in pm
but there are tones of text and everybody has a role with some abilities

Give me one too then.

[KittyTacky]

Well yeah I won't push you. I don't lim PR claims day 1.

so you prefer to elim townies on day1 bc they won't claim pr?

That is a loaded question. PR claims don't just come from scum, especially if said PR is getting pressured, and scum don't always claim PR. I'd rather not risk killing a PR this early. Besides, if someone is ridiculously scummy then I will push them regardless of claim, but that is not the case with Titus.

[KittyTacky]

Well yeah I won't push you. I don't lim PR claims day 1.

so you prefer to elim townies on day1 bc they won't claim pr?

so you prefer to elim vt, kitty?
what's wrong with u
every scum is claiming on e-1, u forget it when u was claiming being 1st time scum on day 1 ?

I explained my reasoning. Also, odd-night roleblocker seems like a town role. Scum roleblockers are usually ungated in my experience. Though a lot of that experience comes from Discord mafia.

[KittyTacky]

You're accusing me of not being genuine because I claimed PR on stand as scum once. That doesn't mean every PR claim is scum.

[KittyTacky]

I don't think Titus is so off-the-charts sus as to want to push her regardless of claim.

[KittyTacky]

how? half this player list has flaked out and the other half isn't playing

With hands.

VOTE: Kitty

Elaborate.

[KittyTacky]

i consider titus and elsa are very suspicious slots, but you are protecting them both, now with a really bad reason (not to eliminate prs)

Also, odd-night roleblocker seems like a town role. Scum roleblockers are usually ungated in my experience. Though a lot of that experience comes from Discord mafia.

this is garbage

How though.

[KittyTacky]

moreover it sound like you know smth, like "titus is 100% telling the truth about her role"(which is impossible to know if you are townie)

I don't know it 100%, but I just don't see what's so scummy about her that she warrants a lim over Bosco.

but i see that you even didnt think about it, so u can know smth

I did take that into account, but as a role like roleblocker that produces a tangible, non-info effect (rather than an investigative role), it's common to claim the actual role if it's not an obvious scum role. At least that's how I understand it.

[KittyTacky]

A scum claiming roleblocker while not actually being roleblocker can often be checked for truth.

[KittyTacky]

So claiming roleblocker while not actually being a roleblocker is rare. And Titus claimed gated roleblocker. Which is more likely town.

[KittyTacky]

She can still be scum, she is not a strong townread for me, I just want Bosco first.

[KittyTacky]

I did take that into account, but as a role like roleblocker that produces a tangible, non-info effect (rather than an investigative role), it's common to claim the actual role if it's not an obvious scum role. At least that's how I understand it.

so what??? this is absolutely useless thought.
they could take any role and decided to use this one. towny role. like you did!! 1 shot cop for example, your fake role, was it scummy role or towny role you've chose?
i dont believe you kitty

You misunderstood. You can't prove a cop as fake unless they slip up and say someone guilty is innocent and vice versa (unless there's a town rolecop or something). But you can prove a roleblocker to be fake by asking them to RB someone with an action. So roleblocker is a riskier claim than an investigative role.

Ninja edit: whatever, Titus is hammered. Let's see who was right.

[KittyTacky]

my shot on kitty failed :/

Are you joking or serious?

Also, told yall Titus is town.

VOTE: KittyTacky

Elaborate!

[KittyTacky]

It's lowkey sus that Nero claimed PR and didn't die, but maybe the mafia's kill failed too.

[KittyTacky]

Also, told yall Titus is town.

Is this an accurate portrayal of events?

SCUM LEAN
Titus

There's at least one scum in Titus, Bosco, and NK.

Also, odd-night roleblocker seems like a town role.

She can still be scum, she is not a strong townread for me,

the closest you came to calling Titus town was saying that it seemed like a town role which is ??? I mean you could describe most roles as town or scum b/c alot of roles could be either faction.

I'm gonna say that you aren't really telling the truth.

but maybe the mafia's kill failed too.

ya think? There was no scum kill last night so the only 2 options are that they failed to submit or it failed so....

I can change my mind over time, don't you think?

i believe kitty scumslipped / claimed scum, saying that "odd night roleblocker" is town's role (like an argument why titus is town for him), not even thinking, that Titus just tells a fake role. like kitty knew for sure that Titus was saying the truth about the role. It was impossible to be sure in that if you are townie

I was not 100% sure of it. But I have never seen a gated scum roleblocker that I remember. And I explained why roleblockers are rarely fake claims. I guess there was a possibility she was a scum roleblocker faking a gate, but towards the end I decided she was more likely to be town and being shitpushed by mafia.

Also, told yall Titus is town

Didn't you just not want to lim her because of the d1 PR claim?

Yes. Stuff like this is why I don't like voting PR claims day 1 unless they do something outrageously scummy. Which was not the case here.

I still want Bosco dead.
VOTE: mq.bosco

[KittyTacky]

I can change my mind over time, don't you think?

I mean sure but when what you are claiming what you believed doesn't really line up with what you said it makes it look a little made up, no? When did you start thinking that Titus was going to flip town?

Soon after I posted my reads list. That's when I went back and skimmed the game after Titus' replacement a second time. It was my mistake that I didn't really articulate it.

But I have never seen a gated scum roleblocker that I remember. And I explained why roleblockers are rarely fake claims.

You are likely right that roleblock isn't a common fakeclaim b/c giving scum a roleblock is a common thing. but scum not having gates is v untrue.

Well maybe that's just my one year of experience speaking then. I just couldn't recall playing with a gated scum roleblocker anywhere, on-site or offsite.

[KittyTacky]

naw, dr. worm was a troll. over just seems inexperenced.

He's experienced but offsite, and the meta is different on his home forum. He said it.

[KittyTacky]

He is an alt of Vasex, a player who joined in 2021.

[KittyTacky]

Hoods are only as useful for scumhunting as the town players in them. But they amplify their strength.

[KittyTacky]

So again... Your arguing that the non gated JK is town?

At work now will respond later.

It can be town, strange that it was said it was a "scum role".

[KittyTacky]

I can see why Elsa can be scum after my re-read.

[KittyTacky]

if elsa is red, kitty is red with her. i told you kitty, i remember your strange defense of elsa

I legit just thought she was town.

[KittyTacky]

I can see why Elsa can be scum after my re-read.

Why?

I really don't like her exchange with you D1. It "feels" like scum after I came back to it. I don't know how to explain.

[KittyTacky]

I'll go re-read STD's ISO and make my call based on that.

[KittyTacky]

There's at least one scum in

Titus

, Bosco, and

NK

.

weird soft bus?

It ain't a bus because I am town. NK and Bosco might be both scum NGL.

And kitty has only made 1 post that didn’t say anything

I'll go re-read STD's ISO and make my call based on that.

naw, just taking him a long time to read STD's ISO

I went to fucking sleep. Yeah I agree he's scummy.
VOTE: STD

[KittyTacky]

I am in UTC+7, when it's day in America it's night for me.

[KittyTacky]

STD dies today.

[KittyTacky]

Did I hammer?

[KittyTacky]

And why is StD scummy, Kitty

I don't like his interactions with players today especially.

Did I hammer?

This feels really fake

I am bad at counting votes like that. And how does it feel fake? This feels like shade.

[KittyTacky]

I don't like his interactions with players today especially.

This is so vague

Did I hammer?

This feels really fake

I am bad at counting votes like that. And how does it feel fake? This feels like shade.

It is

If you were worried about std in hammer range, then you shouldn't have voted at all unless you really wanted to end the day[/quote]
1. I don't know how to explain it better.
2. I was not, in fact, worried about him being in hammer range. I'm fine with the day ending since discussion seems to have dried up. I was just curious.

[KittyTacky]

wait why did mafia kill off wagon rofl

that probably points to NM

Yeah I've also been sussing NM overnight.

[KittyTacky]

OK nevermind there was a cop clear on them.

I suck at reading NM.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: CSF

Sheeping Koba on this.

[KittyTacky]

NK15 quickhammer came out of nowhere after not talking about StD at all D3
Aside from that quickhammer, pretty bad voting record by voting people who have either flipped town or I believe are town
Weird vote in 1857
Gamma soft defended him in 424, which seems partner-y

---

And why is StD scummy, Kitty

I don't like his interactions with players today especially.

Did I hammer?

This feels really fake

I am bad at counting votes like that. And how does it feel fake? This feels like shade.

Out of the reasons to scumread StD, I don't think the bolded is a great reason, and this feels like a clumsy bus

I didn't know how else to express my read.

[KittyTacky]

I feel like no matter my role, I am a daymiller in every game.

[KittyTacky]

is there anything people want me to like defend against

Scum post he's looking for a way out

wtf i'm looking for a case i don't see one

This just gives me bad vibes. IDK how to explain it.

players: vote STD with no reason
me: what's the reason
SirCakez: he's scum for asking for a reason

???

Misrep.

Those two mostly.

[KittyTacky]

DV didnt like kitty too.

DV townread me before his death.

[KittyTacky]

DV didnt like kitty too.

DV townread me before his death.

that doesn't mean crap

i highly believe that N_M was his inno result.

I didn't say it means DV had a clear on me, but it does mean that over90 is wrong about DV not liking me. He changed his mind.

[KittyTacky]

Yeah, Enchant is pretty scummy.

[KittyTacky]

I have been avoiding posting in hood who I have been blocking because I *sorta* don't trust enchant.

But i am Cop.

Huh. What gates do you have?

[KittyTacky]

wait I forgot about KittyTacky even being in this game LMAO probably not a good sign

I guess you never played with me before.

[KittyTacky]

There is 10000000% scum in {Nashed, CSF}.

[KittyTacky]

nashed is a slot that if they were town theyd also get pushed by scum themselves.

This is a fair point

Though I would not be so confident to say they're 10000% scum by that metric alone, so im still curious why Kitty said that

Call it my intuition. I don't like their behavior at all this game.

[KittyTacky]

nashed is a slot that if they were town theyd also get pushed by scum themselves.

This is the best point for Nashed scum
Why have they been ignored for three days

Yeah I'd think a town lurker would get pushed for being a lurker by scum looking for LHF.

[KittyTacky]

Page 6 I'm agreeing with the Kitty votes there, Kitty legit feels like maf talking about setup balance... it's just awkward
144- I could see nero being Kitty's partner, like, why are we calling whoever out for fence sitting on page 6? ehhh
OH Enchant's entrance here wasn't actually bad, it felt like a towny "if you read there's no traitor" thing and yeah. good look for enchant
148- HARD AGREE with mala - and with hindsight Gamma was maf, so.. why would maf try to defend someone? hmmm Gamma is never with cakez there, I guess nero doesn't have to be partner to be defended by gamma, might make more sense if they're not partners
151- ah nice, Italiano versus my slot and I'm town... well, I can't talk to italiano about it... maybe CSF could defend!! lol jk it does feel like Italiano TMI'd Over as town though... cause Nashed was SRing Over, and Italiano was like "YO!! WRONG!!" idk. it's a thought, there is going to be a lot of wrong thoughts here.
154- lol Italiano pushes Nero... now Koba pushing CSF... it's funny how this works
160 - Kitty feels odd
> What's wrong with just being somewhat cautious this early?
that feels like something maf would say when called out for fence sitting, like, Kitty isn't taking any sides, and is more worried about the whole 13-3 situation
166- Mala is definitely not with Gamma, and I don't *think* nero is with gamma
170 - mq.bosco pop in feels scummy
175 - then mq pulls the "cuz im new" card??
192- Gamma pushing italiano... the partner?
mmmm 204- I feel like that says a lot.. but like idk how to interpret that std post

ok and that's the first 9 pages, I need a break. Honestly, I don't think I'll be trying to take charge here, but I do need yall to see Nash/I are town, like you can move me to your TRs, I'm sure it'll help reads. if there's any questions on what I've read I can answer those, I'm trying my best to just power through and like read/skim over everything, this is just a lot of reading. I know I can tackle it though. I wanna say Carcalilly (MathBlade), and mq.bosco (Not_Mafia) are currently my top scumreads right now, possibly KittyTacky there... I'm sure it'll change, but yeah, hope this "content" was enough to satisfy yall for the moment. I love the challenge of replacing in to 3 votes on me!!! (I hope they don't stay for long plz...) I'll start on page 10 later. woooo leggooo town we got this!!

We all know town is never cautious early.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: KittyTacky

I didnt read anything.
I can elim nk15 too for his game.
I want to elim kitty for protecting elsa. But he can be town.

And like I said i consider italiano is not with std, but he is voted by kitty and dkkoba. This is strange.

And i also dont like enchant.

what's the case for kitty maf?

Anyone who has a wrong read is scum, I guess.

[KittyTacky]

Enchant doesn't look too good, but CSF or Andante first IMO.

[KittyTacky]

Andante first IMO.

YO WHAT? And here I was like, ok maybe kitty town, that reaction seemed fine

Your slot was in my limpool earlier today, you did not redeem Nashed's actions (or rather, lack of them).

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: kittytacky this person is scum
I can't even chop through the shit posters right now

Can you cite something that can't be attributed to playstyle? Bc i had to defend kitty from similar pushes in a recent normal game and i feel theyre town here

Cakez never played with me before I think. I always play like this regardless of alignment.

[KittyTacky]

oh my fucking god over90 is vasex that explains everything


over90 i played in a large game with you last year when you were under Vasex - my account name was "Bypasser Catcher"

Alt outing is disgusting

I am going to pretend this post doesn’t exist

I don’t think I know a Vasex anyway but I fail to see how anything is explained.

He outed himself day 1, it's fine.

[KittyTacky]

Andante just did an OMGUSmogus.

[KittyTacky]

I don’t think that’s right.

I think over unvoted Kitty.

Can we like talk with each other and provide reasons?

I feel that is very much lacking here.

CSF = gross shitpushing on me, accusing me of bussing as if I can't change my mind about someone
Andante/Nashed = slot lurked and was never pushed by scum for it, which seems very odd

I'm down for either.
VOTE: Andante

[KittyTacky]

Enchant feels like a PL or is there actually a scumcase

I don't like compromise wagons, they tend to just be scummy townies rather than scum.

[KittyTacky]

Andante/Nashed = slot lurked and was never pushed by scum for it, which seems very odd

so I'm maf for just lurking and not being pushed by scum?

Yes, your slot was extremely LHF and was just ignored.

[KittyTacky]

Andante/Nashed = slot lurked and was never pushed by scum for it, which seems very odd

so I'm maf for just lurking and not being pushed by scum?

Yes, your slot was extremely LHF and was just ignored.

and if scum decided to push LHF... just for me to flip town? would that be a good look? no

The whole point of scum pushing LHF is to have the plausible deniability of "well I thought they were scum". By your logic, scum wouldn't push any townies at all.

[KittyTacky]

I don’t think that’s right.

I think over unvoted Kitty.

Can we like talk with each other and provide reasons?

I feel that is very much lacking here.

CSF = gross shitpushing on me, accusing me of bussing as if I can't change my mind about someone
Andante/Nashed = slot lurked and was never pushed by scum for it, which seems very odd

I'm down for either.
VOTE: Andante

yeah but you should be able to explain why your read changed, especially when it looked like StD was a foregone conclusion, and it looked like you were trying to get some town cred in - that's just basic mafia :/

idk what to say beyond that

I explained it as good as I could, though.

[KittyTacky]

I stand by my read.
VOTE: CSF

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Koba

Koba is locktown.

[KittyTacky]

After talk in hood i think Math is maf after all.

VOTE: Math

Math is also pretty town IMO.

[KittyTacky]

Can people say why they don't want to vote NK15?

You are scummier.

[KittyTacky]

Lets massclaim.

I'm a VT.

[KittyTacky]

What tipped me off the hardest is mathblade refuses to look at the game as a whole and wont look at flipped scum interactions *at all*. Like this is a dead ringer. He will call me scum but CSF is fine. It is intentional ignorance. Mathblade is in a precarious situation where 2 partners went down early so he cant just powerscum and now he's stuck doing this lame routine of pushing bad faith arguments half assed.

It's CSF/Mathblade.
This *fits* and i do not see anything else that makes sense.

This also tracks with the kill on mala the previous night and the immediate reaction to sheep legacy - something mathblade *doesn't do* as town. He actually has been pretty adamant at ignoring me pointing out how weird he has been whem I've said "hey this is weird from you"

Like he doesn't want any attention put on it.

Well, now we shall shine a spotlight on you math. You can try to omgus me but town has a miselimination. I have a perfect solve, over90 believes in this solve, and the rest of the townies will follow my solve after i flip town(if not also because it makes sense)

Good luck to you.

CSF still first I think, if CSF is scum then Math is the last scum.

[KittyTacky]

naw, dr. worm was a troll. over just seems inexperenced.

He's experienced but offsite, and the meta is different on his home forum. He said it.

He is an alt of Vasex, a player who joined in 2021.

I was referring to over, not Dr. Worm.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: CSF

Sheeping Koba on this.

Why do you vote against your townie Italiano with Nero/koba, who wasnt townie for you?

Because my read changed.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Koba

Koba is locktown.

why it is? What's happened?

Meta. This smells like town Koba.

[KittyTacky]

CSF/Kitty and CSF trying to save Kitty?

Or does CSF know Kitty is town?

UNVOTE:

Either way I don’t like this response to the wagon and I wanna find out which

It's the latter. Over is just a wrong townie. Get CSF.

[KittyTacky]

CSF = gross shitpushing on me, accusing me of bussing as if I can't change my mind about someone

This is the only thing I can find where you explain why you scumread me

You had some reads where you did a 180, and the read progression was either lacking or was underexplained. I might've pushed you for that, but I stopped after you explained your reads a bit more. So if you're town here, I think you should read the game a bit more critically.

Is it really scummy of me to think that you having wild read changes is weird? What is your read on NK15?

1. Do I really need to repeat myself? I stated my reason.
2. I just find it very hard to articulate my read reasons sometimes.
3. Not by itself. And NK15 is scum IMO.

VOTE: Koba

Koba is locktown.

why it is? What's happened?

Meta. This smells like town Koba.

bad reason to locktown anybody
u need smth more
Italiano was your solid town. Why do you think that koba is not wrong about italiano/csf?
Where are your reasons for that?

CSF's actions around me really, REALLY felt like scum trying to implicate a townie for bussing after a scumbuddy sank. That's my reason.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: NK15

I really disagree with the case on Math, and NK15's push seems like, ironically, "Pure opportunism.". NK15 sees TvT, NK15 pushes the attacked townie.

Last 2 scum are CSF and NK15.

[KittyTacky]

V/LA for 2 days.

[KittyTacky]

I really disagree with the case on Math,

Why

?

I can really see a townie playing like this. I know I did as town.

[KittyTacky]

hey people, please update your opinions right now - your scumreads and townreads, maybe only townreads, it would be very helpful! i will update mine too

CONFIRMED TOWN

KittyTacky

STRONG TOWN

over90
ItalianoVD

TOWN LEAN

RCENigma
Carcalilly

NULL

Everyone else not mentioned

SCUM LEAN

Titus
Malakittens

STRONG SCUM

mq.bosco

CONFIRMED SCUM

Nobody yet!

@kitty please explain why you put carca in your townleans here

I honestly don't remember. It was probably a gut read.

[KittyTacky]

I guess I can see a Kitty/Math team

Spoiler:

After talk in hood i think Math is maf after all.

VOTE: Math

Math is also pretty town IMO.

Not explained previously in this ISO - last mention of the slot was an unexplained carcalilly townlean on day 1

What tipped me off the hardest is mathblade refuses to look at the game as a whole and wont look at flipped scum interactions *at all*. Like this is a dead ringer. He will call me scum but CSF is fine. It is intentional ignorance. Mathblade is in a precarious situation where 2 partners went down early so he cant just powerscum and now he's stuck doing this lame routine of pushing bad faith arguments half assed.

It's CSF/Mathblade.
This *fits* and i do not see anything else that makes sense.

This also tracks with the kill on mala the previous night and the immediate reaction to sheep legacy - something mathblade *doesn't do* as town. He actually has been pretty adamant at ignoring me pointing out how weird he has been whem I've said "hey this is weird from you"

Like he doesn't want any attention put on it.

Well, now we shall shine a spotlight on you math. You can try to omgus me but town has a miselimination. I have a perfect solve, over90 believes in this solve, and the rest of the townies will follow my solve after i flip town(if not also because it makes sense)

Good luck to you.

CSF still first I think, if CSF is scum then Math is the last scum.

Pushes math conditionally on my scum flip, which is pretty convenient given I'm not going to flip scum.

CSF/Kitty and CSF trying to save Kitty?

Or does CSF know Kitty is town?

UNVOTE:

Either way I don’t like this response to the wagon and I wanna find out which

It's the latter. Over is just a wrong townie. Get CSF.

This could be SvS, because I don't see how this post is supposed to convince anyone that he (Kitty) is town and I'm scum. Ehhh I don't know

For context, Math put Kitty on E-1 for a hot second earlier that same page.

VOTE: NK15

I really disagree with the case on Math, and NK15's push seems like, ironically, "Pure opportunism.". NK15 sees TvT, NK15 pushes the attacked townie.

Last 2 scum are CSF and NK15.

I know I'm biased, but this post is just major "bruh"

But also what happened to sheeping town!Koba?

Subconscious OMGUS bias.

[KittyTacky]

There is only one mafioso left and it's not me.

[KittyTacky]

I'm f**king town.

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

[KittyTacky]

Ok without the emotional outrage if you are town please go through this logically - explain why CSF? Because I feel that mathblade intentionally wanted to egg on that 1v1

I pushed CSF mostly because of sheeping and also because of her response to me. But I'm done with this game. I know I'm dying.

[KittyTacky]

I'm just a dumb townie, CSF is scum who tried to push me for being LHF.

[KittyTacky]

Yeah, I basically deflated after Math's death.

GG though.