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[Titus]

I keep forgetting about this game. I feel good about Auska town as well.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think its possible to see how I pushed obscure constantly to the front out of the shadows and come to the conclusion I was buddies with them. Like yeah bussing exists but why in the world would I make completely novel attacks on the newness of a player being faked as an attempt to bus my buddy who was under zero pressure?

[DeasVail]

also DV, assuming you are town:

I also am more worried about deasvail the more he continues to just exist on the periphery.

YES

are they still here? This was my scumread yesterday I felt good about.

Dan and Deas I could both see as scum.

is this scum coordinating together? this kinda feels to me more like scum reacting to and amplifying a townpost. I guess it's not impossible scum would see a buddy pushing on a townie and give them a +1 but vibewise I feel like that's less likely. Like the enthusiastic "YES" feels like it's meant more to buddy TSQ in my mind

I did see this post as well, but given the buddying aspect to this is less strong than Obscure's buddying with you, it becomes less significant. Normally I would somewhat townread Shea because of that post about Obscure, but everyone here would normally be a townread for me based on their play and flipped scum.

[DeasVail]

Something_Smart (6): GuiltyLion, Frogsterking, scamper, fireisredsir, Ydrasse, humaneatingmonkey
obscure (3): Dannflor, Thestatusquo, Ausuka
Thestatusquo (2): Gamma Emerald, Datisi
DeasVail (1): obscure
marcistar (1): DeasVail
Dannflor (1): Nero Cain
Not voting (3): Something_Smart, marcistar, Enchant
Day 1 will end in (expired on 2022-09-18 20:44:00)
Mod notes: this was right near my school

who is S_S in for? i'll ISO them first.

@DV he also did this for town

Ahhh, thank you. I hadn't gotten to this post yet. And yeah you were right that I was thinking it was Obscure trying to dumbtell.

Now knowing that Obscure was scum, we get the idea that his style of play was to deliberately look uninformed, to the point of excess. But yeah, I don't think my point about that post on Shea is that significant if he did it with Shea too

[Thestatusquo]

I think its actually kind of weird and pockety for gl to include "assuming you are town" there and I don't know how much town GL would make the claim that scum would openly coordinate with each other in the thread when they have a pt to do that in?

Like it feels incredibly weird that town!GL would pick at that. Like if I'm bussing obscure why he respond by going buddy buddy with me in thread? It seems like deliberately taking a point that should imply obscure and I are not partnered and trying to find any reason to scum read it.

[DeasVail]

I don't think its possible to see how I pushed obscure constantly to the front out of the shadows and come to the conclusion I was buddies with them. Like yeah bussing exists but why in the world would I make completely novel attacks on the newness of a player being faked as an attempt to bus my buddy who was under zero pressure?

I think there are lots of things about your play that I have trouble seeing from scum, but this is not really one of them. It's the sort of attack that at worst makes you look better if Obscure is flipped, and most likely causes town to adopt a "protect the newbie" mindset.

PEdit: I found it weird as well, but why as scum do you think GL is trying to convince me that you're town?

[DeasVail]

sorry i know this isn't actually game relevant but i'm trying to read d1 and my brain absolutely cannot handle datisi's current avatar

it feels wrong, like, on a fundamental level to me

I was actually going to make a post like this as well hah. I liked the letter one better.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think its possible to see how I pushed obscure constantly to the front out of the shadows and come to the conclusion I was buddies with them. Like yeah bussing exists but why in the world would I make completely novel attacks on the newness of a player being faked as an attempt to bus my buddy who was under zero pressure?

I think there are lots of things about your play that I have trouble seeing from scum, but this is not really one of them. It's the sort of attack that at worst makes you look better if Obscure is flipped, and most likely causes town to adopt a "protect the newbie" mindset.

PEdit: I found it weird as well, but why as scum do you think GL is trying to convince me that you're town?

I misread and thought GL was making a point as to me being scum.

This is much more in line with what I would expect townGL to say.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think its possible to see how I pushed obscure constantly to the front out of the shadows and come to the conclusion I was buddies with them. Like yeah bussing exists but why in the world would I make completely novel attacks on the newness of a player being faked as an attempt to bus my buddy who was under zero pressure?

I think there are lots of things about your play that I have trouble seeing from scum, but this is not really one of them. It's the sort of attack that at worst makes you look better if Obscure is flipped, and most likely causes town to adopt a "protect the newbie" mindset.

PEdit: I found it weird as well, but why as scum do you think GL is trying to convince me that you're town?

I just don't think I would ever attack a buddy in that way so maybe I just have a tough time seeing it that way. In my mind the main currencies in mafia are pressure and attention. I don't know why I would ever heavily dump both on a buddy for no reason who I think was doing a decent job of using the exact thing I was calling out to avoid said pressure and attention.

[DeasVail]

Selected reactions to the HEM push by scamper during Day 2:

so i reiterate again: if anyone has actual good reason to townread hem beyond him posting a lot, speak up, otherwise i want u to vote hem

I will reread HEM and get back to you on this, I have him shelved as an early townread but I do not like his recent spat with you and I agree he's felt fairly detached today

I could imagine the HEM-VPB conflicts as distancing. Initial friction 1167, 1171, and then the argument over HEM's readslist (1222, 1262, 1267, 1279, 1281, 1282, 1283, 1284, 1286, 1303). there's a lot of sass and intensity in how they fight with each other but it doesn't seem to actually amount to strong scumreads or votes on each other. the way they talk to each other mainly seems to serve the purpose of establishing an argument between the two more than anything else.

VOTE: Dannflor

I have reconsidered and I like this actually

the S_S progression was kinda ??? and i don't really buy that he went from, like, 'no compelling reason to vote ss' to doing it so quickly. this made me read his iso and i remembered i do not like his opening posts, particularly his gl and marci pushes

the obscure push is like... fine and not really the reason i'm voting him but i don't think it's really town indicative because like it is pretty easy

hem is a slot im just 'meh' on because i feel like i havent read much of his posts in ages. i guess i can iso him later

obscure has a superpower to start posting like the moment they become a topic of interest

much to think about

I was just thinking this.

For someone who claims to be having trouble keeping up with the thread they sure do seem to be able to immediately post every time someone says something about them.

like idk they're saying they're disengaged and not checking in that much and are behind but I think this is like the third time they've popped up IMMEDIATELY to respond when someone mentioned their name.

Like its not that talking about yourself is that big of a tell when you're engaged, its that the immediacy of the response makes me thinking they're much more here and reading than they're letting on and I can't think of a good reason why town would be approaching the game that way.

If obscure is scum I think they're buddies with datisi. There have been multiple times when datisi has jumped into the thread right as pressure was beginning to shift to obscure to ask some unrelated pointed questions that never went anywhere.

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

I'm down to see where this goes. I'm losing confidence in the major wagons and looking at HEM/VPB associatives they look scummy to me. and I trust scamper, and HEM's interactions with him today felt really bad faith

I could imagine the HEM-VPB conflicts as distancing. Initial friction 1167, 1171, and then the argument over HEM's readslist (1222, 1262, 1267, 1279, 1281, 1282, 1283, 1284, 1286, 1303). there's a lot of sass and intensity in how they fight with each other but it doesn't seem to actually amount to strong scumreads or votes on each other. the way they talk to each other mainly seems to serve the purpose of establishing an argument between the two more than anything else.

want to signal boost my own post again and add further that it reminds me of how I like to distance as scum. if you throw in a lot of intensity, saying things like

> "is that the surface level reads i should expect from you from now on"
or
> "[your readslist has] Zero scum, or anything generally that doesn't have the flavor of lukewarm milk. It's a pointless list to make other than it looks like effort"

it makes people feel like you're unaligned because of the sass despite the fact that you're not actually solving each other. They ask a lot of pointed questions back and forth but it doesn't vibe to me like either side had a real agenda to what they were doing (VPB - don't see him trying to really push HEM for lim or rebuff a townie on the right track, HEM - don't see him trying to solve VPB).

IDK this hem counter wagon springing up right as I'm pushing here is incredibly interesting and I think hem and obscure are good flips for that reason whereas I think the SS wagon just felt like whatever to me in terms of the stances people were actually taking.

GuiltyLion actually looks pretty good. Really proactively looked at HEM's posts and helped make the wagon happen.

[DeasVail]

Ausuka's reaction to the HEM wagon is particularly not-great, but possibly too bad to be from scum with HEM.

Imo Shea is probably most suspicious from the HEM wagon. Their presence on the wagon feels as if it's more out of obligation than anything else.

[Ausuka]

I'm glad I've reached too bad to be scum levels

[Ausuka]

I keep forgetting about this game. I feel good about Auska town as well.

Sorry to be annoying but like do you have anything else? How much have you read? I wouldn't expect you to read the entire game or anything but maybe even just looking at the Isos of one of the flipped scum would be fine

[Ausuka]

I agree gl around the hem wagon looks good fwiw

[DeasVail]

I'm glad I've reached too bad to be scum levels

I mostly mean that there’s a demoralised aspect to your posting and avoidance of the HEM wagon at the time that could be reflective of actual scum feelings, but it’s more likely that scum would not let those actual feelings show

[DeasVail]

VOTE: obscure

I'm still not feeling great about this and still need to re-ISO DV, I am taking a train to Portland shortly and will try to do a bit of reading during that, but looking at wagon comp I still like this option much better than DV. MT wagon seems ok but I haven't found the courage to re-evaluate my Gamma townread yet

this is also town from GL (this post happens as MT is being scummy and getting run up)

[DeasVail]

I haven't finished my reread yet but I feel myself settling on Shea.

Pages 190-200 in particular were what turned me around to it. (This is mostly so that I remember where I need to look when I post more about it later)

I will be compiling my thoughts in the most parsible way that I can over the next few days, but I think it would be difficult for the balance to tip in anyone else's favour.

(With where my thoughts are at rn, I'd probably eliminate Titus over Ausuka or GL, but I must admit I still haven't thought that hard about the Titus slot)

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah this progression doesn't feel remotely real.

[Thestatusquo]

Glad you were able to come to the conclusion that you were always going to though.

[Ausuka]

also heya relly

hi! I think you're town because people scumread your entrance to the game in the same way I've seen people scumread you as town like 12 times

I don't have any strong scumreads except, like.... datisi? I sure hope the silent slots are scum

Is it bad i want to bop relly for townreading skitter, hem and vp baltar lole

This might be harsh since he was pushing gamma for a bit, i should review that

[Ausuka]

@skitter - is that not what happens every game?? I've seen what feels like multiple dead threads this year of you speccing a game and calling me scum

i mean fair i suppose but you still feel really wrong and like grating

not like personally but the tone behind your posts is really weird and is just setting off my 'ahhhhhhhhhh something feels off here' meter

and like you're concentrating on the wrong things idk

This doesn't feel like distancing to me

I'm not sure how well to verbalise why but I think part of it is how GL plays it off and doesn't really play around the skitter interaction like he thinks it matters I guess?

[Ausuka]

At times it feels like VPB is just going down intellectual lines of questioning for its own sake instead of like, genuinely seeking an answer that will impact his reads - if that makes sense

this is exactly what i felt as well

im figuring out if it's vpb pushing buttons to generate content or scum trying to fake a push

This also feels anti associative

[Ausuka]

DV I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on GL and baltar

Baltar is one of the weaker suspects of that list, but the early ?suspicion? of datisi and description of whatever Datisi's post was as a reaction test, followed by a lack of much evident effort to clarify his read of Datisi since, feels a bit strange. I could imagine that Baltar as scum would prefer to avoid just easily townreading a town-Datisi, but here he almost seems to be... avoiding the topic.

This on the other hand does feel like a distancey post.

[Ausuka]

ok uh i am going to just make a wall so i don't spam the thread too much

1075 - I think "Maybe I townlean DV. I'd like him to be town, because he certainly seems like a deep thinker" is sort of pockety

1088 - ok I thought i was settling towards a DV push but this post reminded me how Weird relly's progression on baltar actually was on d1 and now I'm feeling unsure again. like he townleans baltar for reasons that don't appear to make much sense and then goes back on it to join a wagon because "it's interesting" without ever like pushing him or saying that he finds him suspicious. Just really bad.

1099 - I don't think I am ever going to vote guiltylion this game

1287 - feels like a relly townpost? idk i don't have strong reasoning the stuff about dats just feels genuine to me

1291 - I feel like this case is better than I gave it credit for at the time, probably because I thought datisi was scum and now I know datisi is town it's easier to see things from scamper's pov. I don't think the case about relly's scumread of datisi is ~amazing~ but like yeah actually his progression on Datisi, like going from 'tunneling' to wiffly waffly, is indeed kinda bad.

1314 - ugh I do not like vpb like pushing relly as town and then ignoring scamper making his case and I feel dumb because I keep swinging back and forth about relly

1431 - maybe partnery

ok i feel lost so i'm just gonna go have dinner and come back later, feel free to tell me one or more of these thoughts are awful

[GuiltyLion]

hey all, just a quick check in, I'm flying out of town this evening so don't have time to really do much today yet but hoping to have some mafia time on the flight, but I've read along

Ausuka I think with respect to your most recent post, if I had to lim between Relly and DV, Relly definitely seems scummier, I follow along with what you're calling out (and I should also reread that scamper case). but then there's all this stuff from TSQ that I like and feels less likely to come from scum unless they're playing really well. which makes me kinda worried as usually early game is best for finding useful info but we can't get any evolution/explanation from Irrelephant on how he was playing, and maybe he was just having a bad game and I shouldn't discount a wealth of stuff from TSQ that I like?

I had also thought previously Irrelephant's overall trajectory on VPB doesn't seem like he's playing to an agenda or knows VPB is scum, but I know a number of players (many of them dead townies) didn't really agree with that. and I do think 883 is probably the single most alarming read, especially knowing skit slot is scum. like even if people are mistakenly scumreading skitter's entrance, that doesn't actually

make

her town and Relly should know better?

definitely want to hear DV articulate his thoughts on 190-200, I will reread those pages again myself but I don't remember anything especially indicative from there that I found