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[Dannflor]

VC 1.2

Brutalist architecture

Brutalist architecture is an architectural style that emerged during the 1950s in the United Kingdom, among the reconstruction projects of the post-war era.[1][2][3] Brutalist buildings are characterised by minimalist constructions that showcase the bare building materials and structural elements over decorative design.[4][5] The style commonly makes use of exposed, unpainted concrete or brick, angular geometric shapes and a predominantly monochrome colour palette;[6][5] other materials, such as steel, timber, and glass, are also featured.[7]

votes

[2] Fennec

:

Thynhith, kkirigiri

[2] Sterling the steampunk

:

Maestro, catboi

[1] Maestro

:

Sterling the steampunk

[1] Thynhith

:

ceejayvinoya

[3] Not Voting

:

Rockhopper, faüstiv, Fennec

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2022-10-31 21:18:19)

Mod Notes

:

[Maestro]

me roflmao when ppl think I'm genuine/casual and couldn't fake that as scum

I am also still very busy but this evening I will have time to look over, don't like how many ppl overreacted to Fennec getting to L-2

that's not a very big deal on Day 1, let it happen, hold somebody's toes to the fire a bit jeez

[Maestro]

more votes on coasty-tantrumy-SterlingScum tho plz

[kkirigiri]

you know, I could see a Fennec+Sterling scumteam being quite plausible.

Fennec's insistence on Sterling being 'the town dumbass' seems like it'd be the go-to justification to try to absolve them as their maf partner, and I think with mine and Thyn's suspicion also falling on Fennec's slot, they'd try to protect their partner rather than throw them under the bus to gain towncred at this point. They also clearly had to say something about them in their list of reads, since Sterling's posts have stood out, for better or worse.

I'm also not keen on Fennec's justification for their reads, and him placing me as town could be an attempt to try to win me over and flip my vote, though to me this is a secondary reason for me keeping my vote on him for the time being. Ceejay's reads list also seemed a bit thin and watery.

[kkirigiri]

Ah but have we a judge in attendance? Anyways, the courtroom is just the stage for our kangaroo court.

kangaroo court this may be, but speaking from experience, that's no reason why the correct culprits can't be revealed anyway.
something to

be

ar

thinking about.

[Sterling the steampunk]

I wasn't really frustrated by Thynhith at all? Don't know where you got that impression. I was pretty calm in my response. It takes a lot more than that to frustrate me. Maestro did irk me a little because I thought he was being kind of ridiculous but he admitted it was a reaction test (i think?)

Admittedly I assumed you were talking about suspecting me as scum because Thyn had said his suspicion of Theft was a joke, so I assumed it was about me (and, granted, if you're reading people off their entrances, I don't think mine is all that different from TheftofaRose's entrance). Just attempting to deduce things based on what you'd hinted. The actual entrance posts from Theft didn't strike me one way or the other, but the fact they made a wordy entrance and couldn't follow it up, and replaced out upon getting attention is...strange. Sometimes people decide they aren't interested or get bored but it feels a bit jarring with the entrance post. I'll wait until the player is replaced, though.

So you're frustrated that I read you as frustrated? Gotcha!

Alright, in all seriousness, I just read it that way since in your shoes, I'd be reasonably annoyed for having my intentions misread in that way so early in the game.

kkirigiri, any reason to gauged Rose as scum?

For the benefit of anyone else curious, it was this line in particular that grounds my suspicion in Theft [Fennec]

...
Voting is the tool town has - I advise you utilize it, or at the very least, provide a meaningful thought, contribution, or particularly well-thought joke when you post. I myself am partial to the latter.

As well as his being overly wordy, this seems like a rather brazen attempt to try to gain towncred, and in my experience, this is likely to come from maf. I think it'd be obvious to town that NE-ing is sub-optimal, and assume he's joking/fishing for reactions, rather than try to act in that rather patronising way to look as if they're trying to assist the town.


Nonetheless, Sterling, I would like you to address my concerns I have about you that I've mentioned in posts #94 and #97. Could you explain your thinking to me, please?

well in Post #100 I said that most mafia games have a private Mafia chat, so by accusing me of being scum, he accused me of having a PM, I really don't see how my confusion could be seen as a mafia slip though

on another note, @Fennec, sorry, I didn't notice you were here, I often miss new pages, and I have a very important question for you, are you Mafia?

[Sterling the steampunk]

Ah but have we a judge in attendance? Anyways, the courtroom is just the stage for our kangaroo court.

kangaroo court this may be, but speaking from experience, that's no reason why the correct culprits can't be revealed anyway.
something to

be

ar

thinking about.

I see you you put a hidden ar in your post here which combined with the be spells out Bear, what are you hinting at there?

[catboi]

you know, I could see a Fennec+Sterling scumteam being quite plausible.

Fennec's insistence on Sterling being 'the town dumbass' seems like it'd be the go-to justification to try to absolve them as their maf partner, and I think with mine and Thyn's suspicion also falling on Fennec's slot, they'd try to protect their partner rather than throw them under the bus to gain towncred at this point. They also clearly had to say something about them in their list of reads, since Sterling's posts have stood out, for better or worse.

I'm also not keen on Fennec's justification for their reads, and him placing me as town could be an attempt to try to win me over and flip my vote, though to me this is a secondary reason for me keeping my vote on him for the time being. Ceejay's reads list also seemed a bit thin and watery.

on another note, @Fennec, sorry, I didn't notice you were here, I often miss new pages, and I have a very important question for you, are you Mafia?

Lol

[kkirigiri]

My issue was though that you accused Maestro of bringing up that you had a private thread, when he I don't think mentioned such a thing. In fact, other than you, only I talked about the possibility of you having a private thread, and it was in the context of you

not

having one - and that notwithstanding, that wasn't the post that you were responding to anyway.

And even if you hadn't said that, it seems like such an overly-specific denial that it should naturally ring alarm-bells to anyone following the game.

[faüstiv]

hi

Steampunk is town. I did want to push on him to get more of a feel for his slot, but his playstyle is more in line with newbie town rather than newbie scum. Steampunk is clearly not considering the content of his posts, which has lead to confusion around his role PM in #22 and the private thread in #80. His haphazard voting style is also in line with newbie-town rather than newbie-scum. From experience, newbie scum are more likely to be more tepid and reserved and try and resist placing votes (especially ones controversial in the gamestate such as the Maestro vote who is a widely townread player) as they don't want to fall under suspicion. Whilst Steampunk's reasons for his votes don't make much sense (imo), the fact that he

is

throwing votes around on a whim suggests that he's not overly concerned on what he posts and whether his posts are coming off as scummy. I also believe that if Sterling is mafia, then his partner can only be Fennec (TheftOFARose) or Rockhopper as I believe everyone else in the game would have at least coached him on how to play the day as mafia to avoid arousing suspicion. Theft, being a new player himself and Rockhopper being inactive are the only two possibiliites I have for his partner with the above logic in mind. Therefore, with this in mind, coupled with me believing that Steampunk is town, means that he should be immune from today's vote as we don't gain a lot of information from his elimination.


My townread on Maestro mainly comes from sharing a similar thought processs on the gamestate as I did. I was concerned with Catboi's post regarding meta which Maestro highlights in #15 and #38 is also a valid point as I couldn't see anything particularly scummy prior to kkgiri's post where he announces that he has a scumread. #44, #45, #46 reads like a natural progression on a read and the posts are tonally quite town. Generally, when you share the same thought process and share the same reactions to factors within the gamestate, then it indicates that those two people are of the same alignment. I know I am town so based on this, I am inclined to believe that Maestro is also indeed town.

[Sterling the steampunk]

@kkkgiri well I don't see how getting the wrong role PM could indicate a scumslip unless it somehow accidentally revealed I had a Mafia chat. Also it's not uncommon to remember things that never happened.

[faüstiv]

My primary FOS is on catboi.

As stated by Maestro, catboi openly claiming that he changes his meta makes looking at his previous town/scum games moot because nothing useful can be deciphered and any argument you could make based off of his behaviour in a previous game can be argued away.

Catboi's initial posts read as if he's trying to appear reasonable and not step on any toes:

#11:

Hi Thynhith! Sorry about miselimming you last time we played together >_>

I'm glad to see you're back, though! Hopefully things go better this time.

Why do you see that post as "high-effort"?

#18:

I don't think I've ever played with Maestro. Granted, I've forgotten more games than most people have played, but the name doesn't ring any bells.

Ah, thought the vote was at least semi-serious and wanted to pry at your reasoning because I didn't actually believe there was a lot of "thought" put into that post.

I don't mind you coming at me like this though.

Then in #51 he justifies his vote on Ceejay with the below:

It's a very thin thing but in my experience scum are more likely to make that type of RVS post where it's "short statement"/vote, trying to do just enough to blend in while not getting directly involved, didn't really interact with other people.

It could turn out to be absolutely nothing of course, but it's RVS.

He claims his vote on Ceejay is a legitimate vote but uses an excuse "could be nothing, it's RVS" to give himself justification to jump off his wagon.

#81 irks me, not because of the vote, but because I was a scumread player at the time. This isn't so bad in isolation, but he then jumps on Steampunk based on my reasoning, which I found perculiar at the time. His reasoning for agreeing with me seems flimsy and his progression on the Steampunk read seems kind of off. Steampunk had a wagon forming him on that point and whilst catboi was tiptoeing around the issue and asking Steampunk questions, he never felt really committed to the scumread until he placed his vote on him and I don't think the reason behind the read is super strong. Sterling's ambiguous explanation behind the role PM thing also gives scum a good opening to perhaps misrepresent him and get a bandwagon on him and personally, I think catboi's behaviour is that of a player who is looking for mislynches and not scum, therefore:

VOTE: catboi

[Maestro]

I want to be annoyed at you for a couple reasons faust but honestly that's pretty convincing, I think there's prob only 1 scum in Sterling/Catboi/Faust based on all of this discussion which is a cool idea to have this early, also unlikely I think for Scumfaust to drop the above on a fellowScumcatboi so I doubt they're together, which probably actually means it's neither of you and you should both vote Sterline tbh

[Maestro]

Or rather you specifically should vote Sterling for now, Faust, then I will be happy to reevaluate catboi later

[Maestro]

Or rather you specifically should vote Sterling for now, Faust, then I will be happy to reevaluate catboi later

[ceejayvinoya]

Catching up and for some reason I'm liking kkirigiri and faustiv more for town.

I'm not sure what to do with Maestro. I'm getting town vibes but I'm not confident about it for some reason. Maybe because early on he's involved more with nudging along the newbies rather than actively sorting, if that makes sense.

[ceejayvinoya]

My forepromised reads list

Townlean
Maestro - feels pretty genuine/casual, hard to fake for scum.
Kirigiri - her declaration at the start feels too random for scum. But, Kiri, I would like to see you elucidate what part of Rose's first post made you scumread him.

???
Sterling - gut says he is newtownie, need to see more to be sure
Rock and Rose - not enough content
Catboi - I would like to town read you, but I'm getting too much of a defensive tone. Im sure it will become more clear though. And your latest vote on Sterling - surely as SE you should know better than pushing newbies who have slipped up?
Faust - has quietly gone under the radar? Soft pushing sterling? Not happy with him unwilling to commit himself, very much an evasive attitude, so [VOTE: Faust]
I would like him to explain his own unvote.

Pedit: by that logic perhaps I should be scumreading you

@Thynhith this is how votes are done:

Code: Select all

[vote]name[/vote]

[ceejayvinoya]

My forepromised reads list

Townlean
Maestro - feels pretty genuine/casual, hard to fake for scum.
Kirigiri - her declaration at the start feels too random for scum. But, Kiri, I would like to see you elucidate what part of Rose's first post made you scumread him.

???
Sterling - gut says he is newtownie, need to see more to be sure
Rock and Rose - not enough content
Catboi - I would like to town read you, but I'm getting too much of a defensive tone. Im sure it will become more clear though. And your latest vote on Sterling - surely as SE you should know better than pushing newbies who have slipped up?
Faust - has quietly gone under the radar? Soft pushing sterling? Not happy with him unwilling to commit himself, very much an evasive attitude, so [VOTE: Faust]
I would like him to explain his own unvote.

Pedit: by that logic perhaps I should be scumreading you

@Thynhith this is how votes are done:

Code: Select all

[vote]name[/vote]

I also don't think it's a good idea to base townreads off genuine/casual tones. I'm not saying your Maestro townread is wrong but I don't like the reason for that townread. If you told me he helped advance the game or has been helpful to town in some way or something that could be better.

[faüstiv]

Or rather you specifically should vote Sterling for now, Faust, then I will be happy to reevaluate catboi later

i'd rather you evaluate him now tbh

[ceejayvinoya]

I only recognise Catboi, but as I haven't been on this site for long at all and half the players here are also new, that was kinda only expected to know 1-2 people.

Reads and bullshit like that
Everyone else not listed: Has done the equivalent of fuck all content, so reads = Basically impossible for them

Sterling - Possibly Town -

Doesn't give off scum vibes at all, just gives off

Town Dumbass

vibes. Still too early to call him specifically

Town

yet. (Your not a dumbass, but compared to everyone else, you'd be specifically the most clueless)

This feels weird to me for some reason. I mean supposedly you're not even certain he's town yet.

Kiri - Possibly Town -

Currently seems like a reasonable person. In general, voting my predecessor wasn't a shit move I'll give you that, but they didn't really send much besides that so still not giving me fully

Town

vibes. For now, I consider you as well, You can see the thing next to your name.

Also feels like a weird reason for a townlean

Catboi/Thynhith - I want to see more between these two. to me, this could be

TvT

but to me, it seems more likely that this is a

T

v

M

, but there needs to be more interaction to gauge this.

To you, this feels like either TvT or TvS. That's pretty useless. Every interaction in this game involving two people could easily feel like that. What makes this one stand out?

[Fennec]

Insert a sigh here because that’s exactly what I’m feeling
Response to cee - I. fucking. Explained. It. In. one. Of. My. Last. Posts. They feel as a pair way more likely to have a scum between them. And about the resasonable thing, is that before I EVEN realised I was replacing rose (I was looking through the thread before looking specifically at who was being replaced) I AGREED WITH THEM. Now, I know they were town because I’m town now (Fuck, I’ll even claim if you want me to!) also about the sterling thing IT WAS 125 POSTS IN. How the fuck do you say someone is out right TOWN when all they have done is be clueless, and how do you get that from the label POSSIBLY TOWN. It literally means, Possibly town.
Response to Kiri - I haven’t even confirmed sterling is town to me, it just gives off VI vibes. And the scum pm thing, is simply: Kinda fucking stupid, because That thing was completely, FUCKING NAI.
Response to Faust - It isn’t calling him a dumbass out right, like I mentioned: Not a dumbass specifically, but the most clueless out of the player list.
Response to whoever called my math wrong - of fucking cause it is, (And maths shouldn’t play a part in mafia too much, I used it as a tool to explain my actual thoughts on it) but the way you debunked it, was also wrong. who the fuck would ever put there own self In to their own scum reads, into a group of people they think are scum, and shit like that when they already know their own alignment (One big facepalm) there are 8 People other than me, I know I’m town (You may not unless you are mafia, also why would I outright claim maf if I was maf) so I know from my pov: It is very very fucking roughly, 50/50 to find a scum in 2 people
Response to the people mentioning the thy/cat thing: One of them just seems like mafia at least, their interactions to me set off the fact despite the supposed “TRs” on each other, someone was playing as scum most likely. Thy and Kiri kinda already gave reasons for cat being possible scum, and thy, well I’d call him possibly town, not outright town, but possibly, so to me cat’s the most suspicious from my view. I’ll go In depth in like 20 Minutes, I’m not at my computer.

[Fennec]

My primary FOS is on catboi.

As stated by Maestro, catboi openly claiming that he changes his meta makes looking at his previous town/scum games moot because nothing useful can be deciphered and any argument you could make based off of his behaviour in a previous game can be argued away.

Catboi's initial posts read as if he's trying to appear reasonable and not step on any toes:

#11:

Hi Thynhith! Sorry about miselimming you last time we played together >_>

I'm glad to see you're back, though! Hopefully things go better this time.

Why do you see that post as "high-effort"?

#18:

I don't think I've ever played with Maestro. Granted, I've forgotten more games than most people have played, but the name doesn't ring any bells.

Ah, thought the vote was at least semi-serious and wanted to pry at your reasoning because I didn't actually believe there was a lot of "thought" put into that post.

I don't mind you coming at me like this though.

Then in #51 he justifies his vote on Ceejay with the below:

It's a very thin thing but in my experience scum are more likely to make that type of RVS post where it's "short statement"/vote, trying to do just enough to blend in while not getting directly involved, didn't really interact with other people.

It could turn out to be absolutely nothing of course, but it's RVS.

He claims his vote on Ceejay is a legitimate vote but uses an excuse "could be nothing, it's RVS" to give himself justification to jump off his wagon.

#81 irks me, not because of the vote, but because I was a scumread player at the time. This isn't so bad in isolation, but he then jumps on Steampunk based on my reasoning, which I found perculiar at the time. His reasoning for agreeing with me seems flimsy and his progression on the Steampunk read seems kind of off. Steampunk had a wagon forming him on that point and whilst catboi was tiptoeing around the issue and asking Steampunk questions, he never felt really committed to the scumread until he placed his vote on him and I don't think the reason behind the read is super strong. Sterling's ambiguous explanation behind the role PM thing also gives scum a good opening to perhaps misrepresent him and get a bandwagon on him and personally, I think catboi's behaviour is that of a player who is looking for mislynches and not scum, therefore:

VOTE: catboi

Alright, I'm at the computer.

Scratch going in-depth on my catboi reads, literally everyone has done it for me. Just look at faust and kiri's posts, then look at thy outright KNOWING that cat changed his meta (And also said that he did) and also a few things he also mentioned, You can already see why the fuck I find cat as a possible scum player. so doing it now: VOTE: Cat

So I wanna go into some reads of the... more sleepy people.

Faust - Seems the most town, Pointing out a lot of important details that needed to be mentioned and that I agree with is one thing, but his explanation of everything is generally, quite good, and not scummy. If you wanna know why, J U S T R E A D it is literally all in 2 pages before this post and the page it is on.
Maestro - More of a response type thing here: If your mentioning 1 scum is in Cat/Faust/Sterling, to me, your basically claiming Cat is scummy to you. you thought Sterling was suspicious for a kinda weird reason, think more in-depth about it, it is a scumread based on an obvious NAI set of posts. For now, I do think you are somewhat town for sure though.
Cee - I can't even get myself to think of you as EITHER town or scum. You don't even warrant a Null. Could turn up as the scum-partner of what maestro mentioned
Rockhopper - Literally has done fuck all. With POE though, I'm kinda thinking that this guy MIGHT end up being the scum-partner of what maestro mentioned. Rockhopper, please do something. and if you eventually get replaced which I think you will, can the replacement send some actual content so we can actually see what you think, and actually get some material?

[catboi]

Steampunk is town. I did want to push on him to get more of a feel for his slot, but his playstyle is more in line with newbie town rather than newbie scum. Steampunk is clearly not considering the content of his posts, which has lead to confusion around his role PM in #22 and the private thread in #80. His haphazard voting style is also in line with newbie-town rather than newbie-scum. From experience, newbie scum are more likely to be more tepid and reserved and try and resist placing votes (especially ones controversial in the gamestate such as the Maestro vote who is a widely townread player) as they don't want to fall under suspicion. Whilst Steampunk's reasons for his votes don't make much sense (imo), the fact that he is throwing votes around on a whim suggests that he's not overly concerned on what he posts and whether his posts are coming off as scummy. I also believe that if Sterling is mafia, then his partner can only be Fennec (TheftOFARose) or Rockhopper as I believe everyone else in the game would have at least coached him on how to play the day as mafia to avoid arousing suspicion.

Theft, being a new player himself and Rockhopper being inactive are the only two possibiliites I have for his partner with the above logic in mind. Therefore, with this in mind, coupled with me believing that Steampunk is town, means that he should be immune from today's vote as we don't gain a lot of information from his elimination.

While I can see where you're coming from with this read, I don't think the logic holds up. The thing s while yo view the maestro vote as contrversial it's basically an OMGUS vote, which newbie scum are pretty prone to as well, and beyond that he's not actually made any votes he actually meant anything by. Also, your theory about "he'd be coached more" doesn't really mesh with reality - and you should know, you've been scum in newbie games before. From having played in a lot of newbie games and modded a couple, scum usually...just don't talk to each other that much. You're imagining a greater degree of planning than most scumteam in newbie games actually put iin. Lastly, your final point falls apart for me - If you believe sterling's only possible partners are the slots that were inactive, then

he still has viable partners

. From my point of view I have absolutely no reason to clear him based on that. If he actually flipped scum, wouldn't you then have information on who his partners are? If you just stop and say you think he's town, full stop, that's fine to argue, but I don't like the "no information" defense. Too often that leads to people not killing scummy players for being scummy as they instead go for hero eliminations.


Additionally, as it concerns your theory of sterling's potential teammates, Here is my current view of the game, in short:

I believe Maestro is town who is looking for scum.
I believe kirigiri is town who is looking for scum.
I believe Thynhith is probably town who is looking for scum
I believe you are probably town who is looking for scum but is mistaken (or you've fooled me, in which case, congratulations)

You might say "is looking for scum" is a low bar, but in newbie games thinking about the game on a basic level will usually work. For newer players it's

usually

easier to figure out when they're town because the genuineness shines through. I have a ~fairly decent track record of locating scum in newbie games in part by identifying who is obvious town. I can elaborate on these reads but I feel pretty good about them right now and if I'm right on all my townreads then the game is basically already won.


Now, maybe it's not sterling who scum, and the scum are within ceejay/fennec/rockhopper. That's totally possible! But at that moment in time I felt my vote was most useful in pressuring sterling. Fennec had only just replaced in. ceejay's posts so far have been very "whatever" but I figured I'd give him a little more time. I thought sterling was a little awkward in response to maestro and I actually feel like a townie would have protested their innocence a little more strongly.

[catboi]

My primary FOS is on catboi.

As stated by Maestro, catboi openly claiming that he changes his meta makes looking at his previous town/scum games moot because nothing useful can be deciphered and any argument you could make based off of his behaviour in a previous game can be argued away.

This is a big post so I'm probably going to break it down point by point. Apologies for the length in advance.

To start with, I already gave a rebuttal to this argument, which you seem to have ignored. I think interpreting "I am trying to play differently" as an attempt to make myself more difficult to read is ridiculous. I'm frankly a little bit insulted people keep pulling that interpretation.

I ALSO am not attempting to discourage anyone from meta reading me! If you want to try, I encourage you to do so! I'll even provide links.

[catboi]

Catboi's initial posts read as if he's trying to appear reasonable and not step on any toes:

#11:

Hi Thynhith! Sorry about miselimming you last time we played together >_>

I'm glad to see you're back, though! Hopefully things go better this time.

Why do you see that post as "high-effort"?

#18:

I don't think I've ever played with Maestro. Granted, I've forgotten more games than most people have played, but the name doesn't ring any bells.

Ah, thought the vote was at least semi-serious and wanted to pry at your reasoning because I didn't actually believe there was a lot of "thought" put into that post.

I don't mind you coming at me like this though.

Bth of those posts are addressed to a singular player - Thynhith. The first one is me apologizing for mis-eliminating him on Day 1 in our last game. I felt incredibly bad for doing so because I had initially townread him and then second guessed it, and he didn't play again after that, so I thought it might have made him leave the site entirely. Me greeting the only player in the game I've played with before is not "trying to appear reasonable and not step on any toes".

Secondly, on that page, Thynhith tried to call me out for my intro. I actually thought it was towny for him to do so, for reasons I've gone into. Shows a little bit of pattern recognition and a scumhuntin mindset, and I think he'd be less likely to try to push me here. I don't think it's unreasonable of to think my response there could be scum motivated - I probably wouldn't want to push back too strongly on Thyn if I was scum. But the thing is, I'm town and I don't think Thyn had scum motivation in attacking me. So you need to tell me - why does that post make you think specifically that I as scum trying not to "step on any toes"? Why ca't I be town who is townreading Thynhith?