Large Normal 240: Baileyposting [game over]

[Prince of Paterson]

I'm okay with an Enchant elim. I think that one of my townreads is likely wrong. Could be Greeting, I suppose, but he might be right about Unsure.

VOTE: Firebringer

Yeah there is a virtually 0.00% chance you are getting me to vote Fire over Enchant, Owen, or

you

today.

I wasn't even trying to get Fire to vote Fred there, I merely pointed out how bad his argument for defending him was, and frankly Fire jumping to Fred as a result isn't a bad look, especially given it also made Gamma do the same, and Gamma just died and was town.

....And it led to a quick scumhammer by Enchant, of course.


Very much dislike the quick jump onto Fire. The quick jump on Unsure is a lot more understandable.


"I'm ok with an Enchant elim"

*Votes Fire while giving no reason for it*

You're gonna have to explain that Fire vote for me in detail because this looks like scum saying he's ok with killing another scum, but voting town for no damned reason.

Sure, I can go into more detail later if you'd like. The short answer is that by the end of day yesterday I started to feel like Firebringer was scum regardless of Fred's alignment. I don't expect to convince you of it and will probably switch to whichever wagon out of Enchant and Unsure needs more momentum. It's mostly a vanity vote. I don't think either are a quick jump though, as both were in my pool of most likely scum.

[Prince of Paterson]

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

Greeting, it's possible for people to both think that you're town and also disagree with your reads and direction. You might end up being more correct on your reads than I am, I was wrong on Fredrick, but I haven't found your cases convincing so far. I think you look for very different things when making your reads and it makes them hard for me to connect to or agree with.

[Crescent]

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

When have I

ever

said I townread you?

[Crescent]

In fact, to go a step further:

I gave reasons, some stronger than others, why

eight[/] players might be town to start day 2.

Andante, Bugspray, Enchant, Fire, Gera, Lowell, Owen, and Vivax, are all probably town to varying degrees.

Andante due to Meg's awful vote and her reaction to the bad train.

Bugspray because Fred was trying to literal policy vote them with 9 days left in day 1 to save Meg.

Enchant's vote on Bugspray reeks of town making it for funsies. Also don't think two scum jump on at the same time.

What Fire did with Meg alongside Pooky generally isn't ever a bus.

Gera's last two posts of the day are not posts I see him making as scum. Gera doesn't naughty point someone for a hammer if he knows the guy is going to flip scum.

Lowell either went super hard into bussing or other than me was the only town to actually still be playing before the day ended.

The way Fred stirred up Owen and Vivax suggests both are town. I already had Vivax as town anyway. He was clearly fanning that fite as an outsider and using bad logic in the process.

Andante, Gamma, Gera, Lowell, and Vivax are probably all town regardless. Lowell could be super-chaotic scum, or Andante/Meg could have done something really messed up, but those are niche possibilities that don't stand out at present.

Side note: I feel like Greeting pretty blatantly attempted to pocket me earlier today, and he also left both Bugspray and Lowell in his POE, which MT notably did not. If there's any "Wild Card" that wouldn't surprise me to see turn out scum in either scenario, it's him. I'll likely be dead long before the game gets to this point, but if all the more "obvious" scum candidates are gone, and there's still a scum left, look at this guy. If anyone is a "Deepwolf" candidate to me, it's Greeting.

That's the point of being a "Deepwolf".

I would not kill any of those players before I killed Greeting at this present time.

Saying I've ever called you town is flat out making things up.

[Crescent]

In fact, to go a step further:

I gave reasons, some stronger than others, why

eight[/] players might be town to start day 2.

Andante, Bugspray, Enchant, Fire, Gera, Lowell, Owen, and Vivax, are all probably town to varying degrees.

Andante due to Meg's awful vote and her reaction to the bad train.

Bugspray because Fred was trying to literal policy vote them with 9 days left in day 1 to save Meg.

Enchant's vote on Bugspray reeks of town making it for funsies. Also don't think two scum jump on at the same time.

What Fire did with Meg alongside Pooky generally isn't ever a bus.

Gera's last two posts of the day are not posts I see him making as scum. Gera doesn't naughty point someone for a hammer if he knows the guy is going to flip scum.

Lowell either went super hard into bussing or other than me was the only town to actually still be playing before the day ended.

The way Fred stirred up Owen and Vivax suggests both are town. I already had Vivax as town anyway. He was clearly fanning that fite as an outsider and using bad logic in the process.

Andante, Gamma, Gera, Lowell, and Vivax are probably all town regardless. Lowell could be super-chaotic scum, or Andante/Meg could have done something really messed up, but those are niche possibilities that don't stand out at present.

Side note: I feel like Greeting pretty blatantly attempted to pocket me earlier today, and he also left both Bugspray and Lowell in his POE, which MT notably did not. If there's any "Wild Card" that wouldn't surprise me to see turn out scum in either scenario, it's him. I'll likely be dead long before the game gets to this point, but if all the more "obvious" scum candidates are gone, and there's still a scum left, look at this guy. If anyone is a "Deepwolf" candidate to me, it's Greeting.

That's the point of being a "Deepwolf".

I would not kill any of those players before I killed Greeting at this present time.

Saying I've ever called you town is flat out making things up.

[Crescent]

In fact, you even responded to my comment that you're my #1 candidate for that kind of player in the game, so it's not like you can say you never noticed.

I am going on V/LA for the next few days. I uphold my reads I gave so far.

If by the time I get back

Fredrick A Campbell

is at E-1, I will announce intent to hammer and hammer against my better judgement, for the simple reason that it's best to eliminate someone than no one and this still seems to be the choice of most townies. Given the way Day 2 is going, realistically I don't see any other solution, and I would name

Fredrick A Campbell

as a townlean, not a townread too.

Hi

Gamma Emerald

.

And yes,

Crescent

, I worked with both you and

Vivax

, because both of you are active and both of you are my hard townreads. And if you don't trust me and think I'm a deepwolf because I'm good at emulating towniness (it is true, I am good at it), then look at whether my actions have harmed or benefitted town in this game. Not only did I vote out

Meg

, but also I'm not afraid to build my own case on Day 2. If

Fredrick A Campbell

flips red, it's going to be embarrassing for me as I keep defending him and pushing for a counterwagon, but I still keep doing it, because I think he's more likely town than mafia and I'm doing what I think is best for town.

And yes, the last days here in Europe have been really awful when it comes to heat. What's worst is that this is just the beginning, and the summers of the future will be looking like that thanks to climate change.

[Crescent]

One of those eight is dead, one of those eight is probably scum, and the other six are all people I have no interest in voting for anytime soon.

I'll take 7/8 to start day 2!

It is interesting though that you're not going after anyone on my townlist - You're just not going after my top scum either. Unsure being scum with Enchant is possible though, as Enchant jumped from MT to Fred while Unsure also had a wagon, and I kinda think MT is town for reasons that are admittedly not great given his general lack of productivity.

This would mean Enchant jumped from town train to town train and may have just been protecting Unsure.

[Greeting]

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

When have I

ever

said I townread you?

I have read your ISO very carefully and you are correct. You didn't call me a townread and my belief that you did was mistaken.

Nonetheless, I believe I am deserving of a townread for all my pro-town actions in this game. And if you think that I'm a scumread then I dare you to build an actual case against me and vote me out today instead of saying some deepwolf bs because you're being paranoid.

[Crescent]

Nevermind I see it.

VOTE: meg

This is an ISO read of someone who wanted to have a fun game but is disappointed to have drawn scum.

Malcolm also a good vote. Chipping at the edges of ideas without ideas.

Wasn't too keen on Lowell D1 but also almost close to confirmed town for me from the info we have now.

Specifically this post. I don't think scum makes this post as the vote leader concerning someone scum would pretty desperately want to see remain in the POE in Lowell. This one post gives me a soft town read on Malcolm, as it's a thought no one else in the game specifically wrote out. and it feels like a genuine process to sort Lowell.

[Greeting]

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

You said your reason for townreading Malcolm was meta. Does this hold with his passivity on day 2?

Yes. I really care more about

Unsure

,

Malakittens

or you than

MalcolmTucker

right now.

I get it. He's passive and aloof. But that's the exact same way he was in my game. Sometimes you don't read the play but the man (woman). I'd rather go and vote out a slot who has done virtually nothing instead of him (Dwlee99 - reasoning 885,

Malakittens

is notorious for hating rolling scum in games) or the one I've spent big effort building a case on (

Unsure

).

[Crescent]

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

When have I

ever

said I townread you?

I have read your ISO very carefully and you are correct. You didn't call me a townread and my belief that you did was mistaken.

Nonetheless, I believe I am deserving of a townread for all my pro-town actions in this game. And if you think that I'm a scumread then I dare you to build an actual case against me and vote me out today instead of saying some deepwolf bs because you're being paranoid.

Of course I'm being paranoid. You're obviously one of the most dangerous players in this game. It's practically my duty to be paranoid.

And, if you're town, you should be paranoid about me. It's simply natural.

Like, Gamma townread me almost immediately in 2272 without giving a reason, and I immediately got suspicious of it. Players that throw shade on me early and often are very often town, as I tend to be a magnet for early scumleans from town players who don't know me. In 2272 it was Scorpious. In 2273 it was Corwin. Can't talk about 2276 as that game isn't over yet.

[Greeting]

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

Greeting, it's possible for people to both think that you're town and also disagree with your reads and direction. You might end up being more correct on your reads than I am, I was wrong on Fredrick, but I haven't found your cases convincing so far. I think you look for very different things when making your reads and it makes them hard for me to connect to or agree with.

Of course it is, and I have shown great willingness to explore possibilities other than mine. In fact, most of my scumreads are a result of me reading posts of someone I townread. Could you please expand on why you think my cases are not convincing?

[Unsure]

Greeting you've camped on my slot all day yesterday and didn't engage me even though I sufficiently refuted your points against me. If you're truly town, you should at least consider that you're wrong about me. Your Meg push is the only thing about you and jury's still out there if it's a full bus.

If Malcolm flips scum, you could easily be scum for townreading MT for being the same as the game you modded but I can personally testify that MT is

not

playing his town game based on a game I shared with them, especially near end D1 and D2. They're more a shoot-from-the-hip here's-my-analysis guy but here he's been sheepish and distant. I think you holding on to that read even though D2 happened makes me think your reads are not progressing as much as they should be.

[Unsure]

Meanwhile, I still think we can elim between {MalcolmTucker, Enchant, Malakittens} and it will yield a scum flip.

[Crescent]

And you guys probably don't have it, but "rule #1" is a pretty big thing where I come from.

Rule #1 effectively being "If X player is still alive on day 3, and you don't have any good reason to townread them, they're probably scum." Unless scum has a strong power read on someone, the kill is on the "best player alive that scum thinks they can get away with shooting" almost every time.

We've had scum intentionally kill vanillas over PRs just to kill the PRs later so they have an excuse to still be alive. I've done it, myself~

Another part of why I shot a unclaimed-but-obvious-by-meta VT over 3 town PRs on night 3 the last time I was scum.. He was both the only person who was a serious threat to vote me out, and leaving all those PRs around gave me an excuse for staying alive.

[Crescent]

Greeting you've camped on my slot all day yesterday and didn't engage me even though I sufficiently refuted your points against me. If you're truly town, you should at least consider that you're wrong about me. Your Meg push is the only thing about you and jury's still out there if it's a full bus.

If Malcolm flips scum, you could easily be scum for townreading MT for being the same as the game you modded but I can personally testify that MT is

not

playing his town game based on a game I shared with them, especially near end D1 and D2. They're more a shoot-from-the-hip here's-my-analysis guy but here he's been sheepish and distant. I think you holding on to that read even though D2 happened makes me think your reads are not progressing as much as they should be.

I'd like to hear some elaboration on MT here, given I also soft-townread him.

[Greeting]

I am wondering why, in spite of being townread so widely, my reads, which I feel are very widely substantiated, are not being shared by the vast majority of players. The fact that there are players who supposedly townread me and whom I townread (

Crescent

comes to mind) and who for some reason keep refusing to work with me leads us nowhere. It's giving me a real headache and making me wonder if there is a point in me even speaking about my scumreads anymore.

And yes, some of you people who say are townreading me are lying scum who just know that there is not enough suspicion to scapegoat me and throw me out.

When have I

ever

said I townread you?

I have read your ISO very carefully and you are correct. You didn't call me a townread and my belief that you did was mistaken.

Nonetheless, I believe I am deserving of a townread for all my pro-town actions in this game. And if you think that I'm a scumread then I dare you to build an actual case against me and vote me out today instead of saying some deepwolf bs because you're being paranoid.

Of course I'm being paranoid. You're obviously one of the most dangerous players in this game. It's practically my duty to be paranoid.

And, if you're town, you should be paranoid about me. It's simply natural.

Like, Gamma townread me almost immediately in 2272 without giving a reason, and I immediately got suspicious of it. Players that throw shade on me early and often are very often town, as I tend to be a magnet for early scumleans from town players who don't know me. In 2272 it was Scorpious. In 2273 it was Corwin. Can't talk about 2276 as that game isn't over yet.

I was not paranoid about you. I saw the amount of effort you put into the game and that was enough for me to deduce that you're not a threat. Scums are very rarely high posters. Being a high poster always increases the risk of slips. The more you say, the more can be used against you.

I am now getting paranoid about you

, because the influence you have over this game by getting too widely townread is excessive and in spite of this fact you seem to completely ignore my attempts to work with you and paint me as a threat without having any evidence to support it. While I am still willing to believe that the source of this is pure paranoia and the (wrong) belief that I'm too good to be read accurately, there is also a second explanation and that is that my scum reads are correct and you are using your influence on this game to steer townies away.

I am annoyed and frustrated because I simply cannot win this game without working with other townies, and I am yet to hear a convincing argument why are my reads/suspicions wrong as my instincts in this game have been spot-on so far.

[Crescent]

Good, be paranoid about me if you're town. It's better for the game.

I've already said I could see Unsure pairing up pretty well with Enchant, who is the #1 person I want dead.

Why do you think Enchant is town?

[UNOwen]

I'm not paranoid about either Crescent or Greeting, both are surely town.

Specifically this post. I don't think scum makes this post as the vote leader concerning someone scum would pretty desperately want to see remain in the POE in Lowell. This one post gives me a soft town read on Malcolm, as it's a thought no one else in the game specifically wrote out. and it feels like a genuine process to sort Lowell.

Good reminder that I wanted Malcolm to answer 918.

[Unsure]

I'd like to hear some elaboration on MT here, given I also soft-townread him.

As I said, I don't think town!MT comes in 8 days before deadline with a careless vote/hammer on a slot he townread all day just because a case convinced him — even though the slot ended up being scum.
Their angle on Fred is pure piggyback instead of anything that resembles a spark of originality — but on top of it all, there's nothing about MT's play that makes me think they're curious enough or solving the game.

The points against them being scum is "sloppiness" where people don't believe scum would play the way he did (in a way that endangers their slot/throws them under the bus as i understand it) but what was their alternative here? Anti-spew is a thing, especially if your slot is in danger of real elimination. I even think lack of self-preservation is scummy.

[Crescent]

I'm not paranoid about either Crescent or Greeting, both are surely town.

What makes either of us "surely town"?

[Lowell]

VOTE: unsure

Let’s kick some asses woooo!

[Lowell]

Oh neat it’s my scumday! Oof 16 years damn I must be old.

[Andante]

oooh happy 16 years!!!!

[Andante]

is there a tldr: investigate guilty anywhere?