LOST (Game Over)

[Bellaphant]

Mine?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella, I'm not following you at all here.

I literally just showed you a bunch of naked votes on my wagon, Dunn, Frog and your main reason for voting me was my naked votes. So that's 3 at the very, very least. These reads were held as their (your) best scum read FOR 25 PAGES. How do you not see a problem with that?

How is talking about my wagon not progressing the game? It gives me people to look at, one of which I am trying to get people to vote, but it's not happening.

What the fuck Bella?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It feels strange to me that you seem to be not really engaging with the fact that your counter was ceph, who you also don't want people to vote. I actually share 2/3 of your other scum reads, so this point bugs me.

Right, but counter wagon doesn't matter too much as only 7 votes. Like I said, they can't all be scum on my wagon but I expect scum to take advantage of a very comfortable place to sit for a long period of time.

[Roden]

I feel like Dancing Puppets could potentially be scum on the basis of a lot of their recent posts. Feel like there's a lot of stuff about them not necessarily having particularly distinct reads/being willing to sheep despite the fact that they have been quite active anyway. For how much they've posted it feels like there's a real lack of content there.

Do you think scum just admits they're going to sheep at the beginning of the game?

Granted, I think both heads of the hydra are normally very headstrong about their reads. It's a bit weird to see them both want to take a back seat.

this is such a weird post, i cant tell what roden actually believes.
its like hes trying to discrrdit malcolms thoughts, but then he actually says something thats sorta in agreeance with them?

If this is indeed the case. then this will be the first time Roden hasn’t read me correctly. I pretty much didn’t do jack early in DC either so anyone being suss on either of us for activity reasons can just get wrecked.

I don't have a read on you at all yet, and I didn't mention anything about activity.

I think I can read (at least) Nancy fairly consistently...in a game half the size of this one. But with this many players I think both heads are just getting drowned out. You two just aren't positioned in the game like you normally would be, and it's harder to get a read on where your heads are at in relation to everyone else when you aren't feasibly going to have the interactions and associations I tend to rely on to figure you out. And I don't think it's because of your decision to hang back a bit this game, the overall game activity is just so overwhelming that it's hard for more than a core few people to maintain a presence.

Tangentially related, finding out that Johnny apparently has 96 posts kinda stunned me. That's honestly way more than I would expect from him for a single Day phase, but he's still registered as "low activity" in my mind because his entire presence is basically him chewing on the end of a piece of straw and being funny every once in a while. His ISO is actually fine when skimming but he's easily getting overshadowed by the dozen bigger personalities at the forefront of the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't even remember where I was trying to go with this anymore.

I'll come back to this later

[Bellaphant]

Because I don't think that's what happened? It is if you take away all the context, yes, but not in reality. I think that's why we are frustrating each other - you are telling me something you see as true, but I am also trying to tell you something true. You weren't 'my best scum read' for 25 pages, I'm frustrated with myself that I didn't vote ceph way before I unvoted you, but 25 pages here can also happen while we are asleep! I had a pile of scum reads, some of which we share. I dunno if people's reads list was more ordered than mine, in which case if you were 'bottom' of everyone's I guess it's a bit of a safe read, but even that isn't massively scummy, I think a few people have been borrowing those reads list for inspiration at least.

It isn't even 'naked votes ' - I've already said it was because of the feeling around it, the sneakiness, which is the bit I think Roden is trying to highlight too , that votes happened in response to a series of things.

I feel like you are being...blinkered? I understand your issue but it feels very off without the context. Plus, it feels a bit like your posts about vasex, which both you and corwin used to drag the game back, which is maybe why I'm reacting so badly.

I agree that there's some issues on your wagon/people's continued scum read, but I disagree that they came out of nowhere. I spoke to you, I unvoted, but this recent block of posting has made me worried again and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect you to understand why, seeing as a lot of it is to do with you specific to wider context?

I also think there are wider issues with the readslists.

[Bellaphant]

Friday, really early morning, the wagons are
5 Frogsterking (JohnnyFarrar, Roden, Cephrir, Lukewarm, Galron)

4 Cephrir (BlueBloodedToffee, Dwlee99, PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell)

2 Galron (Bellaphant, The toad)
2 BlueBloodedToffee (Dunnstral, Cat Scratch Fever)
2 T-Bone (PenguinPower, Enchant)

Couple of hours later, the ceph wagon comes up. By bedtime, that wagon vanishes and you and frog have one vote different.
Sat pm, ceph wagon back, sat bedtime you are back down to two votes.

So...I understand why you would say scum could take advantage/sit on that wagon, but i would agree more if you were a leading wagon for a much longer chuck of time/the wagons weren't so shifty, etc. Same with the '25 pages ' - it's not a long time. This is why I said worries in the first place because it doesn't look that impactful.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're absolutely right Bella.

My apologies, and thank you

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The 25 pages thing is completely irrelevant given we're in a large. That were some really bad takes from me and I kind of wish I could delete them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella you made me feel dumb. On the brightside, I'm pretty sure you're town now so I got something from it.

[Bellaphant]

?? Now I'm sad /and/ confused

[The toad]

I mean frog encourages the Cephrir push and Bella pushes on him to townread frog so like

Yeah that's scummy I think

Can you reword this?. I don't recognize this as true but also maybe I can't read.

It might be my fault, as I said brain not work good right now? I meant like, you were encouraging him to townread frog at the very least? Let me quote some stuff to show what I mean

Bbt on this page feels town although not sure I could articulate why

[The toad]

Maybe it's the confidence of the what the fuck Bella thing followed by apologising feeling genuine

[Bellaphant]

Quotes would help yeah

P-edit at least I was a useful punching bag!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I was completely oblivious to the timing. I didn't realise it was only from Fri morning to Sat night, I just based it off # of posts and pages.

Every game I have played since being back has been remarkably slow and I've just caught onto something that wasn't relevant in the slightest.

[The toad]

Thanks for the clarification Lukewarm. I also don't need to find your dad.

thanks for the giggle

i don't really take issue with dunn scumreading me at this time. i haven't left my scum range at all. still curious why he's talking like a robot.

this is a real case of the metas but the fact roden hasn't done anything scummy yet is scummy

You were literally scum who said this about town!me in the last large theme we did lol

But also it's in your scum meta to snipe at people like this until they get tilted while you encourage people who trust you into following their tunnels

They are town for your SS, but 'town but I have reservations ' irl. That makes sense though, that's sort of what I picked up when I said about interaction

@roden, I think frog is a bit....pinball, but I do think they believe what they are saying.

VOTE: Cephrir

I've seen about enough, Rad makes a good point about BBT being a likely red herring. I think the solving was better when there was a healthy Ceph wagon rather than a healthy BBT wagon. Let's get this game state back on track for Town.

Thanks for the clarification Lukewarm. I also don't need to find your dad.

thanks for the giggle

i don't really take issue with dunn scumreading me at this time. i haven't left my scum range at all. still curious why he's talking like a robot.

this is a real case of the metas but the fact roden hasn't done anything scummy yet is scummy

You were literally scum who said this about town!me in the last large theme we did lol

But also it's in your scum meta to snipe at people like this until they get tilted while you encourage people who trust you into following their tunnels

uhhhh my recollection is that i spent that game tunnelling you because i thought your behavior was scummy and i could mislim you for it. are we talking about the same game

You went out of your way to provoke me and rally STD to attack me multiple times that game. I...don't know why you're pretending like that didn't happen.

And you also did the exact same thing in SCP, we were both scum there and you even talked about it as a strat in the scum chat.

VOTE: Ceph

Roden does post something Sus of Cephrir first to be fair

Frog then votes Cephrir, since Roden is Sus of Frog I don't expect him to take the bait here

You're encouraging frog town with your post, basically making it feel like there's not a market for a Frog push? I know you're only one person but I feel like in real time posts like that by a townie would have an outsized psychological impact, if that makes sense. I don't think this argument holds water if you're both scum.

Anyway Roden then starts pushing Cephrir more, votes Cephrir and then puts Frog as TBD instead of scum but I'm never clear on what changed on his actual read of Frog if that makes sense? Did I miss something

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Penguin and Dunn have both hit the "good enough for Day 1" threshold for me.

Luke, can you talk to me about this?

Apologies for going so far back, but it only takes a quick ISO. Where did the town read on Penguin come from?

[Roden]

I guess I understood the Poe more when they said about finding 1/3 scum. I am maybe interpreted it more like 'they aren't town right now so..'

I relied on klick for my ceph read but am kinda fine with it..

P-edit yes, agree.

They are town for your SS, but 'town but I have reservations ' irl. That makes sense though, that's sort of what I picked up when I said about interaction

@roden, I think frog is a bit....pinball, but I do think they believe what they are saying.

I just don't think anyone can actually have a PoE 48 hours into a 26 player game. There's an argument to be made that it's too absurd to come from scum, sure, but I don't think it's a believable thought process.

Dude..look at my iso..I have 133 posts. I've been playing this game like full time for the last 48 hours.

I don't think YOU could have a PoE in the last 48 hours because you've not had the opportunity to make one.

I saw the 1/3 and it didn't connect that Frog meant one third of the scum team, I thought he meant one out of the three was definitely scum.

And fair point that maybe it's just me that couldn't have a PoE atm. Though I don't think I could have a Day 1 PoE at any point tbh.

I just felt that Bella's clarification helped a bit and that Frog made a good point here. Well that, and I don't think Frog and Ceph are S/S and Ceph is scummier overall.

[Roden]

I guess I understood the Poe more when they said about finding 1/3 scum. I am maybe interpreted it more like 'they aren't town right now so..'

I relied on klick for my ceph read but am kinda fine with it..

P-edit yes, agree.

They are town for your SS, but 'town but I have reservations ' irl. That makes sense though, that's sort of what I picked up when I said about interaction

@roden, I think frog is a bit....pinball, but I do think they believe what they are saying.

I just don't think anyone can actually have a PoE 48 hours into a 26 player game. There's an argument to be made that it's too absurd to come from scum, sure, but I don't think it's a believable thought process.

Dude..look at my iso..I have 133 posts. I've been playing this game like full time for the last 48 hours.

I don't think YOU could have a PoE in the last 48 hours because you've not had the opportunity to make one.

I saw the 1/3 and it didn't connect that Frog meant one third of the scum team, I thought he meant one out of the three was definitely scum.

And fair point that maybe it's just me that couldn't have a PoE atm. Though I don't think I could have a Day 1 PoE at any point tbh.

I just felt that Bella's clarification helped a bit and that Frog made a good point here. Well that, and I don't think Frog and Ceph are S/S and Ceph is scummier overall.

@Toad

[Bellaphant]

I think you are thinking a lot harder about that post than I was I was just pointing out that at first I felt frog was a bit everywhere too, but that when I looked at their explanations I didn't feel it was scummy. I think the market clearly is there for a frog wagon, considering we haven't had a wagon over take it, it was just Roden posted something that I felt correlated with a similar reaction I'd had. I then felt like I had a useful convo with Roden out of it, which to me was more impactful than anything about frog

P-edit basically that.

[The toad]

Eh, I think it's still like slightly +scum but I can see how town you might behave that way too.

@Bella, I mean yeah a market for a frog wagon clearly exists, I guess what I meant to say was something like, that would make it feel like momentum is better elsewhere? That a frog wagon would probably be doomed in the long term and will get stale. Idk maybe that's just the vibe I got reading through but I very much don't expect frog to be the Lim today.

@Roden, Another thing I'm surprised by is your treatment of me this game. I know I've been inactive and what I've shown hasn't been amazing, which explains why people put me at null or slightly below, but you've put me as hard scum the entire time and you don't appear to like, be asking me anything or sorting while I'm here? And again you should know I'm not the kind of player who can only lurk as scum and can't look town. What's up with that?

[Bellaphant]

I mean that didn't happen in that post, or... anywhere. *Shrug*

[The toad]

Shrug, I don't really follow you but as I've said many times I feel very off right now so maybe I'm just talking nonsense idk

[Klick]

(I tried to call you!)

Do you always move your vote around this much?

Not always, only when I'm not really sure what I want.

I'd like to know how you're reading BBT's current page content btw.

[Roden]

And again you should know I'm not the kind of player who can only lurk as scum and can't look town. What's up with that?

What do you mean? Have we played together before?

I don't really get what you mean by "my treatment of you" either, I just think your posts have been scummy. I don't really have any questions I want to ask you, and I'm not particularly interested in casing you, I preferred Frog and now Ceph over you and I can just get to you on a day I consider you a higher priority. It's the same reason I'm not going after C&G atm even though I scum read them and have a case set aside in my drafts. I don't want to juggle multiple cases on Day 1 when it's already overwhelming enough to keep up with everything else in the game.

I am interested in how you react to my scum read though, that's basically my way of sorting you in the meantime. Because as it is now, you didn't really have an opinion on me at all until you were asked to. I think you had me at Null for Pooky's read list request, which implies that my read on you didn't factor much into your own reads for the longest time.