Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Something_Smart]

I mean, it could be that scum-Roden was trying to push your wagon as an alternative to his own. But my wagon wouldn't factor in at all, because it sprung up out of nowhere in response to a misunderstanding.

[Vivax]

You‘re right. I apologize. But artificial tone describes it to me, or lacking passion.
Guess I got triggered by being told that I got bombarded with numbers for its own sake

I wasn't offended by it, but maybe that's because I've seen a lot of impressive stuff done by AI

Still isn't especially helpful though-- I can talk about more random gut feelings I'm having, but that seems like it would be massively distracting and not help anyone read me at all.

Yeah I liked reading the lamda interview. Very interesting.
I guess tendentially right-hemisphericals like me have issues with having to adopt a left-hemisphericals way of communicating, and we tend to get drawn to gloomy stuff.
At least you should have a more optimistic way of looking at things if that‘s a correct assessment.

Chaos vs. order lol

[mastina]

To be clear, mastina:

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

This is the primary reason I think Luke can't be scum.
I'd love to see a convincing perspective on why Luke actively decides to make this post as scum. Because otherwise, I agree that he's a pretty simple choice for PoE.

As scum, Lukewarm would know the total faction numbers.
As scum, Lukewarm would be pretending to scumhunt.
As scum, Lukewarm would see this post by Ircher and think that his town self would see it.
As scum, Lukewarm figured it'd be worth bringing up, and that Ircher wouldn't necessarily be hard-condemned for it.
As scum, Lukewarm thought the interaction was natural-looking and would be an organic way to have interactions with Ircher.
As scum, Lukewarm had to pivot away from this organic interaction plan when momentum built on Ircher and Ircher wasn't able to dissuade it in time.

The interaction doesn't look like town finding a smoking gun.
The interaction looks like scum interacting with scum in the hopes of making both parties look more town from the exchange.
Which didn't end up happening, mind you--but Lukewarm as scum wouldn't have known what that interaction would trigger from the town.

Keep in mind, that post was literally on page 2.

Lukewarm as scum would expect discussion of faction size/info to be mech-talk taking place in the RVS stage of the game. For Ircher to provide his thoughts, where he would explain his comment, and then the town to chime in with their thoughts, and so on and so forth, where ultimately it was decided to be nai or maybe even town for Ircher. That is what it looks like was the plan. He saw something as scum that could be a scumslip, but figured his town self would see it and that engaging in the conversation would be harmless.

Then it turned out to be a big deal. Lukewarm wouldn't have known that a page one post by Ircher that he pointed out on page two would be a big problem for the scum.

[mastina]

Mastina would you be interested in making a deal with me that benefits you twofold?

I mean maybe but honestly unlikely.

I'm pretty sure on my Roden scumread so I really don't see myself moving off of him.

But if it's not a request to vote elsewhere today then sure.

[mastina]

Mastina, I'm struggling to think of how this could be the case. I would say don't worry about sharing your argument, if Ircher's setup speculation was real then there are only 3 mafia left, I don't think scum fakeclaiming in future is a massive problem.

Why catch only two scum fakeclaiming when you can catch three or four by not revealing how they're fucking up their fakeclaims?

[mastina]

I am hoping she has an extremely good reason for doing so

Oh, I do!

If I got seen by a Tracker or Watcher it's a better play for town to just say I targeted someone who died than to let a town PR potentially out themself with a false guilty

If you got seen by a tracker or watcher, it's also better play for scum to claim before they are outted by a

real

guilty, too.

Just sayin'.

[furtiveglance]

Mastina, I'm struggling to think of how this could be the case. I would say don't worry about sharing your argument, if Ircher's setup speculation was real then there are only 3 mafia left, I don't think scum fakeclaiming in future is a massive problem.

Why catch only two scum fakeclaiming when you can catch three or four by not revealing how they're fucking up their fakeclaims?

Not all scum have to fakeclaim

[furtiveglance]

I like wagon momentum, but I was unsure when I voted S_S, and I'm still unsure. I'm having second thoughts

[furtiveglance]

Andresmvb

Spoiler:

Andres is clean. 1049 is a pretty town post, but just check the ISO and you'll see plenty of town posting. Progression on Ydrasse and whiplash after Vivax claim looks natural (recalibrating reads etc). I will be truly wowed if Andres is mafia, it's nearly inconceivable to me at this point.

Lukewarm

Spoiler:

It's been mentioned but the interaction with Ircher should be seen as clearing. No need to overthink it.

jjh927

Spoiler:

On D1 I found JJH one of the more interesting players in the game, and ended up at a townread. Since D2 started it's been mostly mech, which is boring. Interaction with Ircher doesn't really look paired, and I think the townread on Titus is +town after D1 when Titus was a potential wagon (not extremely likely though). I'd like to see where JJH ends up voting today, I might join if it's not me!

Klick

Spoiler:

I don't usually consider reasonable/sensible to be a towntell but Klick was like this as town in Open 859. I was initially sceptical of the crossing off thing but 1210 looks somewhat close to my own thoughts. I think 694 seems fairly towny as well.

Roden

Spoiler:

I've liked Roden's D2 more than his D1. Datisi definitely would include a 'Flirt' role, but it could easily be mafia. I just think if there are only 4 in the scumteam why hand them 2 useless abilities? Too weak. I also liked Roden's pushback on Ausuka, I think it looked towny. Roden's a townlean for me, I don't like some of his voters.

Titus

Spoiler:

Waiting for their catch up with interest, but I still think the way they pushed Ircher wasn't likely to be a bus. Early game I liked the way they made reads quite openly. Townlean.

Fireisredsir

Spoiler:

I mentioned in 562 I had trouble reading Fire in a previous game. I still agree with most of what I said in that post. Voting is definitely bad, especially 591 which puts emphasis on not opposing Ircher's elimination, yet votes a counter wagon. And now today Fire is still on Titus. I'm not a complete robot in terms of wagon analysis but I do think being a CW to scum should give you some towncred. I just haven't seen any acknowledgement of the Ircher scum flip and how that's afffected Fire's reads. However, tonally I'm townleaning Fire, the rambling/stream-of-consciousness nature of posts is similar to the Turing Test like I said earlier. It's a confusing one, voting is scum but posting town.

Mastina

Spoiler:

One big problem with this ISO is that the scumreads in 1106 (Roden, Lukewarm, Fire) are completely identical to the reads given on pages 1 and 2 (the only other scumread is Ircher). The other big problem is that Mastina's entire gameview seems to be based on 'I can't say rn, but I'm sure'. I'm kind of inferring a Masonry with JJH (sorry if this shouldn't be shared publicly, but I'm not reading hard between the lines here), and if that isn't the case then scum equity obviously is there, just for the level of confidence in reads. As ever this kind of loud, confident player is difficult to read. I do get the feeling Mastina will be sorted with time however, so I'm not too worried. For now, it's a weak townlean just for calling Ircher scum so early.

Something_Smart

Spoiler:

I liked the way they engaged with my vote on them. Pretty matter of fact, and made a couple of good points. I also think Mastina's locktown on them should be taken into account as it's not a scum/scum interaction, and if town Mastina could be right. I'm not saying a scum flip is impossible, but no longer feeling the vote.

PenguinPower

Spoiler:

I spectated a couple of PP's towngames and saw somewhat understated townplay, but this is taking the biscuit even for that standard. Andres has a point about the early wagons. Basically could be scum, only the vote on S_S is stopping me from voting PP.

Ausuka

Spoiler:

I've felt since early on this game that Ausuka has upped the meme/openwolf/casual posting style compared to Mini Normal 2279, and 534 just feels like a get-out clause. Yeah they said busy IRL but the post count isn't the difference (or not what I'm noticing anyway). 1012 bringing Petapan's voice to the fore could possibly explain that kill i.e. framekill Titus. 1033 is prescient but possible to speculate as town. 1281 et al struck me as LAMIST recently, and I do think Roden correctly finds Ausuka guilty of inconsistency regarding him and Mastina. Scumlean

Malakittens

Spoiler:

Leaning scum here. Voting D1 is bad (not Ircher), and 377 looks weird to an apparent scumread. I can see a bit of insecurity in 1017, like they need to enter pushing someone. Just haven't seen anything towny, shocked by the townreads from Klick and Lukewarm.

RCEnigma

Spoiler:

I've played in 2 Newbie games with scum!RC, never with town!RC I don't think. Pretty similar style to this game both times. I was townreading the early posting but it's dropped off since, and after Klick became more townread and RC dropped their beef he's looked a little apathetic(?) - see 1160. Definitely could be scum, and I'd like to see a wagon on RC soon.

VOTE: RCEnigma

[PenguinPower]

I like wagon momentum, but I was unsure when I voted S_S, and I'm still unsure. I'm having second thoughts

go on and unvote.

i deserve to be the first voter. it's as the world intended but for the bork.

[PenguinPower]

oh - thx

[furtiveglance]

I like wagon momentum, but I was unsure when I voted S_S, and I'm still unsure. I'm having second thoughts

go on and unvote.

i deserve to be the first voter. it's as the world intended but for the bork.

The bork - is that some kind of listmod rivalry?

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: s_sVOTE: [v/]

^

no - the borked vote that wasn't counted.

[mastina]

Plus, her read on me feels like TMI, since she clearly thinks she knows something about my role and I don't see how she can be that confident about it (even if she is right).

For the exact same reason I know jjh is town and knew Ircher was scum and know Roden is scum.

So, yes, it is a form of TMI, but in this case originating from town. The town who have paid attention that are in the know, are in the know and basically are a gigantic masonry as far as I'm concerned. {Vivax, jjh, Something_Smart, PenguinPower} is a pool which never contains scum if I'm right, here.

jjh probably knows what I know. He may or may not agree, mind you, but he probably sees what I am seeing at least.

You and PenguinPower, if I am right, might be able to figure it out, too. But obviously, the less said, the better, because I don't want to give anything away which would let scum infiltrate the holy masonry.

[Titus]

Great. How do you believe she didn't spend it?

Well, presumably her role doesn't do the big thing she's claiming it does until D4. The simplest interpretation is that it requires a ton of %, could just be that it requires acting in a certain way on multiple nights. So I don't know she didn't spend it, but I assume she can't yet do the big thing she's claiming she will, so it's effectively the same either way.

Why not consider she's bluffing or using her role multiple times?

[mastina]

firing

Roden [5]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Ausuka, Uncrowned

Titus [3]:

Roden, fireisredsir, Lukewarm

The Titus wagon sticks out to me for its constituents

Oh yeah that wagon is scummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Like, is literally my three scumreads, scum.

I wonder why?

Could it perhaps be that they know they're fucked if they lose Roden and they're hoping that they can push a wagon through on Titus?

[Titus]

firing

Roden [5]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Ausuka, Uncrowned

Titus [3]:

Roden, fireisredsir, Lukewarm

The Titus wagon sticks out to me for its constituents

Oh yeah that wagon is scummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Like, is literally my three scumreads, scum.

I wonder why?

Could it perhaps be that they know they're fucked if they lose Roden and they're hoping that they can push a wagon through on Titus?

That's where I am at, but I doubt all 3 are scum.

I'd be flabbergasted if both Roden and SS were town.

[Something_Smart]

Why not consider she's bluffing or using her role multiple times?

I figured a bluff would only last a single day. I guess it could not, but that seems like a much more deceptive way than mastina likes to play. If her role had consistent utility then she probably wouldn't wait till D4 to reveal everything because dying N3 would be awful.

[Something_Smart]

I'd be flabbergasted if both Roden and SS were town.

Why? We're probably at a pretty low scum:town ratio. Usually scum lims D1 are followed by town going wrong a couple times and then getting demotivated.

[Titus]

Why not consider she's bluffing or using her role multiple times?

I figured a bluff would only last a single day. I guess it could not, but that seems like a much more deceptive way than mastina likes to play. If her role had consistent utility then she probably wouldn't wait till D4 to reveal everything because dying N3 would be awful.

Why? If mastina's vanilla (I don't think it's the case), then she would be forced to continue the deception to show why she hadn't broke the game d2. Putting forth 100% while claiming to put 0 in can trick scum.

Second, if she couldn't use her role day 1, then she'd want to make it look like she could.

I think but can't prove you're coming from knowing mastina couldn't use her ability n1 and auto trusting her because you're scum. I don't get the townreads.

[Something_Smart]

I think but can't prove you're coming from knowing mastina couldn't use her ability n1

How would I know that as scum?

[mastina]

VOTE: SS
Will consider a Roden vote upon review as that's a strong mastina read.

Titus my townread on Something_Smart is even stronger than my scumread on Roden.

[Titus]

I think but can't prove you're coming from knowing mastina couldn't use her ability n1

How would I know that as scum?

First, scum generally propose town are honest. Since you didn't see gamebreaking, it's not a stretch you inferred it. Second, scum get powers too. Both alignments would want to investigate her. So you could know that way. The lack of doubt and analysis is suspect.

[Titus]

VOTE: SS
Will consider a Roden vote upon review as that's a strong mastina read.

Titus my townread on Something_Smart is even stronger than my scumread on Roden.

I can't see how. Throw me a bone.

I haven't read last night fyi. So if it's in there, sorry.

[fireisredsir]

im caught up but p out of it rn

i think this looks more like town titus than d1 did so i feel better there ig

i do think it's p possible that scum hard bussed once they saw the slip and one of the other main possibilities would be luke, but idk i just don't see his approach to the game as scummy at all. re-eval on vivax seemed fairly natural with just the appropriate amount of lingering pride before switching away. will try to read more closely and compare to scum games when i have more of a brain but my brief impression was that he was kinda a overwhelm with Goodposting and lots of content scum player, and didn't always match tone in the way i think he has here

one issue i do have with luke ig is i don't understand the ausuka townread, i don't think the roden interaction is remotely clearing and besides that i don't think she's been very towny yet. the lampshading of "yes im playing differently, it's on purpose!" felt kinda off to me

VOTE: ausuka