Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

[froggodoggo]

Froggo, can the same not be applied to Infinity? Check my previous post regarding their read progression on Enchant and tell me how it makes sense.

Furtive is town for our EoD1 discussion

Maybe idk. I'll read up on infinity shortly.

What page is this discussion?

[froggodoggo]

i mean after the past few pages i still don't have more than a slight scumlean on BBT. still prefer csf to be honest. i guess furtive is towny for agreeing with me there (also i don't really see a reason for scum to be starting a big fight here? maybe if like enchant is a buddy. idk)

hi infinity

[Alianna]

2.03

Votecount 2.03

froggodoggo (2): Hiraki, Klick
Infinity 324 (2): BlueBloodedToffee, Cat Scratch Fever
Klick (1): Lucian
furtiveglance (1): froggodoggo

Not Voting (5): Infinity 324, Dunnstral, furtiveglance, Gamma Emerald, Aisa

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2022-08-01 21:16:50).

[Aisa]

@Infinity

any thoughts on furtive after the night phase?

Mala was killed because she was town from Enchant flip btw

How confident are you on this? What do you think of the other theories that have been proposed?

[Aisa]

Surprised to see people saying this was a bad kill or even a vig shoot -- to me this is pretty obviously a low info kill which I find usually indicates that mafia are playing very well in the day and so they can sacrifice a potential suspect like Mala in order to keep the gamestate the same.

Like the only Mafia I can see making this kill is... possibly you? It's too out of left field for anyone else

Explain? I wouldn't make this kill, I genuinely thought I'd be shit on at the start of this day and so I as mafia would probably kill whoever would look best after I flip red and try to talk my way out of the elim as best as possible.

But this isn't a great argument since it only really applies if you already trust me.

Do you have any idea of what players would be in position to make a kill like this in this game based on your reasoning?

I also kinda want this answered froggo

[furtiveglance]

Skimming through when enchant first got voted and furtive is catching my attention.

Spoiler:

Was initially opposed to the enchant vote:

I don't like the Enchant vote, they read more town than scum to me. I'd take a BBT vote if Hiraki is really against CSF going, but I'm feeling like CSF is scum.

The thing that sticks in my mind is them asking GE whether they would sheep them on a read - the concept of having good reads or bad reads showed a Town POV.

and mentions Enchant when talking to other players multiple times, but never once tries to actually interact with Enchant. this is something I thought was scummy of furtive earlier in the game but now that it applies directly to a flipped scum I think it's a lot more concerning.

My reason for chainsawing for Enchant was less that I townleaned them for their ISO, but more that I scumread other people more and considered some Enchant voters (e.g. BBT) to be voting the easy wagon.

this also doesn't align with their earlier TR of enchant

I'm going to bed now. Hiraki/Me/Lucian/Aisa/Froggo are the towncore, Dunnstral/Enchant/Infinity/Klick/Malakittens have done enough for a temporary townpass, BBT/CSF/GE contains the motherload of Impostors.

With this list, the phrase 'have done enough for a temporary townpass' was only really about Infinity and Klick. The other three I'd say haven't done enough to be town, but also haven't stood out to me as scummy in the same way that my bottom three have.

here is furtive trying to sneak Enchant into their "townpass" list

I'm not really buying it, but I'll unvote anyway to see what others think.

could see this coming from town but it's certainly fence-sitty and an unvote on scum is an unvote on scum.

Oh I forgot to say, I'm not going to give PR claims the usual respect in this setup, because I would definitely pick a random role as scum.

This you?

Yes it's me. I literally said I'm not buying it, but I want to allow discussion first. If others also doubt the claim I will re-vote.

nice one from BBT again, wack that yall think BBT is scum

Cat Scratch Fever (E-2): furtiveglance, Lucian, Infinity 324, froggodoggo, Klick

and to backtrack a bit, furtive was on the early CSF wagon, and i'm pretty sure CSF is town. Klick and Lucian also look pretty good IMO so I think furtive being a scum on this wagon fits nicely.

VOTE: furtiveglance

BBT and others who TR furtive, talk to me about why please?? this ISO is riddled with scumpings that connect them to Enchant and I want em outta here

Ayo why me breh?

On the real though, I was initially wrong on Enchant but reconsidered when Hiraki and Lucian (conftown and strong TR) voted them, and Lucian in particular made a strong case on them. As for "unvote on scum is an unvote on scum", I didn't want a Doctor to get hammered before anyone weighed in. I literally said I didn't buy the claim and supported that elimination.

[Lucian]

I have a very dumb reason to think Dunn is Townie. He said how nobody called out the fact Enchant was different than in Terminator beforehand, right? I feel like an Enchant scumbuddy would know that was called out, and this seems like something very weird to fake. I dunno.

I agree that Klick is very likely town from the Enchant flip, my unvote of Enchant looks bad, I agree with that, too. But I started scum reading Klick and it gave me second thoughts about Enchant. My scum read on Klick was going nowhere either in terms of building a wagon so if I wanted to pick a counter wagon for Enchant I could have chosen someone better than Klick.

Why is Klick Townier from the Enchant flip?

[Klick]

I have zero qualms seeing this as Dunn's scum game, having also gone through some of his recent stuff
I felt like he was really easy for me to read as town in NQNM2, and the fact that I haven't felt he's town here has had me on alert. But I haven't really had sufficient reason to outright think he's scum.

I can't pinpoint exactly what the difference is though? I guess Dunn felt really... idk, loose, willing to go against the grain without clear benefit to himself. It could be that he's got less to disagree with here. Or he's just not as into this one - he did say he felt there wasn't much to work with earlier. Or maybe he's scum. I don't know


Gamma however just has waaay more clear interest in straight solving as town than faking it in a compelling way as scum I feel. Here right from the get-go he just starts solving, boom froggo townread, boom Klick townread, let's see if furtive slips on Hiraki knowledge randomly, it's scummy let's vote him, oh look Lucian is town, etc. It's clear his top interest is in solving the game. I haven't felt that sort of energy from playing with them being scum previously. And it's consistent throughout the game, Gamma actually just wants to solve this and that seems obvious to me.

[Lucian]

I want to make my vote useful in the meantime:

VOTE: Infinity

Interested in them explaining their progression on Enchant and the re-evals they said they'll do. Helps that I townread both the people voting them currently.

[Gamma Emerald]

I want to make my vote useful in the meantime:

VOTE: Infinity

Interested in them explaining their progression on Enchant and the re-evals they said they'll do. Helps that I townread both the people voting them currently.

This feels wack. You’re interested in Infinity’s re-evals but also feel okay voting them?

[Infinity 324]

will get to this tomorrow

[Lucian]

You’re interested in Infinity’s re-evals but also feel okay voting them?

Yes? The re-evals are going to be interesting to me because I think they're going to help me solve their slot.

My post doesn't imply that I Townread Infinity.

[Gamma Emerald]

It does feel like you’re cool w Infinity dying tho in spite of wanting the re-eval content

[Lucian]

I'm cool with pressuring them, not sure where you're pulling the rest out of.

[Gamma Emerald]

The mention of TRing the people voting Infinity
It makes it seem like you’re already on board eliminating there.

[Lucian]

I think they have above rand chance of being scum currently. The fact that people whom I Townread are voting there helps. I am not advocating for a quicklim, as indicated by the fact that I said I want to see their re-eval.

[Dunnstral]

Actually, I changed my mind about furtive, I don't think they look that bad. Klick, do you think that 475 is anti-partner indicative between BBT and froggo? (I do)

I'm pretty satisfied with that post being about a scumbuddy - but I'm interested in why you think otherwise. He puts some effort into casing froggo, but it doesn't really go anywhere.

It would mean BBT would be drawing attention to one scum buddy before voting for the other one, which while possible does not feel like the most likely series of events. Also this attention on Froggo sort of came out of nowhere so I'm not sure why they would do that as mafia partners.

[Dunnstral]

The case on enchant was never "enchant is not doing anything"

It was "enchant is doing less than usual"

And based on my experiences that's not true; I've always seen them post at about this rate

[Cat Scratch Fever]

We can agree to disagree on how accurate the meta tell is, or if we nabbed him D1 by sheer dumb luck

but what you said in second paragraph of 965 is still not correct

[froggodoggo]

Surprised to see people saying this was a bad kill or even a vig shoot -- to me this is pretty obviously a low info kill which I find usually indicates that mafia are playing very well in the day and so they can sacrifice a potential suspect like Mala in order to keep the gamestate the same.

Like the only Mafia I can see making this kill is... possibly you? It's too out of left field for anyone else

Explain? I wouldn't make this kill, I genuinely thought I'd be shit on at the start of this day and so I as mafia would probably kill whoever would look best after I flip red and try to talk my way out of the elim as best as possible.

But this isn't a great argument since it only really applies if you already trust me.

Do you have any idea of what players would be in position to make a kill like this in this game based on your reasoning?

I also kinda want this answered froggo

Probably players with the most townreads, if i had to name names I think i'd be looking at aisa and lucian? But I don't necessarily think either are scum rn I need to look further

[froggodoggo]

Skimming through when enchant first got voted and furtive is catching my attention.

Spoiler:

Was initially opposed to the enchant vote:

I don't like the Enchant vote, they read more town than scum to me. I'd take a BBT vote if Hiraki is really against CSF going, but I'm feeling like CSF is scum.

The thing that sticks in my mind is them asking GE whether they would sheep them on a read - the concept of having good reads or bad reads showed a Town POV.

and mentions Enchant when talking to other players multiple times, but never once tries to actually interact with Enchant. this is something I thought was scummy of furtive earlier in the game but now that it applies directly to a flipped scum I think it's a lot more concerning.

My reason for chainsawing for Enchant was less that I townleaned them for their ISO, but more that I scumread other people more and considered some Enchant voters (e.g. BBT) to be voting the easy wagon.

this also doesn't align with their earlier TR of enchant

I'm going to bed now. Hiraki/Me/Lucian/Aisa/Froggo are the towncore, Dunnstral/Enchant/Infinity/Klick/Malakittens have done enough for a temporary townpass, BBT/CSF/GE contains the motherload of Impostors.

With this list, the phrase 'have done enough for a temporary townpass' was only really about Infinity and Klick. The other three I'd say haven't done enough to be town, but also haven't stood out to me as scummy in the same way that my bottom three have.

here is furtive trying to sneak Enchant into their "townpass" list

I'm not really buying it, but I'll unvote anyway to see what others think.

could see this coming from town but it's certainly fence-sitty and an unvote on scum is an unvote on scum.

Oh I forgot to say, I'm not going to give PR claims the usual respect in this setup, because I would definitely pick a random role as scum.

This you?

Yes it's me. I literally said I'm not buying it, but I want to allow discussion first. If others also doubt the claim I will re-vote.

nice one from BBT again, wack that yall think BBT is scum

Cat Scratch Fever (E-2): furtiveglance, Lucian, Infinity 324, froggodoggo, Klick

and to backtrack a bit, furtive was on the early CSF wagon, and i'm pretty sure CSF is town. Klick and Lucian also look pretty good IMO so I think furtive being a scum on this wagon fits nicely.

VOTE: furtiveglance

BBT and others who TR furtive, talk to me about why please?? this ISO is riddled with scumpings that connect them to Enchant and I want em outta here

Ayo why me breh?

On the real though, I was initially wrong on Enchant but reconsidered when Hiraki and Lucian (conftown and strong TR) voted them, and Lucian in particular made a strong case on them. As for "unvote on scum is an unvote on scum", I didn't want a Doctor to get hammered before anyone weighed in. I literally said I didn't buy the claim and supported that elimination.

All of this is true but none of it makes me think you're not mafia /shrug

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I don't get the impression that Aisa is widely townread at all

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Froggo, you understand the post you quoted from Infinity means it's unlikely Furtive is aligned with Enchant and it's more likely that scum!Infinity tried to tie town!Furtive to Enchant, right?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1026 to be precise

[Lucian]

1.19

Votecount 1.19

Enchant (E-1): Hiraki, Lucian, Cat Scratch Fever, BlueBloodedToffee, Malakittens, furtiveglance
BlueBloodedToffee (3): Infinity 324, froggodoggo, Klick
Malakittens (2): Enchant, Dunnstral
furtiveglance (2): Gamma Emerald, Aisa

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2022-07-24 18:36:43).

This was the VC (with furtive unvoting Enchant and Klick voting him) when BBT made 760 and the following posts against Klick. I don't think this makes sense coming from an Enchant partner because nobody wanted to kill Klick at the time? I think I was suspicious of him, but I made it clear I preferred Enchant, and I'm not sure if anyone else was. And BBT is calling Klick Town Today. So I'm really not sure what scum!BBT gains from this diversion and why he does it in the first place.