In post 981, geraintm wrote:@malcolm.
i dont want day 1 eliminations. i believe town is best served not killing anyone and starting the game only 1 player down and with whatever night info they have, rather than 2 down.
i think everyone's thoughts on day 1 are pointless.
but you can use the info gained from actual actions - votes - on day 1 during day 2.
i think during day 1 all but the few scum (and in there are townies with extra info) are just waffling out of their arses everytime they say someone is scummy (and yes, i include myself in that). during day 1 you can't do anything with what anyone says, it is just pointless. i sit there and give out naughty points as place holders for when i think someone has done something i dont like and want to make a note that later on they can be used as something to return to - (which is what i should have done with you instead of voting).
but once we have a flip then we can start to piece the game together.
and that is what i am trying to do.
you cannot use the defence of "i didnt really want to eliminate wayward, look i said it!" whilst then actually voting for them.
that is an action and i can make reads based off your actions.
you cannot say that you only voted them off because it provides more information, and then vote for me for using the very information you have provided for my reads!
Sorry but you continually ignore what the vast, vast majority of players who play mafia say on this one - D1 eliminations have value because they give us info. Without info we are shooting into the dark D2. With no elimination we'd have nothing because Crescent is a strong player and would have been an unsurprising night-kill no matter what.
Now we know Porkens consistently pushed town from the start. Now we know who voted out a townie - reasonably or otherwise - going forward. We know who actively avoided the wagon, perhaps for their own self-gain.
The majority of mafia for uninformed town involves shooting into the dark. Even now, on D2, our info remains somewhat limited, because if you are town you do not know who is scum, the literal point is to solve, whether it be based on intuition, votes, gut or links between players. Without eliminations and votes it is impossible to do that. Refusing to compromise on wagons or eliminate players is fundamentally anti-town. You have been told this over and over again, by players who are experienced and good at mafia, and you simply refuse to take this info on-board.
If you are town your suspicion of me for the hammer is just fundamentally a complete misreading of the game. I have said, multiple times now, we needed someone to be voted out D1 and nobody has hammered. My concern when going to bed was nobody would be around to do so and we would head into D2 without an elimination. What if Wayward had actually been scum? It would've been a wasted turn. I don't think you are town but if you are - without meaning to sound like a dick here, please engage with the actual realities of the game and how everyone else plays mafia instead of holding theories and reads based on your own obscure approach to the game nobody else actually agrees with or follows.
It is simply impossible to work alongside a townie who refuses to compromise on a wagon because they think they know better, then blames another player for hammering because too many players in the game are just outright refusing to compromise or consider an alternative elimination to whoever they want out.
And again - this is part of my issue with your approach here. You say D1 is useless but pushed me. When it suits you, you are evidently happy to eliminate, but then won't compromise on anyone else. That is just fundamentally anti-town, mafia involves compromise.