Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

[Gamma Emerald]

I should probably 'give my thoughts on the main wagon' since I scumread someone for not doing that D1.

Infinity is sus, don't get me wrong. I feel like scum!Infinity didn't have to go for me though, froggo was an easier pivot (maybe I misread the room on that one).

So I'm basically thinking either froggo/Infinity are paired, or Infinity is town.

ngl that would explain froggo’s jump on you.

Oh you just agreed with me? But then I sussed YOU!

Oml
Idk what alignment you are but you are the most disingenuous person I have ever come in contact with. Everything you post feels fake!

[furtiveglance]

I just thought it was funny timing.

[Gamma Emerald]

But like, I was genuinely confused at wtf frog was doing, so your theory actually put out a logic to something I found illogical. So I feel kinda needlessly attacked rn. Why tf the need to “pay it forward”? Feels more like throwing shade hoping something sticks.

[furtiveglance]

I'm not attacking you, I just thought "I'll vote Infinity later" gave me reluctance vibes. Pay it forward is usually used in a wholesome sense so that was just the phrase I used.

[Gamma Emerald]

So you did sus me just to turnabout-fair-play with Froggy. Yeah that’s a normal thing to do. /s
I’m reluctant cos Infinity is my friend and I don’t wanna just cut them off without giving them a chance
I feel like I should be able to read them well? Idr much times they’ve been scum against me tho, it’s more often been the other way round

[Gamma Emerald]

"Taking obvious jokey seriously" now, too.

froggo, how much mafia experience do you have?

i couldn't give you a number but like, a lot. i think all of these "scum pings" just come from me not being used to forum and not knowing anyone here. lemme breathe

VOTE: froggo

Infinity why did ur slot vote me earlier. i don't want to let that go unexplained.

the whole "i'm new and i'm flustered because i'm being pressured" is >rand scum.

-ash

ngl this feels on point with stuff I’ve seen and I would definitely pursue it further if infinity is flipped as town

[Gamma Emerald]

Because the town reads were based on weak sauce.

Reeks of TMI, you know?

It's also a very LAMIST approach

eheh with this and your sig i can't tell we're not gonna get along

-ash

To punctuate this, a while back Infinity had a sig that said a bunch of low-level “scumtells” didn’t actually work
So the beef with the buzzword-heavy hunting BBT was engaging in makes sense

[Aisa]

I think furtive is probably town

why?

furtive just feels kind of carefree. I still think the most likely explanation for all the jokes is that they’re town and post whatever comes to their mind. Especially true I think as they’ve been interacting with others a lot in real time. I think the interactions usually read like they are consistent with a town mindset. It doesn’t feel like they’re trying to make up crap.

Any posts I make in the next couple hours are from my phone so bear with me.

[Gamma Emerald]

This doesn’t make me feel any more confident furtive is scum but it does make me think Dunn is town

why?

This reminds me that part of my Dunn TR is him reacting as I would have hoped to me pressing furtive on using specific colors for specific alignments, since furtive got caught on that in Chromavalon

[Gamma Emerald]

Although based on that wagon on me that got to e-2, I'd be willing to hop on infinity

-_- do you really think you've been towny enough to say this

Did you review my CSF read? I don’t see a conclusion on that.

[Gamma Emerald]

this is probably not super relevant now, because i attribute a lot of the pressure on enchant to csf, but i promised to do it so

by play i really don't feel she's very towny even after looking over terminator. like i just don't agree that she was putting that much effort into looking town this game.

-_-

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma why do you like csf?

furtive feels towny to me tbh. i'm still not sure why he pushes BBT there so hard as scum.

not really into the enchant lim, the "think before i vote" thing is kinda meaningless to me and limming a contentless slot on d1 doesn't seem great. i'll vote there at deadline obviously though

interactions around Aisa and also ig Enchant
I feel like she's actually trying to follow up on recent meta to form her reads in this game
ig it could be faked but idk how much effort CSF!scum puts into fake town thought process as scum, I would wager rather little given in Terminator she got yeeted mostly because after getting UTR by bussing Koba, she just kinda sat around while the rest of the group tried to solve the rest of the game

This doesn’t really mesh w what Infinity seemed to think I was TR CSF for

[Gamma Emerald]

Also furtive’s D1 solve seems wack af in retrospect

[furtiveglance]

This doesn’t make me feel any more confident furtive is scum but it does make me think Dunn is town

why?

This reminds me that part of my Dunn TR is him reacting as I would have hoped to me pressing furtive on using specific colors for specific alignments, since furtive got caught on that in Chromavalon

I didn't get caught for anything in Chromavalon. My Merlin just banged on about it to show that they had a guilty on me.

[Gamma Emerald]

But it got you voted out

[furtiveglance]

I don't like thinking about that game. I had the right solve and my teammates disagreed.

[Aisa]

this is probably not super relevant now, because i attribute a lot of the pressure on enchant to csf, but i promised to do it so

by play i really don't feel she's very towny even after looking over terminator. like i just don't agree that she was putting that much effort into looking town this game.

-_-

Hmm yeah this feels like an interesting thing to follow up on. I’d be interested in seeing a more detailed explanation of this read.
I agree with what I think Gamma is saying, which is that “CSF is putting effort into looking town” is a bit of a misnomer. I think Gamma meant that CSF feels naturally effortful and interested in the game.
I think this may just be slight semantic confusion though. If we ignore the slightly odd phrasing I don’t see why this read couldn’t come from town.
Overall I’m interested in talking to Infinity a bit more. I’m nullish on them right now, like I don’t see a lot that would make me feel safe TRing them but there isn’t much I dislike there either.

[Aisa]

Infinity, I just went back and looked at furtive’s ISO and I see what you mean about furtive being a possible Enchant partner.

Curious what you think about this?

If you’re scumcasing me for a bad reaction to the Doc claim then you are also assuming Enchant is legit lol

No, I'm saying if your towncase on yourself is "I could have hammered X", it only makes sense if X is town. If X is mafia, "I could have hammered mafia and didn't" isn't a towncase, it's a scumcase. See what I mean?

(May be worth clicking on that post and reading some of the subsequent posts). This is one of the main interactions my townlean comes from at the moment.
idk it just feels like an easier post for town to make than scum.

Sorry I’m giving you so much homework I’d prefer you to prioritise talking about furtive over CSF.

[Aisa]

VOTE: froggodoggo
Torn but I like this as a vote at least for now

[Aisa]

Yes there is indeed 2 maf left. Also we can get a rough estimate of how many PRs have to exist with an RB flip.

Thought I'd have a lot more heat coming in to this day and it has been in the back of my head how I will defend myself. I think one big thing is that Enchant is the type of player who I would not be willing to die trying to save because I don't see them making it very far with so little content. Socially, I think that makes sense, but because Enchant was RB things coincidentally look bad for me.

Ty for the TR CSF, I think I TR you too for your reaction to the kill. Surprised to see people saying this was a bad kill or even a vig shoot -- to me this is pretty obviously a low info kill which I find usually indicates that mafia are playing very well in the day and so they can sacrifice a potential suspect like Mala in order to keep the gamestate the same.

Ik others have covered this a bit. It pains me to bring it up again, but I think I have a slightly different angle.

I’m not a fan of this post and I think it’s a combination of a few different things.
- it worries me that froggy felt such a need to justify themselves. I personally didn’t think they looked that bad at the end of day 1. This doesn’t seem that bad on its own, but:
- If I have to defend myself I think I’m more likely to point to things I *did* rather than things I *would* or *wouldn’t* do as mafia. The latter can never escape WIFOM to some extent. I understand that sometimes you just want to share what’s on your mind, but it doesn’t feel like the approach they’ve taken to defending themselves is actually the most constructive.
- While it’s possible that Mala was a scum kill, I don’t understand why froggy is so adamant that it was. In a post close to the one I quoted he says that “most kills are made by mafia”. Yes, but like, the chance of a SK or vig kill in this setup is non-negligible, and when you see an unconventional kill it’s natural to consider possibilities other than mafia.
- Overall I feel like they’ve shown concern with 1. defending themselves, 2. making “throwaway” comments on various quotes and snippets. What I am not seeing is convincing evidence of like, deeper thought
- Also the “let’s gooo” vote on furtive is sus. In my opinion it is day 2 and there is plenty with which to substantiate a read or a vote and I’m not a fan of the way froggy snappily reacted to furtive’s post.

[Aisa]

Is it possible I’m just misreading froggo here? Oh totally but it’s the best I have at this very point in time

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Enchant do you not care if you get voted out??

Then why aren’t you trying to not die

Let me into your mind, Enchant. >:)

Is this really a s/s interaction? I feel like something along these lines would be much more likely to go into a PT if genuine?

Enchant I’m not even voting you… but I’m really not a fan of players who don’t defend themselves. I ain’t convincing myself not to push u that’s ur job.

This does though? Frog seems reluctant to actually vote Enchant despite having reasons to? He also stated around here that he was lost in the game so this would seem to give him some direction and he doesn't take it up?

My biggest fear about the Enchant wagon is that Mala who is a literal question mark is on it and you are on it after getting pissy abt furtive. Maybe there was a reason for the switch but i don’t recall it rn

This is poor reaosning for avoiding the Enchant wagon.

At this point probably not. In most games that would be a nail in the coffin but there are replacements on this site and I did see Enchant do some solving in their overall site ISO. But you definitely do have a point. If y’all are gonna be advocating for Enchant’s death all game then maybe it’s worth getting it over with.

Does this read as a partner accepting their scum buddies fate to anyone else?

Putting Enchant at E-1 in 6 hrs if no one else has done so already

This post is weird. Why 6 hours? Why the reluctance to E-1 somebody? I think this is much more likely to come from scum!Frog than town!Frog.

Oh cool they claimed Doc

This was also a weird reaction to the claim. Not annoyed that we outed a Doc and not disbelieving the claim either. It just kind of does nothing?

Hi hello why are we killing the doc claim. I would like to have a doctor around tyvm!!

Believes the claim straight away and is not even the slightest bit aggrieved at a Doc being outing despite seemingly being against the wagon for so long.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

hmm, yeah I didn't remember the wording looking this bad from Enchant and Dunn catches it pretty instantly. could be a big ol mafia conspiracy but Dunn is probably town for this!!

I think this is a poor reason to townread Dunnstral btw

Someone can double check my math, but a majority of setups rolled will have a roleblocker. I thought 751 from Enchant was NAI

pedit: yes the intent to E-1 is odd

[Lucian]

But still, it wouldn't surprise me if scum saw a good opportunity to wagon a towny that was mentally checked out. I kind of expect it, in fact

Yeah, I'd sooner expect scum to wagon a checked out Townie than a Townie Townie.

Re 1158, I am not getting good vibes from Infinity's posts, no. I feel like I read their posts and got absolutely nothing from them. Because I did read them, but if you now asked me to tell you what content had Infinity put out, without going back to check, I'd have no clue what to tell you. And that is usually a cause for concern to me.

Hiraki’s thoughts

I'd appreciate this. I wanna know where he thinks I'm going wrong.

[Lucian]

Ugh, okay. 1116 is giving me bad vibes. It's like scum!Infinity was obviously angling towards voting furtive, and was looking for a trigger to vote furtive to make their vote seem more natural and Townie. Except the trigger doesn't make sense because "lol I'm softing SK" is a post that's obviously a joke because it's doesn't make sense from either Town or scum. So reading "how does that come from Town" feels disingenuous.

I do think furtive has pretty bad associates with Enchant, but they seem so shitposty and carefree and just doing their thing that I don't think they're the most likely scum here.

@furtive, have you ever elaborated on your Dunn read/vote? If not, can you?