Newbie 696 - Nitoville, Orange Ward - Game over

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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:42 am

Post by Incognito »

Vote Count #4 of Day 1


mcskullchick (1) <-~ VP Baltar
Senel (2) <-~ mcskullchick, Telic
Razage (1) <-~ ZazieR

Not Voting (5) <-~ Razage, Senel, raider8169, Kmd4390, Jayne

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch!
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:56 am

Post by Razage »

ZazieR wrote: Raz: My vote should be obvious enough what I think of him. I'm also having some problems with the fact that he names 4 players as Somewhat Suspicious, but he has only mentioned one of them directly. The other three were mentioned in his list, in which all three of them are Somewhat Suspicious as they haven't posted much content. I can agree with Skullchick, but the other two have almost as much content as you.
Well my list is a bit more comprehensive then yours in that it allows for partial suspicion without going to vote and FOS.

I also don't like that some of your reasons for suspicion simply boil down to "Didn't vote." Are you in a hurry for the day to end? If so, why? If not, then why is refraining from a vote automatically suspicious?
raider8169 wrote: @ZazieR, is your last post your only reasons for voting Raz? In a game this size I find it odd to have 4 suspects because that is everyone but 2 people. I dont think it is vote worthy but I am not here to tell you how to vote.
As said above, mine allows for more depth because this is a game of gray areas and it's not as simple as black and white until the lynch reveal. That's about the only way I can explain it.

And also still nothing from mcskullchick.

Vote: mcskullchick


To get it removed, please post a summary of all the players and your opinions on them.
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:57 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Well, everyone has been listing thoughts on players, and I don't have much of a read on anyone yet, so I'll re-read everyone and post thoughts. Sorry if this gets really long because it might. Ok, going alphabetically (convenient with the "Display posts from previous" button at the bottom), Jayne is first.

Jayne


Random votes mcskullchick (MCS from now on. It's easier) before anyone else. Not scummy unless MCS flips scum.

The FoS on Senel was ok because I agreed with that point. Senel put MCS at L-2 twice. That puts us in position for lynching too early. But here's what I don't like about that post. Your vote on MCS was random. It was based on her username. Senel does something that you think is scummy, and you FoS. Why not vote at that point? Senel wasn't in any danger of being lynched (yet) and you didn't have a case on MCS. I think you should have voted Senel there. You come back a few posts later saying that it's just an FoS, not a vote, and you tell Senel to "Chill out". It almost looks like you want to avoid looking suspicious of Senel without looking like you are ignoring him. Or you want your vote to stay on MCS for some reason.
Jayne wrote:I didn't say you were or weren't inexperienced. We're all inexperienced (discluding the ICs) I'm just finding you really suspicious at the moment,
but if I let off on Skulls, she might get away.
This is interesting. Look at the bolded part. At this point, your vote on MCS is random. You haven't said anything about her actually being scummy at the time you make this post. Did you have suspicions on MCS that you hadn't mentioned? Again, I feel like you were more suspicious of Senel than MCS, but never changed your vote. Are you afraid of looking wishy washy if you change votes?

In your last post, you finally unvote and say that we are out of the RVS. Why did it take so long to remove the vote? Who do you find suspicious now? Senel or someone else?

My overall read is still pretty neutral on you. I see some things that look scummy, but nothing too bad yet. Nothing extremely townie from you yet.

Next up, MCS. This will probably be pretty short.

McSkullChick

First post is an I'm here. People voted for me. K, bye.
Second post is Senel is clumsy, here's my vote, here's a Senel quote.

Some advice for you: If you see something scummy in a post, just quoting it doesn't guarantee that we will see what is scummy about it. It helps you explain a little bit. Usually, votes have some kind of explanation and a case too.

Now, my read on you. People see you as scummy. I'm not completely sure why. You look more like a new player without much time to keep up with a fast pace game than scum. Basically, I'm not convinced that your wagon is any good. Actually, ANYONE WHO THINKS MCSKULLCHICK IS SCUMMY, CAN WE GET A CASE PLEASE? Because I'm not seeing it.

Raider8169


Well, you are another IC, Raider fan, and in Upstate NY, so you can't possibly be scum. NEXT! Just kidding. Seriously though...

Random vote on Senel. Not scummy unless Senel flips scum. Oh, and since I've said that twice now, for the new players, sometimes, scum random vote their buddies in order to distance themselves. I'm not saying you can go back to random votes and find all the scum every time, but if you think there is a connection between someone, and then go back to random votes, you may find that you are right.

Pointed out L-2 on first page. Very townie/IC thing to do. Scum want to look protown too though, so it's kind of null.

Asked Senel about that 3rd vote. Again, good play and good way to help get the game started.

Your early posts are ICish. Helpful for newer players, but not giving much of an opinion. I realize I did the same thing though.

Your last post is the only one I can really see anything on. I disagree about the lists. (As you can see). It's a good way for everyone to show their stance on everyone. It also helps us to have something to discuss. I often have a few suspects in games, but you only get one vote. If you focus on one player, that's some pretty bad tunnel vision. You need to be looking at everyone so nobody (cough...ZazieR....cough cough) goes under the radar and wins it for the scum because Nameless voted for a mason and I had to vote him because we already lost if he was town. [/rant about an old game]

Anyway, I'd like to see some more input from you about the game specifically. Who do you think is scum? Why? Why aren't you voting them now? Why haven't you placed a serious vote yet?

Razage


Razage wrote:Well it's good things have got started.

I'm not going to cast any votes until some more discussion has taken place. Voting responsibly is crucial.
It's helpful to try to get things going instead of waiting for someone else to do it. Posts like these are often seen as scummy because laying back and letting everyone else do things is a good way for scum to avoid suspicion. What exactly did you mean by voting responsibly?

You put up a post that shows small suspicions on Senel...

You show us your stance on everyone. It's good to know where you stand. You list 4 players as suspicious though, and no vote. Why?

Tip: Make sure you aren't simply thinking experienced players are town and newer players are scum. You don't really have anyone as town, but your least suspicious are under "uncertain". The list includes both ICs, ZazieR, and VP who seems to have some experience from the way he posts. Remember that the more experienced a player is, the better they will play and the better they play, the harder they are to catch when they are scum.

So, my read on you is slightly scum. You haven't voted yet. You've shown 4 suspicions. That puts you in position to vote for anyone who a wagon starts to build against.

Senel

We've discussed the L-2 votes plenty. They were suspicious because they can lead to an early lynch. I don't feel like I need to elaborate on that anymore.

The second time you put MCS at L-2, you don't seem very sure of yourself. You seem to be trying to make yourself look good more than thinking she is scummy.

When VP asks you about MCS, you say that you think she is scummy because she had only posted once. You say she is either bored or scum. Maybe she is just busy and having a hard time keeping up. That's entirely possible too. Day 1 lurker lynches aren't usually the best option.

Your list looks genuine.

My honest read on you is new player who made a mistake, saw a lot of pressure for it, and got defensive. I've seen similar situations several times, and it usually comes from town. So yes, surprisingly enough, I am leaning town on Senel.

Telic

I've already said why I don't like the comment about Day 1 being random. That's not true at all, but it seems that in every game, someone says it.

I didn't like the MCS or Senel is scum comment either. Your reasoning was that there is a back and forth, which could easily be two townies who think they've caught scum. The only time I really say the lynch is between two players is in a larger game where pretty much everyone is voting 2 players, or in a game where a deadline is close and it would be hard to start a new wagon. Try looking at more players than just MCS and Senel.

Also, you vote Senel with Raz's reasoning. Try not to use what other people say too much. It could be scum trying to mislead you. I made this mistake in my first game. I voted because a case looked good. Turns out the case was made by scum. Luckily, we didn't lynch the person I had voted for.

Again, I get more new player from you than anything. I don't see anything overly scummy.

VP Baltar

Questioned Senel about the L-2 vote early. Nothing wrong with that.

Lurker pressure vote on Telic. Again, nothing wrong there.

The questions to new players. I liked that because it got people posting. It's probably a big reason why we have such a fast pace game right now.

You ask a lot of questions. Looks pretty good.

I have to ask this. Your vote on Telic seemed like you were trying to get a lurker to post more. You ask lurkers to post, and then in the same post, you unvote Telic. Why?

Ok, you voted MCS and with reasoning. I agree that she should tell us why Senel is suspicious.

Upon reread, you look very protown. New players, keep in mind, protown doesn't mean definite town. Often times, late in the game, it's protown players that I want to look closer at.

ZazieR

The only person in this game who I have played with before.

You did a good job of replacing in and giving your opinions. You only have 2 posts so far, 2 very long posts, but still. It isn't much that I can get a real read off of yet.

Overall


I see Raz as somewhat suspicious for the suspicions on 4 players. I don't think it's a huge deal though. I'm keeping close watch on, but not necessarily suspicious of Jayne, VP, and ZazieR. But, the person who I want to see more input from is Raider. He's posting plenty, but not adding much as far as suspicions. Because of this, I will...

Vote Raider
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:58 am

Post by Senel »

ZazieR wrote:
Senel wrote:Now, we probably aren't both scum, because we have been voting for eachother at every turn, no scumly relationship there. I think in the town's best interest is to lynch one of us to find out who the other is.
Senel, if it's for the best interest for town to lynch one of the two, then why aren't you voting Skullchick?
FoS Senel
I'm waiting for more information from her. When she answers our questions, it may affect my decision if she is scum or not.
ZazieR wrote:
Senel wrote:Zaz came into the game questioning everybody, but didn't reveal much about
Her
self.
So it's scummy to wait for the answers before giving your opinion?
No, it's scummy to answer other players questions with more questions. :wink: I'm not asking for your opinions, I'm just asking you to talk to us a bit. :wink:
ZazieR wrote:
Senel wrote:I believed she was scum.
Again, why not a vote?
Again, see above.
Senel wrote:If I went on the bandwagon, and Chick isn't scum, it would be the town's best interest to vote me off.
Well, let me think about it...ok, I guess anyone on that bandwagon would be suspicious, which would be useless in the longrun of the game. You got me there, I really should think before I type.
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:58 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Raz, do you know that MCS is at L-2 after your vote?
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:26 am

Post by Incognito »

Telic has requested replacement. I'm looking.
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:26 am

Post by ZazieR »

Raider wrote:@ZazieR, is your last post your only reasons for voting Raz? In a game this size I find it odd to have 4 suspects because that is everyone but 2 people. I dont think it is vote worthy but I am not here to tell you how to vote.
My main reason for voting him is the quote of Raz at the top of my previous post.

@post 98
That's sweet :)
Raz wrote:I also don't like that some of your reasons for suspicion simply boil down to "Didn't vote." Are you in a hurry for the day to end? If so, why? If not, then why is refraining from a vote automatically suspicious?
The only ones where I said something about the not voting were Jayne and Senel. May I not wonder why they aren't voting when they have said this:
Jayne wrote:And I only press on about you because you're really my only valid suspect.
Senel wrote:Chick: You guys all know I think she's scum.
I'm not in a hurry. That's just blatant misrep. I want to know why they don't vote, while they said those things from the quotes. Besides, I also gave other reasons than that. And there's a reason why I find not voting scummy in this game, namely (this is an example quote):
KMD wrote:Raz, do you know that MCS is at L-2 after your vote?
Everyone who puts someone at L-2 is apparently going to be questioned by KMD. Which means you'll put attention towards you. However, if you truely believe someone is scummy as town, this shouldn't matter to you.
KMD wrote:The list includes both ICs, ZazieR, and VP who seems to have some experience from the way he posts. Remember that the more experienced a player is, the better they will play and the better they play, the harder they are to catch when they are scum.
This is quite interesting.
KMD wrote:You did a good job of replacing in and giving your opinions.
Thanks :D.
Senel wrote:No, it's scummy to answer other players questions with more questions.;)
I have no idea what you're saying here :oops:
Senel wrote:I'm not asking for your opinions, I'm just asking you to talk to us a bit.
Hi, how are you doing? ;)

*Back to being serious*

Raz, do you even know why I'm voting you? You don't talk about it at all.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:30 am

Post by Incognito »

Meji Fan replaces in for Telic effective immediately. Thanks, Meji Fan!
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patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:33 am

Post by ZazieR »

Meji, you here? What a surprise :D
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:36 am

Post by Razage »

Kmd4390 wrote:Raz, do you know that MCS is at L-2 after your vote?
Is this vote tally right above my vote incorrect?
Incognito wrote: Vote Count #4 of Day 1

mcskullchick (1) <-~ VP Baltar
Senel (2) <-~ mcskullchick, Telic
Razage (1) <-~ ZazieR

Not Voting (5) <-~ Razage, Senel, raider8169, Kmd4390, Jayne

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch!
Says MC has 1 vote, which would make it L-3. If I voted Senel then he would be at L-2.
ZazieR wrote: Raz, do you even know why I'm voting you? You don't talk about it at all.
It was after my response to your question. Apparently you see something in that response. No explanation was given in that line. Further down the post you said mentioned the same thing that others have expressed concern over, which is that by listing four people as "Somewhat suspicious." I've set myself up to bandwagon on one of them at the earliest opportunity. I don't see it that way and I can change the way I present the list if that'll make everyone feel more comfortable. I'm sure everyone else is ranking people the same way. You yourself had 3 people listed rather then the preferred two and in what could be a higher suspicion then the title of mine.

Anyway, if you want to discuss my answer that you quoted, we can. Otherwise leave your vote stand as I cannot speak to whatever observation you have divined if it's hidden from me.
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:56 am

Post by Razage »

EBWOP:

Forgot about this:
Kmd4390 wrote: Tip: Make sure you aren't simply thinking experienced players are town and newer players are scum. You don't really have anyone as town, but your least suspicious are under "uncertain". The list includes both ICs, ZazieR, and VP who seems to have some experience from the way he posts. Remember that the more experienced a player is, the better they will play and the better they play, the harder they are to catch when they are scum.
Noted, it is possible I'm falling for a clever ruse in that regard. Although keep in mind on my ranked list, uncertain and somewhat suspicious are pretty close together and all the names are right up there. I've got my vote on the person I need to see more info from. There's just not too much to go on right now.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:24 am

Post by Meji Fan »

Hello World!
Meji, you here? What a surprise
Yeah, Im stalking you, spooky!

Ive done one quick read through, but nothing leapt out at me, so let me do another one for you
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:24 am

Post by Meji Fan »

EBWOP How do I put the name of the person Im quoting above the quote in black?
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:03 am

Post by Meji Fan »

unvote
Senel isnt my favorite person now, after the new read through. Though one thing about Senel that seems worth noting is that Senel commented he "Sorry, was busy. and I was just voting quickly, first name I saw" on why he voted her, but, in the post where he voted her "Meh, I got an early vote", which kinda implies he read through and should have noticed votes

Oh, as a note, in game Zazie and I were in, "I vote Chick. Chick is Scum. I'm safe" scenario occured, much to the towns dismay (granted, my grand incompetence also resulted in much dismay)

Jayne though, Jayne is my new favorite person, Id like to see some more explanation on why Jayne is still voting on mcskullchick

And so,
Vote: Jayne
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:17 am

Post by Senel »

Wait, your favorite person is who your voting for? I am a little confused, but to answer your post.

It's a completely valid statement. I saw her name on the list and as went down to make my quick post, I saw my name. Your name would stand out if it was in bold, wouldn't it?
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:29 am

Post by raider8169 »

Razage wrote:There's just not too much to go on right now.
This early I completely agree with this. At this point of the game I like to get a feel for everyone. I do not look deep into posts and just talk. After I get a scum sign I think look at the person in isolation to and start looking more in depth.
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:31 am

Post by Meji Fan »

Well, favorite choice for scummish person at the moment
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:37 am

Post by raider8169 »

Meji Fan wrote:Well, favorite choice for scummish person at the moment
Just got home and need to get some homework done. I hope to have an answer for this today though.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:54 am

Post by Meji Fan »

I was replying to Senel not asking you actually
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:35 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

Kmd4390 wrote:I have to ask this. Your vote on Telic seemed like you were trying to get a lurker to post more. You ask lurkers to post, and then in the same post, you unvote Telic. Why?
While Telic had not posted
alot
when I unvoted her, it seemed to me like she was at least making one post a day (though somewhat insignificant in content). I was much more concerned with the lurking of mcskullchick, especially after she popped up just once for some quick accusations of Senel. Speaking of which
mod
can we get a prod of mcskullchick if she doesn't post soon?

Additionally, it seemed like we were moving out of the random voting stage with some of the questions that were being asked, so I didn't feel it was fair to leave a mostly reasonless vote on Telic.
ZazieR wrote:
Kmd4390 wrote:The list includes both ICs, ZazieR, and VP who seems to have some experience from the way he posts. Remember that the more experienced a player is, the better they will play and the better they play, the harder they are to catch when they are scum.
This is quite interesting.
Two things about this. Zazie, what exactly is interesting about this to you?
Kmd, I wouldn't necessarily call myself experienced at the game of mafia. In fact, this is the first game I've ever played online or in real life. I've read a few games on the forums here to get a feel,however, so that probably accounts for me being a bit more aware of the posting customs and such. Also, my job in the meatworld is being a journalist.....so I have sort of trained my eye to pick up bullshit and ask lots of questions (work with enough politicians and you'd get where I'm coming from :) ).

I do agree with you however, Kmd, that we newbies can't forget to look at the ICs. Keep in mind that with the introduction of Meji Fan we now appear to have 5 noobs and 4 (at least) semi-experienced players. Odds would be in the favor that one from each group is scum. That being said, I would say that all four of you are pretty equal on my suspicion list (well, can't really say too much about Meji right now). I think raider and Kmd have a fairly equal ratio of scumhunting-IC'ing posts. Other than Kmd's last comprehensive list post, haven't seen too intensive of scumhunting from either.

ZazieR has definitely made a full on effort since coming into this game, which as Kmd pointed out with a hint-hint wink-wink has allowed her to skate under the radar a bit. Still getting a good vibe inspite of this, but definitely not beyond suspicion.

Ok, I'll leave it at that for now because I need to do a reread and parse some words to come up with a good post full of questions for tonight.

Signing off for now.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:59 pm

Post by mcskullchick »

I jump on Sene, and you people start fishing me. I would think before you act. You might be making a big mistake. Your voting for the wrong people.

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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:34 pm

Post by Senel »

Really, that's all your posting? I jumped when I saw that you posted, thought "FINALLY, some feedback!" but no. MSC, the more you don't supply your claims, the more some people are going to suspect you. All your saying is, "Hi!" or "I think Senel is scum and getting clumsy." or your latest, "Your voting for the wrong people."

Defend your case. To tell you the truth, I'd be less supsicious if you never posted. But you continue posting "Don't vote for me," or "Stop fishing me," posts. Prove us wrong! If you really want us of believe your not scum, explain your case! I'm sorry if I'm sounding emotional, but it's ridiculous. If you don't want to be a suspect, give us a strong case.
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:39 pm

Post by raider8169 »

Saying you are voting for the wrong people is something scum would say all the same. Tell us why you are not scum. Provide a case on why you think Senel is scum. Posting just tid bits is not going to help you out and it will not help us out because we have nothing to go off from to think you are town.
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I lost a bet.
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:53 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

Razage wrote: Says MC has 1 vote, which would make it L-3. If I voted Senel then he would be at L-2.
You're right. My bad.
Meji Fan wrote:EBWOP How do I put the name of the person Im quoting above the quote in black?
After the word quote put ="Person's Name" and put it all in brackets.
raider8169 wrote: This early I completely agree with this. At this point of the game I like to get a feel for everyone. I do not look deep into posts and just talk. After I get a scum sign I think look at the person in isolation to and start looking more in depth.
So you want to sit back and let everyone else scumhunt?
VP Baltar wrote:
Kmd, I wouldn't necessarily call myself experienced at the game of mafia. In fact, this is the first game I've ever played online or in real life. I've read a few games on the forums here to get a feel,however, so that probably accounts for me being a bit more aware of the posting customs and such. Also, my job in the meatworld is being a journalist.....so I have sort of trained my eye to pick up bullshit and ask lots of questions (work with enough politicians and you'd get where I'm coming from :) ).
You came off as knowing what you are doing. I guess you can take that as a compliment then :lol: . Oh, and off topic a little, but I'll be a Sports Journalist some day.
VP Baltar wrote: Other than Kmd's last comprehensive list post, haven't seen too intensive of scumhunting from either.
That's why I made that post. I didn't really have much of a read on anyone, so I reread everyone individually.
KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:00 pm

Post by Razage »

mcskullchick wrote:I jump on Sene, and you people start fishing me. I would think before you act. You might be making a big mistake. Your voting for the wrong people.
Really?
Really?
That's what you think this is about?

I mean, Senel actually said it all pretty much. I want to know first why you're "Jumping" on Senel. Is it because he voted for you?

Second, I want to know what your thoughts on everyone else is, because there's so very little from you at this point.

Let me put it this way, you want us to think before we act? Give us something to think about.

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