Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[VP Baltar]

ok and you feel

certain

about penguin or hutmeil?

I feel more certain penguin is scum here. I don't think hutmeil is scum, but we get info either way.

[VP Baltar]

I am reading your penguin progression and it doesn't make sense to me

you seem to suspect him for voting for hutmeil but you also seem to think hutmeil is fine to vote?

That is incorrect. I don't think hutmeil flips scum, but people voting there is useful to my understanding of the game.

I don't think fire flips scum, and I don't think there is a ton of value in three competing wagons D1. That's the difference.

[VP Baltar]

ok so why are you scumreading penguin?

His resistance around voting despite claiming he loves wagons. General lack of scumhunting. Disappeared after mild pressure and seems to be relying on "penguin slacks D1" as an excuse.

Penguin isn't my preferred yeet today (hi andante), but he is scummy enough to go I'm fine with it.

[VP Baltar]

The hutmeil wagon gives me majorly bad vibes as being too easy.

mmm? it's one more than fire and one less than where mala was...

I can see momentum lazily shifting that way. I'm just calling it out before it takes off as a wagon of resignation.

Your vote seems bad to me especially.

so what was this about then?

What about it? I don't understand the question you're asking.

[VP Baltar]

1368 said that you seem to scumread pengu for his vote on hutmeil

you deny it and list other reasons for scumreading him in 1371

but the thing i bolded makes it seem like you scumread him for that vote

idk if i'm just being dumb and missing something obvious

I think the confusion is in when I told ari it is "incorrect". What I mean there is that it is incorrect that it is as simple as the hutmeil vote. I think there are broader things about Penguins response to that pressure that I found scummier than just the vote alone.

That being said, at the time of the vote it was a good enough reason to pressure given the hutmeil wagon was in fact gaining lazy steam and penguin put a naked vote there.

So incorrect was probably not a good word choice on my part, because there is some truth to it being where I started to not like penguins play, but I don't see my vote as being strictly about that vote alone. Ari seemed to be trying to point to a contradiction (voting hutmeil =bad, but flipping hutmeil = good), which I don't think is accurate to my viewpoint, or something I even necessarily see as a contradiction.

[VP Baltar]

"That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so." in 1356?

I don't really see the point of elimming hutmeil who you think is town just to get "information" that's just ??? to me.

This is where you are getting into dumbshit territory. All you can do on a D1 is push what you think is the best elim, and most times that is wrong. Getting information from a misyeet is at least salvaging something from the likelihood we miselim on D1.

You have definitely played enough games to know this.

[VP Baltar]

PenguinPower is V/LA on weekends.

also like scumreading penguin for "disappearing" when he's VLA on weekends and this is a pretty big holiday weekend in the states feels kind of icky

He also hasn't posted since Thursday. So this is a level zero take.

[VP Baltar]

Do you have an example of a completed game where you are "ok" with limming someone you think is town just for "information" ?

I'm not voting for hutmeil. Why are you acting like I'm endorsing his yeet as if I am?

[VP Baltar]

Here is pick your poison, which you were in. I would say I was pushing a moderate scum read (Gamma emerald) for information purposes, and the yeet went onto Darby. I didn't oppose that, and even found darby's play right before death surprisingly scummy.

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=

[VP Baltar]

Oh wait, darby flipped red lol. Let me find a better example

[VP Baltar]

Mini 2195, I voted Italiano on a whim because the game was dragging and we needed a lim to move it forward with information. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85877&start=1625

[VP Baltar]

Do you have an example of a completed game where you are "ok" with limming someone you think is town just for "information" ?

I'm not voting for hutmeil. Why are you acting like I'm endorsing his yeet as if I am?

Yeah, I think the Americans are less than tuned into mafia this weekend (myself included).

That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so.

I think 1356 is basically an endorsement

Who do you think I'd prefer you to vote? This is a very surface level point you're trying to push.

[VP Baltar]

well the point I am making is that your posting is incongruent. You say you are scumreading Peng for his hutmeil vote but you seem fine with hutmeil being voted out. That feels more like scum exploiting t-t than town with a scumread.

It's not incongruent at all. I opposed the mala-hut dueling wagons because I thought that was t-t. I don't think thats the case here, and you aren't that dumb.

But hey, if we want to make it Penguin-Ari or Penguin-andante wagons, I'd have a real dilemma on my hand.

[VP Baltar]

also not mentioning the third wagon of fire feels like soft defending him without really naming him

Feels like you're hard defending Penguin here.

[VP Baltar]

do you actually believe that or do you just think it sounds good as a comeback?

I don't think you're making a good faith point here, so clearly you have some motivation that is not transparent.

[VP Baltar]

The weekend happens after Thursday,

Like, this is some wild shit to say and then question why I might think you're openly pushing against a penguin yeet here.

[VP Baltar]

Quick, what's your bullet point case on fire again?

[VP Baltar]

So your whole case is that his scumread isn't thought out enough.

[VP Baltar]

Malakittens (4): Aristeia, Datisi, implosion, Andante

Penguins vote on hutmeil was the third. This was the leading wagon.

When asked for his reasoning why he voted hutmeil, he said he had none and that he just liked wagons.

Well, let me say this in simple terms: That makes no sense when there was a larger wagon available.

Its a made up reason. If penguin wants to come admit that, I'll take the honesty under consideration.

[VP Baltar]

Mala was at 3 when I voted hut. Ari had voted fire. I went from a 2 vote to create an equal counter wagon.

Anyway - I’ll be back in the morning to catch up on what I’ve missed.

we can talk when you are back.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I think the Americans are less than tuned into mafia this weekend (myself included).

That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so.

No.

VOTE: penguinpower
I’m not confident this flips scum but I think the wagon comp isn’t horrible

?

A VC was posted just before my vote changed, think that had anything to do with it?

Why would a VC change your position?

[VP Baltar]

i want penguin to catch up, i might vote there instead

probably not voting for hutmeil

So you are town reading hut? What's your thinking there?

[VP Baltar]

Now that we know fire can play scum well, I should probably give him another fair look.

[VP Baltar]

I kinda just stopped paying attention when Dragons showed up

Because of Dragons, or....?

[VP Baltar]

the people who have been in invictus for longer than i have, does that game impact your read on fire here?

Doing some reading of fire is my priority today. What I know is that my assumption that fire's scum game has improved significantly has proven true. The man posted 100+pages in a neighborhood with Andante and got town read.

He is obviously capable of talking mad bullshit now. I suspect we have all given him too easy of town reads here that require more critical analysis.

[VP Baltar]

Be the change you want to see in the world, or something...

[VP Baltar]

ARISTEIA

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: penguin e-1

If I had a vote available, I'd be hammering right now after that pop in

[VP Baltar]

No, I like this. Let's try it.

VOTE: Mala

What is to like about it?

[VP Baltar]

oh mods of the discord server is over now, i did see penguin town there kinda just not really care at all about people finding him as town when it was a very immediately pressing concern.

could just be a personality thing, ig? but it seemed like there at least he was still trying to solve despite that

I wouldn't take this as a reason to let anyone live. He promised responses (yesterday I think?), and delivered nothing.

[VP Baltar]

i didn't vote mala tho

Ah right sorry about that, I'm on my tab and it's acting up. In that case, Peng, ss and andante for now.

I doubt all three mafia are coordinating their votes on a moonshot wagon that is unlikely. There is some just bad town in this mix.

[VP Baltar]

ok, I ISO'd fire. What i find concerning is that he is among the first people to point out Penguin acting awkwardly, but then never votes there. Like, he does everything in his power to vote elsewhere, especially saying hutmeil is scummy and therefore needs to be voted instead of penguin.

I'd take a full reads list from fire right now.

[VP Baltar]

I also think fire has a lot of poking people with pretty minimal or boring follow up on his pressure, but that could be not AI stuff related to game engagement.

[VP Baltar]

Mala was at 3 when I voted hut. Ari had voted fire. I went from a 2 vote to create an equal counter wagon.

Anyway - I’ll be back in the morning to catch up on what I’ve missed.

Coming back to this with what I wanted to say since you didn't actually follow up: Why did you want to create an equal counter wagon instead of making a wagon on Mala (who you now think is scum I guess???) the lead wagon?

[VP Baltar]

why is mala so hard to lim here?

You have no credibility. Start there.

[VP Baltar]

i like competing wagons for looking back on after a flip. seeing how they rise/fall, which one takes off, and how hard it is to get momentum on is good info.

So wouldn't it make sense for you to be voting hut here?

I know you say you don't have strong reads, but you were decidedly leaning scum on that slot before you switched to mala...

[VP Baltar]

I would like mala to come here and talk please.

[VP Baltar]

I'm curious if Penguin has thoughts on the pace of the game; I remember him generally being more involved/pushy and he's indicated a desire to have bigger wagons but he's not really making a sustained effort to fulfill that end.

mmm? if you recall, i like wagons for a specific reason that require fairly frequent votecounts. we're about to hit 1000 with 3....so i guess too fast?

What's your specific reason for liking the hutmeil wagon?

i don't have one. I like wagons.

Mala was at 3 when I voted hut. Ari had voted fire. I went from a 2 vote to create an equal counter wagon.

Anyway - I’ll be back in the morning to catch up on what I’ve missed.

Coming back to this with what I wanted to say since you didn't actually follow up: Why did you want to create an equal counter wagon instead of making a wagon on Mala (who you now think is scum I guess???) the lead wagon?

i like competing wagons for looking back on after a flip. seeing how they rise/fall, which one takes off, and how hard it is to get momentum on is good info.

e.g.

no competing wagons based on the last votecount

now there is small competing wagons

i've already said i don't have any strong reads - but i find how hard mala is to make a sufficient wagon on vs. me or hut is telling. look back on that d2+.

Ugh, I hate that these answers don't line up, but there is just enough wiggle room they can if you squint.

[VP Baltar]

i can do a readlist if you really want but zzzz

I do want. It doesn't need to be a huge lift. You can just open a new post and tell me what you FEEL

[VP Baltar]

Ugh, I hate that these answers don't line up, but there is just enough wiggle room they can if you squint.

did you look at the LINKS i provided?

Your post is giving me life as I internally spiral with anxiety that what started as a half assed push from me is hopefully on actual scum here.

[VP Baltar]

not really, and if i was i wouldn't say so

like im currently writing it im just being whiny

Why is this taking so longgggg

[VP Baltar]

ggs town. nice work fire and Enchant for not giving into wifom at the end.

ggs scum because I still love you all.

[VP Baltar]

Post #46 (isolation #23) » Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:45 am

i'm sorry i am so stupid

Revenge is mine.