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[Ausuka]

idk this game is hard

[Ausuka]

like i should let fire respond maybe but i understand their pov in being ok with death

but also like i wouldn't be surprised if they actually were angling for dv to die instead so like

shrug

[Dannflor]

I understand the pov i suppose but I don't think it is genuine

[Titus]

VOTE: DV

[fireisredsir]

There's important VCs I need to revisit from when DV was a wagon. however I kinda gutfeel obscure wouldn't spend all his time tunneling and calling out a partner on principle

idk why he wouldn't when he had little to no thread influence, nobody really paid attention to his dv suspicion and he never really led a push there

he's clearly at least a competent scum player and would probably know that's a fine thing to do to set a partner up to endgame

[fireisredsir]

why does he hop off there as scum?

idk tbh, show that he's willing to vote there but not actually want to leave his vote there while he's gone from the thread?

like you could argue he'd want to leave it there if he knew hem was going to claim at some point but maybe that wasn't the plan yet, or maybe they knew that hem was going to have to leave thread too, or maybe he thought when he voted that hem was ready to claim and he actually didn't want to yet

but i think it's a weird interaction to come from town so

I think the obvious explanation here is that I wanted hem to claim but wasn’t comfortable leaving it in hammer range while I was away for an extended period of time?

How is that weird?

its weird bc it doesn't really feel like that at all? like you voted after he said no to claiming and then unvoted right away. the vote didn't add any pressure bc you didn't like ask again to claim or anything, you just unvoted

i don't get what the point of voting was

[fireisredsir]

I understand being down on yourself for having bad reads or not being obv town enough or some other reason

I understand not wanting to fight your own elimination if you think the game isn't that hard anyway

to an extent

but I still think fire is just all *too* willing to let himself be eliminated and I can't shake the feeling he is trying to look town more than he actually believes that its fine if he goes here

I had the same feeling last day phase and I feel like he should have at least a twinge more urgency to not be eliminated now that we're one day closer to lylo and... I don't see it

i mean i would rather not die but like idk what you expect me to do

im surprised ive lived this long i was like begging for death a month ago

i kinda feel like I've outstayed my welcome and like multiple people who i think are town have been stuck on me for days and maybe if i died then they'd be able to solve better

im not like that down on myself rn or even really thinking the game is that easy. i just, like, accept that there's not really anything i can say that will convince people im town. and that probably the most useful thing i can do is try to figure out who i think is scum since im a day ahead of the rest of you, and i won't be here to talk things out then

and like maybe this is dumb but part of me kinda thinks it would just be bad play for town to let me live here so like

its kinda hard for me to encourage that

i fundamentally disagree with the people who believe that every town is findable as town in every game if you just post enough or analyze enough

[Thestatusquo]

Honestly the only person I really think is scum is titus and that's literal crazy talk so...

[Dannflor]

im not like that down on myself rn or even really thinking the game is that easy. i just, like, accept that there's not really anything i can say that will convince people im town.

I guess I'm just surprised you haven't even tried to town case yourself? like not once?

Like. This does not ring true to me because OBVIOUSLY there are reasons to town read you.

there is a reason we voted Frogster over you yesterday. there is a reason that guilty lion town reads you or at least has town read you. there is a reason Shea doesn't think you're scum.

this defeatism *does not* make sense from a town perspective. I think that you think this is the towniest thing you can do right now but it literally does not make sense.

people have a variety of reasons to town read you as they do with everyone in the game. I have kept coming back to you as scum but there have definitely been times where I've talked myself out of it as well. It feels like you're hoping people will talk themselves out of it when you say stuff like this because clearly multiple people in this game have shown the propensity to do so??? And for you to straight up not acknowledge that feels more LAMIST then it does actually townie, because I think you would acknowledge the reality of the game which is that while yes the game is very hard it is hard precisely because it is not obvious who the scum is. the reality of the game is that if you argued hard that you were town you would probably survive this round. because people are looking for reasons to change their mind. and instead of appealing to that directly you are going about it by saying shit like "there's nothing I can do" which feels like a much more manipulative way to appeal to people without actually look like you're doing that. And I don't think you would care about that at all as town

Like you are not doomed here? There is no damnable evidence or associatives that tie you to scum in a definitive way, if there was you would have died a month ago. so I don't get why you say there's nothing you can do to convince people you aren't scum. you did yesterday. why not today? no one has been tunneling you except for frogster? and frogster is dead now

[Thestatusquo]

Do you think fireisred was playing this way yesterday too, dann?

[Dannflor]

yes

[Dannflor]

it's been "elim me and frogster" and now it's "elim me and DV" and I do think town!fire would feel bad about getting frogster wrong but I don't think he'd go back to the exact same pattern of play

[fireisredsir]

i don't really have a good towncase for myself but i can try if you want me to ig

[Thestatusquo]

I think Fire pushed for a frogster lim decently hard yesterday.

I guess he's kind of doing the same with DV here.

I guess I'm just noting a difference in rhetoric and action here which is familiar to me because its very much what I was doing earlier in this game when I self voted myself to try to demonstrate how I was willing to lim myself to get out of the way.

I was performatively trying to look townie while trying to push the town towards limming the people I thought were scum if we didnt end up going for me.

It feels like maybe fireisred is being performative in the same way to me here. I'm not saying I'm town reading them but I think that difference in rhetoric and action is important and I know for a fact that perfomatively LAMISTing as town is something town sometimes do because I did it myself this game.

IDK.

[fireisredsir]

the reality of the game is that if you argued hard that you were town you would probably survive this round. because people are looking for reasons to change their mind.

i just don't really see it that way

like i don't think im being defeatist its just survival is not really my mindset here?? which ik you're going to say is lamist but its true

but ig its true that (maybe cocky) i do believe that if i were scum in this position i would win. and i would probably go about that, in part, by towncasing myself. so maybe it's worth it to play like i could if i were scum in order to survive bc then maybe we'll lim who i think is scum instead? like yea i guess i could do that

i just hate strongarming things so i really don't want to but i guess it's part of the game

[Thestatusquo]

That being said there feels like an...idk it feels like fire is pushing people because he knows he'd be expected to push people but it feels like theres not that much actual attempt to solve the game in the sense that there seems like there's very little curiosity about people's alignment outside of DVs just like yesterday there seemed like very little curiosity in peoples alignment outside of frogster.

Like its simultaneously projecting confidence and lack of confidence and that's what's really bugging me about it.

Like it looks like fireisred cased DV because he knew he had to push someone and went back and found a bunch of stuff that look bad for DV and it feels like thats the kind of same thing he did yesterday with frogster, but why arent we considering other options outside of just casing one person?

[fireisredsir]

i think my reasons to townread everyone else are good

i didn't revisit my reasons to townread dv yesterday bc i was focused on frog and that was a mistake

[Thestatusquo]

i think my reasons to townread everyone else are good

i didn't revisit my reasons to townread dv yesterday bc i was focused on frog and that was a mistake

So you decided to follow that up by making the same mistake today on the rest of the game?

[Thestatusquo]

Like how is your play today wrt DV different substantively from your play yesterday with frogster? Are you saying you went back and looked at everyone else and found lots of reasons to town read them and then didn't feel the need to share that? Would that not be part of why you would think DV was scum?

[fireisredsir]

i did already talk about how i revisited everyone else and reaffirmed my reasons to townread them, yes

[fireisredsir]

and yes that would be part of why i think dv is scum which is why i talked about it

and no it would not be the same mistake as last time bc i did it this time

[Dannflor]

i do still feel like a lot of the stuff with GL is kinda sus, but a big part of it also was how he handled HEM vs obscure, and that just reads as a lot more uninformed knowing that both were actually scum rather than just obscure. he'd probably be my second choice tho

shea i just don't think is scum. i don't really want to get into it. ik he's next in the poe but i don't think my reasons will convince anyone not to flip him anyway so whatever

ok

can you actually get into your read on shea? I feel like it's important if you're town

also like saying GL is kinda sus and he's your second choice doesn't seem congruent with how you're behaving this phase

[Thestatusquo]

but ig its true that (maybe cocky) i do believe that if i were scum in this position i would win

This feels a little bit like a lie to me, or at the very least is incongruous with every other way you've presented yourself in terms of your confidence and mindset and worldview this game.

[Dannflor]

are congruous and congruent the same word

[Thestatusquo]

I mean simply put I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be feeling very good about my position here if I were scum and I feel like fireisred would be in an even worse position than scum!me hypothetically so I find that statement a little hard to believe.