Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[professotic]

I’m trying to show TicTac in hydra chat that Bunny is a very likely wolf and TicTac don’t see it for some reason.

we disagree on whether logical consistency is ai.

[T-Bone]

With three people openly defending the wagon it wasn't that viable

[MegAzumarill]

VC 1.0.16



Mastina (4) T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, professotic, [E-5]

professotic (3) Bunnyonce, MMR, Enchant
Radical Rat(3) Mastina, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Yume

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) scarfmanship
scarfmanship (1) furtiveglance,
Frozen Angel (1) Radja
Radja (1) Mathblade

Not Voting (3) Ydrasse, Frozen Angel, Past Present Future,


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: 2 Days, 1 Hour*
*Frozen until a replacement is found for Radja.

[Past Present Future]

Actually no I genuinely still want to vote Bunny, @TicTac
Why is bunny town?
Do you not see how the prior stuff said and the readslist doesn’t add up.

They mention FA Town read but doesn’t but it in readslist
They say Mastina above Math but put vice versa in.

It depends on which head is doing which though.

[Bunnyonce]

I think I'm going to unashamedly try switching to a different posting strategy with this game and start being a bit more stream-of-consciousness-y.

I think that my current process of roughly
A. skimming or reading all new posts, B. updating reads, C. considering if I can/should move my vote, D. making one consolidated post to communicate all this
isn't a great match for the pace of this game.

It remains to be seen if I will remember this in two days' time, lol.

Actually no I genuinely still want to vote Bunny, @TicTac
Why is bunny town?
Do you not see how the prior stuff said and the readslist doesn’t add up.

They mention FA Town read but doesn’t but it in readslist
They say Mastina above Math but put vice versa in.

mastina vs Math relative ranking:

-- Other slots have pointed out that Greeting is the one who thinks mastina is townier than Math. I am the one who posted the readslist.
-- You acknowledged this, backsliding means you're not being completely honest with yourself at best.

FA town read:

You point out a discrepancy between posts 46 and 1759. Crazy how I could have changes my mind with >60 pages of posts in between xx

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Being bad at mafia isn't a scumtell, and I think people voting for him for essentially that is sus. He shouldn't have moved his vote off his top scumread to start another vanity vote but a bad move is a bad move.

But on the flip side Prof is acting like he got caught for the wrong reasons. So like...?

Your posting after this shows you already understand this point, but I'm going to hijack this to talk about my thought process anyway

Yes, voting prof is far, far from a 100% scum hit rate, done deal, god's last word type of thing. I understand the concept that Town sometimes makes questionable calls. However, this doesn't imply that we should not scumread players for making badly justified pushes. That's an easy place to hide as scum. Poking and prodding around a read is a decent way of holding players accountable and can help sort.

It's an easy push, but that doesn't make it a bad push.

-Ai (feeling cutesy)

[Radical Rat]

Idk about you TicTac but this is a bad post considering RR knows Mastina voted off of me and that wolves will sometimes intervene into a situation like I believe is being referred to here.

tis kinda standard argument everyone makes when voted.
i have 0 opinions about it.

If you only look at that part sure.

But wolves tend to place themselves in thread a specific way and usually a wolf won’t go too hard on someone so they don’t look that bad after an ML.


Example is here.
If I went over, Radical doesn’t get any blame.
Something wolves tend to do.

If I'm scum in a multiball game, my priority is other scum. It's just objectively the correct way to play multiball scum, so even if you scumread me, you have no reason to doubt my reads/pushes are genuine. The only reason I'd be holding back is if I'm pushing a hypothetical partner for distancing purposes.

Ergo, if mastina thinks I'm pulling punches with you, that only makes sense if she thinks I'm partnered with you, in which case abandoning your wagon for mine does not make sense.

So the only conclusion I can draw is that mastina doesn't actually believe what she's saying.

[T-Bone]

Being bad at mafia isn't a scumtell, and I think people voting for him for essentially that is sus. He shouldn't have moved his vote off his top scumread to start another vanity vote but a bad move is a bad move.

But on the flip side Prof is acting like he got caught for the wrong reasons. So like...?

Your posting after this shows you already understand this point, but I'm going to hijack this to talk about my thought process anyway

Yes, voting prof is far, far from a 100% scum hit rate, done deal, god's last word type of thing. I understand the concept that Town sometimes makes questionable calls. However, this doesn't imply that we should not scumread players for making badly justified pushes. That's an easy place to hide as scum. Poking and prodding around a read is a decent way of holding players accountable and can help sort.

It's an easy push, but that doesn't make it a bad push.

-Ai (feeling cutesy)

No I actually agree that if you thought that event was scummy you're right.

I think people get caught up into trying to find every post someone makes is scummy/every post someone makes is townie and that's just not true.

I don't have a problem with anyone who looked at that situation and thought it was scummy. For me, I did as well, and I weighed it against the rest of the game, and determined it wasn't enough for me to change my read.

[MathBlade]

I exist I am here
Still in reset mode and seeing something play out

This is an elaborate dodging of the prodding

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: RadicalRat

I don't really like this wagon, but I'd rather at least affect the votecount instead of just yelling into the void.

[Bunnyonce]

Anyway, oh dear, what to do with the vote? I would be very happy if one day would go by without me needing to consider this question.

[...] I'm sitting here tv static wondering why MMR/Bunny/Dumb get free rides sob [...]

Pot to the kettle xx
I agree with the sussing of this slot that some have done, particularly whoever pointed out that the effort Maria has put into actually trying to affect the game doesn't really match with the somewhat idiosyncratic reads she has.

RR likelier than Prof or Mastina I think, but all 3 are probably town

See, I'm sympathetic to this line of thought. (Sometimes - I don't want to commit to a read on professotic yet, I will say something about them in my next post.) But I feel like we've been through a fair few wagons and I'm a little tired of thinking, so I'm like hammerhammerhammer

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Would I be horribly out of line in thinking this looks kinda like Drapion going "Well, throwing a fit worked for mastina, maybe it'll save me too!"?

While this is not a bad thought, I feel like a town-RR would push it stronger.

Do you think I'm scum WITH professotic?

Because if you think we're not aligned, what incentive does scum!me have to pull their punches?

I think I disagree with mastina about that interpretation. The Town!RR I know is more of a "state an opinion once and be done with it" kind of person, I don't know if I've ever seem them repeat the same point twice.

However, not sure how I feel about RR's reaction. I've definitely forgotten we were in multiball at some points in this game (which is bad, I know). RR seems more focused on requiring reads to make logical sense than what I remember. However, I also believe them when they say getting rid of the other scumteam is the optimal play from their point of view, so I don't see why this deviation from what I remember of their meta would be scum-indicative. In other words, I have no idea how anyone gets anything done in multiball.

- Isa (still feeling cutesy)

[Bunnyonce]

Bahhh, sleepiness is catching up with me. The tl;dr on professotic is that I think that tictac's read on us is better fmpov than Professor's. Idk, I think our vote being there is still kinda fine and I can tell my brain is not going to be able to do better than that tonight.

-Aisa

[Past Present Future]

I’m trying to show TicTac in hydra chat that Bunny is a very likely wolf and TicTac don’t see it for some reason.

we disagree on whether logical consistency is ai.

I was in a recent game with Greeting and I hard sr them for saying things that really didn’t make a lot of sense to me and that slot wound up flipping town in that.

[Past Present Future]

Rough readslist, as promised. Not doing any proper ISO digging right now, but...

Spoiler:

Town
MMR

Townlean
Scarfmanship
Enchant
Frozen Ange
Ydrasse
T-Bone
Mathblade

Null
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
Radja
Maid Cafe

Scumlean
Furtiveglance
Past Present Future
Yume
Bunnyonce

Scum
mastina
professotic

Not ordered within each tier, and isn't accounting for who's on which team, since I don't have a clear picture of that myself yet.
Pleasantly surprised that I wound up with about the correct number of scum though. I'd be willing to compromise on any of them if we're not doing mastina. Preference is obviously going to be professotic though, like. That is a tremendously overblown reaction for Town to have, and I am once again confused by someone claiming only the dangerous parts of their role without actually giving us the information to properly evaluate the claim.

@RR can you explain this readslist to me? I know you’re pretty decent at reading me, so how do you have me as a scumlean here?

[professotic]

I’m trying to show TicTac in hydra chat that Bunny is a very likely wolf and TicTac don’t see it for some reason.

we disagree on whether logical consistency is ai.

I was in a recent game with Greeting and I hard sr them for saying things that really didn’t make a lot of sense to me and that slot wound up flipping town in that.

Ok but that isn’t the case here.
It’s that the progression doesn’t add up to the readslist.
I suppose the progression could have changed but eh I’m still in doubt.

[Radical Rat]

Rough readslist, as promised. Not doing any proper ISO digging right now, but...

Spoiler:

Town
MMR

Townlean
Scarfmanship
Enchant
Frozen Ange
Ydrasse
T-Bone
Mathblade

Null
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
Radja
Maid Cafe

Scumlean
Furtiveglance
Past Present Future
Yume
Bunnyonce

Scum
mastina
professotic

Not ordered within each tier, and isn't accounting for who's on which team, since I don't have a clear picture of that myself yet.
Pleasantly surprised that I wound up with about the correct number of scum though. I'd be willing to compromise on any of them if we're not doing mastina. Preference is obviously going to be professotic though, like. That is a tremendously overblown reaction for Town to have, and I am once again confused by someone claiming only the dangerous parts of their role without actually giving us the information to properly evaluate the claim.

@RR can you explain this readslist to me? I know you’re pretty decent at reading me, so how do you have me as a scumlean here?

I assume this is Nancy speaking? I can't say I remember playing with you in anything but Double Agency, so I'm not sure where you're getting that I'm good at reading you, but you're a scumlean because while tonally you seem fine, I thought your defense of mastina was too confident given the circumstances. Felt like you'd already had your mind made up about her instead of genuinely considering the points against her. A lot like Yume, really.

I haven't felt it prudent to push directly on that yet though, because pre-flip associatives and all.

[T-Bone]

I'll save us all time. Something something meta

[MMR]

@mod

I'm going on V/LA until 4 Nov
-Rubella

[MMR]

Has prof explained what mastina did to be aligned with Bunny, yet?
I'm not unvoting until I know that the push on Bunny wasn't just focused on Bunny's posts.
-Rubella

[professotic]

Has prof explained what mastina did to be aligned with Bunny, yet?
I'm not unvoting until I know that the push on Bunny wasn't just focused on Bunny's posts.
-Rubella

Maybe try reading instead of faking cause I already stated my opinion on that long before I voted Bunny.
Me and Math were talking about it, where were you for that interaction? Clearly not reading it.

[MathBlade]

To be fair I disagreed with Professor’s Mastina + Bunny solve.

In any case I would elim Mastina in that world.

However I am trying to demonstrate something by staying (mostly) silent this weekend.

Hopefully the experiment will demonstrate what I wanted in the morning.

[MMR]

Has prof explained what mastina did to be aligned with Bunny, yet?
I'm not unvoting until I know that the push on Bunny wasn't just focused on Bunny's posts.
-Rubella

Maybe try reading instead of faking cause I already stated my opinion on that long before I voted Bunny.
Me and Math were talking about it, where were you for that interaction? Clearly not reading it.

I was offsite for the past three or pages.
You never mentioned what mastina did, or if you did, you could've just pointed to it instead.
It's been Bunny for like your entire push.
It's clear that you think that Bunny is making mastina partnered with them.
And no I'm not faking, I genuinely don't get why you're not trying to work with me.
-Rubella

[MMR]

And if you are actually Town, which I don't think, it is especially good for you to collaborate because Mafia isn't a game with one Town player.
-Rubella

[MMR]

That'll be the last thing from me until my V/LA ends.
-Rubella