Mini Normal 2283 - Mafia PT

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Frogsterking - Mafia Doctor

Eiralox

Titus - Mafia Mailman
BlueBloodedToffee - Mafia Goon

[Frogsterking]

Get ready for some of the worst setup spec you've ever seen.

This is a tier list which was added to the Normals recently.

Strong: these roles will almost always significantly help the town, in pretty much any context. You'd expect to see these roles be gated, appear in small numbers, or be balanced out by mafia roles.

Cop, Watcher,

Vigilante

,

Gunsmith

, Neapolitan, PT Cop, Traffic Analyst, Jailkeeper, Alien

Moderately strong: these roles will usually contribute significantly, and generally have certain cases where they are comparably powerful to the top roles (and cases where they don't pan out). They can appear in a variety of setups.

Tracker, Follower, Psychologist, Detective, Roleblocker, Doctor, Rolestopper

Medium: these roles are useful, and adding them to a setup will pretty much always help the town, but are also very limited in their capacity to affect the game and are not really capable of swinging it hugely in town's favor.

Mason, Innocent Child, Friendly Neighbor, Universal Backup, Reporter, Vengeful, Babysitter, Bodyguard

Mild: these roles can have impact, but it's expected that in many games, their impact will be incidental, they require interactions with other roles to be useful, or they provide just a small amount of insight into the game. Reviewers will sometimes suggest adding one of them to tip the balance slightly, and you can usually add them to setups without them changing much.

Motion Detector, Shield, Role cop, Hider, Commuter, Vanilla Cop, Security Guard, Finder, Role Watcher, Voyeur, Inspector

Nil: these roles are typically not expected to help the town, unless there is some specific setup aspect that is designed to make them useful. They may still be powerful if given certain modifiers (for example, "loyal neighborizer" would probably be fit to place in the highest tier).

Neighborizer, Visionary, Fruit Vendor, Checker, Mailman, Neighbor, Encryptor, Miller, Visitor

I bolded the two at the top because Mafia Doctor implies town has Vig and/or GS (GS doesn't guilty mafia doctors.) I don't think we would have a doctor if Town didn't have at least one or the other if not both because it would be considered trolling us by the review team.

I doubt that Town has any protectives because

#1 it would conflict with me in a mass claim because if we all were townsided then it would be gamebreaking
#2 we don't have a roleblocker to stop follow-the-cop play

That makes me think Town has a couple strong investigatives including GS, a Vig, and a weaker role which does something different from a mailman.

This is what I'm picturing:

Vig
GS
Follower (or something similar in that tier)
Inspector (or something similar in that tier)
A bunch of VTs

That way the balance team can feel good because if there's a mass claim for whatever reason we can all claim our roles and it won't be super obvious who is lying.

[Frogsterking]

Oh yeah, part of the reason I think our roles are likely to be super claimable is that we have no way of understanding what's out there (like a watcher) so it's logical that Town doesn't have anything which would obviously contradict us in a mass claim. I know that's something they consider when approving setups for Normals.

[Frogsterking]

I'm sure there is some information about how to use the mailman role available online but I just grabbed the LHF for now from the wiki:

Since the power of Neighborizer itself is dependent on the player's skill, a Mailman's value is even more dependent on the player's skill or the value of the information the player has at its disposal.

As their Night Choice, a Mailman chooses a message to send, and a player to send it to. At the end of the Night, the moderator will then send the message to the player in question. There is no word limit on the message, but it must be a single message.

Mailman messages should be formatted in such a way as to make it clear that the message comes from a Mailman and is not mod-confirmed information. However, the author should not be confirmed by the moderator either (it's legal for a player to claim an identity in the message, but also to lie about their identity in the message).

So main takeaways from wiki are:

-leverage our info (scum doctor biggest clue probably)
-no word limit
-mod won't endorse any of it but they will deliver it which gives it some authority
-can lie through our teeth if we want

There are a few things I can add from studying this kind of stuff:

-the players who are messaged earlier (N1 > N2 > N3 etc. ) will be more open to being persuaded than players who are messaged later
-longer and detailed message with thought behind it is more likely to be viewed as credible and followed up on
-any kind of risky, gambit-type suggestions in the message are unlikely to be followed up on
-aggressive or militaristic or whatever plans are unlikely to be viewed as credible or followed up on.
-Abrasive or curt can still work and get compliance if the requests are percieved as reasonable.
-my first thought is that reciprocity and scarcity can be applied in a i-can-only-message-one-person-tonight-and-i-chose-you kind of way

[Frogsterking]

@mod

Is it possible to get a discord scum chat?

[Frogsterking]

Claims and strategy thoughts:

-scum doctor / frog

I think the obvious implication with a scum doctor is that I use the ability to protect one of you from a vig and/or I function like a Godfather in Normal against a GS. I think we know there is a high chance of a vig and they are likely to shoot someone like NM, a lurker, Enchant or anyone else who is difficult to read or not active in the thread. It would be great if we ended the Day with none of us in that category of a player who is likely to get vigged, because then I can use my ability like a real doctor on some obv town we aren't killing and that might cause us to randomly win the game later if a TPR "confirms" what I was doing (rather than lose randomly because they confirm I WASN'T where I should have been.) I am going to breadcrumb doc from the get go and maybe hunt for the investigatives so I "know who to protect," because I really don't believe Town has a real protective considering our roles.

-messenger / eiralox

I know you can be verbose and stylized and that's going make you good for your role. BBT and I can help look for opportunities during the day of who might be a good target. I think if you just send a really credible message with some reads and an FoS (and maybe request that they do something for us the next day to make sure they're pocketed) and DON'T tell them who you are but let it be kind of obvious anyway, then later in the game like in lylo you can claim messenger and they'll be like "oh yeah i knew it was him" and you're off the hook (cause your message was obv town and they're ego locked because they did what it said.) I'd expect mostly the N1 and N2 targets have the best chance to get pocketed, so it might be worth just following up with one of them N3/N4. If you write the draft during D1 for the N1 message and post it here in the chat then BBT and I can help with the editing/suggestions while we play.

-vanilla / BBT

I think VT is a good claim because it will sound believable and you can get "confirmed" by a role cop or simple checker or some shit. I think VT is also a good claim in general provided you have a couple townies willing to go to bat for you because it can strengthen their town read on you when you claim it. You're good about asking questions and following up in your town meta so I think if you question a few people really hard and follow up with it later that might net you some townreads and won't look like your doing anything out of the ordinary other than having a good game. I feel like the only reason you got pushed from what I've seen is that your post count looks low from the activity overview. If you like interrogate someone with a bunch of follow up questions it will pad your post count and won't look sus as long as they're pointed questions and you post some takeaway on it later.

My big question though is who would send in the night kill? It doesn't really work with any of our claims if we get spotted.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This should be fun, I think in terms of the night kill we need to wait and see how Day plays out.

I'm good with the set up spec as well, makes sense. I wonder if town have some kind of vendor to match with the Mailman?

[Eiralox]

>.>

[Cat Scratch Fever]

@mod

Is it possible to get a discord scum chat?

Yes I can do that. Eiralox and BBT need to give me their discord tags though, because i can't find them

[Eiralox]

Amok #8279

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I added you, but I also realized I can drop an invite link: https://discord.gg/2bmcgJnp

[Eiralox]

might fakeclaim 1-shot bulletproof fruit vendor if under pressure before claiming mailman, asking mail receivers to act as if i'm a vendor (BP claim subject to scrutiny, not adding to night messages maybe,,,, depending on later and heals well see,,,,, ) i think i can spin the fakeclaim as: scum less likely to nk vendor than mailman, and depending on mail target efficacy, ill havetown folk backing me up after iu reveal it's fake,


.........

Basically today I'm going to sheep enchant, Not_Mafia and Asia, if safe.

........

tmrw in thread I think i'll push toward frogster and firebringer.............. not hard but little piranha nudges just so im seen doing soemthing,

........

some reason i keep expecting here to be masons. eh. luck bunnies

[Frogsterking]

I added you, but I also realized I can drop an invite link: https://discord.gg/2bmcgJnp

Thank you!

@Eiralox @BBT

I've been using discord on my tablet which I don't have right now. If I can't get it back tomorrow I'll install it on something else.

[Frogsterking]

might fakeclaim 1-shot bulletproof fruit vendor if under pressure before claiming mailman, asking mail receivers to act as if i'm a vendor (BP claim subject to scrutiny, not adding to night messages maybe,,,, depending on later and heals well see,,,,, ) i think i can spin the fakeclaim as: scum less likely to nk vendor than mailman, and depending on mail target efficacy, ill havetown folk backing me up after iu reveal it's fake,

I love it!

[Frogsterking]

ii played a game with him, read another game with him. if i understood his mind i would share it better with you. If i gave you a generic profile i would say expect him to go back and forth very fast and be very invested into reads one moment and then move just as quickly to something else, and that his reasoning and logic are very hard to tract often.

I would say maybe best way to find him to be town because i haven't seen his scum game is probably his lack of care of how he is perceived and this early game interactions def gives me feeling he is caring how he looks. idk too early to tell. Early gut scum feels.

This is a bald-faced freaking lie. Fire knows exactly what my scum game looks like: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=88946

I got you some good material. Fire kinda fucked up and now we both look like dingbats.

[Frogsterking]

I'm hoping someone will say we look TvT

[Eiralox]

oof

[Frogsterking]

oof

What's up?

[Frogsterking]

i really dont like ur early townreads on frogsterking and Eiralox

If we're lucky, this causes her to double down on her reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah Aisa linking herself to you two would be nice. We should probably kepe them around.

I'll get around to the thread soon, have sort of skimmed but not read properly yet.

[Frogsterking]

I'm getting my tablet tomorrow by the way, sorry for the delay.

[Frogsterking]

Slight TPR read on Solway Firth.

low

certainty.

[Eiralox]

I don't think I'll be mailbombing Solway, Grib or Firebringer, therefore I'm inclined to include them as early NK candidates. Don't know what ya'll think.

[Eiralox]

Hmmm wait... I think of the three I might remove Grib from that list, will observe. Solway and Fire seem way to sharp for me to see the value of a N1 communikay

[Eiralox]

I don't even remember whether I have any completed forum scum games btw..... if I have they are from 2016. and off-site amateurish and probably 2 at most, at a stretch. probably one or none. So honestly...... if ya'll see me acting in a dumb manner, freely point it out. I might be the weakest link here page-wise, so depending on levels of sus I can do NK's so that Blue can claim VT if wished, and so that Frogster can safely parade as Town Doc.