Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[furtiveglance]

Human subject gang?

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Fireisredsir

[furtiveglance]

I thought I'd do a *sus* silent vote after getting voted.

[furtiveglance]

Nonono please I'm sorry.

[furtiveglance]

I'm begging you guys pls.

[furtiveglance]

It's slightly concerning how many mafia there are in this. I'd like to reassure other town that I am also town. Smile

[furtiveglance]

aw okay well if you ask so nicely

VOTE: aristeia

I am not sure how I feel about this vote switch, backing down immediately feels just a lil over conciliatory

It would be pretty dastardly of me to vote Dannflor after this!

[furtiveglance]

I wasn't thinking of hiding any reads, I feel like town will have a hard time as it is.

[furtiveglance]

Also, I feel obligated to talk about this game.

[furtiveglance]

I've played with Bell, Fire, RR and Roden here.

[furtiveglance]

Maybe we shouldn't talk about bans

[furtiveglance]

yeah check the last 10 games in the Newbie Queue I played in a few of those. Also some in Central Park, those are the only queues I've played in. Chromavalon, Deputy Cultists and Democrabilities I think.

[furtiveglance]

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

Definitely enjoying it, just interested!

[furtiveglance]

The british.
First they raze your village, and then they apologize for it.

I'm offensive and I find this British.

[furtiveglance]

Kuti, I tried to find your Sabi (?) account on MU and couldn't find it. Is it still there?

[furtiveglance]

I also have nothing to say, I feel like the game hasn't really started yet even though we have a 4-strong wagon already.

[furtiveglance]

Lolki seems townie to me from this:

one down four to go

I’m town and this flashwagon on me is as scummy as fuck.

Either way, great tone.

I suspect Vivax for this post, the 'either way' thing is too conscious of mafia faking tone.

VOTE: Vivax

[furtiveglance]

Roden is mafia.

[furtiveglance]

Pocketing Dannflor and Bell in quick succession.

[furtiveglance]

Lolki seems townie to me from this:

one down four to go

I’m town and this flashwagon on me is as scummy as fuck.

Either way, great tone.

I suspect Vivax for this post, the 'either way' thing is too conscious of mafia faking tone.

VOTE: Vivax

With or without TMI on Loki?
Changed my mind on him, got goosed by AtE.

VOTE: Loki

Loki's alignment doesn't matter, I'm saying you're mafia. Why are you trying to obfuscate/confuse the issue? Why would you even care whether you're 'mafia with someone' or not if you're town? Also this turnaround has not helped you.

[furtiveglance]

Lolki seems townie to me from this:

one down four to go

I’m town and this flashwagon on me is as scummy as fuck.

Either way, great tone.

I suspect Vivax for this post, the 'either way' thing is too conscious of mafia faking tone.

VOTE: Vivax

With or without TMI on Loki?
Changed my mind on him, got goosed by AtE.

VOTE: Loki

Loki's alignment doesn't matter, I'm saying you're mafia. Why are you trying to obfuscate/confuse the issue? Why would you even care whether you're 'mafia with someone' or not if you're town? Also this turnaround has not helped you.

If you have no opinion on Loki and think his alignment doesn't matter, me saying either way shouldn't bother you one bit unless you know something of Loki that I don't, which is probs that he's mafia.
So I naturally look to you like a townie who should appear scummy for that.

You are lock scum to me for this fyi.

VOTE: furtiveglance

I said you were mafia for having a mafia pov, then your response wasn't to defend yourself but just to go "Am I mafia with Loki or am I mafia with TMI on Loki being town?". I said I don't care whether you're paired or it's just you and Loki's town. Not that a player's aligment doesn't matter to me full stop.

[furtiveglance]

I also have played with scum!furtive before (but he doesn’t know it) and it’s not a lot to go on yet but he seems different here than in that game.

Very excite.

[furtiveglance]

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I don’t think he is because unless his scumgame has drastically improved, I get townpings from his posts here. Like he was flaming obvscum in that game and I don’t think someone’s scumgame improves that quickly.

And why is Roden town? It’s pretty much a coin flip which of you had the most suss takes on me.

Was my alignment revealed to you at gamestart? If not, there's 2 people you could be I think.

[furtiveglance]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

[furtiveglance]

LMFAO I was such obvious mafia - it was literally revealed to you!

[furtiveglance]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Why no read on Loki?
If town I highly advise to pay attention to who‘s pulling strings in here.
Cause it‘s neither of us.

Your reason to SR me is still wrong.

1) I don't townread Loki, all they did was complain they got wagoned and said they wouldn't have got voted on their other account (who cares?)

2) If anyone is pulling strings it's Dannflor. I also townread Dannflor initially but now I'm worried that mafia could create a mafia UTR quite easily since there are 5 of them, and am slightly paranoid that's happening here. Leaning town on Dannflor though.

3 Explain why you wanted to know whether I thought it was you/Loki or you TMIing Loki as town. How does that help you if you're town?

[furtiveglance]

Enchant literally outted themself in that game it was so frustrating they hammered town then TMIed them as townw immediately and our other teammate left and despite all that I had the correct solve and my teammates outvoted me arghhhhhhhhoig;zdxncm/W;S

Ok let's stop talking about that game.

[furtiveglance]

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

Thank you, it's a cute cat.

What is your experience with the players in this player list

I've played with Fire, Dann, Furtive, Roden, Guilty, Radicalrat

(but it always feels like I'm playing adjacent to them)

.
And I completely forgot if I played with Aris before or if I just chatted with them in a dead thread once.

I think getting a lay of the land is kind of both.

@Fire, same. Mostly I play this game to understand people. Speaking of which.
Are you scum?

I feel that. There are just some players that I never really interact with even across multiple games.

It's this for me. It's just fluff, designed to pocket Bell.

[furtiveglance]

Isn't leery when you're drunk, like leering at people?

[furtiveglance]

Nvmind I could have googled that.

[furtiveglance]

I might have been thinking of beery

[furtiveglance]

Feel currently best about Bell, KT, GL.

Put me in there, my scumgame is so bad like you said, you'd have read me by now

[furtiveglance]

If team is Dann, Furtive, Loki
Good luck outposting that

Why even make this post, respond to my other post addressed to you pleeeeeeeeeease

[furtiveglance]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Why no read on Loki?
If town I highly advise to pay attention to who‘s pulling strings in here.
Cause it‘s neither of us.

Your reason to SR me is still wrong.

1) I don't townread Loki, all they did was complain they got wagoned and said they wouldn't have got voted on their other account (who cares?)

2) If anyone is pulling strings it's Dannflor. I also townread Dannflor initially but now I'm worried that mafia could create a mafia UTR quite easily since there are 5 of them, and am slightly paranoid that's happening here. Leaning town on Dannflor though.

3 Explain why you wanted to know whether I thought it was you/Loki or you TMIing Loki as town. How does that help you if you're town?

I'm just repeating what I said. Ok

Initially dropped a lazy TR on Loki.
Then decided to turn it into SR instead. I didn't post it. Busy elsewhere.
You latched onto my post and I thought you saw an opportunity to paint me scummy cause I was being waffly on your teammate

Whattttttttt

You weren't being 'waffly'. I'll say it again. 'Great tone' showed a mafia POV in that you want to 'have a good tone' like it's something you fake. That was my insight. I'm coming round to a straight-up townread on Loki now, recent posting seems like they're trying to solve with not much to go on which is commendable. I'm struggling to see your thought process here and in my head the possibility of you being town is just going down.

[furtiveglance]

I’m not anyone’s teammate and that will become super obvious if I live long enough.

Fair

Have time to think about whatever you are going to suggest.

Just saw Furtive's post and see now he's talking about the 'Great tone' part after earlier talking about the 'either way'
Might simply not remember why he even scumread me, but it doesn't make me less suspicious of him.

It was always the 'great tone', not the 'either way', I wasn't on you for being undecided.

Talking about this so much makes me feel like we're almost reading too much into it, let's create some new meaningless content to read too much into.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Roden

Is this sus

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Roden

Is this sus

Any explanation?

[furtiveglance]

I have figured you out Loki, it is part of why I unvoted

I have reasons for being this confident on Roden but it's not something I'm keen to explain until Roden comes back into the thread

Pretty sure you already showed your hand on that one, in 248.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Roden

Is this sus

Any explanation?

Pressure is useful for determining alignment

Is there a player you wouldn't vote for pressure or do you just not care?

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Roden

Is this sus

Any explanation?

Pressure is useful for determining alignment

Is there a player you wouldn't vote for pressure or do you just not care?

I wouldn't pressure anyone I'm townreading or someone who is unlikely to be sortable via pressure

I think you know I meant specific players in this game.

[furtiveglance]

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

[furtiveglance]

I think you know I meant specific players in this game.

The answer would be the same.

No townreads then, or players who wouldn't reveal their alignment after a few votes.

[furtiveglance]

I generally prefer to do things rather than not do things

Do you think giving me less to read you will make me town/null you?

It doesn't, you just go in the 'could be mafia' group.

[furtiveglance]

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

I read that game and I think it was mostly the PR claim rather than anything else.

[furtiveglance]

I generally prefer to do things rather than not do things

Do you think giving me less to read you will make me town/null you?

It doesn't, you just go in the 'could be mafia' group.

cool

[furtiveglance]

I'm sorry I don't really care what people read me as.

it might be a character flaw

Do you care about getting voted out, or losing? Why do you play?

I play for fun, and I like surviving and winning, it hurts to get voted out and lose.

[furtiveglance]

Bell will you ever get past pleasantries?

[furtiveglance]

I have finished catching up with the game.

I am not voting

GuiltyLion

today. His posts struck me as the most towny so far, and it is honestly rare for any mafia to put in so much effort into sorting early in the game. In-depth analysis is usually town-indicative. (242) The entrance post rang as quite genuine too. (26)

I played with

fireisredsir

before. I would write him off as town for tone and intent solely, but I am not as confident of the towniness of this slot as I am of

GuiltyLion

. My gut tells me that when he rolls mafia, he is a deepwolf. His playing style changed since our last game together too, he's far more laid-back and chill. My experience with him, however, does confirm that he is player who really likes making reads over meta. He mentioned this in this game (86), which is a plus for honesty and self-awareness. I don't think this is a good candidate for a Day 1 elimination either.

Dannflor

seems towny, but for some reason absolutely none of his posts stayed in my mind while reading the thread, and I re-discovered them only by looking at the playerlist. His scumreads seem reasonable and justified (but not sure if they're right). So yeah, he can stay, I guess.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
(people to potentially vote out today, and that also includes anyone I haven't mentioned in this post and who is in this game)

furtiveglance

seems much less serious about this game than he was in Newbie 2095. Still, I remember him getting more heavily invested as Day 1 was coming to an end and I pushed him off the hill. But yeah, re-reading his posts so far, I cannot townclear him so far in any way.

I am not sure why

Roden

is a leading wagon considering he has barely said anything. If it's a pressure wagon then fine. But he hasn't said much.

I don't like

Radical Rat

in this game at all. The coded messages are a nice touch and fit into the theme, but it's also a way for a mafia to hide under the spotlight and get written off as witty town. Make no mistake, this a potential deepwolf.

Vivax

seems less witty than usual.

VOTE: Radical Rat

Witty = town then apparently.

[furtiveglance]

ok let's say I am wrong about you.

who would you like to kill and why?

VOTE: Furtive

Furtive just misrep'd my play in a past game to justify his scum read on me. What makes it egregious is that we already had a conversation about this game before and doesn't have an excuse for suddenly not remembering the game correctly now.

How long has everyone been playing? Outta curiosity

I used to play a lot but it’s probably been about ~3 years since I did last. My home website went the way of the dodo sadly

A little over a year, but the last time I played in the newbie queue was back in September.

Did I see you fakeclaim Tracker in a game?

I did actually, in Newbie 2070.

Postgame got a bit heated in that one, LOL.

A bit yeah haha, it was a rough spot for town.

He also misread me really badly that game and mindlessly tunneled me. Scum reading me this game before I really do much of anything shows a lack of reassessment or even any caution in making the same mistake again.

I was just chatting about the game in which you fakeclaimed Tracker, it's not why I scumread you.

[furtiveglance]

ok let's say I am wrong about you.

who would you like to kill and why?

VOTE: Furtive

Furtive just misrep'd my play in a past game to justify his scum read on me. What makes it egregious is that we already had a conversation about this game before and doesn't have an excuse for suddenly not remembering the game correctly now.

How long has everyone been playing? Outta curiosity

I used to play a lot but it’s probably been about ~3 years since I did last. My home website went the way of the dodo sadly

A little over a year, but the last time I played in the newbie queue was back in September.

Did I see you fakeclaim Tracker in a game?

I did actually, in Newbie 2070.

Postgame got a bit heated in that one, LOL.

A bit yeah haha, it was a rough spot for town.

He also misread me really badly that game and mindlessly tunneled me. Scum reading me this game before I really do much of anything shows a lack of reassessment or even any caution in making the same mistake again.

I was just chatting about the game in which you fakeclaimed Tracker, it's not why I scumread you.

Didn't claim that was your reason, I said you're trying to justify your scum read.

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

I read that game and I think it was mostly the PR claim rather than anything else.

Unless I'm just wildly off base here, this reads as you downplaying how I played as scum in that game to better fit the narrative for why I'm getting scum read this game.

No, and I don't follow that argument. I said why I scumread you: filler logs which looked pockety.

[furtiveglance]

i think furtive can be town for being funny

he wasn't very funny as scum

maybe more that he seems relaxed here

Fine, I'll look into that. Though tbf even if I put

furtiveglance

in my PoE, deep down I think it would be wiser to eliminate a more obvious scum today.

Really weird comment. I don't agree with RR being 'obvious scum'.

[furtiveglance]

I'd say right now I townread Dannflor, Loki, Fire and GuiltyLion.

Bell could go either way, I can definitely see them as scum but that doesn't fit their interactions with my other scumreads so could depend on flips.

RR hasn't done enough to be town but I find Greeting's push on them more sus than they are.

Aristeia could be town but I'm leaning towards mafia.

Greeting, Vivax, and Roden seem like mafia.

I don't have a read on KittyTacky or kuti plz yet.

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler:

Still don't understand what you mean by pocket either.

Bell: I sometimes feel like I play adjacent to some players (kinda irrelevant comment)
You: Yeah I totally get that.

You're not townreading Bell, but you're kind of affirming them. See what I mean?

[furtiveglance]

I'd say right now I townread Dannflor, Loki, Fire and GuiltyLion.

Bell could go either way, I can definitely see them as scum but that doesn't fit their interactions with my other scumreads so could depend on flips.

RR hasn't done enough to be town but I find Greeting's push on them more sus than they are.

Aristeia could be town but I'm leaning towards mafia.

Greeting, Vivax, and Roden seem like mafia.

I don't have a read on KittyTacky or kuti plz yet.

I agree with this because I didn’t like his Roden progression. First he insists Roden is town for pretty much no reason, then he suddenly jumps on him at e2, to get towncred when Roden flims scum. Now both are voting likely town!Kitty, which makes sense since he’s defending me + easy miselimbait. Scum wants me gone for pretty much the same reason they did in Chromavalon. They know I will eventually catch them all and they’re running scared.

1) Who are you talking about?
2) Mafia are voting someone who is defending you so they can then vote you? Why don't they just vote you now? I feel like your ego/paranoia is driving your gamesolve, I do townread you but this isn't a great way to think about the game.

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler:

Still don't understand what you mean by pocket either.

Bell: I sometimes feel like I play adjacent to some players (kinda irrelevant comment)
You: Yeah I totally get that.

You're not townreading Bell, but you're kind of affirming them. See what I mean?

No...? How the fuck does someone get pocketed by saying "I get that"?

It's just a subtly positive reaction to their waffling which has no other bearing on the game.

[furtiveglance]

I'm also gonna oppose the Roden vote now, I don't townread Roden per se but I am kind of getting Town/Town vibes.

[furtiveglance]

I'm becoming increasingly confident on Greeting, and Vivax hasn't really changed my mind, but I think I'll move my vote in the interests of momentum.

Greeting is playing, quite literally, like a robot.

VOTE: Greeting

[furtiveglance]

I was never voting Roden, I was voting Vivax.

[furtiveglance]

Vivax seems less witty than usual.

Nothing to say on the actual substance of Vivax's posts?

There's not much of it. The thing with

Vivax

is he likes to troll around. In this game he seems to be more invested and defensive, which I think for him is a bad sign.

Do I?
I believed I had many faces in games. That's the point of playing it isn't it?

This reminds me, Greeting shading Vivax without showing a desire to vote them makes me happy with both as scumreads.

[furtiveglance]

Wow. I just came back. The current push on me is so utterly horrible that I'm not sure if I even want to address it. I play like a robot, scumread someone for tone from a scumread page and try to read the thread carefully to err my mistakes?

I bet my ass there is scum on it. There's five of them after all.

I guess I understand them though. Eliminating a mafia today would mean that town only needs two points to win, and that puts them in a horrible position. So they'd rather put their necks out for LHF like me, because then they'll just manipulate the pairings with low posters.

Not going to waste my time arguing with this shit push, let's get to work.

actually I also just noticed that this:

I consciously decided to ignore his pre-existing 4 posts when I joined the game.

is dissonant from this:

I am not sure why Roden is a leading wagon considering he has barely said anything. If it's a pressure wagon then fine. But he hasn't said much.

if you consciously ignored his posts, why did you feel the need to say you're not sure why he's a wagon? like I get possibly wanting to cut Roden some early game slack and not join the wagon, but you actually defended him here moreso than just ignore the situation. and if you were truly like "I'm not going to try to read anything into his posts at all", then you definitely should not have been questioning a wagon on him

You have just said that every justification I said in this game feels fake to you. If that's the case, then there is no point in me wasting my time talking to you. Feel free to vote me.

For the record, I think

GuiltyLion

is town. But I'm not fighting battles I can't win.

Come back if you actually want to talk, game solve and discuss, rather then find arguments to support a pre-existing thesis.

these posts are massive overreactions to reasonable points made and i don't think there's any real reason town greeting should be so dismissive of GL here

GL is like one of the most reasonable people on site and i think it is always a good idea to talk to him and try to work through his reads and get him on the right track if he's wrongfully scumreading you

nothing that greeting is saying here makes sense as a reaction to what is happening imo, just feels like extremely fake indignation to try to match the self-righteousness that town greeting often has

You're calling GL 'reasonable'.......you're sure he's town then?

[furtiveglance]

You're calling GL 'reasonable'.......you're sure he's town then?

im ok with treating him as town for now, but no, im not sure

but my read isn't relevant here, from greeting's stated perspective, he thinks GL is town, so i don't think there's any reason for him to not want to work together. my point in calling GL reasonable is that there are some people where i think it would be understandable to not want to try to work with them in that situation. GL is not one of those people

Ok that makes sense. Remind me why you're on Kitty? I haven't really seen anything to read into from them.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Greeting

Didn't check if it's hammer

It was E-1.

[furtiveglance]

I don't want today to end so early. I want to spend more time sorting Kitty, Kuti plz, RR, and Bell.

UNVOTE: Greeting

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Greeting

2 others unvoted so this is fine, I still want a bit of pressure.

[furtiveglance]

Chainsaw cause of vote on fireisred (association cue)?
Dannflor and Ari instantly voting this. Very good play from them and likely both town.

? ari voted before furtive

I wasn't implying that the order mattered.
But maybe you are for a good reason.

the order matters for that thought to make any sense

why is it good play and likely town for ari to vote furtive there if the only thing he has posted prior to her vote is "Human subject gang?"

I stand by human subject gang btw. Not changing gangs anytime soon.

[furtiveglance]

The three votes on me are all OMGUS. Seems about right.

[furtiveglance]

Ari, Dann, Loki are mafia on an incomplete reread.

Roden, Furtive maybe town from page 8 behaviour.

Fireisred is peculiar.

The first two I kinda get, don't really agree with Dannflor. I don't know where you got Loki being mafia from. They seem very town, their entire gameview is based on mafia trying to get them out. I don't think scum would play like that nor have I ever seen it.

[furtiveglance]

Ari, Dann, Loki are mafia on an incomplete reread.

Roden, Furtive maybe town from page 8 behaviour.

Fireisred is peculiar.

The first two I kinda get, don't really agree with Dannflor. I don't know where you got Loki being mafia from. They seem very town, their entire gameview is based on mafia trying to get them out. I don't think scum would play like that nor have I ever seen it.

Hey there.
You never get tired of pulling off that fake shit?

Never.

I love doing fake shit, like calling someone town and then calling them fake 2 posts later.

[furtiveglance]

I want to vote Fire.

Vote Fire then. Free country.

[furtiveglance]

Dear God, this whole "I don't get scumread" thing is insufferable.
I don't think it's necessarily scummy, because the same thing happened somewhat in Terminator, but it IS obnoxious and makes the game way harder to follow for anyone else.


Anyway,
VOTE: Greeting
Ignoring the actual substance of posts in favor of superficial "tells" is probably as scummy as it's gonna get D1.

Did a reread of the whole game so far, yeah I can sheep this.
VOTE: Greeting

Seems a bit "checked who the other wagon was, yeah I can self pres." unless you give some reasons why you're voting Greeting.

[furtiveglance]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

[furtiveglance]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

I'm fairly certain this would count as lying about IRL circumstances, which is against site rules.

That said, he didn't say it only happens as Town and never as scum, which definitely would be approaching Trust Tell category, so I'm not saying we report them for flipping red or anything. Just that we should take it as good faith for now.

This is what I mean - if your IRL circumstances are your self-towncase, and it's against site rules to lie about IRL circumstances, it feels like a loophole. Lying is part of the game anyway, I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to lie about IRL stuff. IRL stuff should never be relevant anyway.

[furtiveglance]

Ok chill with the caps.

[furtiveglance]

I do scumread Vivax. I feel like they're aspiring to be weird town but aren't getting that authenticity.

[furtiveglance]

Seeing as the wheels are coming off the Greeting wagon, and my read there has changed as well, I'll move my vote back to its previous home.

VOTE: Vivax

[furtiveglance]

oh is it

this?

[furtiveglance]

One thing to note is that regular VCA isn't as useful with 5/13 being mafia. So if Vivax flips mafia it doesn't clear the competing wagons in the same way.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: DannFlor

Interested into seeing what Loki thinks of a wagon on Dannflor.
It's not on Loki, so it can't be that bad.

You know this Dannflor vote isn't gonna happen, they're widely townread. Why aren't you being more realistic about surviving?

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: DannFlor

Interested into seeing what Loki thinks of a wagon on Dannflor.
It's not on Loki, so it can't be that bad.

You know this Dannflor vote isn't gonna happen, they're widely townread. Why aren't you being more realistic about surviving?

That's a mafia priority. My priority is finding the correct elimination.
If I get yeeted, I haven't been read correctly, and neither was the mafia.

Why isn't KittyTacky the correct elimination?

[furtiveglance]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

I'm fairly certain this would count as lying about IRL circumstances, which is against site rules.

That said, he didn't say it only happens as Town and never as scum, which definitely would be approaching Trust Tell category, so I'm not saying we report them for flipping red or anything. Just that we should take it as good faith for now.

This is what I mean - if your IRL circumstances are your self-towncase, and it's against site rules to lie about IRL circumstances, it feels like a loophole. Lying is part of the game anyway, I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to lie about IRL stuff. IRL stuff should never be relevant anyway.

This post bothered me when I was reading earlier. Besides the soft accusation that Greeting is faking/lying about having a condition, these posts are trying to frame it like he's using it as an excuse to avoid getting scum read when it seems really clear that he isn't doing that at all. He's explaining his behavior and asking people to keep that in mind when trying to read him, but he never claims that it's town indicative for him when certain behavior patterns get triggered. At most, he says he's more controlled as scum and less self-conscious as town, which are like...

really

basic tells for anyone. He doesn't even say he's guaranteed to act a certain way as either alignment, just that he puts in effort to do so.

Obviously mods get final say but I don't see any loopholes here, Greeting can be telling the truth and still be scum.

I'm gonna drop this now, but safe to say my opinion is that people shouldn't bring IRL circumstances into a social deduction game, especially if some people think lying about IRL circumstances is wrong (or against site rules apparently). Because the chain of logic is 1) my IRL circumstances are making me play weirdly/scummily, 2) I can't lie about this according to the rules, 3) I am therefore town. That's just how I see it.

[furtiveglance]

I'm not saying Greeting is lying by the way, I believe them, but it feels like they've done something mafia can't really replicate.

[furtiveglance]

I've got time for this now. One of the posts I will treasure I suppose. Got work ahead of me.
Let's see.

Aristeia chose not to respond, could have been a nerve with areflexy, that usually indicates someone is unable to generate within the central nervous system or on the transmission route. A rider without a horse . A mafia who is frozen on the spot?
What I instead got was a reflex from furtiveglance. The reflex shows spasticity, that indicates damage that leads to central impulses being misdirected or generated incorrectly. A horse without a rider. A townie who likes to wildly kick?

I'll be slightly embarrassed if I remembered this incorrectly.
But maybe you'll understand why I prefer to not get engaged by FG here. That's not productive.

And what I got from you was a throwaway vote on a semi-UTR instead of on the counterwagon to you. You need to explain why you're not voting KittyTacky, it would be the first thing to come to mind if I was in your position.

[furtiveglance]

Vivax is mafia for me, and that kind of "yeah I guess I'll vote KittyTacky, if you guys INSIST", seemed very mafia. I just don't know whether it's a scum/scum interaction or not. In isolation KittyTacky is definitely sus, but could go either way.

[furtiveglance]

669 is a decent scumcase and probably my favourite of Vivax's content all game. Which makes me lean towards scum/scum, plus I was already leaning that way earlier after that weird vote on Dannflor.

[furtiveglance]

Bell's simpler, if he's posting then he's town, if not then he's scum. I see this get said every game he's in and I haven't seen it proven wrong yet. His activity has been somewhere in the middle this game so far though, so he's just a town lean.

I would kinda expect Bell to post more than he has so far tbh

in Shakespeare he posted a lot as scum and won the game off it

Town!Bell has real genuine thoughts. Scum!Bell is just wooden and just posts word salads.

Bell has done nothing that constitutes 'good townposting' for me so far. Firmly in the scumpool for me.

[furtiveglance]

Bell's simpler, if he's posting then he's town, if not then he's scum. I see this get said every game he's in and I haven't seen it proven wrong yet. His activity has been somewhere in the middle this game so far though, so he's just a town lean.

I would kinda expect Bell to post more than he has so far tbh

in Shakespeare he posted a lot as scum and won the game off it

Town!Bell has real genuine thoughts. Scum!Bell is just wooden and just posts word salads.

Bell has done nothing that constitutes 'good townposting' for me so far. Firmly in the scumpool for me.

Conversely, I was impressed by Fireisredsir's 643 - it showed a town pov and it fits with their gameplay so far.

[furtiveglance]

I think Radical Rat is pocketing Loki Dokie. I sus them.

[furtiveglance]

I think Radical Rat is pocketing Loki Dokie. I sus them.

Thanks for looking town
Not a corner I expected mafia to shine a light into

Actually, looking back it's more like Loki sheeped RR a couple of times. So I'll take that comment back.

[furtiveglance]

I do sus Radical Rat. It's just that they're leading quite hard on Vivax and it doesn't feel like bussing.

[furtiveglance]

I honestly think

furtiveglance

reacted the way he did in 570, 581 and 654, because he is scum. A real townie has

no reason

to be annoyed about what happened. The most logical thing to do for a town-aligned player is to accept it and look elsewhere. And that's what almost everyone did. Or, if one still thinks that I'm scum, look into my ISO and build a better, more convincing case.

Furtiveglance

did not want to let it go.

This is my best read for Day 1. It's unfortunate that it surfaced like this and I honestly feel bad that it surfaced this way, but it looks like hard proof to me. I feel like if I choose any other player or build any other case it will still be a second-best choice.

This is one for post game I suspect. No doubt you feel attacked, but I didn't accuse you of lying about IRL circumstances or breaking rules or anything, I just questioned whether that kind of thing should ever be game relevant. As of now you're in my townpile, I unvoted you, I said I was dropping it, and you're saying I didn't want to let it go.

[furtiveglance]

Kuti PLZ!!

[furtiveglance]

Kuti PLZ!!

While I'm catching up can you give me your takes on the wagons

KittyTacky is definitely in my scumpool, but I'm hearing from Loki and others who I TR that they can play like this as town.

Vivax is probably my top pick to be mafia after this D1, they just seem to be doing a scumtell speedrun, but I also have this gut feeling that Bell will flip red (or rather won't flip).

I think those are the only 2 wagons which are likely to succeed.

[furtiveglance]

Kuti PLZ!!

While I'm catching up can you give me your takes on the wagons

KittyTacky is definitely in my scumpool, but I'm hearing from Loki and others who I TR that they can play like this as town.

Vivax is probably my top pick to be mafia after this D1, they just seem to be doing a scumtell speedrun, but I also have this gut feeling that Bell will flip red (or rather won't flip).

I think those are the only 2 wagons which are likely to succeed.

Maybe other wagons can succeed, but those are the main ones.

[furtiveglance]

gut feel that all of the leading wagons are not good directions tbh

Disagree with this. But I like the vote on Bell.

[furtiveglance]

could be vivax, idk this is a small thing but i really liked his last two posts

I do sus Radical Rat. It's just that they're leading quite hard on Vivax and it doesn't feel like bussing.

Both of these are true. I am pushing hard on Vivax,

and it isn't bussing

. That's because I'm convinced he's scum, and want to see the thread run red with Mafia blood... Or uh. CPU coolant fluid, I suppose.

lol
you sound like a mafia who's putting this (bolded) in for comedy value to themselves

VOTE: RadicalRat

meh

ok hear me out

to me that "meh" speaks volumes

it feels pure and honest. a reflection of true thought process. no interest in actually explaining that process for the sake of performance and yet it shines through anyway like a beacon of towniness. it's kinda self-doubt, it kinda undermines his own vote, it's kinda saying "maybe that's not a great reason but i want to vote here anyway"

and if vivax is scum his goal generally seems to be to just throw random thoughts into the thread for the sake of confusing everyone and making people think he's too scattered and random to be scum. so idk why scum with that strategy would suddenly go for the strategy of coming up with a thought trajectory to have but hiding it behind a single "meh"

i too have difficulty understanding how a lot of the thoughts that he's having are genuinely coming from a town brain. but this one feels real (or, i guess it's possible that they are actually scum together and that's why this "meh" hides more thought than it shows. that would be funny). and i think in the past personally i have found that "difficult to understand how town could think like this" is not a reliable scumtell

I read it the opposite, it's like scum faking calmness. I've always scumread 'meh' and that whole 'shrug' attitude.

[furtiveglance]

If KittyTacky is scum here then I would suspect they are being actively sacrificed by scum.

I agree with the general idea implied here and in fire's recent posts that scum have a huge role in choosing today's elimination and so if we hit scum then likely there will be scum pushing it by design, but my vague game sense is that Vivax is a scum-chosen wagon moreso than Kitty, Kitty stalled out fairly quickly and to me it felt like Vivax has had more momentum throughout

I get the sense this was just a gamestate read but I'd be curious who think may be specifically scum sacrificing scum!Kitty in that world

Who is scum on Vivax then? I TR Loki and you said you did too, so that leaves RR and Kuti.

[furtiveglance]

I think Loki, Greeting, GuiltyLion, Fire and Roden are 5 of 7 other town.

KittyTacky, Kuti plz, Aristeia, Dannflor, Radical Rat probably has 2 town (or 3 if I townread a mafia).

Bell and Vivax are both mafia.

[furtiveglance]

I think Loki, Greeting, GuiltyLion, Fire and Roden are 5 of 7 other town.

KittyTacky, Kuti plz, Aristeia, Dannflor, Radical Rat probably has 2 town (or 3 if I townread a mafia).

Bell and Vivax are both mafia.

What does everyone else think?

Or do you not want to say?

[furtiveglance]

I'd rather vote Bell than KT but I want Bell to check in first, voting out someone who isn't here always feels a bit wrong

[furtiveglance]

also this is going to sound somewhat egotistic and possibly rub people the wrong way but my hit rate on day1 wagons is 70%[7/10 completed games where I am voting for the day 1 eliminated player, that player has flipped mafia.]



I can be a bit of a petulant child at times but it is generally because I am usually right.

[furtiveglance]

I don't think my reads are changing again today.

[furtiveglance]

Hey.

[furtiveglance]

I'm realising how much WIFOM there is in this game. My initial thought was that Dannflor is the mafia because they were more TRed than kuti plz.

[furtiveglance]

i think the simplest thing tho is that if dann was maf they would want him to stay alive to influence things

i don't even think getting a possible point out of it is worth that loss

That's an interesting point. I could maybe see Dannflor being mafia if you or GuiltyLion was also mafia then, so they still have some thread influence.

[furtiveglance]

The flavour is pretty dark btw, we have to smoke an unconscious person with a gun!

[furtiveglance]

its ok as long as we shoot the robot. they're not people

This is a good test, see who takes offence.

[furtiveglance]

Feels like this pick is aimed at me for this post

Spoiler:

We are currently in rvs so nothing is pinging me as awkward or stiff in an uncomfortable mafia way yet.

How do I share photos

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

I'm going to be honest none of these posts or the bolded questions inside of them really feel like genuine thoughts to me. Or rather, they are very surface level questions pushed out so that you have something to say

I'm not really getting the sense you actually want the answers to any of these questions nor that you hope some productivity will spark out of them. I might be being unfair if this is a strategy you've relied on in the past but the first one especially pings me because it strikes me as highly unlikely that anyone would be able to get reasonable value out of trawling through past games of a bunch of players they are unfamiliar with

as the very first step

to getting to know them. It seems like a way to seem productive but actually avoid having to prod people about this game. Instead it would seem more natural to me if you were prodding people about this game.

granted, you are doing that too... sorta. but "how to post photos" and the "is this going to be a game long gimmick" are both questions that like don't really require an answer, or I'm not sure what value you're hoping to gain by posting them in thread

i also find the part of the fireisred's post that you latched onto like the least interesting part because it seems clearly jokey

Yes we are in RVS and you claim nothing has been pinging you as off - but that means I expect your following questions to be trying to prod people that you think are off or just trying to get people out of their comfort zone, but I feel like I'm seeing more just posts to fill space

pedit:

it is very possible your playstyle is more fluffy here and I am misreading you based off that. how would you describe how you're trying to play this early game?

Probably one of the posts you could successfully deduce Dannflor was mafia from. When you project so much rationality into an emotional and posty player like Kuti, you probably have bad intentions while floofing up an ineffective way of looking at an alignment.
That tone though, impressive.

Mafia tailored this test for you, did they? How kind

[furtiveglance]

I don't think Fireisredsir really said this, just kind of hinted at it, but I was thinking about mafia just using the test to kill off a UTR. And it's definitely not worth it for mafia. Besides, if they did, Loki or GL were the more obvious choices. Mafia definitely think they can win this one.

[furtiveglance]

Yeah if Dann is mafia from that ISO I'll eat a hat

Sounds like you're ready to vote!

[furtiveglance]

Dann is a very strong player irrespective of alignment. I doubt very much scum would kill him here unless he’s town.

We obviously shouldn’t rush this but Dann might have possibly been killed for his reads and scum is probably fine with sacrificing Kuti to get rid of him.

Not 100% wedded to this but I think if scum wanted to wifom us with this, they probably leave scum!Dann for later.

Killed for his reads....you're saying Bell smoked Dannflor.

[furtiveglance]

Dann is a very strong player irrespective of alignment. I doubt very much scum would kill him here unless he’s town.

We obviously shouldn’t rush this but Dann might have possibly been killed for his reads and scum is probably fine with sacrificing Kuti to get rid of him.

Not 100% wedded to this but I think if scum wanted to wifom us with this, they probably leave scum!Dann for later.

Killed for his reads....you're saying Bell smoked Dannflor.

Not to brag but I was about to give Dannflor a lecture, but then the day ended. Anyway your reads aren't getting any better with age, like wine.

We'll see about my reads. I've never really understood the defence of calling your detractors stupid, it also comes from mafia more often than town in my experience, so you aren't helping yourself.

[furtiveglance]

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

[furtiveglance]

I think the main thing GL picked up on with fire that appealed to me was that they seemed to have a post-hoc justification for a read that didn't come off to me as an entirely natural train of though. Rather, it felt like it could have been someone searching for a reason to support that read. The whole logical error part of the argument is less enticing to me. Town make logical errors in their thinking all the time, it's more the feeling that it wasn't a natural train of thought for fire that lead me to like GL's argument.

I'll chicken out and say fire is still a pretty mixed read. They strike me as a good player and while the stuff GL is putting pressure on has me suspicious I think I need a much larger volume of content from them to develop a better read.

Meanwhile, Roden's pop-in was lacking a lot to be desired. It took the form of that cookie-cutter scum pop-in that I tend towards a lot when I have a red PM.
1.

place a vote down on an easy to push townie

2. throw out a read for content
3. make one more post about anything to appear natural

more votes here

Roden is right about one thing, It’s extremely hard to miselim me. And most players who pocket me usually wind up to be players who initially jumped on me for silly reasons because it’s so difficult to tell the difference between actual town who changed their mind and scum doing the same thing. Of course Kitty was obviously an exception.

I thought you were mislim bait and that was your whole paranoid shtick this game.....probably doesn't matter but yeah

[furtiveglance]

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

Anyway, follow up to this is I'd know who I'd rather vote with, regardless of who we're actually voting.

[furtiveglance]

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

I don't think I was at the exact reads I am now when I first read this, but have we overlooked Town!Kuti plz being killed for their reads?

[furtiveglance]

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

I don't think I was at the exact reads I am now when I first read this, but have we overlooked Town!Kuti plz being killed for their reads?

I just get genuine vibes from this looking back - townreading KittyTacky in particular when there was a lot of pressure on them, and there's scumreading Dann/Ari which weren't mainstream opinions.

[furtiveglance]

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

Anyway, follow up to this is I'd know who I'd rather vote with, regardless of who we're actually voting.

This actually does concern me as well. Unfortunately, I have concerns on both sides, and those concerns aren't likely to be alleviated until I get to see how Dann and kuti flip.

What are your concerns and who with?

Vivax is the obvious one. It worries me greatly that my top scumread from D1 has arrived at the same conclusion, but with so many scum it seems a bit farfetched that BOTH leading wagons were on scum. Plus if kuti IS scum it actually makes Vivax look significantly better.

And then I also have a growing paranoia that GL could be deepwolfing here, but that isn't really substantiated by anything yet. I just find it very strange that no one has really expressed suspicion on him. Like, you'd think at least one or two scum would be trying to sow doubt on a true obvtown. And then if Dannflor flips green.... Not a great look.


But without flips I can't really draw proper conclusions here. Kitty's flip is... Spectacularly uninformative, which is why there may have been merit to scum sacrificing him. This pair is going to be much juicier though

About GL, sometimes mafia decide to leave a UTR uncontested because pushing them looks bad. I don't think reads in general matter as much for this game, and I'm realising my earlier comment about voting with townreads is probably not the right way to play. It doesn't matter who among the living is town as long as I vote correctly each day.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Dannflor

[furtiveglance]

I think even if we get this one wrong, we're still in a good position, I'm happy with my current townreads so to challenge us mafia have to pick from a quite limited pool of players.

[furtiveglance]

Hi, I'm still alive.

[furtiveglance]

Ask me anything.

[furtiveglance]

Anything

?

Can you think of all the things (from people to experiences) that can potentially lie to you in this game?

Yeah, big one is the other players. My own brain could lie to me, if I read into the wrong things. Nothing else really comes to mind. I'm guessing you have a more extensive list.

[furtiveglance]

like imagining worst cases here

say dann is maf. we vote for kuti. okay, oops. we're 1-1 now, but maf lost a strong player who was widely townread. like... okay? im not too sad about that trade

say kuti is maf. we vote out dann. um, oops. now we're 1-1, maf was able to sneak a player out who hadn't done much, and also get rid of a strong town player who was widely townread, and did not get at all punished for that

I get this, but I don't really agree, I'm always just gonna take a punt on who I think it is.

[furtiveglance]

like imagining worst cases here

say dann is maf. we vote for kuti. okay, oops. we're 1-1 now, but maf lost a strong player who was widely townread. like... okay? im not too sad about that trade

say kuti is maf. we vote out dann. um, oops. now we're 1-1, maf was able to sneak a player out who hadn't done much, and also get rid of a strong town player who was widely townread, and did not get at all punished for that

I get this, but I don't really agree, I'm always just gonna take a punt on who I think it is.

I just realised I disagree more fundamentally - I don't think Dannflor was the 'stronger player', or even playing better in this game. They had some thread influence but when you compare the two players' ISOs, they were both making reads and being somewhat active.

[furtiveglance]

like imagining worst cases here

say dann is maf. we vote for kuti. okay, oops. we're 1-1 now, but maf lost a strong player who was widely townread. like... okay? im not too sad about that trade

say kuti is maf. we vote out dann. um, oops. now we're 1-1, maf was able to sneak a player out who hadn't done much, and also get rid of a strong town player who was widely townread, and did not get at all punished for that

I get this, but I don't really agree, I'm always just gonna take a punt on who I think it is.

yea i mean i also just think it's kuti. im not gonna vote kuti if i don't think it's kuti

thats more an argument for why i don't really have much interest in wifoming myself into voting dann

Yeah I see that. Do you think scum!Kuti calls Kitty town right as Kitty is about to flip? For some reason that's my biggest reason for thinking Kuti is town.

[furtiveglance]

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

This is the post I'm on about. Fire is right about the timing of the vote. Even so, I townread this post.

[furtiveglance]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

[furtiveglance]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

[furtiveglance]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

How are RR and Vivax ever buddies when RR tried really hard to ram his wagon through? That’s well beyond distancing.

I didn't say buddies, I said one or the other.

[furtiveglance]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

And here I was thinking we might get along this game...

In all seriousness though, I don't really understand this accusation. If I were just trying to align myself with certain players, by which I can only assume you mean Loki since we've agreed on things a few times, why did it take so long to convince me on Dann being scum, to the point where even as I started to see it as a possibility it took Vulture showing up and scumclaiming to actually seal the deal? Why do I get nervous about GL instead of trying to rope him into my nefarious fake townbloc?

Idk, and it doesn't matter too much either, let's just vote on the flips and go from there. It's not like I can vote you out.

[furtiveglance]

Vulture/RR/furtive + 1 of fire/loki, but won't get that far. Leaning fire generally because Loki puts himself more out there and fire keeps their head low, but it could be a bad reason.

Aristeia eligible for tinfoil scenarios but more unlikely right now

Posting this for legacy reasons. It's just wacko crap you can enjoy after a taco wrap

I think you gave me one too many pardners here pardner

[furtiveglance]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

I realised there's a fourth mafia, probably Aristeia or Fire idk.

[furtiveglance]

Am I allowed to be 'confused', or is that *sus*?

[furtiveglance]

Am I allowed to be 'confused', or is that *sus*?

I think she was referring to the points. We already have 1 point from the Kitty yeet and only need 2 more. So if she’s hypothetically right on both Dann and Bell and both get voted, than the game would in fact be over in that case.

We only need to correctly solve 3/5 scums to win this.

I was actually talking about me, whether or not being confused is sus.

I'm just struggling to find a 3rd alive mafia. Let's say it's Bell/RR for instance, that implies Vivax is town. Then you have to find a mafia in Ari/Fire/GL/You/Vulture - I'd probably guess Fire, but that solve doesn't seem right. I'm considering Bell/RR/Vivax, with some bussing D1.

[furtiveglance]

Forgot about Roden ^^, haven't seen Roden in a bit.

[furtiveglance]

At its core, in this game I just need to find and roast an impostor

The roasting is optional.

[furtiveglance]

It seems like most of us have made our minds up one way or another.

[furtiveglance]

Time to lock it in, I want to see the flips and go again.

[furtiveglance]

Dann mafia btw, I don't think the current gamestate or votes points to kuti mafia.

[furtiveglance]

Dann mafia btw, I don't think the current gamestate or votes points to kuti mafia.

Explain? Who is your PoE and why is my argument not good?

What's your argument? That Dannflor beats some other players? How can you even predict that, I think there would be some heated debates either way.

My POE is basically you/GL/Ari as town with primary suspicion on Bell and RR I guess.

[furtiveglance]

Dann mafia btw, I don't think the current gamestate or votes points to kuti mafia.

Explain? Who is your PoE and why is my argument not good?

What's your argument? That Dannflor beats some other players? How can you even predict that, I think there would be some heated debates either way.

My POE is basically you/GL/Ari as town with primary suspicion on Bell and RR I guess.

I agree with your town core. I also think you’re town and probably fire as well. And regardless of Dann’s alignment, Vivax looks like town from his “disgusting” comment. So my argument is, assuming Kuti is scum here, who amongst your srs would be the most likely to beat town!Dann?

Maybe someone like Vivax because they have that weird associative. What are you getting at?

[furtiveglance]

Dann mafia btw, I don't think the current gamestate or votes points to kuti mafia.

Explain? Who is your PoE and why is my argument not good?

What's your argument? That Dannflor beats some other players? How can you even predict that, I think there would be some heated debates either way.

My POE is basically you/GL/Ari as town with primary suspicion on Bell and RR I guess.

I agree with your town core. I also think you’re town and probably fire as well. And regardless of Dann’s alignment, Vivax looks like town from his “disgusting” comment. So my argument is, assuming Kuti is scum here, who amongst your srs would be the most likely to beat town!Dann?

Maybe someone like Vivax because they have that weird associative. What are you getting at?

I think it’s pretty clear isn’t it? I don’t think any of Vulture, RR, Roden likely be Dann in a d2 test - obviously assuming I have the correct PoE here and Dann is town of course.

My argument is that if my PoE is correct, then it likely points to Dann!town/Kuti!scum because I don’t think any of those 3 beat Dann here.

Do you disagree?

I disagree yeah, Idk who I'd vote in Dann/Vulture or RR or Roden if we hadn't got this test, it's hard to imagine. I'm just looking at kuti's ISO and it looks pretty innocent.

[furtiveglance]

He's not saying you're currently doing that.

He's saying you initially started out doing that so if all of the vocal town leaders are leaning one way, it's fine for the entire scum team to go the bus route because they won't actually influence the wagon direction.

This is a good point but I'm not too worried, even if we go 1/1 I think it's pretty hard for mafia to give us a tough choice.

[furtiveglance]

I voted wrong twice and died oof

[furtiveglance]

I really liked the setup, one of the most tense and fun to play for sure. Balance-wise, I think it's fine.