LOST (Game Over)

[butterflies]

9 Cephrir (ProfessorDrapion, JohnnyFarrar, Taly, Off the Hook, T-Bone, Lukewarm, PookyTheMagicalBear, Rad, Dancing Puppets)
8 Taly (Dunnstral, Cephrir, Frogsterking, Klick, MalcolmTucker, RCEnigma, Roden, Bell)

What 180 on Taly?

I thought you flipped your read on them, if I misunderstood you, please feel free to correct me on that.

I have no read

My top theory is she is scum but that’s a theory

back it up with a vote im tired of this fencesitting

And this.

[butterflies]

Nothing wrong with that sweet Malcolm wagon that has 2 town on it right now

Lol, this isn’t an auction. You do much better to link some town and scumgames.

[Rad]

Town game:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=89529

Scum game (replaced in after day 1):

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=89584

My only completed games since 2014. Older games are off site.

If you wanna read them, you should notice how in my town game I waste my town points for random bs ideas and in my scum game I pocket furtive and dare not pressure him <3

[butterflies]

On a brief skim, the basic difference that I could seei is that you expressed a lot of passion for your trs in your towngame, something completely absent from your scumgame. I don’t really think I’ve seen you do that here. You also seem to use more emojis like as scum, like you were networking or trying to ingratiate yourself with others. I almost sometimes get the impression that you try to use your exceedingly abundant charm to get people to tr you, where as you don’t really seem to care about that as much as town.

[Rad]

On a brief skim, the basic difference that I could seei is that you expressed a lot of passion for your trs in your towngame, something completely absent from your scumgame. I don’t really think I’ve seen you do that here. You also seem to use more emojis like as scum, like you were networking or trying to ingratiate yourself with others. I almost sometimes get the impression that you try to use your exceedingly abundant charm to get people to tr you, where as you don’t really seem to care about that as much as town.

If I've lost some passion, that's probably me being jaded from being pocketed by BBT and defending him all game in my first newbie lol.

I think I've been super open about my reads in this game though? Recently I've pushed BBT and CSF as strong town reads based on their interactions with my wagon in previous day. I'm not going to jump on a bomb for them like you have done for your strong town reads but that's because I lack confidence in my reads. I've also pushed a strong town read on RCE due to him being incredibly more solvey in this game than my scum game with him where he just lurked and jumped out here and there when needed.

I've had you Nancy at the top of my list most of the game. Glance though my thoughts on my newbie town game about Whiskey. He was my highest town read in that game (so high I openly sheeped him letting him decide who to target) and I spell out how I would have turned on him if he wasn't the NK. I had the same type of paranoia about you this game where I'm worried I'm totally misreading as hard town.

[Rad]

The smiley point is an interesting catch but NAI I came into the first game not really knowing how much I should use the smileys here. is just what I tended to use a shitton back in the day on my old site. It's my favorite and I will use it all the time now <3 Also I loved BB's use of early game lol. I don't think my use of smileys is a scum/town tell at all lol but it's a neat catch

[Nancy Drew 39]

So that’s a problem then, how am I supposed to differentiate between town!paranoia and and noncommittal scum?

How are you supposed to be able to tell the difference? I tend to tr players with conviction moreso in their trs because townblocking is much easier than scumhunting. I know that there are detractors who will argue the converse that scum can easily make trs except they usually don’t do that too much unless they’re literally the kind of scum that will bus their entire team.

Scum always wants to be able to pivot on trs and often have some type of loophole to make a change in reads easier. It’s extremely difficult for scum to fake that kind of passion and conviction.

So to me, an excessive amount of especially back and forth paranoia on too many people - right or wrong - reads scummy to me. \_0_/

[butterflies]

So that’s a problem then, how am I supposed to differentiate between town!paranoia and and noncommittal scum?

How are you supposed to be able to tell the difference? I tend to tr players with conviction moreso in their trs because townblocking is much easier than scumhunting. I know that there are detractors who will argue the converse that scum can easily make trs except they usually don’t do that too much unless they’re literally the kind of scum that will bus their entire team.

Scum always wants to be able to pivot on trs and often have some type of loophole to make a change in reads easier. It’s extremely difficult for scum to fake that kind of passion and conviction.

So to me, an excessive amount of especially back and forth paranoia on too many people - right or wrong - reads scummy to me. \_0_/

[butterflies]

The smiley point is an interesting catch but NAI I came into the first game not really knowing how much I should use the smileys here. is just what I tended to use a shitton back in the day on my old site. It's my favorite and I will use it all the time now <3 Also I loved BB's use of early game lol. I don't think my use of smileys is a scum/town tell at all lol but it's a neat catch

Well, I can only go by the two games you linked and you used those emojis a lot more in the scumgame.

[Rad]

So that’s a problem then, how am I supposed to differentiate between town!paranoia and and noncommittal scum?

How are you supposed to be able to tell the difference? I tend to tr players with conviction moreso in their trs because townblocking is much easier than scumhunting. I know that there are detractors who will argue the converse that scum can easily make trs except they usually don’t do that too much unless they’re literally the kind of scum that will bus their entire team.

Scum always wants to be able to pivot on trs and often have some type of loophole to make a change in reads easier. It’s extremely difficult for scum to fake that kind of passion and conviction.

So to me, an excessive amount of especially back and forth paranoia on too many people - right or wrong - reads scummy to me. \_0_/

It's an interesting point for sure. On one hand as scum you want to leave your options open to be able to shift wagons easily, yeah? On the other hand, town reads are just easier to explain as scum. So if you lock into your town reads too hard then shifting when you need is problematic.

Which approach is more ideal probably shifts as skill increases, I'd imagine.

This is a game with a ton of people and the paranoia is just kinda overwhelming for me here. People I'm paranoid about:

You (Nancy)
Pooky
Drap
BB
Luke (rip, sorry luke, resolved now of course)
Masons
BBT (left over paranoia from both my newbie game and a separate game I read of his where I had him as my top town)
Ceph (early game when he was giving advice, again that's now resolved)

People I think I have solid actual reads on:

CSF
RCE (now Furtive)
BBT (still paranoid though)

Everyone else is just a normal read with no significant paranoia.

[Rad]

To clarify something, CSF / RCE / BBT are my strong town reads with actual substance backing them. Like I noticed specific things that made a ton of sense to put them into the town category, rather than just reading their tone or gut reads or emotion reads which are probably less significant in terms of actually figuring out town from scum, but that I rely on for reading in general.

[Rad]

The smiley point is an interesting catch but NAI I came into the first game not really knowing how much I should use the smileys here. is just what I tended to use a shitton back in the day on my old site. It's my favorite and I will use it all the time now <3 Also I loved BB's use of early game lol. I don't think my use of smileys is a scum/town tell at all lol but it's a neat catch

Well, I can only go by the two games you linked and you used those emojis a lot more in the scumgame.

Yeah yeah don't get me wrong, I think that's an interesting catch from you. And it's probably accurate. But I think it's NAI because in my first game (town) I wasn't super comfortable with how I wanted to post here so I likely avoided using smileys too much until I felt more comfortable. It's a personal self-conscious sort of thing rather than an alignment thing.

[ProfessorDrapion]

Nothing wrong with that sweet Malcolm wagon that has 2 town on it right now

Meh.
I’m personally not sure about CSF.

[ProfessorDrapion]

Remind me again why Taly is town?

Sorry - now Yeet is scum. Forgot about that switch.

No, that slot is locktown from Toog’s 2nd post and Math/Taly interactions during the gladiate. I will hard veto any attempts to (no pun intended) ever yeet that slot.

You still think Best Bird is likely town?
I think they are likely wolf?

I’d expect Luke to have lots to say about Malcolm and some stuff to say about me.

[Rad]

Nothing wrong with that sweet Malcolm wagon that has 2 town on it right now

Meh.
I’m personally not sure about CSF.

CSF's interaction with my wagon yesterday has me convinced. But even if you read me town, it was probably one of those "had to be there" timing sort of things. Like not everyone who jumps off my wagon or defends me is town but the timing was pretty damn convincing for me.

[ProfessorDrapion]

VOTE: Malcolm

[Rad]

Further, CSF's continuing to push a Malcolm wagon over me. So like... why does scum!CSF do that when town!Rad's so easy and justifiable here?

[butterflies]

So that’s a problem then, how am I supposed to differentiate between town!paranoia and and noncommittal scum?

How are you supposed to be able to tell the difference? I tend to tr players with conviction moreso in their trs because townblocking is much easier than scumhunting. I know that there are detractors who will argue the converse that scum can easily make trs except they usually don’t do that too much unless they’re literally the kind of scum that will bus their entire team.

Scum always wants to be able to pivot on trs and often have some type of loophole to make a change in reads easier. It’s extremely difficult for scum to fake that kind of passion and conviction.

So to me, an excessive amount of especially back and forth paranoia on too many people - right or wrong - reads scummy to me. \_0_/

It's an interesting point for sure. On one hand as scum you want to leave your options open to be able to shift wagons easily, yeah? On the other hand, town reads are just easier to explain as scum. So if you lock into your town reads too hard then shifting when you need is problematic.

Which approach is more ideal probably shifts as skill increases, I'd imagine.

This is a game with a ton of people and the paranoia is just kinda overwhelming for me here. People I'm paranoid about:

You (Nancy)
Pooky
Drap
BB
Luke (rip, sorry luke, resolved now of course)
Masons
BBT (left over paranoia from both my newbie game and a separate game I read of his where I had him as my top town)
Ceph (early game when he was giving advice, again that's now resolved)

People I think I have solid actual reads on:

CSF
RCE (now Furtive)
BBT (still paranoid though)

Everyone else is just a normal read with no significant paranoia.

I honestly don’t see how anyone reading my posts during the gladiate can possibly be paranoid on me. I had a near fucking meltdown over a possible Taly gladiate. There’s just no way in hell, I could ever fake that as scum. And when Titus told me that she’d rather vote out a tr than no lim, I told her that I didn’t think I could play anymore if she voted Taly over my extremely strenuous objections.

[Rad]

I honestly don’t see how anyone reading my posts during the gladiate can possibly be paranoid on me. I had a near fucking meltdown over a possible Taly gladiate. There’s just no way in hell, I could ever fake that as scum. And when Titus told me that she’d rather vote out a tr than no lim, I told her that I didn’t think I could play anymore if she voted Taly over my extremely strenuous objections.

This game isn't within my scum range either. I know that, and you know you're playing outside your scum range. Seems natural to distrust each other in a game of deception?

I'll take your word if you take mine.

[Rad]

Further, paranoia isn't logic based. Like I can't step outside during a heavy story with lightning. I just won't do it unless I absolutely have to. Am I going to get murdered by lightning? Highly unlikely. I understand that. Does that make me less paranoid that I'm going to? Nope. Fuck storms.

[butterflies]

I honestly don’t see how anyone reading my posts during the gladiate can possibly be paranoid on me. I had a near fucking meltdown over a possible Taly gladiate. There’s just no way in hell, I could ever fake that as scum. And when Titus told me that she’d rather vote out a tr than no lim, I told her that I didn’t think I could play anymore if she voted Taly over my extremely strenuous objections.

This game isn't within my scum range either. I know that, and you know you're playing outside your scum range. Seems natural to distrust each other in a game of deception?

I'll take your word if you take mine.

It doesn’t work like that, you can’t bargain out trs. And it isn’t my word, it’s all right there in those posts to anyone bothering to reread them.

I don’t know if you are or aren’t. You showed me two games and those games didn’t do anything to change ly mind. If they’re not a good representation, than link some others?

[butterflies]

Further, paranoia isn't logic based. Like I can't step outside during a heavy story with lightning. I just won't do it unless I absolutely have to. Am I going to get murdered by lightning? Highly unlikely. I understand that. Does that make me less paranoid that I'm going to? Nope. Fuck storms.

Well despite me being extremely emotional, I am actually both a logic and gut-based player when it comes to reads. I also rely a fair bit on meta, which is something that I obviously don’t have with you but imo, BBT’s doc claim explained away a lot of the reasons I had previously been sr him for because it made sense because of the claim.

I use both my intuition and logic to make reads but I’m pretty bad at explaining exactly how I do it.

[Rad]

I honestly don’t see how anyone reading my posts during the gladiate can possibly be paranoid on me. I had a near fucking meltdown over a possible Taly gladiate. There’s just no way in hell, I could ever fake that as scum. And when Titus told me that she’d rather vote out a tr than no lim, I told her that I didn’t think I could play anymore if she voted Taly over my extremely strenuous objections.

This game isn't within my scum range either. I know that, and you know you're playing outside your scum range. Seems natural to distrust each other in a game of deception?

I'll take your word if you take mine.

It doesn’t work like that, you can’t bargain out trs. And it isn’t my word, it’s all right there in those posts to anyone bothering to reread them.

I don’t know if you are or aren’t. You showed me two games and those games didn’t do anything to change ly mind. If they’re not a good representation, than link some others?

I don't have any other completed games aside from off-site games from 2014.

It's ok. I get that I'm not in the position of power here. Just thought we could reach an understanding but it's all good and I don't blame you.

If I get hammered over night please wait to close the day until I can comment! Going to try to get some sleep now.

[Rad]

Further, paranoia isn't logic based. Like I can't step outside during a heavy story with lightning. I just won't do it unless I absolutely have to. Am I going to get murdered by lightning? Highly unlikely. I understand that. Does that make me less paranoid that I'm going to? Nope. Fuck storms.

Well despite me being extremely emotional, I am actually both a logic and gut-based player when it comes to reads. I also rely a fair bit on meta, which is something that I obviously don’t have with you but imo, BBT’s doc claim explained away a lot of the reasons I had previously been sr him for because it made sense because of the claim.

I use both my intuition and logic to make reads but I’m pretty bad at explaining exactly how I do it.

I hear you. I have a hard time explaining how I get my reads too. I did a lot of cases in my newbie town game because that's how we used to play the game. Cases cases cases. Back in the day it was very aggressive and very case heavy. I did a case here for scum corwin but haven't really bothered since. It's tiring as fuck and I just don't enjoy it anymore. Also the isos are just unreadable for most players at this stage. I read your entire iso when it was at something like 460 posts plus parts of 3 other games and my eyes and brain were dead after.

[Rad]

People I have meta dived for this game (off the top of my head):

Nancy - 3 games
Luke - 1 game
BBT - 2 games
Roden - 1 or 2 games I think
Mala - 2 games I think
Drap - 1 game

I think that's it unless I'm misremembering. Zzz sleep damnit