Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[MathBlade]

Gonna try sleeping again.

Lurking attempt 1 million.

[MMR]

@FA
Why am I scum with mastina?
-Rubella

[Frozen Angel]

@FA
Why am I scum with mastina?
-Rubella

well I scum read you for other reasons

"with mastina" part is not what I'm comfortable saying

but that post gave extremely distancing vibes. math unvotes "you agree but you want her to meta case me but you have doubts but you cant read her well but you still scumread her" just doesn't feel genuine to me. its more like you want to have options based on how things go there

[MMR]

@FA
Why am I scum with mastina?
-Rubella

well I scum read you for other reasons

"with mastina" part is not what I'm comfortable saying

but that post gave extremely distancing vibes. math unvotes "you agree but you want her to meta case me but you have doubts but you cant read her well but you still scumread her" just doesn't feel genuine to me. its more like you want to have options based on how things go there

I said that I'm leaning towards town!mastina, which is intended to be interpreted as nulltown.
I genuinely can't read mastina well.
I've literally TRed scum!mastina and SRed town!mastina before.
So you're half-right that I'm adapting. As I read more, my reads change.
-Rubella

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Please take the weekend of quiet and town tell if you’re town.

Okay, MathBlade's town.

Ambivalence gone.

I realize that,

technically speaking

, by talking about my read on MathBlade I basically handed a scuMathBlade a guide into faking exactly this as town and adjusting his scumplay from being something only working temporary into something working longterm.
Technically speaking, that's theoretically possible.

But like.

To be honest: I don't think a scum MathBlade actually does.

Please I hope no one gets mad at me but I don’t think Mastina is lock scum anymore

I don’t know if it’s sleepy me or angry me from shitty work or what.

To be clear I am resetting on her. This isn’t a she’s not scum. This isn’t a she’s not town. It’s something pinged me and I want to reset.

These are both correct

[MMR]

DDS, what is your opinion of prof's 1742?
-Rubella

[Bunnyonce]

I have taken

MathBlade

,

mastina

,

furtiveglance

,

Frozen Angel

out of the PoE for various reasons. But they all generally boil down to the fact that I have varying degrees of townreads on all of them. Aisa doesn't share my townread of

FA

, but upon the re-reading of

FA

's ISO, I decided that I am confident enough to leave her be.

I actually supported the

Scarfmanship

vote. I feel like 1727 is 100% fakeable. It's also a really conveniently fakeable post for a scum to make. It does not antagonise anyone. It provides content without providing content, as the content is very generic and referring to general concepts. I don't think they have contributed much to the game in general either. Another thing I don't like about this slot is 1716. Generating activity in games is a game mod job. From the perspective of town, the volume of posts matters less than the quality of them and the general ability to town sort people from those posts. So yeah, just generating content makes more sense from a scum point of view rather than a town point of view.

~Greeting

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

scum have to just vote another slot that is not their team, and make a compelling case against them. easier for a case to be compelling when its true right?

Easier but not necessary

first you cant get from the "there are no counter wagons" to "she is voted by both scum teams" .

This is kind of the less interesting and important point and I don't want to discuss it further it's a distraction.

your second conclusion is way worse. you saying mastina is town cause both scum teams are voting her makes no sense.

Misrepresentation of what I'm arguing: I am saying both scum teams want mastina dead and thats why she's town, not that they are both specifically voting mastina (though I do also believe that, it's irrelevant to this point)

Mastina is town because both scum teams were perfectly happy to let her die without an attempted counterwagon. There was a period where there was no sense of cohesion behind any vote that wasn't mastina. Both teams were fine with mastina dying. Which means town shouldn't be fine with that.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

DDS, what is your opinion of prof's 1742?
-Rubella

So
Mastina/Bunny/PPF

And

Dingle/Radja/FA

Makes sense

I mean, he's wrong. I think Drapion is wrong on quite a few things.
I find Drapion to be a very untraditional player and thus very hard for me to read. He goes in and he goes in hard, and I think that's probably true regardless of alignment.

I think tictac is probably the more readable member for me and I find him to be very similar to how he was in NQM2 (where he was scum).

[Radical Rat]

That said, that does raise the question--why haven't you interacted much with a lot of people???

The Radical Rat I know does. Like, REALLY does. Like, really REALLY does. Like, does basically exclusively precisely that. Interacting with most, or even all, of the players in extensive detail.

So like--admitting that you haven't? Basically a scumclaim.

Well, for most of the game I hadn't been reading, which does put a bit of a damper on interactions. And that's just because I've been busy/low-energy, which happens sometimes regardless of alignment, especially in Larges.

That aside, I don't actually think this is true? I will generally interact when a post catches my interest, or when I am engaged with first. Sometimes that's a lot of people, sometimes it's not. I also have a known tunneling problem, and tend to let lurkers lurk longer than I should. And that all happens regardless of alignment.

All of that combined with me having a very limited time to read/post with a few hours in between each when there's another batch of pages that cropped up in the meantime... Yeah, I'm not interacting with people as much. If anything I might feel more obligated to at least pretend to as scum...

[Frozen Angel]

scum have to just vote another slot that is not their team, and make a compelling case against them. easier for a case to be compelling when its true right?

Easier but not necessary

first you cant get from the "there are no counter wagons" to "she is voted by both scum teams" .

This is kind of the less interesting and important point and I don't want to discuss it further it's a distraction.

your second conclusion is way worse. you saying mastina is town cause both scum teams are voting her makes no sense.

Misrepresentation of what I'm arguing: I am saying both scum teams want mastina dead and thats why she's town, not that they are both specifically voting mastina (though I do also believe that, it's irrelevant to this point)

Mastina is town because both scum teams were perfectly happy to let her die without an attempted counterwagon. There was a period where there was no sense of cohesion behind any vote that wasn't mastina. Both teams were fine with mastina dying. Which means town shouldn't be fine with that.

You fail to consider that scums are not "forced" to create counter wagons to support their team mates. Its something they can do or they can just

do their things and not force anything to happen

so hopefully their team mate to rescue themself

we don't even know how many team mates a scum!mastina would have possibly. it can be zero (the game is bastard and multiball with mod hinting at possibility of recruits existing) it can be 2 so they would have enough force to push a counterwagon or it can be 1, a solo team mate who thinks distancing from a falling member might be best?

The whole thing is just wifom. without clear information about whats mastinas alignment or more information about the people who voted or refused to vote you cant do proper/clean wagon analysis

[Frozen Angel]

@FA
Why am I scum with mastina?
-Rubella

well I scum read you for other reasons

"with mastina" part is not what I'm comfortable saying

but that post gave extremely distancing vibes. math unvotes "you agree but you want her to meta case me but you have doubts but you cant read her well but you still scumread her" just doesn't feel genuine to me. its more like you want to have options based on how things go there

I said that I'm leaning towards town!mastina, which is intended to be interpreted as nulltown.
I genuinely can't read mastina well.
I've literally TRed scum!mastina and SRed town!mastina before.
So you're half-right that I'm adapting. As I read more, my reads change.
-Rubella

I just got interpretations that you're maintaining such a wishy washy stance over this and each wind is blowing you to a different direction on it.

whats your main scum read right now?

[Maid Cafe]

Bunny has now overtaken MMR in person I want to vote the most. More news at 11

[Radical Rat]

Alright I am mostly caught up now.

Mastina's posting has improved exponentially, to the point where if the rest of the game hadn't happened, I'd probably be townreading her now. But the rest of the game did happen, and I already explained how the whole thing with MathBlade's role crumbs appears to be from a scum mindset (which isn't bullshit meta, just saying), and I still just can't reconcile that. Let alone whatever Yume's deal is.

FA is absolutely correct about all the multiball theory stuff, and it has felt a lot like people are forgetting this game is multiball, in particular with how that means meta tells don't mean shit when you're ideally just playing a towngame even as scum.

I will start looking at compromise wagons, there's not enough time left in the day to be stubborn about that, but I would still strongly urge those leaving mastina to come back.

I'll try to do a proper readslist after work, for my own benefit if no one else's, since right now my reads are pretty much all tangled around mastina in my head

[furtiveglance]

Bunny has now overtaken MMR in person I want to vote the most. More news at 11

I don't agree with these reads, and Maid Cafe is sus for this.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

FA is absolutely correct about all the multiball theory stuff, and it has felt a lot like people are forgetting this game is multiball, in particular with how that means meta tells don't mean shit when you're ideally just playing a towngame even as scum.

I'm not sure who this is directed toward, but if it's me, I'm definitely taking multiball into consideration with my reads

[Enchant]

I don't care about multiball, let's kill atleast someone

[Maid Cafe]

Bunny has now overtaken MMR in person I want to vote the most. More news at 11

I don't agree with these reads, and Maid Cafe is sus for this.

Then vote us-oh wait.

Also having disagreeing reads isn't sus but go on.

[Bunnyonce]

*waves*

Bunny does this sum up your readslist?
Mastina - PPF (Lock Towns)

I'd like to know why you thought this was a worthwhile post.

Wolves hard defending each other.

Assuming this is directed at us, how exactly does your theory fit into my latest unvote?

-Aisa

@prof

, do you not find it worthwhile to engage with our slot at all?

The one CW I would not oppose to is a Bunny CW.
I think they are aligned with Mastina and this last post from them feels like something where I feel is more likely to come from a wolf then town.
“Oh you know pings”

Cause man trust me when I’m a wolf I’ll do stuff like “I’m conflicted”
“If I had to guess probably them” or make like random solves or theories.

That post gives me a wolf making fake reads feel.

If you think we are scum with mastina then what's the point of making a counterwagon to mastina by voting us?

[...]
What about Greeting? Does he have anyone he’s suss on?

Think I'm gonna talk about this in my next post.

Actually my comment about the Math/Mastina read thing might not completely hold.
Since Greeting’s was the one who said they TR Mastina higher and not Aisa.

However, even so I think they should have had a similar read in that regard or have talked about it?

We've talked about it a bit both before and after the post. As others have pointed out, we both TR Math and mastina to some degree, both now and before you made that post.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Greeting and I had a longer catch up and we both agree that we want to vote here.
VOTE: professotic

We're obviously biased by knowing our own alignment, but we don't like Prof's push on us. As far as I can tell, it almost entirely comes down to us being scum with mastina. professotic make the following points:

Spoiler: Point 1

@FA, what do you think of Radja's explanation of why they commented on our post, but not other similar posts?

[...]
Don't think it's Mastina either

Why not?

-Aisa

Just seems towny n that. Granted I only have 1 towngame of experience with em but still

Hot Take:
Bunny is wolves with Mastina and is talking to Furtive!Town here.
Which if you all look is something a wolf can do cause it could be done for serval reasons here that benefit them in that situation.

I’m the opposite.
I think how Bunny indirectly insisted on Mastina by asking furtive about their Mastina read.
I think that is likely what a partner does to try to avoid associating with the other one.

I asked furtive to explain with mastina is Town, which makes my slot partners with mastina.

Spoiler: Point 2

Math let me make something clear to you.

Furtive is less aligned with Mastina then Bunny.

Stop with your damn bias ness boy.

Like look at Bunny trying to push up that Rat wagon.
Bunny was using Furtive and purposely trying to make them look aligned with Mastina.

Your argument is also invalid cause as wolf idk about you but I’m not afraid to interact with my partners the same way bunny is doing to Mastina.

We pushed RR to defend mastina.

Spoiler: Point 3

I don't support voting out

mastina

. I think she's town and her play is no different to what I've seen in my last game with her.

~Greeting

@Math

Bro I’m telling you Bunny and PPF are both mafia desperately trying to save their teammate.

Greeting says he doesn't support voting out mastina, prof takes this as more evidence that we are trying to save a teammate.

Spoiler: Point 4

The one CW I would not oppose to is a Bunny CW.
I think they are aligned with Mastina and this last post from them feels like something where I feel is more likely to come from a wolf then town.
“Oh you know pings”

Cause man trust me when I’m a wolf I’ll do stuff like “I’m conflicted”
“If I had to guess probably them” or make like random solves or theories.

That post gives me a wolf making fake reads feel.

I made a hedgy post which feels like I'm making up reads.

@professotic:

1. Your read on us seems conditional on mastina being scum, but you seem really sure of our alignment. What makes you so confident?
2. What makes any of your points more likely to come from scum defending their partner rather than town?
3. What do you think of mastina's treatment of our slot?

[Bunnyonce]

The one CW I would not oppose to is a Bunny CW.
I think they are aligned with Mastina and this last post from them feels like something where I feel is more likely to come from a wolf then town.
“Oh you know pings”

Cause man trust me when I’m a wolf I’ll do stuff like “I’m conflicted”
“If I had to guess probably them” or make like random solves or theories.

That post gives me a wolf making fake reads feel.

If you think we are scum with mastina then what's the point of making a counterwagon to mastina by voting us?

Also, sorry, I noticed you explained this when you placed your vote.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

VOTE: professotic

[MMR]

whats your main scum read right now?

I thought that you could tell from my vote.
It's prof. I explained it in 1791, 1794, 1811, 1813 and 1843.
-Rubella

[Past Present Future]

VOTE: Prof

[Scarfmanship]

VOTE: professotic

I'm wiling to try it. I haven't liked their weird confidence, plus someone else said they were mafia based on the meta of which heads were posting.

Someone(MMR?) said earlier that we don't know if there are two scumteams or if it is just flavor. Judging by the rules post, which says that the scumteams (plural) win condition requires the other team to be dead and that mod given information is true I'm thinking there are 2 teams.