Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

[Solway Firth]

Herpa derp *towns about*

This post doesnt really fit into my idea of what town frogster looks like.

Agreed. I did have some earlier meta on Frogster but that meta was bad because I don’t have a good picture as to what scum!Frogster looks like. I do think town!Frogster is all over the place in a way that makes some sense and has some demonstrated scumhunting, but posts like this are performative in such a way that plays into the stereotype of town!Frogster being all over the place and scum!Frogster as more reserved.

[Solway Firth]

VOTE: solway

Solway is low posting scum writing longer catchup posts to try and get Townread.

Low

certainty.

What posts would you describe as "long catchup posts"

And what about catching up is more likely to come from scum than town?

It makes the posts easier to write, it makes it easier to avoid faking interactions and it makes it easier to monitor the thread carefully and double check everything your saying. I get the sense that Solway is monitoring the thread very carefully and is being cautious in what he says and I think that combined with lurky + unusual activity in the thread in response to what's happening is more likely to come from scum.

I have not lurked. My activity patterns are based on my schedule and how much I have to do during the day. I have lots of time now to catch up, and that is what I am doing. Tomorrow I won’t be able to post in the evenings, but I will be able to post for in the mid-afternoon but only in the mid-afternoon. That’s just a consequence of my schedule.

[Solway Firth]

I have never been as verbose as I have this game. In fact, I always try to condense my posts into the highest possible density. I’m using this game to see what happens if I flesh out my ideas in the thread as much as I possibly can.

[Solway Firth]

why the hell is there even a wagon on elements.

Because they're quiet and don't cooperate:

Why do you want a list of town reads? So you know who to night kill?

I'm trying to see whether we have any collective insight into the slots which are harder to read. I call it "Town reading by proxy."

Why not ask us about those slots specifically then?

Easy limbait target.

Are you using this post to say that Elements is easy limbait? If not, then do you consider Elements possible limbait? Limbaits tend to be quiet and uncooperative.

[Firebringer]

Spoiler: Shea post

I didn't even use the buzzword of 'overdefensive' that you keep referencing. I said 'Defensive much'. This isn't even a big thing and is certainly not the bulk of what was my response to Eira so why are you focusing on that?

So this is fun, because what I'm doing here is a reaction test called "deliberately weak argument."

Which is where I make a post with a bunch of interaction points in it and one of them is "deliberately weak." I.e. a point thats easily refuted and responded to whereas the others require actual work or analysis.

The reason it is effective is a psychological difference in how town and scum tend to argue, where scum are generally arguing to win an argument and town are generally arguing to discern alignment. Town is very interested in engaging with the actual meat of a post and discussing where the differences lie whereas scum tend to be more interested in discerning alignment.

This is one of the more blatant fails of the deliberately weak argument test that I've ever seen. Obviously you didnt say over defensive, but I fail to see how that is relevant to the questions I asked you which you completely ignored in order to ridicule me for using the wrong turn of phrase.

anyway VOTE: BBT

okay to rephrase and as much as i can steel man this. You argument is that BBT is hyper focused on a specific part of your points that was weakest to win argument (i.e acting bad faith because scum want to win the argument). He isn't engaging in deliberate good faith by engaging your stronger points (what is he doing that is helpful for discerning alignment? why is he being dismissive against Eira),

So i don't feel like i was too much off the mark unless im missing something again here. I said you were scumreading for dismissing/poisoning well, which isn't much different than acting bad faith but also ur using his reaction to show that he isn't engaging in your points and deliberately picking the weakest argument to respond to.

And I just don't read this interaction like that. I read it like You posted a reaction to his posts about his usage of the word defensive and then having following up thoughts to what he was doing and he pointed out he didn't say that and in the context of what he did say it was followed up with question mark. I feel like im getting lawery here or w/e.

I don't see this as right way of looking at engagement. It looks like missing the grass for the mountains or w/e.

[Firebringer]

. I do think town!Frogster is all over the place in a way that makes some sense

need sources

[Solway Firth]

I am fully caught up. My most confident scumread right now is BBT.

[Thestatusquo]

Spoiler: Shea post

I didn't even use the buzzword of 'overdefensive' that you keep referencing. I said 'Defensive much'. This isn't even a big thing and is certainly not the bulk of what was my response to Eira so why are you focusing on that?

So this is fun, because what I'm doing here is a reaction test called "deliberately weak argument."

Which is where I make a post with a bunch of interaction points in it and one of them is "deliberately weak." I.e. a point thats easily refuted and responded to whereas the others require actual work or analysis.

The reason it is effective is a psychological difference in how town and scum tend to argue, where scum are generally arguing to win an argument and town are generally arguing to discern alignment. Town is very interested in engaging with the actual meat of a post and discussing where the differences lie whereas scum tend to be more interested in discerning alignment.

This is one of the more blatant fails of the deliberately weak argument test that I've ever seen. Obviously you didnt say over defensive, but I fail to see how that is relevant to the questions I asked you which you completely ignored in order to ridicule me for using the wrong turn of phrase.

anyway VOTE: BBT

okay to rephrase and as much as i can steel man this. You argument is that BBT is hyper focused on a specific part of your points that was weakest to win argument (i.e acting bad faith because scum want to win the argument). He isn't engaging in deliberate good faith by engaging your stronger points (what is he doing that is helpful for discerning alignment? why is he being dismissive against Eira),

So i don't feel like i was too much off the mark unless im missing something again here. I said you were scumreading for dismissing/poisoning well, which isn't much different than acting bad faith but also ur using his reaction to show that he isn't engaging in your points and deliberately picking the weakest argument to respond to.

And I just don't read this interaction like that. I read it like You posted a reaction to his posts about his usage of the word defensive and then having following up thoughts to what he was doing and he pointed out he didn't say that and in the context of what he did say it was followed up with question mark. I feel like im getting lawery here or w/e.

I don't see this as right way of looking at engagement. It looks like missing the grass for the mountains or w/e.

this is just like...literally not what happened. Like its so much not what happened that I am questioning if you've even read any of it?

[Thestatusquo]

I should really really be digesting what shea was posting. But its friday and ive been running on like 3-4 hours of sleep each night this week. Very bad.

Anyways just want to say and i think i might too much in to a tunnely mode when i say this but post 572 felt like a post scum would make to over explain and justify moving to BBT. I feel like town response would been like TSQ has a point here, i am fine voting BBT.
Then voted

Now i want to say if she did THAT i might still see it in scummy manner. So maybe again im in tunnel mode.

As it so happens I agree.

[Thestatusquo]

I am fully caught up. My most confident scumread right now is BBT.

Then why aren't you voting there? Why are you ignoring my questions?

[Not_Mafia]

Someone quote a post they want me to respond to

[Solway Firth]

I am fully caught up. My most confident scumread right now is BBT.

Then why aren't you voting there? Why are you ignoring my questions?

I’m pretty sure I responded to your questions, unless I’m missing something. I’m not voting BBT because I don’t scumread BBT enough to vote him.

[Elements]

Don't like that

[Thestatusquo]

Spoiler: Shea post

I didn't even use the buzzword of 'overdefensive' that you keep referencing. I said 'Defensive much'. This isn't even a big thing and is certainly not the bulk of what was my response to Eira so why are you focusing on that?

So this is fun, because what I'm doing here is a reaction test called "deliberately weak argument."

Which is where I make a post with a bunch of interaction points in it and one of them is "deliberately weak." I.e. a point thats easily refuted and responded to whereas the others require actual work or analysis.

The reason it is effective is a psychological difference in how town and scum tend to argue, where scum are generally arguing to win an argument and town are generally arguing to discern alignment. Town is very interested in engaging with the actual meat of a post and discussing where the differences lie whereas scum tend to be more interested in discerning alignment.

This is one of the more blatant fails of the deliberately weak argument test that I've ever seen. Obviously you didnt say over defensive, but I fail to see how that is relevant to the questions I asked you which you completely ignored in order to ridicule me for using the wrong turn of phrase.

anyway VOTE: BBT

okay to rephrase and as much as i can steel man this. You argument is that BBT is hyper focused on a specific part of your points that was weakest to win argument (i.e acting bad faith because scum want to win the argument). He isn't engaging in deliberate good faith by engaging your stronger points (what is he doing that is helpful for discerning alignment? why is he being dismissive against Eira),

So i don't feel like i was too much off the mark unless im missing something again here. I said you were scumreading for dismissing/poisoning well, which isn't much different than acting bad faith but also ur using his reaction to show that he isn't engaging in your points and deliberately picking the weakest argument to respond to.

And I just don't read this interaction like that. I read it like You posted a reaction to his posts about his usage of the word defensive and then having following up thoughts to what he was doing and he pointed out he didn't say that and in the context of what he did say it was followed up with question mark. I feel like im getting lawery here or w/e.

I don't see this as right way of looking at engagement. It looks like missing the grass for the mountains or w/e.

this is just like...literally not what happened. Like its so much not what happened that I am questioning if you've even read any of it?

Like I deliberately in real time did a reaction test which I have used before which is you deliberately make a post that has a bunch of questions points in it and in those questions and points you deliberately include one that is either not true or easily defeated. Generally reactions will be on a sliding scale but the basis of it is that scum psychologically are more interested in winning the argument than they are discerning alignment, and town are the opposite. Town does want to win the argument too which is why its a sliding scale sort of thing.

The reaction to that was to respond to specifically the weak part of my post and not the parts that would be useful for alignment discovery. And an attempt to discredit me.

Like you're making it sound like I'm just saying on the balance I felt like BBT was not responding to me in good faith and I think that misses the fundamental justification for my point and for this scum tell as a whole.

So the argument can be represented syllogistically like this

1) Scum are more likely to focus on winning the argument than discerning alignment.
2) In a post with multiple points to answer scum will be more likely to focus on the easiest points to dismiss in an attempt to discredit.
3) Town will tend to do the opposite.
4) BBT didn't address the rest of my points at all and focused exclusively on the deliberately weak one
5) Therefore BBT is more likely to be scum.

Which of those points do you disagree with, exaclty?

[Thestatusquo]

I am fully caught up. My most confident scumread right now is BBT.

Then why aren't you voting there? Why are you ignoring my questions?

I’m pretty sure I responded to your questions, unless I’m missing something. I’m not voting BBT because I don’t scumread BBT enough to vote him.

You said they're you're highest scum read????

[Elements]

TSQ what do you think about a BBT, Aisa, SF scum team?

[Elements]

I think it fits but is just way too obvious

[Thestatusquo]

I think its extremely plausible.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not super interested in team solving day 1 though.

[Elements]

Someone quote a post they want me to respond to

NM is my biggest scum read

[Thestatusquo]

btw I'm still not quite sure why N_M is allowed to play mafia given that every time I've been in a game with him he does not in fact in any way play mafia.

Not entirely sure what he gets out of just lurking out every game he's in all the time.

[Firebringer]

this is just like...literally not what happened. Like its so much not what happened that I am questioning if you've even read any of it?

i feel like im being gaslight but idc anymore. Ill just take ur word for it that i don't even know what im talking about. too sleep deprived to make sense of a lot and takes me reading sentences 2-3 times to process

I think BBT is town but im not dying on some hill here so won't argue with u anymore on it. I don't scream and shout for townreads day 1 anymore. Its a waste of energy which im already lacking.

[Firebringer]

1) Scum are more likely to focus on winning the argument than discerning alignment.
2) In a post with multiple points to answer scum will be more likely to focus on the easiest points to dismiss in an attempt to discredit.
3) Town will tend to do the opposite.
4) BBT didn't address the rest of my points at all and focused exclusively on the deliberately weak one
5) Therefore BBT is more likely to be scum.

ugh why am i responding.
okay so i am disagreeing with point 2 and think almost anyone does that. Thats kind of what makes arguments go on forever as people will just find the easiest point to focus on, i agree with point 1 to a greater extend in that i think town when not put on the trial are more likely just trying to figure out what is going on instead of just looking better (winning argument for crowd) but i know a lot of situations when i argue with someone it will just be focusing on simple points that are kind of irrelevant to the bigger picture.

anyways i saw the interaction as u were applying pressure to BBT, he didn't care to engage with it and just commented u were off base from where u originally started and he obviously missed every other point because he didn't want to engage with any of else because that requires more effort/ or willingness to engage which he didn't have and i don't think that was scummy.

I could be reading it too favorably to BBT. W/e. We disagree but i obviously read your posts in very different light than maybe even BBT sees it so maybe im putting myself in BBT shoes too much instead of thinking what does BBT really think here.

If it was me and u getting into this argument instead of BBT i probably would have spent pages arguing with u anyways. So he def not me

[Firebringer]

well at least i feel less sus of you now then before. Good didn't want to have to try to lim you in this game. That would take too much effort

[Firebringer]

Someone quote a post they want me to respond to

Sheep me buddy, you owe me for voting me that one time when u were scum.
Now im calling in the u owe me card