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[kkirigiri]

I also believe that Steampunk/Fennec don't co-ordinate that vote to put Fennec on E-2 given there's 1. heat on the slot 2. Fennec being inactive at that point in time.

My theory doesn't require any co-ordination on the scumteam's part at all. Just opportunism on Sterling's POV

I don't think either party could solo this game

I don't disagree with you here.

it looks like you're setting up for a Fennec mislynch tomorrow once Steampunk flips town.

I mean Sterling's flipping maf here, but even if he didn't, then wouldn't suspicion immediately be cast on me and Maestro at the start of Day 2? Myself especially since it'd be my own vote on Sterling that would look particularly opportunistic. I'd be in no position to get Fennec voted out.

[faüstiv]

What I say in #47 relates to his opening post being more likely a townslip than a scumslip. It is still possible that he hasn't looked at his private thread or seen his name there, my point kind of assumed that he did though if he were scum, and at that point that seemed the more natural chain of events to me.

What might be considered a 'slip' from him is a separate point entirely, that he claims that Maestro accused him of having a private thread and therefore being mafia, when that was nothing to do with what he said. It is true that I had brought up private threads as a topic, but that was in the context of me trying to defend him - which is again different to what I am pushing him for, if you read what I'm saying carefully.
To me this seemed like it could be guilty conscience coming through by responding to an accusation that hadn't been made of him.

You will have to quote Sterling's posts and explain in further detail because as it stands, I'm reconsidering my townread on you. I don't see any evidence where Sterling's guilty conscience is shining through and this feels a bit reachy to me.

What I feel like you're doing is that you decided he was town very early on, and are now trying to fit all later events into that framework no matter what, even if it's not the most natural explanation for them. Yeah, I know that feeling of it being 'too obvious', but this isn't a hand-written scenario. I think the obvious answer here is the right one.

This is incorrect as I voted Steampunk after Maestro's post and pressured the slot. I was satisified with his response and so removed my vote off of him. I think Steampunk is votebait and I'm not liking the bandwagon on him at all.

As to why I'm only just voting him, I think you can gather why in my #289. I'm still suspicious of Fennec, but I think he's a better vote than him at the moment.

I still don't see how you think Fennec and Steampunk are both scum. Nothing in their playstyle and interactions indicate to me that they are a team.

I mean Sterling's flipping maf here, but even if he didn't, then wouldn't suspicion immediately be cast on me and Maestro at the start of Day 2? Myself especially since it'd be my own vote on Sterling that would look particularly opportunistic. I'd be in no position to get Fennec voted out.

I disagree. You're townread by most of the players and both Fennec and Steampunk are hot choices for a mislynch.

What's your thoughts on Thryhith and ceejay? Would you be willing to join me and vote one of them?

[Thynhith]

VOTE: Thryinth

catboi, your defense is egregious and I don't have the energy anymore to argue about one argument in my case on on why you could be scum but whatever. Fairly sure this is scum.

At least have the respect to get my name right, and say why you're scumreading me. At this point you're just flailing your vote around.

Well you haven't made a case on either of us. And quick review of your posts shows that you've

never

scumread me, so you're trying to get kiri on your wagon, why exactly? Looks very suspicious

That leaves kk/maestro/thry/ceejay in my scumpool and I townread the former more than I do the latter, so at this point, based on PoE, I think the scumteam is ceejay/thry.

And of course you've eliminated Fennec, Sterling, thewingfan from your scumpool. Great.

[kkirigiri]

response to faust:

here you accuse me of having a scum role PM, which if true would

means I have a private thread

, however thinking back was still in the RVS, so you'd be fogiven for, however since I don't have anyone better to vote I'm sticking with my vote

here's where he brings the subject of a private thread up, which I don't think was relevant to what Maestro was accusing of being a slip.

no, but it's common thing in Mafia for informed players to have their own private chat where they can chat without anyone else hearing, so I

assumed

this game have one.

here he says he 'assumes' this game has private threads, i.e. he's saying he didn't get the idea from where I mentioned it.

Point being, it was a subject that was for one reason or another on his mind, and I think it could be because he has seen or being using his thread as a mafia. I referred to this as curious in #158, and pressed him on it, but I don't think I ever got a direct response from Sterling, which makes me think he was then deliberately avoiding the subject.

On Thynhith, I'd prefer not to vote him. I mentioned before that his #92 seems more likely to come from town than maf, and I haven't had a good reason to revise that read so far.

I haven't got a positive read on ceejay yet. In isolation his posts might lean scum-ish, for instance he's questioned Thyn's reads whilst posting what I thought was a similarly insubstantial list. However I don't think that's enough to actively scumread him. I'd need to hear something convincing if you wanted me to vote him with you.

[faüstiv]

Ok fair enough. I don't agree with your conclusion, but I can see where you're coming from.

I will be posting my case on ceejay/thry shortly.

[faüstiv]

also how do you link to posts?

[kkirigiri]

if you right-click the post # in the top left you can copy the link to it; I just put that in url tags.

[catboi]

UNVOTE:

I realized I was voting emotionally last night which is never a good thing. I apologize for acting in such a manner, it was inappropriate for a newbie game.

VOTE: ceejay

I think ceejay has been going under the radar while doing very little and would like to direct some more attention his way

[faüstiv]

Ok, so when I said I had two townreads and one scumread, the scumread I had at that point was was actually on ceejay. I didn't want to vote/suspect him directly because I wanted to see how he'd react to certain bandwagons etc. as I believe that votes are a better tool for determining mafia than posts are.

Post #85:

It's weird but I'm not really seeing anything yet that catches my attention, except for faustiv who I have no idea how to sort.

catboi feels like town.
maestro feels like town but I wouldn't mind seeing more.

Kyouko hasn't really done anything yet except sit on her early read. Might check again later.
Sterling? idk could be town.

Rose and Thynhith disappeared.

Rockhopper didn't show.

I'd rather push Thynhith for now.

VOTE: Thynhith what do you think of the game so far?

Outs a lazy readlist, claims he doesn't know how to sort me but makes no effort to try and sort me. I was a scumread player at that point in the game. Why would town!ceejay not try and sort me here? Says he'd rather push on Thyn but doesn't explain why.

#87:

I think that's a loose way to describe it? I just want more from you to help figure you out.

Gut feeling is I should probably look into faustiv more but I don't really feel like doing that yet.

Another gut feeling is that your entrance felt rather awkward but looking back on it I think this is just how you post.

Again references me, again makes 0 attempt to sort me. Doesn't pursue his vote on Thry past this point.

Ceejay, I'd like to know why

?

#165:

Catching up and for some reason I'm liking kkirigiri and faustiv more for town.

I'm not sure what to do with Maestro. I'm getting town vibes but I'm not confident about it for some reason. Maybe because early on he's involved more with nudging along the newbies rather than actively sorting, if that makes sense.

Doesn't explain why. Convenient that me and kkirigiri were townread by most of the players at that point.

#167:

I also don't think it's a good idea to base townreads off genuine/casual tones. I'm not saying your Maestro townread is wrong but I don't like the reason for that townread. If you told me he helped advance the game or has been helpful to town in some way or something that could be better.

This coming after posting a lazy readlist before. His read on Maestro as per his readlist was "maestro feels like town but I wouldn't mind seeing more."

#169 he criticizes Fennec's readlist. I suppose this is in line with the criticism he had on Thry's readlist, but his tone in response to this readlist reads more provocative and interrogative:

Also feels like a weird reason for a townlean

To you, this feels like either TvT or TvS. That's pretty useless. Every interaction in this game involving two people could easily feel like that. What makes this one stand out?

He was not this aggressive when criticising Thry's readlist when he was townreading people based on tone like Fennec's readlist was. Fennec was scumread at that point in the game.

#285 reads like someone trying to justify a reason to vote me.

And what the heck is this?

I was going to go back to the other pages to see what I've missed but these caught my eye.

Again, the tone is different to when he was 'interrogating' Thry.

Also want to vote steampunk too. His iso feels worse than I remember it being.

This I believe is ceejay giving himself an out to jump off my wagon and jump on Steampunk's.

#287:

Probably town. idk I'm not good at mafia: kkirigiri, catboi

in that weird state between "probably town" and "I don't want to elim these today": maestro

I don't want to elim these today: wingfan, Thynhith, fennec?

Everybody else: faustiv, sterlingsteampunk

Notice how the two players with the most heat on them are in ceejay's votepool? and Fennec's name is ended with a ?

If I was to go completely tinfoil hat, I would argue that ceejay's #85 and subsequent interaction with Thry is two partners distancing, but I don't feel like going down that particular avenue just yet.

[faüstiv]

in short, ceejay reads like someone who is doing the bare minimum to scumhunt, is jumping on wagons which aren't controversial and townreading players who are townread by consensus. It could be read as disengagement, but there's too much there for me to completely dismiss it, and other players are townier than him which makes him scum via POE imo.

[faüstiv]

Thry isn't someone who actually pinged me as scum until I read his ISO. I feel like Thry is making posts which make him 'appear' to be actively scumhunting, but he's not really scumhunting. They're safe, 'radio-friendly' posts which sound pleasant, but aren't thought-provoking or provide anything interesting.

#89:

It's been a fascinating reread. Just want to note that I don't find this entirely satisfying, and Maestro has a valid concern.
1) It's plausible you weren't expecting me pick up on the change to your meta
2) Also plausible you made up an explanation after I pointed it out
Chuck me a link to your prior game and I promise I'll stop harping on

Like this post for example. It's not very controversial. Tonally it reads town, but what is Thry actually saying here? "Just want to note that I don't find this entirely satisfying". Does nothing to pressure the slot.

It's plausible you weren't expecting me pick up on the change to your meta

Other people picked up on this.

Also plausible you made up an explanation after I pointed it out

Possibly, but this does nothing from a scumhunter's perspective. It's just stating the obvious.

Chuck me a link to your prior game and I promise I'll stop harping on

Maybe a stretch but he could have been saying this to look reasonable and look like he is genuinely trying to sort cat? But then again, why not just look at catboi's game history, which can be found in his profile? Why does he feel the need to ask him directly? 87 is a post which reads tonally town and reasonable, but doesn't actually say anything, and there are a few of Thry's posts which are in a similar vein to this.

Finished catching up now. First impression is that there are few telling reads either way. But some interesting interactions.

@Sterling, I think most people want to get a better read on you, but you don't have much content. What are your reads right now? Even better, do you think anyone voting for you is scum?

Like what does this mean?

#126:

My forepromised reads list

Townlean
Maestro - feels pretty genuine/casual, hard to fake for scum.
Kirigiri - her declaration at the start feels too random for scum. But, Kiri, I would like to see you elucidate what part of Rose's first post made you scumread him.

???
Sterling - gut says he is newtownie, need to see more to be sure
Rock and Rose - not enough content
Catboi -

I would like to town read you, but I'm getting too much of a defensive tone. Im sure it will become more clear though. And your latest vote on Sterling - surely as SE you should know better than pushing newbies who have slipped up?

Faust - has quietly gone under the radar? Soft pushing sterling? Not happy with him unwilling to commit himself, very much an evasive attitude, so [VOTE: Faust]
I would like him to explain his own unvote.

Pedit: by that logic perhaps I should be scumreading you

Actually reading this, is this a scumslip? "pushing newbies who have slipped up". I quoted it because he's criticizing catboi for pushing on Sterling which he as also doing, but he's worded it in such a way that he

knows

Steampunk slipped up?

I can think of some uses for elimming him. We get to clear the air, so to speak. So long as we have him in D2 he will continue to be the center of discussion, and later scum will use him as a convenient lynchee. Besides, I still feel somewhat uneasy about his towniness. After getting everyone stirred up with his "scumslip", wouldn't a newtownie be working to regain trust and contribute discussion? Any townie, in fact. It's suspect that he laid low after those first few days, only emerging to post insubstantial comments.

Policy vote isn't pro-town. Why is Thry advocating for this?

#215 he votes Fennec when he's a hot wagon. Interrogating me, his tone completely changes now that I've voted him. Unhappy that I townread three players, two of which, are voteable.

@Faust Oi, respond to this. Does his vote make no impression on your read of him?

It did make me townread him, but now I'm wondering if he's your partner based on #126



I am happy to reconsider my Steampunk read D2 if Thry flips scum, but PLEASE can we vote this today?

[Dannflor]

VC 1.4

Mini scule

Mini scule is a species of microhylid frog endemic to Madagascar that was described in 2019. The scientific name of the species refers to its size, being a pun on the word miniscule. It is very small, measuring only 8.4 to 10.8 mm (0.33 to 0.43 in) in snout–vent length. It has bronze underparts with a brown groin and back of the thigh, cream upperparts with brown flecking, a dark brown side of the head, and a red iris. It is known only from the Sainte Luce Reserve, where it inhabits areas with deep leaf litter near semi-permanent water bodies. Specimens of frogs from Mandena, the Vohimena mountains, the southern Anosy Mountains, and Tsitongambarika may also be of this species. Like other species in the genus Mini, it received media attention when first described due to the wordplay in its scientific name.

votes

[2] Fennec

:

Thynhith, Sterling the steampunk

[2] Sterling the steampunk

:

Maestro, kkirigiri

[1] faüstiv

:

ceejayvinoya

[1] Thynhith

:

faüstiv

[1] Maestro

:

thewingfan

[1] ceejayvinoya

:

catboi

[1] Not Voting

:

Fennec

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2022-10-31 21:18:19)

Mod Notes

: Please be more mindful of this rule: "For many years, the word “lynch” was used to describe the person who was voted out by town in a mafia game. We no longer allow this word to be used."

[kkirigiri]

I like those analyses by faust, at the very least I feel like I can firm up my estimation of him as town.

@Thynith, ceejay, what are your reactions? Do you feel as if he's arguing in bad faith, or do you think he's town who is simply wrong about you?

[Maestro]

I srsly got confused bc so many ppl were talking as if Daytalk is confirmed and it just

is

... it's a thing, how did I not know this? I had to check in the OP and there's no reason for anybody to believe me that I didn't know but wtf...

I need to read for partners slightly differently obviously but yeah I RLY like Sterling for today still, plz and thx

nothing has changed this, and Faust fighting it like they are just makes me want to force-1v1 them, bc I don't think townie pushes this hard against smth unless actually Scum trying to build Towncred long-term via white-knighting, like c'mon Faust nobody will be mean to you if Sterling flips Town, they'll all hang me tomorrow but it will be worth it in the end

[Maestro]

meanwhile if Sterling flips *scum* I would never in my life leave Faust alive until endgame w how he's been defending Sterling

[kkirigiri]

What do you think about the idea that faust considers with Thyn+Sterling being the scum team at the end of his second post?

[faüstiv]

meanwhile if Sterling flips *scum* I would never in my life leave Faust alive until endgame w how he's been defending Sterling

sheep me today and if Thry flips scum i'll sheep you tomorrow.

[Maestro]

nah, I trust that bravado of yours even less than I trust your read(s)

[Maestro]

What do you think about the idea that faust considers with Thyn+Sterling being the scum team at the end of his second post?

this seemed like a little wafer-thin hedging of bets, idk it all seems like strategy for rn, I need to come back to this later and reread in totality prob

[faüstiv]

nah, I trust that bravado of yours even less than I trust your read(s)

what is your read on thry?

[Sterling the steampunk]

meanwhile if Sterling flips *scum* I would never in my life leave Faust alive until endgame w how he's been defending Sterling

sheep me today and if Thry flips scum i'll sheep you tomorrow.

BTW what do you by "sheeping" in this context?

[faüstiv]

meanwhile if Sterling flips *scum* I would never in my life leave Faust alive until endgame w how he's been defending Sterling

sheep me today and if Thry flips scum i'll sheep you tomorrow.

BTW what do you by "sheeping" in this context?

sheeping = follow my vote

[thewingfan]

I like those analyses by faust, at the very least I feel like I can firm up my estimation of him as town.

@Thynith, ceejay, what are your reactions? Do you feel as if he's arguing in bad faith, or do you think he's town who is simply wrong about you?

I know this wasn't directed to me but I found my self nodding along to faust's reasoning also.


VOTE: ceejay

[kkirigiri]

I know this wasn't directed to me but I found my self nodding along to faust's reasoning also.


VOTE: ceejay

I don't know if I was quite that far on board with his reads - I still like my vote on Sterling, but I can at least entertain the idea of there being one maf in Thyn and ceejay.
I find it intriguing that you go for ceejay specifically though, especially when you're basically announcing that you sheep his reads, and then not vote the person that faust is actually voting.

Bit of a pity I didn't get to hear from ceejay after I asked him to expand on his reads but before he had so much concrete suspicion focussed on him. I feel like I'd have got a more telling response from otherwise.

stercus accidit

, as the Romans used to say.

[Thynhith]

Thry isn't someone who actually pinged me as scum until I read his ISO. I feel like Thry is making posts which make him 'appear' to be actively scumhunting, but he's not really scumhunting. They're safe, 'radio-friendly' posts which sound pleasant, but aren't thought-provoking or provide anything interesting.

#89:

It's been a fascinating reread. Just want to note that I don't find this entirely satisfying, and Maestro has a valid concern.
1) It's plausible you weren't expecting me pick up on the change to your meta
2) Also plausible you made up an explanation after I pointed it out
Chuck me a link to your prior game and I promise I'll stop harping on

Like this post for example. It's not very controversial. Tonally it reads town, but what is Thry actually saying here? "Just want to note that I don't find this entirely satisfying". Does nothing to pressure the slot.

It's plausible you weren't expecting me pick up on the change to your meta

Other people picked up on this.

Also plausible you made up an explanation after I pointed it out

Possibly, but this does nothing from a scumhunter's perspective. It's just stating the obvious.

Chuck me a link to your prior game and I promise I'll stop harping on

Maybe a stretch but he could have been saying this to look reasonable and look like he is genuinely trying to sort cat? But then again, why not just look at catboi's game history, which can be found in his profile? Why does he feel the need to ask him directly? 87 is a post which reads tonally town and reasonable, but doesn't actually say anything, and there are a few of Thry's posts which are in a similar vein to this.

Finished catching up now. First impression is that there are few telling reads either way. But some interesting interactions.

@Sterling, I think most people want to get a better read on you, but you don't have much content. What are your reads right now? Even better, do you think anyone voting for you is scum?

Like what does this mean?

#126:

My forepromised reads list

Townlean
Maestro - feels pretty genuine/casual, hard to fake for scum.
Kirigiri - her declaration at the start feels too random for scum. But, Kiri, I would like to see you elucidate what part of Rose's first post made you scumread him.

???
Sterling - gut says he is newtownie, need to see more to be sure
Rock and Rose - not enough content
Catboi -

I would like to town read you, but I'm getting too much of a defensive tone. Im sure it will become more clear though. And your latest vote on Sterling - surely as SE you should know better than pushing newbies who have slipped up?

Faust - has quietly gone under the radar? Soft pushing sterling? Not happy with him unwilling to commit himself, very much an evasive attitude, so [VOTE: Faust]
I would like him to explain his own unvote.

Pedit: by that logic perhaps I should be scumreading you

Actually reading this, is this a scumslip? "pushing newbies who have slipped up". I quoted it because he's criticizing catboi for pushing on Sterling which he as also doing, but he's worded it in such a way that he

knows

Steampunk slipped up?

I can think of some uses for elimming him. We get to clear the air, so to speak. So long as we have him in D2 he will continue to be the center of discussion, and later scum will use him as a convenient lynchee. Besides, I still feel somewhat uneasy about his towniness. After getting everyone stirred up with his "scumslip", wouldn't a newtownie be working to regain trust and contribute discussion? Any townie, in fact. It's suspect that he laid low after those first few days, only emerging to post insubstantial comments.

Policy vote isn't pro-town. Why is Thry advocating for this?

#215 he votes Fennec when he's a hot wagon. Interrogating me, his tone completely changes now that I've voted him. Unhappy that I townread three players, two of which, are voteable.

@Faust Oi, respond to this. Does his vote make no impression on your read of him?

It did make me townread him, but now I'm wondering if he's your partner based on #126



I am happy to reconsider my Steampunk read D2 if Thry flips scum, but PLEASE can we vote this today?

You're misrepresenting my posts. I was not in fact scumreading caboi when I made it, but had moved my vote long before. That post was me pushing him for a link so I could confirm his story about meta change. Why would you be expecting me to pressure him? And it means you've haven't even tried to metaread him, because if you did you'd know he's a mod, and that his ISO is cluttered with modded games. I have in fact reviewed his game history, which you would know if you had properly reread my ISO. If you're going to "scumhunt", do it properly? At this point you're just cherry picking posts.

Funny thing, I've ended up turning my mind around. Just did a reread of catboi's posts in my last game, and I think the voting and posting patterns match up. Very much cooperative, liking to ask questions, etc. So let it be known I am townleaning catboi (for the first time).

Actually I switched my vote to you a while ago, I don't think the mod picked it up. It wasn't in vote tags. Initially I was pushing him due to his meta change (which he has explained to my satisfaction) but saw little reason to suspect him since. His tone and style of posting (chunky posts and one-liners) seem pretty much unchanged. Decent effort put into game.
The game feels like its cooled off since RVS and its associated discussion. You are right - the best way to move forward is voting.

"Finished catching up now. First impression is that there are few telling reads either way. But some interesting interactions."
It means exactly what I said. I saw some interesting interplay between folks and Sterling, and wasn't interested in commenting on that. Kind of like you townreading thewingfan, for some reason.

As to the "policy elim", I am astounded that you actually read my post and missed

"I still feel somewhat uneasy about his towniness. After getting everyone stirred up with his "scumslip", wouldn't a newtownie be working to regain trust and contribute discussion? Any townie, in fact. It's suspect that he laid low after those first few days, only emerging to post insubstantial comments."

You're not even cherry picking posts anymore, you're cherry picking sentences of my posts. I mean wtf

His vote makes you townread him? So kiri asks for votes, I vote to pressure him. So that's two votes. Then after I've warmed it, Sterling gets on the wagon and you TOWNREAD him? OMGUS, I don't even want to engage with you anymore