Warrior Cats Mafia [Game Over!]

[Mistyx]

Catboi is probably just wrong town tbh. I strongly TR him in spire of everything because I understand why someone would SR me for my weird playstyle. But with me, you gotta look at the motivation behind my posts.

can you elaborate on that townread?

I read through his walls and imo the reasoning within them is uninformed rather than informed and bent towards a conclusion he already knows.

give me some examples please

i'm not really convinced this isn't conclusion first

[SCRRRDBEAR]

Catboi is probably just wrong town tbh. I strongly TR him in spire of everything because I understand why someone would SR me for my weird playstyle. But with me, you gotta look at the motivation behind my posts.

can you elaborate on that townread?

I read through his walls and imo the reasoning within them is uninformed rather than informed and bent towards a conclusion he already knows.

give me some examples please

i'm not really convinced this isn't conclusion first

GOOD POST. ASSERTIVE WITHOUT BEING RUDE. KITTYTAC DESERVES QUESTIONING IMO.

[Cephrir]

I really don’t agree with person rewrites posts a few times and decides to be concise and is therefore scum.
I would have accepted Bell wasn’t posting with an internal timer which led to the change. But the reasoning just doesn’t reach the truth in this case.

this... isn't what fire said? so it's just a strange way of phrasing a defense?

[SCRRRDBEAR]

I really don’t agree with person rewrites posts a few times and decides to be concise and is therefore scum.
I would have accepted Bell wasn’t posting with an internal timer which led to the change. But the reasoning just doesn’t reach the truth in this case.

this... isn't what fire said? so it's just a strange way of phrasing a defense?

CAN YOU LINK THE POSTS YOU FEEL ARE AI BETWEEN YOU AND BELL SO THE REST OF THE THREAD CAN TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU TWO ARE BICKERING ABOUT?

[DkKoba]

Shiidaji has been prodded

[Cephrir]

Yes because this is my fucking town playstyle and now I'm being wagoned by someone who never played with me. I legit had nothing to add to the case, why on Earth would I say something else?

why so mad? it's like 3 or 4 votes

[fireisredsir]

I really don’t agree with person rewrites posts a few times and decides to be concise and is therefore scum.
I would have accepted Bell wasn’t posting with an internal timer which led to the change. But the reasoning just doesn’t reach the truth in this case.

i mean i can only see the result and it looks more like how you usually play scum and it's noticeably lacking the like clear thought process im used to seeing when you're town

i don't know that you decided to be more concise, i don't know what an internal timer means, i can't see inside your head and thats like kinda the issue here bc usually you make that easy when you're town

are you saying this is an intentional playstyle shift from you?

[Something_Smart]

I do not have that passive yet. My PM mentioned nothing about leaders but left open the possibility they exist.

My thinking (which is now likely wrong), each PT had one apprentice, one warrior, one protector and one ?. I am a protector myself.

I think this is town also but I don't have to like it

[SCRRRDBEAR]

I do not have that passive yet. My PM mentioned nothing about leaders but left open the possibility they exist.

My thinking (which is now likely wrong), each PT had one apprentice, one warrior, one protector and one ?. I am a protector myself.

I think this is town also but I don't have to like it

NOTED.

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: kittytacky

I've had a long day at work and haven't had time to read the whole thread properly but that kittytacky post is the worst I've seen in this game by quite a bit.

I've had a long day at work and haven't had time to read the whole thread properly but that kittytacky post is the worst I've seen in this game by quite a bit.

the worst? how so?

its a bunch of quote stripes followed by one-liners with no thought put into them, half of them don't even say anything important, and he ends it with a really obviously opportunistic vote on half baked reasoning - just "I'm convinced" and absolutely nothing more which doesn't feel like he had real thoughts about norwee's alignment at all

It's about the most classically newbscum post you'll ever see

If you ever played with me, that's how I play as town lol. Lots of one-liners. I'm struggling to adapt to this post restriction. And if I legit had nothing to add to a case I agreed with, what would I say besides "I agree"? Sheeping is not scummy.

i like catboi's posting on this page quite a bit more than previous stuff which is a nice surprise. not enough to lean town yet but im less worried there i think

kitty doesn't feel scummy in quite the same way that he felt scummy when i played with him when he was scum but he still feels kinda scummy so sure

VOTE: kittytacky

Yes because this is my fucking town playstyle and now I'm being wagoned by someone who never played with me. I legit had nothing to add to the case, why on Earth would I say something else?

can you talk about what specifically of the norwee case you found compelling? like what points stood out that you connected to?

[fireisredsir]

also i don't think you really have to worry about the post restriction, you have 13 posts lol. just play normally and you're never gonna hit 200 posts in a day

getting more engaged is like the ideal result of a wagon, thats kinda the goal, to see how the person responds to pressure. and i do think your response feels townier than your response to pressure in turing test

VOTE: marashu

[Alisae]

I'm struggling to adapt to this post restriction.

I'm legit trying but it's hard. I also never played a large theme before.

So like, are you just lying?
Because I don't believe you considering at a cursory look at your games where you don't even break past 200 posts in COMPLETED GAMES and we're only in d1.. Like, there are players in here that post way way more but you're the one that's struggling??? Like, 200 is such a lenient post cap I don't see how anyone can struggle as long as they show some restraint and like, actually post with purpose.

[Alisae]

But with me, you gotta look at the motivation behind my posts.

So...you're scum? If I look at what you post and what I think your motivation could be, the first thing I think is that your Norwee vote is comes from scum who is either working with mastina or hiding behind her which is something that would realistically make sense in a gamestate where town!norwee is true, which to me, it is?

[Alisae]

I don’t understand Alisse well, but currently. I’m neutral to lean town on them, I think.
Their engagement style conflicts with what I think scum would do. But I can’t quite articulate why.

I am going to have to ask you to move your vote that is currently on Norwee. If you trust mastina's 97.5% read on Norwee, then you should be trusting me 100% tr on Norwee as the player who is probably the best player at the table at reading him, ESPECIALLY because I have a hood with him.

[KittyTacky]

Catboi is probably just wrong town tbh. I strongly TR him in spire of everything because I understand why someone would SR me for my weird playstyle. But with me, you gotta look at the motivation behind my posts.

can you elaborate on that townread?

I read through his walls and imo the reasoning within them is uninformed rather than informed and bent towards a conclusion he already knows.

give me some examples please

i'm not really convinced this isn't conclusion first

I particularly like this post's vibe.

Rookie scum mistake to overreact to me expression my feelings on a fos.
Like do you self-consciously believe that a case was like coming onto you??? That's what I think is going on in the head of scum!you.
I did not vote you, and I asked Ceph "is this actually scum, or am I just reading everything as scummy"
But I am advancing a case on you???

Like, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Newer player rands wolf.
Newer player starts to feel like they are being suspected
Newer player overeacts and attacks the person in response to suspecting them
The person in return attacks them harder because the newer player is acting unnatural and unreasonably to the attacker.

i don't really understand what about this makes val scum tbh
like this narrative is one that could have happened if he was scum, but what makes you think that's most likely? what about it is not believable as coming from town?

Exactly, fire.

You'd know exactly the sort of reaction I think this is and why it's scum from you having made this sort of reaction when you were scum.

I think Alisae is scum here for similar reasons I thought your reaction to my claim made you scum. It's not

identical

, but it's

similar

--Alisae's reaction is overblown. Alisae's reaction is disproportionate. Alisae's reaction was a snap-reaction that was fairly OMGUSy. Sound familiar to you?

Because to me those are the hallmarks of scum that made a somewhat-panicked snap-decision to react to a town player hitting a nerve.

A town-Alisae WOULD put thought into how it could come from town. A town-Alisae would know the narrative was wrong, but not know that it came from scum. The instant judgement of Val being scum is incredibly damning for Alisae as being Alisae as scum having made a bit of an impulsive reaction that e wouldn't have made as town.

Yes, I know Alisae is impulsive regardless of alignment.
Yes, I know Alisae is reactive regardless of alignment.
Yes, I know Alisae can make OMGUSy moves as town.
Yes, I know Alisae can make snap-decisions and instantly come to a conclusion.

But there's a difference between 'can', and 'would'.

I believe a town-Alisae would not have the impulse to overreact to Val and instantly pivot to the OMGUSy push there. A town-Alisae might react to it, but not in the way e did.

I think there's a world of difference between the scenario from datisi's cafe that you're talking about and this game. In that game fire's reaction was to a

faked guilty

which carries a significant degree of weight to it - people are very likely to vote you for it and you can't really ignore it. Scum panicking and overreacting in that scenario is very understandable. By comparison a singular vote on Day 1 carries not much weight at all - it wasn't like val's case was particularly likely to get alisae killed on its own so I don't believe they would overreact in such a panicky way as scum. I

would

buy it if this was being done by a more raw or inexperienced player who would be more likely to feel threatened by minor suspicion. But someone who is actually good at scum knows 1 vote on day 1 doesn't mean all that much and isn't going to overreact. I just don't buy the argument that "alisae panicked because val was close to the truth", because my impression of alisae's scumgame is that they are significantly

less

impulsive (although this is secondhand knowledge). They might

fake

being impulsive since it's what people expect of them but a move like that doesn't strike me as particularly considered or tactical.

I also think describing it as "instantly pivoting" to an OMGUS doesn't really sum things up accurately - alisae had clearly shown suspicion of val prior to that point, and the response to val was an escalation of the read rather a sudden change of any sort. I think in particular the expression of "Rookie scum mistake to overreact to me expression my feelings on a fos" feels way more likely to come from town who feels like they've caught scum out with their suspicion and have baited them into a scummy response. I think it comes from a place of alisae having confidence in their own innocence and believing val's attack on them had no validity and must be coming from scum rather than any sort of survival instinct.

Yes because this is my fucking town playstyle and now I'm being wagoned by someone who never played with me. I legit had nothing to add to the case, why on Earth would I say something else?

why so mad? it's like 3 or 4 votes

It grew fast and I got scared.

VOTE: kittytacky

I've had a long day at work and haven't had time to read the whole thread properly but that kittytacky post is the worst I've seen in this game by quite a bit.

I've had a long day at work and haven't had time to read the whole thread properly but that kittytacky post is the worst I've seen in this game by quite a bit.

the worst? how so?

its a bunch of quote stripes followed by one-liners with no thought put into them, half of them don't even say anything important, and he ends it with a really obviously opportunistic vote on half baked reasoning - just "I'm convinced" and absolutely nothing more which doesn't feel like he had real thoughts about norwee's alignment at all

It's about the most classically newbscum post you'll ever see

If you ever played with me, that's how I play as town lol. Lots of one-liners. I'm struggling to adapt to this post restriction. And if I legit had nothing to add to a case I agreed with, what would I say besides "I agree"? Sheeping is not scummy.

i like catboi's posting on this page quite a bit more than previous stuff which is a nice surprise. not enough to lean town yet but im less worried there i think

kitty doesn't feel scummy in quite the same way that he felt scummy when i played with him when he was scum but he still feels kinda scummy so sure

VOTE: kittytacky

Yes because this is my fucking town playstyle and now I'm being wagoned by someone who never played with me. I legit had nothing to add to the case, why on Earth would I say something else?

can you talk about what specifically of the norwee case you found compelling? like what points stood out that you connected to?

I don’t want to believe Alisae is scum becauve they’ve been so helpful to me and seemed genuinely trying to solve me.

On the Norwee side of things I'm like 97.5% certain that this is Norwee's style of interacting with scumbuddies, especially when given a neighborhood with them. I swear that I've seen this verbatim from Norwee when Norwee was scum talking about a scumbuddy, but not seen once when Norwee was town.

I wish I could remember where so I could track it down, but like: I am

very

sure about this.

I got reminded of one of my first games that I remember well, Baseball I think, where Norwee was scum and they played pretty similar to how they play here. I think Alisae is pretty scummy too tbh.

I'm struggling to adapt to this post restriction.

I'm legit trying but it's hard. I also never played a large theme before.

So like, are you just lying?
Because I don't believe you considering at a cursory look at your games where you don't even break past 200 posts in COMPLETED GAMES and we're only in d1.. Like, there are players in here that post way way more but you're the one that's struggling??? Like, 200 is such a lenient post cap I don't see how anyone can struggle as long as they show some restraint and like, actually post with purpose.

1. It's a psychological effect.
2. Normally I do a lot of stream-of-consciousness posting that takes up a lot of posts, I can assure you I'd have made like 100+ posts if I played like I usually do.

But with me, you gotta look at the motivation behind my posts.

So...you're scum? If I look at what you post and what I think your motivation could be, the first thing I think is that your Norwee vote is comes from scum who is either working with mastina or hiding behind her which is something that would realistically make sense in a gamestate where town!norwee is true, which to me, it is?

Why is this your first conclusion instead of me just... sheeping a case that makes sense to me?

Trying to eliminate someone vulnerable pushing your scumbuddy?

[KittyTacky]

There's almost surely at least 1 scum in {Charloux, Alisae, Norwe}. Maybe 2.

[Alisae]

1. It's a psychological effect.
2. Normally I do a lot of stream-of-consciousness posting that takes up a lot of posts, I can assure you I'd have made like 100+ posts if I played like I usually do.

Ok but like, what you're saying, and what is like, happening, is like, completely opposite of each other and actions say more about a person than what they say so...

--

Why is this your first conclusion instead of me just... sheeping a case that makes sense to me?

Trying to eliminate someone vulnerable pushing your scumbuddy?

Because I'm town and Norwee is also town???
How are these questions real things being asked??? You think you are sheeping something that makes sense and I think you are using that to justify hiding behind mastina.

[Charloux]

Alisae

Spoiler:

The first thing that stands out is the situation with Val. Don't really agree with post 261; But i can totally see how things said in post 279 could come from a scummy mindset.

nothing is happening and honestly I am wasting posts by posting this post and the post before it where I told bear that his datisi scumread is wrong!!!

How was nothing happening? Did you expect a dayvigi kill or something? This is nai, i'm just curious.

I also don’t intend to argue with all that text. You’ll either realize you’re wrong or i can die. I don’t rly care. I signed up to play with Alisae not get stressed out by the game. That’s why i’ll keep posting all of my thoughts almost exlusively in hood.

glgl convincing ne this is scum u just cant its not possible.
--

why is that the only vote you seem to care about?

I probably SHOULDN'T answer for Norwee, and this might not be Norwee's answer, but if I can provide imput as someone who has been fos' by mastina a lot, being pushed my mastina is pretty triggering due to her rhetoric and just how she is?
i've felt this way in the past, and understanding Norwee as a person, I would say that him feeling that way is just, valid?
I wouldn't say it's an alignment indicative thing but I'll provide a nugget ig. If we were scum together I would probably just tell Norwee in a private topic to just not engage, just makes more sense not to. It's not like people are going to let mastina influence their actions or read her posts. Engaging doesn't do anything, if anything, probably makes mastina look more credible, and wastes posts. Like she's just not worth it lmfao

From a perspective of someone who doesn't know the history between Alisae and norwegian this feels pretty iffy to me.

Townlean

for now. Don't really have a strong opinion on the other posts.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KittyTacky

Spoiler:

I could talk why he is scummy but i don't like parroting so here

anyway, i like the reasoning for kittytacky being scum. upon my skim, i skipped that post because big post, but when i got back to it... it really did not say anything, huh. and the fact that he took the time to photoshop my avatar onto a clam (and photoshop it kind of *well*, considering the white pixels are barely visible), rather than, you know, do things in the game... yeah. it kind of reminds me of that one thing i did in smuggler's, where i also tried to be funny by posting an image instead of like, y'know, doing things. also, scr

Adding to this i find his vote on me terribly opportunistic

Scum

read
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I give up, just can't force myself to check everybody's ISO and the posts that connect to each of their posts.
1-2 people a day i find most noteworthy should be doable

[Alisae]

How was nothing happening? Did you expect a dayvigi kill or something? This is nai, i'm just curious.

No I didn't expect anything caused by any abilities in the game, what I mean by nothing is happening is like there are people posting but it's mostly the same people and none of what actually happened furthered the gamestate.

--

Anyway, I am curious to hear a deeper take on some of the things I've said in 261 and 279.

--

From a perspective of someone who doesn't know the history between Alisae and norwegian this feels pretty iffy to me.

I am without a doubt the best player on the table to read the player???
- I have lots of games with him. We've been town together, we've been scum together, and we've been oppositely aligned before.
- He LITERALLY came out of his way to play with me. It makes sense, it's been awhile and I just came back from a 1 year vacation.
- I have an understanding of how he is as a person based on things he how he has acted before and past experiences. We've hydra'd before and that gave me a good idea into his thought processes at the time.
- I have a neighborhood with him. In this neighborhood, he is posting his thoughts. I have access to these thoughts.

Like, what is there to be iffy about???

[KittyTacky]

1. It's a psychological effect.
2. Normally I do a lot of stream-of-consciousness posting that takes up a lot of posts, I can assure you I'd have made like 100+ posts if I played like I usually do.

Ok but like, what you're saying, and what is like, happening, is like, completely opposite of each other and actions say more about a person than what they say so...

--

Why is this your first conclusion instead of me just... sheeping a case that makes sense to me?

Trying to eliminate someone vulnerable pushing your scumbuddy?

Because I'm town and Norwee is also town???
How are these questions real things being asked??? You think you are sheeping something that makes sense and I think you are using that to justify hiding behind mastina.

1. How? I explained why I feel the post restriction stifles me a bit, even if it's mostly a mental pressure thing.
2. Explain why you think Norwee is town.

[Alisae]

lmao ok I’m done talking to you goodbye
VOTE: kittyTacky

[Cephrir]

zzzzz

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think Alisae is town.
Alisae thinks i am town.
Val thinks it’s really unlikely for me/Alisae team.

So what? We’re all scum saving each others ass?
Just do the math and back off.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If anyone wants to take closer look at Windclan i’m all for it. We got two members that haven’t done anything. Safe to say that i’m feeling more sus about those slots even if there is nothing concrete i got on them. But i townread the active members of my clan way more.

[Charloux]

Anyway, I am curious to hear a deeper take on some of the things I've said in 261 and 279.

Spoiler:

153 I hate. The posture (facesit, are either of these words even the right word) between SS and Bell just reads wolf.

167 also just reads like scumposting...

Honestly even the vote on bell now that I am reading the context around it...

WindClan activity seems weirdge for them as well
They wanted to go after Misty for 175.
They also said they don't see any reason behind the bear's reads.
He asks Norwee if he feels that he is on the same page I am and here I am going ??? because like what kind of question is that???

Is this scum or am I reading a lot of the things he does as just scummy?

I'm not sure I buy bell's explanation, and I'm also reading an twinge of complaint in SS's 31 regarding the mod having potentially screwed over dark forest - and I don't understand why there would be "a hard time parsing this from any alignment." If you are Starclan, there is no need for a sample PM, because the sample PM is sitting in your inbox, no?

Nobody else seems to have had any trouble, and, while yes, I can see how being simultaneously a member of Starclan + a neighbourhood clan might be a source of potential confusion; I am wondering how it is possible to confirm in reply to the role PM ones "role and alignment" whilst that confusion remains. Surely you sort that out there and then while confirming?

What am I missing?

I don't understand why you hate it, but i do understand that you hate it. He made a conjecture based on the info he had(Like i did), nothing more nothing less.

And I don't think confirming role + alignment rules out clan confusion; it's usually easy to tell alignment from coloring + lack of partners/obvious scum info, even if you don't fully understand the factions or the wincon.

It may be obvious from the colouring + lack of partners that your role pm is one belonging to the uninformed majority, but if you were in possession of such, you would also have (and I assume it's acceptable to quote directly now it is given publicly) the wincon given to starclan -

"You and all other members of the protectors of StarClan win when all Dark Forest cats have been eliminated."

- which is patently clear on the issue bell expressed confusion about.

Shading others while boasting about the knowledge town should have, passively implying he is town - check

That's my hypothesis - that scum!bell was trying to replicate that selfmeta of 'derping about set up early game and asking the most basic questions that are usually also “town slippy”' without access to a critical piece of information - how the wincon was presented to starclan; and thus failing to realise there was zero, none, nada ambiguity there to 'town slip' over. I don't buy the post-sample explanation that starclan!bell thought "dark forest cats" was some larger descriptor for two or more scum clans without also believing that starclan was some larger descriptor for the town clans, and thus windclan, thunderclan, etc to be pure; and that's never going to pass review. It's nonsensical.

The hypothesis makes sense, but overselling it is scummy imo

I can easily see town!SS realising this situation has only arisen because of the lack of a publicly posted sample PM, and thus suffer some sort of second-hand guilt on behalf of the dark forest for having a member outed so early over what is arguably a mod mistake, but why defend him now?

Answering his on question at the end but not forgetting some more shading - check

From a perspective of someone who doesn't know the history between Alisae and norwegian this feels pretty iffy to me.

I am without a doubt the best player on the table to read the player???
- I have lots of games with him. We've been town together, we've been scum together, and we've been oppositely aligned before.
- He LITERALLY came out of his way to play with me. It makes sense, it's been awhile and I just came back from a 1 year vacation.
- I have an understanding of how he is as a person based on things he how he has acted before and past experiences. We've hydra'd before and that gave me a good idea into his thought processes at the time.
- I have a neighborhood with him. In this neighborhood, he is posting his thoughts. I have access to these thoughts.

Like, what is there to be iffy about???

That's why i said from the perspective of someone who doesn't know the history between you two.
I can see you both white-knighting him as well as pocketing him.

This was hell posting on the phone