Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[catboi]

Vote Count 1.12

I think this is The New Radicals?

PenguinPower (7):

VP Baltar, implosion, Datisi, Gamma Emerald, hutmeil, Save The Dragons, Aristeia

Malakittens (3):

PenguinPower, Something_Smart, Andante

hutmeil (2):

GeorgeBailey, fireisredsir

Gamma Emerald (1):

Malakittens

With 13 alive, it took 7 to eliminate.

[Gamma Emerald]

duskpost (probably)

[Save The Dragons]

TWILIGHT

[Save The Dragons]

NEW MOON

[Gamma Emerald]

ECLIPSE

[catboi]

PenguinPower got a fatal case of the dreamer's disease on Day 1.

He was a...

Spoiler:

mafia goon[/spoiler]

[catboi]

It is now

Night 1

.

The deadline for Night 1 is

July 7

at

7:30 PM EST

. Submit night actions by PM, if applicable.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-07-07 19:30:00)

[catboi]

VP Baltar crashed his Mercedes Benz on Night 1.

He was a...

Spoiler:

vanilla townie

[/spoiler]

[catboi]

It is now Day 2.

Vote Count 2.00

Not Voting (11):

Andante, Aristeia, Datisi, fireisredsir, Gamma Emerald, GeorgeBailey, hutmeil, implosion, Malakittens, Save The Dragons, Something_Smart

With 11 alive, it's 6 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is July 17 at 8:00 PM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-07-17 20:00:00)

[fireisredsir]

hi

the remaining scumteam is implosion+georgebailey

no i will not be elaborating at this time

thanks, have a nice day

VOTE: implosion

[Andante]

I agree on implosion 100%

VOTE: implosion

Just looking at implosion trying to justfy a sr on penguin before he voted it was odd, and he was also one "of the first" to jump on the penguin SR after a handful of people said stuff.
I think Ari is the partner though, but I agree with implosion so I'll vote there

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: fireisredsir

[Aristeia]

I'm planning to just sheep Datisi and get princess carried this game

[fireisredsir]

ok a few actual thoughts

1) penguin went down easy and didn't really fight back at all. this kinda makes me think that scum were ok with him going down there. which kinda makes me think at least 1 scum was on him. not guaranteed cause maybe he did just give up, but thats my leaning. i don't want to hunt exclusively on the wagon but the names off it don't look super appealing to me rn anyway besides maybe mala (and maybe georgebailey but we'll think about that later)

2) i think penguin's responses surrounding implosion were p awk when i questioned him on it early. never really talking directly to implosion but talking about him in a weird mostly-joking-but-not-really way

3) third point was mostly about vp, which no longer matters (rip :<), but still relevant is implo's response to vp in 539, which i could see coming from scum. same goes for 584, which is a sorta strange criticism of andante for criticizing vp questioning implo's read on penguin. something about it just sorta feels informed to me

4) agree with datisi there is very low chance ss tried to start a mala counterwagon unless he's going for the risky 200iq play of "I would never do this as scum" which just really doesn't seem like his style

5) while rereading i did find 932 again which reminded me that i think that is a decent reason to give townpoints to implosion. so, hmm. may have to go read an implosion scum game to see what that feels like

6) 1246 and 1248 prob just mean it's datisi town. if he wanted to defend penguin, he could go with the "we don't get much info from this" route and just hard case somewhere else (like me!). if he wanted penguin to die, he could just push there. i think bringing up that we don't get much info (which in isolation feels kinda like a soft defense that people might scumread after a flip) but then pairing that with "so let's make sure we get more info" is PROBABLY just a towny approach to the situation. it does mean he could if scum prod for associations preflip to set some townies up to get pushed later. so there is some scum benefit. but i think it's less likely

[Aristeia]

I would 100% nightkill VPBaltar out of jealousy if I were scum but I also would not do it because it's super against Win Con and he's not that hard to manipulate.

[fireisredsir]

I'm planning to just sheep Datisi and get princess carried this game

this sounds nice

[Aristeia]

I think the last 2 scum are just Fire + Mala but I didn't actually think very hard I just drew a line in Dat's read triangle.

[Aristeia]

I'm planning to just sheep Datisi and get princess carried this game

this sounds nice

If he decides to throw me off the balcony because he doesn't trust me I will start crying.

[Aristeia]

the reason I kind of think maybe mala is partner'd to pengy is cuz I don't really see why Pengy does a half-assed CW at the last minute when he's almost certainly dying unless it's to try to distance and give his partner towncred.

It feels like some desperate last second distancing nonsense cuz realistically looking at what he was posting in the last day b4 he died um nobody remotely rational should town~read any of it?[Sorry Andante]

[fireisredsir]

I think the last 2 scum are just Fire + Mala but I didn't actually think very hard I just drew a line in Dat's read triangle.

[fireisredsir]

i do agree with the mala point tho

[Aristeia]

This is what I came up with:

[implosion]

the remaining scumteam is implosion+georgebailey

incorrect!

Just looking at implosion trying to justfy a sr on penguin before he voted it was odd, and he was also one "of the first" to jump on the penguin SR after a handful of people said stuff.

Yep - when there were many viable directions for the day to go, I chose to support VP Baltar, the now confirmed town player with some of the greatest sway in the town, when he was trying to get momentum on Penguin and couldn't. I was indeed one "of the first" to jump on Penguin. I don't know why that's in quotes! I was! I never really had a like, fully proper scumread on Penguin. I needed him to interact more with me, and he refused to over a long span of time. That's why it looks "odd".

I could have super easily done like ten other things yesterday. Why would I bus Penguin? If I would decide to bus him, why would I do it in this half-assed way where I never commit to scumreading him? So that I could jump off at the last second? If that's the case, why did I instead choose to yell at you for calling Penguin town for shitty reasons?

[Andante]

hmmmmm
UNVOTE:

[implosion]

ok a few actual thoughts

1) penguin went down easy and didn't really fight back at all. this kinda makes me think that scum were ok with him going down there. which kinda makes me think at least 1 scum was on him. not guaranteed cause maybe he did just give up, but thats my leaning. i don't want to hunt exclusively on the wagon but the names off it don't look super appealing to me rn anyway besides maybe mala (and maybe georgebailey but we'll think about that later)

2) i think penguin's responses surrounding implosion were p awk when i questioned him on it early. never really talking directly to implosion but talking about him in a weird mostly-joking-but-not-really way

3) third point was mostly about vp, which no longer matters (rip :<), but still relevant is implo's response to vp in 539, which i could see coming from scum. same goes for 584, which is a sorta strange criticism of andante for criticizing vp questioning implo's read on penguin. something about it just sorta feels informed to me

4) agree with datisi there is very low chance ss tried to start a mala counterwagon unless he's going for the risky 200iq play of "I would never do this as scum" which just really doesn't seem like his style

5) while rereading i did find 932 again which reminded me that i think that is a decent reason to give townpoints to implosion. so, hmm. may have to go read an implosion scum game to see what that feels like

6) 1246 and 1248 prob just mean it's datisi town. if he wanted to defend penguin, he could go with the "we don't get much info from this" route and just hard case somewhere else (like me!). if he wanted penguin to die, he could just push there. i think bringing up that we don't get much info (which in isolation feels kinda like a soft defense that people might scumread after a flip) but then pairing that with "so let's make sure we get more info" is PROBABLY just a towny approach to the situation. it does mean he could if scum prod for associations preflip to set some townies up to get pushed later. so there is some scum benefit. but i think it's less likely

Going in order on these and using this to springboard some of my own thoughts:

1) I feel there are tons of possible explanations for penguin not fighting back. Maybe he was busy IRL for the july 4th weekend. Maybe he never felt like he had a foothold in the game to fight back with. Maybe other scum were okay with him going down. Maybe other scum are in the lurkers, and Penguin never felt any motivation to try hard because he thought it was a lost cause. Why jump to this conclusion? Mala and georgebailey are two of the names I most want to push right now, so this "I'd rather hunt on the wagon except maybe these two people" thing really doesn't do it for me.

2) I don't disagree. I just happen to be town. It's possible Penguin wasn't really sure how to interact with me, I don't play games all that frequently these days but I've got a pretty good streak of correctly calling him town on d1 ever since one of his first newbie games where (iirc) he eluded me as scum, but that's ages ago.

3) Not gonna comment intensely on those posts of mine because sure, maybe I could make them as scum, but I happen to be town this game. I will use this as a springboard to a different thing, which is that I really don't see why I in particular would shoot VP here as scum. Yes, he's widely townread and led on penguin, but he was like the #1 person calling me town throughout the game. Plus, him dying should lend some extra credence to his townreads in this setup, because scum will want to shoot people they think are masons, and for instance I think it's possible scum misinterpreted my early interactions with VP as us being masons. Yes this also is a knock against Mala scum but I still want pressure there.

If VP dying points to anyone as scum it'd be like, Andante (though I think Andante is like, very high tier town for reasons I'll get into later). Not sure off the top of my head who else he was scumreading if anyone other than Penguin.

4) Which point was this from Datisi? I actually have one thing from S_S that I'm

intensely

suspicious of, which is his "oh well I guess I'll tie the wagons xd" vote on hutmeil. I feel like it easily could be S_S scum using his meta as a shield excuse to vote the scum wagon rather than the town wagon (I guess this doesn't make sense if the scumteam is exactly S_S-hutmeil but w/e, I also feel better about calling hutmeil town after how wagons went down yesterday).

5) I don't even remember what recent scum game I have if any. I can try to figure it out later if you want

6) Tend to agree, that pair of posts is pretty townie for Datisi.