In post 1098, Eiralox wrote:[
Yeah im tired discussing my feel on you with toffee, what I said d1 still stands so where at first I humored them, now im just going to flat out ignore them if they keep tunneling into me like this.
Theyve been like hyper focused on it d1 and now going all out with the manure barrage that im faking it. In general if someone wants to talk in circles with me I wont oblige them, if bbt isnt satisfied that im sticking with my gutread, too bad. I just havent felt you approaching things with any ulterior motive at all, so idk if this is scum toffee or town toffee pushing me and pushing me on this but imo i've already said my say.
I feel pretty close to locktowning you, so the only reason I see for me to be talking bout my read is if it changes and I really don't feel like thats gonna happen.
I think you can say I'm tunneling you atm, sure. But to say I was 'hyper-focused' on it D1 is a huge stretch. I was, and still am, discussing and engaging multiple things with multiple players so you spewing 'omg stop tunneling me' is absolutely not a thing.
You said yourself you would answer it. Why the change of heart? If people can't see the repositioning from Eira here then I don't know what else I can say.
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
This post is @BBT but I don't feel like quoting his large post.
I had a silly thought over Night 1 that if mafia shot HPE, TSQ would tunnel me for this phase and either succeed in getting me eliminated or ruin any towncred I had. Given that no one besides him has really shown any interest in scumreading me, I figured it was the mafia's best bet to get me back in the elim pool. I would say the major difference between my scumread and yours is that you already looked bad and were a viable wagon because of your argument with him, while I looked questionable at best near the end of Day 1.
Regarding the buddying and my request of your past town games, I thought that maybe you just wanted to have a villager pocketed and picked Bella by having an empty (meta) townread on her. When I asked you about your past meta reads, I didn't mean on Bella specifically, I was referring to any instance where you were a villager and relied on meta to read someone else. Because if this isn't something you normally do as a villager, then it just looks like a fake townread.
I just quickly went through BBT's mentions of Bella and I'm shrug. Meta townread that was "good enough" for Day 1, then he says he has no confidence in actually reading her, and now it's Day 2 and it feels like he's veeery lightly shading her while also keeping her in his stronger townleans. Since his Day 1 read wasn't strong, I imagine a reevaluation of that read (or at least sanity checking it) would be a pretty natural course of development, but he's kind of just holding onto the initial empty read. I think the most substance it has is when he mentioned that Bella is more hesitant/fence-sitty as scum, and he liked that she had early reads.
I just suspect that this read in particular isn't real.
fake edit: alright, thanks. I'm probably going to just look at your other reads when I get the chance and see if I can make any teams that make sense, because I don't really want to waste the phase just sitting on this vote.
In post 1098, Eiralox wrote:[
Yeah im tired discussing my feel on you with toffee, what I said d1 still stands so where at first I humored them, now im just going to flat out ignore them if they keep tunneling into me like this.
Theyve been like hyper focused on it d1 and now going all out with the manure barrage that im faking it. In general if someone wants to talk in circles with me I wont oblige them, if bbt isnt satisfied that im sticking with my gutread, too bad. I just havent felt you approaching things with any ulterior motive at all, so idk if this is scum toffee or town toffee pushing me and pushing me on this but imo i've already said my say.
I feel pretty close to locktowning you, so the only reason I see for me to be talking bout my read is if it changes and I really don't feel like thats gonna happen.
I think you can say I'm tunneling you atm, sure. But to say I was 'hyper-focused' on it D1 is a huge stretch. I was, and still am, discussing and engaging multiple things with multiple players so you spewing 'omg stop tunneling me' is absolutely not a thing.
You said yourself you would answer it. Why the change of heart?
If people can't see the repositioning from Eira here then I don't know what else I can say.
I know this is probably more of a personality thing, but the underlined just comes off as false bravado. You had more or less the same rhetoric when it came to TSQ's "insincere" push on you, so taking the same tone with Eira doesn't inspire any confidence in the push.
while Asia has felt pretty much wholly green to me after a few one-liners exchanged.
Early defence of Aisa, strong enough town read to question the wagon and go to bat for her. 'Wholly green' further implies this is a somewhat of a strong read.
I guess this is more or less fair, but I don't think people need strong townreads to question early Day 1 wagons
Asia feels town and that's that. This early I like to trust my gut, so i'm a happy sheep >.>
No explanation. Gut read, a gut read that was so strong you were willing to question her wagon and defend her. Why is this read so strong? Where did it come from?
Early Day 1 wagons are not that difficult to question
usually they're extremely tenuous because, well, early day 1
I think "lmao this wagon is silly" is a completely normal reaction to an early wagon and is not a comment that requires a strong tr on the wagoned person
Spoiler:
In post 443, Eiralox wrote:i don't care what you think about my posts. when i got reads i wanna expand on, ill expand on 'em, and i'll do so for Asia as a start.
This is you not explaining the Aisa read.
In my last scumgame I definitely made comments like these to beef up my fake cases.
Spoiler:
447 - Somehow messed the quote up so linked the post. Here you say that you don't think you defended Aisa that hard which I kind of agree with. But you did defend her, against a sizeable wagon and that seems too strong for that point of the game for a simple gut read. You then continue to go on and say that, actually, your Aisa read is a strong read despite only being gut and that you understand me questioning the read so you will try to expand further. Note: read still not explained.
It's an early Day 1 wagon, it may be sizeable but it is as fickle as sunny weather in England
From the posts you've quoted so far:
- Eira stated tr on me in 192
- Eira justified early tr in 192 as gut
- In post 447 (~10 pages after their initial read on me) they promise to explain more about why they tr me. I think this is reasonably interpreted as: "I tr Aisa (partly based on evidence I have gathered since that early read), I will explain why later". Eira makes no claim anywhere that their read 192 was anything other than gut.
Spoiler:
In post 451, Eiralox wrote:as i said earlier, i get that i haven't really yet posted aboout why i feel Asia is town.
but i'll try to go over their latest posts after i've gotten to expanding bout Asia.
yeah i said i'll go over it. i don;t rush these things so don;t rush me, anyway, i'll be trying to get into it tonight cos like with enchant's recent stunner of a post, your sus and fire camping on Asia i definitely will substantiate my feels, but right now imma take a break.
Same again. You're so reluctant to explain what is apparently a strong read of yours.
In post 760, Eiralox wrote:
I get you've asked me to explain on Asia, i'm coming to that
We're now up to post 760 and still no explanation. I questioned you in 246. Why is this read taking so long?
More of BBT complaining about Eira not explaining the read
Then comes 879, the explanation for the Aisa read but there is a major, major problem with this. I questioned your town read in 246, which means that you cannot use posts 499, 504 and 587 to explain this read because these posts did not exist at the time of questioning.
I want to know why you were so strongly town reading Aisa that you were willing to defend them against a wagon and question the validity of it. You did this defence in 192 which means I need posts from before 192 to explain the read.
I'll wait.
VOTE: Eira
So it feels like your whole case in this post is that
- Eira justified the read they stated in 192 it as "gut", but the read was strong enough that a wordier explanation was warranted
- Eira later "promised" to say more about their read on me. This promise specifically is saying more about their read on me at the time of post 192
In post 1098, Eiralox wrote:
Yeah im tired discussing my feel on you with toffee, what I said d1 still stands so where at first I humored them, now im just going to flat out ignore them if they keep tunneling into me like this.
Theyve been like hyper focused on it d1 and now going all out with the manure barrage that im faking it. In general if someone wants to talk in circles with me I wont oblige them, if bbt isnt satisfied that im sticking with my gutread, too bad. I just havent felt you approaching things with any ulterior motive at all, so idk if this is scum toffee or town toffee pushing me and pushing me on this but imo i've already said my say.
I feel pretty close to locktowning you, so the only reason I see for me to be talking bout my read is if it changes and I really don't feel like thats gonna happen.
I think you can say I'm tunneling you atm, sure. But to say I was 'hyper-focused' on it D1 is a huge stretch. I was, and still am, discussing and engaging multiple things with multiple players so you spewing 'omg stop tunneling me' is absolutely not a thing.
You said yourself you would answer it. Why the change of heart? If people can't see the repositioning from Eira here then I don't know what else I can say.
Describing it as a "change of heart" is kind of inaccurate no matter what world you believe we are in. Eira claims they have already answered your question. Either
- Eira has already answered, in which case BBT is clearly shading; or
- Eira claims they have answered, but is being misleading, in which case Eira is "being misleading", not "having a change of heart about answering"
What if Aisa just
sheeped Grib
and we
speed limmed BBT
I'm definitely not actually advocating a speed lim here, just being loudmouthed. If we miselim we might end up in melo or elo tomorrow, and 4:3 elo / 5:3 melo sounds Very Bad for town so we uh, kinda need to eliminate scum today
He didn't just question the wagon - he stated he had a town read on you and then proceeded to question it. My whole problem is a) where did this read come from, b) why was it so strong and now c) why is it so damn difficult for him to explain?
You may not need a strong read to question a wagon - but Eira himself said that his read was strong so I would like some justification for such a strong early game read given his actions of wanting to push back on the wagon.
If wagons are so fickle, why did he feel the need to defend you? You have made what I feel is a stretch of an assumption in that you think Eira was talking about later information gathered. Why would I care about that? I am specifically asking about an early game read - I don't care what got posted 15 pages after the fact.
The posts quoted are not just showing Eira not explaining the read, but the fact he keeps saying that he will explain the read and doesn't do it. Constant dodging. He also says he understands the suspicion (appeasement?) so I'm a little confused as to how you're not seeing it.
My case is this;
Eira town reads you based on gut (and says the read is strong)
I ask him to explain this read
He refuses to explain it but says he will get to it eventually before continually dodging
When he does finally get around to it he tries to use later posts that didn't exist to justify an early read and that's not how it works
Then he finally gives up because he can't explain it and refuses to engage
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
In post 1113, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:[...]
The posts quoted are not just showing Eira not explaining the read, but the fact he keeps saying that he will explain the read and doesn't do it. Constant dodging. He also says he understands the suspicion (appeasement?) so I'm a little confused as to how you're not seeing it.
[...]
Oh, it's even worse than you think!
I
townread
Eira partly for refusing to explain the read!
This is a game I modded with Eira in it where they spend Day 2 essentially promising that they will post analysis. The game ends before they get the chance to post much analysis :3 viewtopic.php?t=89796&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go
So the "constant dodging" does not inspire me to change my read at all, sorry
Also I need sleep but I will get back to you tomorrow about the rest =)
In post 1109, Aisa wrote:Can you tell me what your reads are aside from BBT when you next get on, Elements?
that is my plan for tomorrow, my aim is to iso everyone and go from there.
but briefly off the top of my head
NM and enchant are unreadable blobs
frog, bella, bbt are where I think we'll most likely hit scum
you, eira, grib prob town
fire town
I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald All my completed games
NM explaination for vote punched hole in my heart and replaced it with sheep blood, so i sheep NM.
I also expect everyone to sheep us mindlessly this day. Ty
VOTE: Bella
Also who the fuck you call BLOB do i look like bloob you ... Ahem, you blob
Wizard-Mercenary
You need replacement/players ASAP? PM me! I almost always accept.
I'm not really loving Frog and I think this is kind of an underrated wagon atm, so VOTE: frogsterking.
Does anyone wanna talk to me about Enchant?
@bella
, what's your approach towards the game rn? I understand this is a pretty generic question, interpret it as you will
My approach, generally, is to find town: I've spoken about this a lot recently, even in the personality test. It's what I'm struggling with here: I think if could just lock town like, you, grib, fire, bbt and Eir that's a lot, but I'm really iffy on you and grib and bbt.
In post 992, Grib wrote:Welp, was vaguely hoping the scum read on TSQ would dissuade a shot there. That sucks.
This isn't a great entry post. Why did you think your one read on TSQ would make a difference? Why would your scum read on TSQ make any more of an impact than mine?
In post 993, Aisa wrote:BBT, can you tell me why you think Eira is scum?
Sure, I don't see him taking any real stances. I have scum read him pretty much from the get go and nothing has changed. Almost all of his posts are like 'Could be this, could be that, no conclusion'. I also found his early town read of your slot weird, and unless I am missing it, he still hasn't explained it. As well as this, I find myself wondering why Fire doesn't have a problem with Eira's posting considering he is accusing Bella of being wishy-washy when I think Bella has been more straight forward with her reads this game than she has previously.
In post 994, Grib wrote:
Kind of paranoid that BBT has been buddying her.
Talk about this more?
In post 1003, Bellaphant wrote:Welp, my reads are trash. I didn't want to think all of the people pinging me day one were town but yeah. My reads aren't normally that bad.
This isn't a great post Bella. I don't know if you have on future pages, but if not, could you explain where you're currently at in terms of reads?
In post 1011, Firebringer wrote:Ill just go with enchant/aisa/grib are townie for reactions/posts after flips.
No need to think hard this early day 2.
Talk about how Grib's reaction gives you a town read?
In post 1014, Grib wrote:However, I do think we might've flubbed it hard by not killing BBT.
BBT, would you be able to link your most recent towngame where you gave a read that was mostly, if not entirely, based on meta? Bonus points if someone scumread you for it. Extra bonus points if that someone was scum.
I would imagine that there have been a couple of games lately where I have made a read on Bella specifically using meta. Honestly though, I really can't be bothered to go trolling through all my recent posts to find it.
In post 1017, Bellaphant wrote:there was deffo scum inElements/ hpe/tsq/frog/n_m/maybe fire.
I want to look again at
eir
, who was another slot I wavered on.
You just named half the playerlist, Bella.
Let's vote Eira?
In post 1021, Elements wrote:VOTE: BBT
This is scum and I don't think anyone can convince me otherwise
Reasons?
In post 1084, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I'm reasonably confident that scum are in Eira/Frog/Grib/Elements. I can't say I am confident in Enchant being town but they feel town and I don't have a clue how to read NM.
Fire, Aisa and Bella are reasonably strong town reads, in that order.
I quite like this post. Have a more general response: I know that's half the player list, I was also fairly wrong. Of your scum reads, eir is town, I think one of frog or grib is scum but not both, Ans I scum read elements day one and feel like I should just go back to that.
I am less convinced on nm and enchant and again, think it's unlikely that both are scum but one could be.
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}