Mini Normal 2280 | Music Hits of 2015-2019 | GAME OVER

[Porkens]

Well take a look there are 10 hours left and your wagons are tied at L-2

[NJAC]

NJACs ISO is basically 3 things:

1. Do you think XYZ is town? Why?
2. What is your case on XYZ?
3. You didn’t respond to 123, please go back and respond.

This is quintessential scum fluffing. It looks like activity, but it’s not. It looks like it contributes, but it doesn’t. It’s scum playing facilitator.

VOTE: NJAC

This is a huge misrep of my play, and I find it very hypocritical coming from a player whose contribution has been almost null, and their posts are basically: I'm bad at this and that, that's scummy, etc., without providing much reasoning.

[MalcolmTucker]

Ger why are you not on NJAC?

i havent really looked at them much, they havent pinged me over the last few days so havent looked.

Do you intend to support a vote on somebody who actually has a chance of being eliminated here? NJAC is the counterwagon to you. If you are town it is fundamentally in your interest to be on this wagon unless you have on alternative because if you are not scum, then from your POV there is a stronger chance of NJAC being scum than you.

[Porkens]

Point to 3 posts that aren’t one of the above.

[Porkens]

@njac

[Shiidaji]

I'll try to come back before deadline but I'll be busy, so no promises.

VOTE: geraintm

E-2

Njac coming back at me a bit was kind of townie.

I've really soured on geraintm being town.

VOTE: gera

My brain is trying to process ger's posting as scum but I think his style of posting is preventing me from it. Galron can you point me at what ger posts you were looking at in post 1202? atm I prefer NJAC before Porkens or much less ger. I'll be around to check in within the next 6 hrs, deadline's during my sleepytime.

[Shiidaji]

Ger why are you not on NJAC?

i havent really looked at them much, they havent pinged me over the last few days so havent looked.

Would you describe yourself as a strong scum player? Anyone else can chime in here fyi

[MalcolmTucker]

NJACs ISO is basically 3 things:

1. Do you think XYZ is town? Why?
2. What is your case on XYZ?
3. You didn’t respond to 123, please go back and respond.

This is quintessential scum fluffing. It looks like activity, but it’s not. It looks like it contributes, but it doesn’t. It’s scum playing facilitator.

VOTE: NJAC

This is a huge misrep of my play, and I find it very hypocritical coming from a player

whose contribution has been almost null

, and their posts are basically: I'm bad at this and that, that's scummy, etc., without providing much reasoning.

In a very, very mild defence of Porkens, for all their uncertainty and meddling logic I'd argue they've absolutely had reads this turn. The actual logic behind them isn't particularly solid (their read on me has felt fake) but I feel like this post is a bit overly defensive.

[MalcolmTucker]

Ger not being on the NJAC gives me pause that they just still ultimately be obstructive town as opposed to scum because it's surely in their interest to be on the NJAC wagon at this point even for self-preservation if scum, unless they are confident in their bluffing. Or unless there's an extremely small chance we have nabbed two teammates, which would be impressive but I doubt.

[Shiidaji]

NJACs ISO is basically 3 things:

1. Do you think XYZ is town? Why?
2. What is your case on XYZ?
3. You didn’t respond to 123, please go back and respond.

This is quintessential scum fluffing. It looks like activity, but it’s not. It looks like it contributes, but it doesn’t. It’s scum playing facilitator.

VOTE: NJAC

This is a huge misrep of my play, and I find it very hypocritical coming from a player whose contribution has been almost null, and their posts are basically: I'm bad at this and that, that's scummy, etc., without providing much reasoning.

I agree with Porkens here, in terms of how I read your playstyle. When I play scum and I'm trying to fabricate content I feel compelled to just ask people quick questions in succession, and then keep track of people that don't respond to me to have something to post about later. I know town can do this too, it's a vibe I'm getting from your posting.

[NJAC]

Point to 3 posts that aren’t one of the above.

You should do the job if you're genuinely interested in determining my alignment.

My posts in which I talk about the softclaim, my posts in which I state my reads, even the very first posts in which I first interacted with you, are examples of posts that don't fall in the categories you mentioned. And no, asking questions, advancing the game and forming reads on other players through interactions is not scummy, so stop misrepping me.

[Porkens]

Where do you think you e advanced the game?

[MalcolmTucker]

NJACs ISO is basically 3 things:

1. Do you think XYZ is town? Why?
2. What is your case on XYZ?
3. You didn’t respond to 123, please go back and respond.

This is quintessential scum fluffing. It looks like activity, but it’s not. It looks like it contributes, but it doesn’t. It’s scum playing facilitator.

VOTE: NJAC

This is a huge misrep of my play, and I find it very hypocritical coming from a player whose contribution has been almost null, and their posts are basically: I'm bad at this and that, that's scummy, etc., without providing much reasoning.

I agree with Porkens here, in terms of how I read your playstyle. When I play scum and I'm trying to fabricate content I feel compelled to just ask people quick questions in succession, and then keep track of people that don't respond to me to have something to post about later. I know town can do this too, it's a vibe I'm getting from your posting.

This is also definitely something I've done as scum when I'm struggling for content and want to look busy.

I think NJAC's gotten busier/more active in their reads but it was a slot I was very much null on before, in a way where they'd not done anything explicitly scummy but neither did they feel like a town player driving the game forward. The idea their increased activity has perhaps come from fears they could be eliminated isn't impossible.

[NJAC]

NJACs ISO is basically 3 things:

1. Do you think XYZ is town? Why?
2. What is your case on XYZ?
3. You didn’t respond to 123, please go back and respond.

This is quintessential scum fluffing. It looks like activity, but it’s not. It looks like it contributes, but it doesn’t. It’s scum playing facilitator.

VOTE: NJAC

This is a huge misrep of my play, and I find it very hypocritical coming from a player

whose contribution has been almost null

, and their posts are basically: I'm bad at this and that, that's scummy, etc., without providing much reasoning.

In a very, very mild defence of Porkens, for all their uncertainty and meddling logic I'd argue they've absolutely had reads this turn. The actual logic behind them isn't particularly solid (their read on me has felt fake) but I feel like this post is a bit overly defensive.

Well, I don't have meta to rely on, so my point stands still. And it might sound defensive because we're running out of time and I see a high chance of the wagon on me ending up in another mislim, so I better defend from the case made on me.

[MalcolmTucker]

Point to 3 posts that aren’t one of the above.

You should do the job if you're genuinely interested in determining my alignment.

My posts in which I talk about the softclaim, my posts in which I state my reads,

even the very first posts in which I first interacted with you

, are examples of posts that don't fall in the categories you mentioned. And no, asking questions, advancing the game and forming reads on other players through interactions is not scummy, so stop misrepping me.

Your first interactions with Porkens are posts which could absolutely come from scum - they allow to appear helpful and communicative with Porkens without actually having to do anything to advance the game, while also looking as if you are concerned for a townie to make sure they know what they're doing, or to gently probe and hint someone could be scum if their responses don't look particularly great.

[MalcolmTucker]

NJACs ISO is basically 3 things:

1. Do you think XYZ is town? Why?
2. What is your case on XYZ?
3. You didn’t respond to 123, please go back and respond.

This is quintessential scum fluffing. It looks like activity, but it’s not. It looks like it contributes, but it doesn’t. It’s scum playing facilitator.

VOTE: NJAC

This is a huge misrep of my play, and I find it very hypocritical coming from a player

whose contribution has been almost null

, and their posts are basically: I'm bad at this and that, that's scummy, etc., without providing much reasoning.

In a very, very mild defence of Porkens, for all their uncertainty and meddling logic I'd argue they've absolutely had reads this turn. The actual logic behind them isn't particularly solid (their read on me has felt fake) but I feel like this post is a bit overly defensive.

Well, I don't have meta to rely on, so my point stands still. And it might sound defensive because we're running out of time and I see a high chance of the wagon on me ending up in another mislim, so I better defend from the case made on me.

On a very brief skim through your ISO there, Porkens is absolutely correct about point three - there's a lot of cases where you're constantly asking people to go back and address something you've asked them. This could be something you always do meta-wise (if you can help me on this one then great) but the defensiveness seems odd to me when one of the three things they've pointed out is a fair and accurate representation of your play. Constantly asking people to go back and address points/questions is something which could come from scum wanting to look meticulous and townie in their approach to the game. And my issue here is I don't think anything in your response to Porkens necessarily refutes what they are saying, but I'll need to take a slightly closer look.

[NJAC]

NJACs ISO is basically 3 things:

1. Do you think XYZ is town? Why?
2. What is your case on XYZ?
3. You didn’t respond to 123, please go back and respond.

This is quintessential scum fluffing. It looks like activity, but it’s not. It looks like it contributes, but it doesn’t. It’s scum playing facilitator.

VOTE: NJAC

This is a huge misrep of my play, and I find it very hypocritical coming from a player whose contribution has been almost null, and their posts are basically: I'm bad at this and that, that's scummy, etc., without providing much reasoning.

I agree with Porkens here, in terms of how I read your playstyle. When I play scum and I'm trying to fabricate content I feel compelled to just ask people quick questions in succession, and then keep track of people that don't respond to me to have something to post about later. I know town can do this too, it's a vibe I'm getting from your posting.

Okay. I haven't been scum in a while, but asking questions, interacting with others, seeing the way people answer and react to my posts is how I use to form reads on other players. In this particular game I have had to quote my questions several times because many players have decided to ignore them, that's why you see me insisting on them.

[MalcolmTucker]

NJACs ISO is basically 3 things:

1. Do you think XYZ is town? Why?
2. What is your case on XYZ?
3. You didn’t respond to 123, please go back and respond.

This is quintessential scum fluffing. It looks like activity, but it’s not. It looks like it contributes, but it doesn’t. It’s scum playing facilitator.

VOTE: NJAC

This is a huge misrep of my play, and I find it very hypocritical coming from a player

whose contribution has been almost null

, and their posts are basically: I'm bad at this and that, that's scummy, etc., without providing much reasoning.

In a very, very mild defence of Porkens, for all their uncertainty and meddling logic I'd argue they've absolutely had reads this turn. The actual logic behind them isn't particularly solid (their read on me has felt fake) but I feel like this post is a bit overly defensive.

Well, I don't have meta to rely on, so my point stands still. And it might sound defensive because we're running out of time and I see a high chance of the wagon on me ending up in another mislim, so I better defend from the case made on me.

On a very brief skim through your ISO there, Porkens is absolutely correct about point three - there's a lot of cases where you're constantly asking people to go back and address something you've asked them. This could be something you always do meta-wise (if you can help me on this one then great) but the defensiveness seems odd to me when one of the three things they've pointed out is a fair and accurate representation of your play. Constantly asking people to go back and address points/questions is something which could come from scum wanting to look meticulous and townie in their approach to the game. And my issue here is I don't think anything in your response to Porkens necessarily refutes what they are saying, but I'll need to take a slightly closer look.

To add to this - another quick skim there shows point 1 from Porkens to be completely fair as well.

Again asking questions in itself is not necessarily scum-motivated, it can be useful for communication obviously, but can also be a perfectly useful way for scum to try and catch townies out or get a response before going all-in with a read they're ready to commit on.

[NJAC]

Where do you think you e advanced the game?

Through my posts: I ask others to explain their cases, to detail their reads, to take stances, etc., so I can try to determine if their intentions are genuine or not, and understand better why they post what they post. It's also useful for others. So that's how I help to advance the game.

[Porkens]

No I mean show me where you have advanced the game state; an example.

[MalcolmTucker]

Where do you think you e advanced the game?

Through my posts: I ask others to explain their cases, to detail their reads, to take stances, etc., so I can try to determine if their intentions are genuine or not, and understand better why they post what they post. It's also useful for others. So that's how I help to advance the game.

My concern here though is that this is all absolutely stuff that can come from scum just as equally as helpful town though. Scum can try to look busy by regularly asking questions and obtaining the thoughts of other townies - after all, it can be a useful way for scum to gauge a town player's mindset. Overall the stuff you're listing there is just NAI to me.

I didn't really get Professor's early push on you for your questions directed at Porkens, for example, because I thought it was probably helpful town, but reading back and reading some of your posts since there's absolutely a pattern where it feels like you're asking a lot of questions and asking for a lot of clarifications without necessarily doing a whole lot.

Your scumread on Ger is one I've agreed with largely but also an easy scumcase for you to make because of Ger's approach, and your other main scumread recently has been Kitty, a slightly more original wagon. From a previous newbie game though I see you referred to Kitty's play as anti-town because of their tendency (a bit like Ger) to sometimes hyperfocus on one particular player and be quite stubborn when it comes to wagons.

My concern here if you're scum is you're building scumcases on players you perceive as anti-town because you see that as a much more viable approach for surviving as scum: after all, if Ger is eliminated then it's hard to blame someone for eliminating them because I see why they could be scum here. But beyond that my concern is I'm perhaps too tunnelled on those slots at the expense of someone like yourself who could be playing a smarter and more subtle scumgame.

[NJAC]

Point to 3 posts that aren’t one of the above.

You should do the job if you're genuinely interested in determining my alignment.

My posts in which I talk about the softclaim, my posts in which I state my reads,

even the very first posts in which I first interacted with you

, are examples of posts that don't fall in the categories you mentioned. And no, asking questions, advancing the game and forming reads on other players through interactions is not scummy, so stop misrepping me.

Your first interactions with Porkens are posts which could absolutely come from scum - they allow to appear helpful and communicative with Porkens without actually having to do anything to advance the game, while also looking as if you are concerned for a townie to make sure they know what they're doing, or to gently probe and hint someone could be scum if their responses don't look particularly great.

Yeah I think it could come from scum, I'm not saying the opposite, I was aswering Porkens' question, so what's your point here?

In fact I think it was you who said that those interactions were useful, and at least for me they were, because I got an idea of what to expect from Porkens and the kind of player I was dealing with.

[MalcolmTucker]

As a slight counterpoint to my own post above though - I will point of NJAC is still on Kitty's wagon when the best thing for them to do right now would be to move onto Ger's wagon and consolidate. They'd have cover as they already scumread Ger anyway. The fact they've not done this yet makes me wonder if they could be town, or if again there's a bluff here and they were confident town didn't have the numbers to vote them out.

[NJAC]

No I mean show me where you have advanced the game state; an example.

Well I'm not sure what exactly you expect me to answer, perhaps you can show me an example of game advancing so I can understand you better.

[MalcolmTucker]

Point to 3 posts that aren’t one of the above.

You should do the job if you're genuinely interested in determining my alignment.

My posts in which I talk about the softclaim, my posts in which I state my reads,

even the very first posts in which I first interacted with you

, are examples of posts that don't fall in the categories you mentioned. And no, asking questions, advancing the game and forming reads on other players through interactions is not scummy, so stop misrepping me.

Your first interactions with Porkens are posts which could absolutely come from scum - they allow to appear helpful and communicative with Porkens without actually having to do anything to advance the game, while also looking as if you are concerned for a townie to make sure they know what they're doing, or to gently probe and hint someone could be scum if their responses don't look particularly great.

Yeah I think it could come from scum, I'm not saying the opposite, I was aswering Porkens' question, so what's your point here?

In fact I think it was you who said that those interactions were useful

, and at least for me they were, because I got an idea of what to expect from Porkens and the kind of player I was dealing with.

Yep I've addressed that above. It's not inherently unhelpful but it's an approach which can come from either alignment and it doesn't clear you. What's helpful for town can be useful for scum. I don't know, there was just a slight oddness to your reply to Porkens which pinged me; a bit like you'd settled on Porkens as being indecisive and useless as town because it suited your narrative if scum when - for as much as their pushes lack substance - I don't think they've not necessarily done all that much less than you or a couple of other players when it comes to having reads (and you've definitely had more reads than some players who for me have been blatantly anti-town).