In post 909, geraintm wrote:looking at the wagons from day 1, i can only see the 2 main ones on Galron and Wayward Son. There was a minor one later on on me that had 3 people on it - 2 of whom are dead and the other was NJAC
Galron (4): Salsabil Faria, NJAC, Shiidaji, MalcolmTucker
that was Galron's
Wayward Son (5): Porkens, ProfessorDrapion, Galron, Shiidaji, Salsabil Faria, MalcolmTucker (Hammer)
that was the hammer
All 4 on Galron either ended up on Watward Son - Town, or me - Also Town (yes yes, i knwo you lot don't know that but i do).
Those 4 would be where i would suggest there is a much higher chance of there being scum than not.
I've TR'd Salsa and Shii so far, so they're two I fear could be strong scum managing to conceal their alignment. Doubt both will be a team though.
In post 903, Shiidaji wrote:Malcolm can you reply to my 732 wrt Crescent's case on Ger I'd really like that
Gera's play has been contradictory and at times reads as someone less playing from a townie POV and more someone who is informed trying to mask their scum motives.
Towards the end of D1 you had Gera regularly saying we definitely wouldn't hit scum. This felt less like a prediction and more like an attempt to seem like a townie with foresight that was overdone - despite acknowledging Wayward was town Ger made no attempt to formulate a viable alternative. This is sort of a hallmark of Ger's D1 play but the issue is they'd have happily eliminated me, so it wasn't consistent here; basically Ger essentially refused to participate in the wagon unless it was the one wagon Ger wanted.
And their push on me was rubbish and fabricated from very little too, read more like scum forcing a read on someone they knew wouldn't be limmed.
what is contradictory about me saying i wish we didn't eliminate anyone day 1
, me saying i think day 1 wagons are way more likely to end on a townie than not, and me saying i hate day 1 because there is literally no info to go on. that all seems pretty much self contained.
you complain that i didnt jump up and down and try and get an alternative to wayward son - but that would have just be based on "gut feelings" and would have been as wrong as anyone else's.
You did want an elimination D1 though, you wanted to eliminate me. That's my issue here. You dismissed the value of D1 when it suited you but pushed exclusively one vote at the same time, indeed you even voted for me twice without removing the first vote! You were clearly okay with an elimination provided it was exactly the one you wanted, lest you have to compromise at all. This is anti-town because it's a deliberate attempt from obscuring how others are able to read you D1, indeed your defence of your play here is that basically you don't like D1 when other players have repeatedly affirmed the value of it time and time again.
In post 924, MalcolmTucker wrote:Ger, I get it's frustrating when you have a style and it maybe clashes with other players, but if you want people to townread you then you can't just automatically shade others for being on a town wagon (which clearly was not all scum) when you actively refused to leave a wagon on me you knew wasn't going to pass. It makes you look suspect and without meta I'd have my vote locked onto you here.
town blocs are groups of people that are cleared - or at least that is what it means to me. day 2, when a townie was voted off yesterday and as far as i know no extra info no one should be giving other players passes like that. certainly not someone who's "gut feelings" yesterday resulted in them voting off town. because if they were wrong about that then they really, really have no reason to be painting a bunch of players as green today
Yeah, I know but I'm not confirming anything.... when saw the flip, immediately 3 names came to mind who are in my town block atm, so the rests are in my POE.
Did
Crescent
townread
Shiidaji
?
Crescent didn't seem to have too many thoughts on Shii.
I need to read the ISOs again...
I was hoping to see
Professor
dead as per their claim tbh, but scum didn't kill a supposed PR but non-PR
Crescent
.... usually means they were caught scum or on the right track.
I'm waiting for someone to say something special in mafia game(s) about me, so that, I can change my pathetic signature.
Damn you salsa and your kamikaze claim that allowed you to enjoy and succeed within your own personally crafted win condition ~ AurorusVox
In post 903, Shiidaji wrote:Malcolm can you reply to my 732 wrt Crescent's case on Ger I'd really like that
Gera's play has been contradictory and at times reads as someone less playing from a townie POV and more someone who is informed trying to mask their scum motives.
Towards the end of D1 you had Gera regularly saying we definitely wouldn't hit scum. This felt less like a prediction and more like an attempt to seem like a townie with foresight that was overdone - despite acknowledging Wayward was town Ger made no attempt to formulate a viable alternative. This is sort of a hallmark of Ger's D1 play but the issue is they'd have happily eliminated me, so it wasn't consistent here; basically Ger essentially refused to participate in the wagon unless it was the one wagon Ger wanted.
And their push on me was rubbish and fabricated from very little too, read more like scum forcing a read on someone they knew wouldn't be limmed.
what is contradictory about me saying i wish we didn't eliminate anyone day 1
, me saying i think day 1 wagons are way more likely to end on a townie than not, and me saying i hate day 1 because there is literally no info to go on. that all seems pretty much self contained.
you complain that i didnt jump up and down and try and get an alternative to wayward son - but that would have just be based on "gut feelings" and would have been as wrong as anyone else's.
You did want an elimination D1 though, you wanted to eliminate me. That's my issue here. You dismissed the value of D1 when it suited you but pushed exclusively one vote at the same time, indeed you even voted for me twice without removing the first vote! You were clearly okay with an elimination provided it was exactly the one you wanted, lest you have to compromise at all. This is anti-town because it's a deliberate attempt from obscuring how others are able to read you D1, indeed your defence of your play here is that basically you don't like D1 when other players have repeatedly affirmed the value of it time and time again.
then i was in error yesterday for not just giving you a naughty point and actually placing a vote like i normally do
(in no particular order) by creating the town-block including
{
NJAC
,
Malcolm
,
Kitty
}
#
you voted off a towie, you dont get to make town blocs
Famously scum never distance themselves from a town elimination for towncred.
i dont understand this post.
and @ njac - my style is what it is. calling me names isnt going to get me to change.
You are shading Salsa for making up their townblock because they voted out a townie. My argument here is town are uninformed and so will often accidentally eliminate town. Your stance here is unhelpful because you are using your meta-refusal to push on D1 (which you did anyway when it suited you) as an attempt to gain town-cred over players like Salsa. You are suggesting you are more townie for not eliminating Wayward which is blatantly untrue, unless your approach to mafia is that all scum automatically just vote out town and never attempt distancing. I don't think that's fair. Either you scumread Salsa or you townread them, or someone inbetween. If it's not the former, there should be value to you in Salsa presenting you with a townblock.
In post 903, Shiidaji wrote:Malcolm can you reply to my 732 wrt Crescent's case on Ger I'd really like that
Gera's play has been contradictory and at times reads as someone less playing from a townie POV and more someone who is informed trying to mask their scum motives.
Towards the end of D1 you had Gera regularly saying we definitely wouldn't hit scum. This felt less like a prediction and more like an attempt to seem like a townie with foresight that was overdone - despite acknowledging Wayward was town Ger made no attempt to formulate a viable alternative. This is sort of a hallmark of Ger's D1 play but the issue is they'd have happily eliminated me, so it wasn't consistent here; basically Ger essentially refused to participate in the wagon unless it was the one wagon Ger wanted.
And their push on me was rubbish and fabricated from very little too, read more like scum forcing a read on someone they knew wouldn't be limmed.
what is contradictory about me saying i wish we didn't eliminate anyone day 1
, me saying i think day 1 wagons are way more likely to end on a townie than not, and me saying i hate day 1 because there is literally no info to go on. that all seems pretty much self contained.
you complain that i didnt jump up and down and try and get an alternative to wayward son - but that would have just be based on "gut feelings" and would have been as wrong as anyone else's.
You did want an elimination D1 though, you wanted to eliminate me. That's my issue here. You dismissed the value of D1 when it suited you but pushed exclusively one vote at the same time, indeed you even voted for me twice without removing the first vote! You were clearly okay with an elimination provided it was exactly the one you wanted, lest you have to compromise at all. This is anti-town because it's a deliberate attempt from obscuring how others are able to read you D1, indeed your defence of your play here is that basically you don't like D1 when other players have repeatedly affirmed the value of it time and time again.
then i was in error yesterday for not just giving you a naughty point and actually placing a vote like i normally do
Okay, so why did you vote me? And why did your refusal to engage in the process of finding a player to eliminate only actually begin later in the turn? You were being much more helpful early in D1. How are we actually supposed to read you here when your stance is "I don't like D1 so anything I say then doesn't matter"? Do you not see the glaring contradiction here which makes players scumread you? If you are town, again, I am saying you can engage with these reasons and try to actually help us find scum. This current approach is not helping and is not conductive to town.
Yeah, I know but I'm not confirming anything.... when saw the flip, immediately 3 names came to mind who are in my town block atm, so the rests are in my POE.
Did
Crescent
townread
Shiidaji
?
Crescent didn't seem to have too many thoughts on Shii.
I need to read the ISOs again...
I was hoping to see
Professor
dead as per their claim tbh, but scum didn't kill a supposed PR but non-PR
Crescent
.... usually means they were caught scum or on the right track *or
Professor
is scum. (forgot to add)*
*EBWOP
I'm waiting for someone to say something special in mafia game(s) about me, so that, I can change my pathetic signature.
Damn you salsa and your kamikaze claim that allowed you to enjoy and succeed within your own personally crafted win condition ~ AurorusVox
(in no particular order) by creating the town-block including
{
NJAC
,
Malcolm
,
Kitty
}
#
you voted off a towie, you dont get to make town blocs
Famously scum never distance themselves from a town elimination for towncred.
i dont understand this post.
and @ njac - my style is what it is. calling me names isnt going to get me to change.
You are shading Salsa for making up their townblock because they voted out a townie. My argument here is town are uninformed and so will often accidentally eliminate town. Your stance here is unhelpful because you are using your meta-refusal to push on D1 (which you did anyway when it suited you) as an attempt to gain town-cred over players like Salsa. You are suggesting you are more townie for not eliminating Wayward which is blatantly untrue, unless your approach to mafia is that all scum automatically just vote out town and never attempt distancing. I don't think that's fair. Either you scumread Salsa or you townread them, or someone inbetween. If it's not the former, there should be value to you in Salsa presenting you with a townblock.
Btw, scum!me could easily voted
geraintm
without gathering any suspicion.
I'm waiting for someone to say something special in mafia game(s) about me, so that, I can change my pathetic signature.
Damn you salsa and your kamikaze claim that allowed you to enjoy and succeed within your own personally crafted win condition ~ AurorusVox
In post 904, ProfessorDrapion wrote:Dude TF is NJAC’s post “oh do you think there isn’t 1 wolf in an 11 player game”
Dude if there was 1 wolf in an 11 player game I’d feel bad for the 1 wolf.
VOTE: NJAC
Prof where do you get that NJAC thinks there's one maf?
Yeah, I know but I'm not confirming anything.... when saw the flip, immediately 3 names came to mind who are in my town block atm, so the rests are in my POE.
Did
Crescent
townread
Shiidaji
?
Crescent didn't seem to have too many thoughts on Shii.
I need to read the ISOs again...
I was hoping to see
Professor
dead as per their claim tbh, but scum didn't kill a supposed PR but non-PR
Crescent
.... usually means they were caught scum or on the right track.
I had Crescent in null either as lower-key scum or as a town PR in my tenuously held fantasy for most of D1 because of her play, until the end when she started pushing the ger vote hard. It's WIFOM for now until we eventually get setup knowledge why they didn't shoot Drapion but considering what his claimed role implies I understand why they didn't shoot him and instead chose to go fishing.
Doesn't mean they couldn't have been trying to kill two cats with one stone though They likely also chose her because she would be a hard vote down the line + her end of day hunches were right like you said. The alternative is that they shot her with the intent to line Ger up as the next ML. I still see Ger as town so right now I'm eyeing that motive, I'll have a good reread after work tn.
When i open this game, and starting read, i immediatly close it because i starting strongly consider self last townie alive and others are just jesters.
In post 943, KittyTacky wrote:I think whoever steered the wagon away from Galron is scum with Galron. VOTE: Galron
I'd argue Salsa and Shii were the two key switches onto Wayward which essentially killed off Galron's wagon. But I don't particularly scumread either of them and their reasoning were solid.
Myself and NJAC voted for Ger around that time too, which was the third possible wagon, but again our votes were reasonable based on what went before. Who specifically do you think is implicating from the Galron wagon withering away?
today.... I think town's best choice is in between
Galron
&
Wayward
atm. And I don’t want to eliminate
geraintm
today.
@Wayward
, yes I agree with you about checking me, my life will be so much easier in later game.
One question though, why don’t you townread me anymore? Apart from I'm voting you?
Unless Salsa was bluffing here I don't see their switch to Wayward as particularly scum motivated with the defence of teammate Galron - they say quite openly they still considered Galron to be a good choice for elimination. I'm not sure the shakers and movers D1 were necessarily scum here - it's possible scum settled for slots they liked and wanted to push early on and then stuck there.
In post 603, MalcolmTucker wrote:I've seen Gera do this no elimination on D1 thing before but my issue at the moment is they weren't particularly bothered about it early on and appeared to be genuinely scumhunting, whereas now they seriously want to avoid us voting while we look to consolidate on Galron's wagon.
Given the short period of time we have left I think I'm content vote here. But town should obviously be careful as we'll be approaching hammer soon, think my vote is the 4th.
VOTE: Galron
VOTE: Galron
I veto gera, they play day 1 like this as town, they're at worst null, kill Galron today.
In post 720, KittyTacky wrote:Gera is always anti-town day 1 even if they're not scum.
Is there any reason Ger/Kitty can't be a possible team here as well? Kitty's not gotten too much scrutiny so far but hasn't done much to convince me they're town.
Note the "veto" here - again part of the difficulty with Ger's approach is it's often hard to read D1 but when we were reaching a point where compromise was potentially necessary, why was Kitty so against Ger being eliminated? If they always play like this D1 then it has to be acknowledged that can encompass scum games.
Kitty's determination to push Galron has at least been consistent but also feels like the sort of single-minded logic scum can sometimes get into to ensure they look like they have a strong and driven push. It doesn't feel like Kitty is that open to alternatives to the point where they're basing their other solves almost exclusively on whoever is likely to be paired with Galron, without providing evidence (so far) for who that is likely to be.
In post 555, KittyTacky wrote:Yeah I should have mentioned that gera is weird, they don't give a damn about the game day 1 and basically become Not_Mafia until D2. That's why I'm hesitant to vote them.
I'd also argue Kitty's tone re Ger changed significantly once the wagon on the slot started to gain some momentum.
At first they were merely hesitant due to playstyle; then hesitancy turned into a hard veto. They compared Ger's early play to Not_Mafia but when stuck in previous games there have been occasions where NM has basically been treated like a policy lim.
Kitty stayed on Galron and clearly wasn't particularly confident about eliminating Wayward - but why not fight for that slot as well? Especially when they admitted their read on Ger was no more than "null".
~ 
