Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[T-Bone]

That's all right, because if she dies and flips town, I will just shove her posts at all of you until all of you remember them.

I will team up with both scumteams to elim you.

Seconding this

[T-Bone]

Enchant and I are masons now. Just used my masonizer power.

[Yume]

That's all right, because if she dies and flips town, I will just shove her posts at all of you until all of you remember them.

I will team up with both scumteams to elim you.

You would go so far? Well, I am flattered.

[mastina]

I don't like trying to line up who I think mastina's partners are (read: I am still very enthused about her death and scumflip),

Funny, it's almost like the reason people haven't done this (barring callouts of Yume/PPF/DDS as buddies), is because I'm not actually scum with anyone and they know it, and that if they did the work it would show.

[Yume]

Enchant and I are masons now. Just used my masonizer power.

No me.

[mastina]

last game i modded mastina died d1 and yume basically kicked rocks around for a while being upset over it

(I had commentary to give for this but I'm losing steam here and I think that it's not something worth really going into, not that important.)

Almost done btw, so gonna requote the most important things and then claim after that.

[T-Bone]

2822 proof Mastina is an adult and could handle the commentary during catch up you owe me a soda now Yume.

[Yume]

2822 proof Mastina is an adult and could handle the commentary during catch up you owe me a soda now Yume.

[mastina]

It's a week old so I guess I better do 1.1 patch actually.

Oh I was originally planning to do snark in response to this where T-Bone previously stated he had townreads on my wagon but then quote this post (which is chronologically later) and point out the

lack

of townreads in it, but since it was snark and not really leading anywhere, not really worth it when I'm this short on time. (I'm already past my bedtime so I gotta go fast.)

I'm skipping a lot, including engaging more unwnd posts, probably more MB talks that could be productive, etc., but I'm kinda fading fast so like, I need to rush. Make sure there's not anything vital but I think I'm ready for rehash into claim time. On that note:

But if Mastina is not scum with X team then Mastina is really really unlucky in some things she did/said
The amount of sheer coincidence would be ridiculous

You have noooooooooooo idea.

(I do tho. From the moment people started pushing the 6-scum thing of me, I have known about the sheer coincidences and how ridiculous they are. Because while I didn't remember my full role PM and remembered it half-wrong, the one part I remembered is a part that implies recruitment mechanics and recruitment mechanics imply less than 6. As I've said since, I believe there's 6 and that the bit in my role PM is a red herring, butstill. It is "sheer coincidence that is ridiculous" as you'd say. Which again, is why I didn't want to claim originally, but after rereading my role PM I need to.)

[T-Bone]

I mean if you want to get technical I have no town reads just a sliding scale of people I think are more/less likely to be town/scum.

[mastina]

Rehash Part One:

The laziness of "mastina elimination best for gamestate

Titus would a 'i told you so' be enough of a reward if mastina was just limmed?

I have a post on this, lemme pull it up.

There's a part of me that believes she's doing it out of spite to get one over on those of us with an incorrect read.

I mean--explicitly so, yes! I've been QUITE clear about my stance on this:

If you can't tell that I am town from what I have posted so far in the game, you don't deserve to. Ever. (Hope that wording's okay.) If you think you have any form of tell on me that comes to the conclusion I am scum--I know I'm town so no fucking duh, I am gonna be smug when you see the townflip.

I've gone through enough shit in one week that I, well and truly, don't give a damn.

There are things that I am obligated to do--share my thoughts on who I think is scum, share my thoughts on who I think is town.
Some stronger than others.

But putting any work into saving myself? Not among the things I'm obligated to do.

Every single vote on me has bullshit reasoning. Literally every single one of them. There are NO valid reasons to vote me, here.

Even the "just end the day" logic, even the "this will continue tomorrow if not resolved today" logic, even the posts about it being content revolving around me making a toxic mindset

?

Bullshit logic.

But while the reasoning used to vote me is absolute shit--literally none of it is worth responding to.
If I have other reasons to engage with a post with bullshit reasoning, I will still engage with the post.

But by default, just not worth the effort. You can't see I'm town, you don't deserve to. You claim you read me as scum, you have no fucking clue what you were talking about. I don't really care to prove it, because the flip does that for me. So, yes. Not bothering to try. And yes, out of spite.

My spite won't stop me from sharing reads.
But I've no interest in defending myself, not in of itself at least.

Your logic is exactly the highlighted logic and it is bullshit.

The town is fully capable of changing the gamestate on their own. Fights with me be damned. I'm a facilitator for activity, sure, and have caused some bitter fights this game, yes. Those are not the death-spirals those who want to push mastina votes are pretending they are. Those are not things that kill the gamestate and even if they did--the conclusion from them is not to remove me. That is all lazy reasoning and explicitly, a breeding room for scum to hide because "voting mastina for the health of the game thread" is not stating an alignment read on me. It is not trying to resolve me. It is not trying to sort me.

It is lazy and it is either bullshit (from the town who should fucking know better) or scum (from those who see the convenience in the narrative).

The actual fact of the matter is that with the extra time granted by the frozen deadline and the benefit of said time and distance, there was a

surge

of productivity in the game.

professotic went from not wagoned, to top wagoned, to not wagoned again, in that time, from people not having them on their radar, putting them on the radar, and then later concluding (mostly at my behest) that they are not actually scum.

And there is a fairly young Radical Rat wagon there, less than 48 hours old, that has had a chance to form/develop--which these voices going back to the "mastina and the toxic gamestate" viewpoint are

actively shutting down

.

That's lazy from town and scum-motivated from scum.

Yes, there was fatigue.
Yes, there was a time where people ran out of time/energy.

But then, we took the time to step back and distance ourselves--and there was a surge of reinvigorated energy.

The narrative of mastina-is-hurting-the-town was, probably (if I am being at my most self-critical), true--

at a time

.
There WAS a time during this day phase where it was true.

It's not anymore, and pretending it is is, explicitly: not updating arguments to reflect the new gamestate.

That's not inherently scum, because lazy town be lazy.
But it is something that scum do because it's convenient and easy to hide behind.

The town is fully capable of changing the gamestate on their own. Fights with me be damned. Those are not the death-spirals those who want to push mastina votes are pretending they are.

That is all lazy reasoning and explicitly, a breeding room for scum to hide because "voting mastina for the health of the game thread" is not stating an alignment read on me. It is not trying to resolve me. It is not trying to sort me.

The actual fact of the matter is that with the extra time granted by the frozen deadline and the benefit of said time and distance, there was a

surge

of productivity in the game.

There is a fairly young Radical Rat wagon there, less than 48 hours old, that has had a chance to form/develop--which these voices going back to the "mastina and the toxic gamestate" viewpoint are

actively shutting down

.

The narrative of mastina-is-hurting-the-town was, probably (if I am being at my most self-critical), true--

at a time

.

It's not anymore, and pretending it is is, explicitly: not updating arguments to reflect the new gamestate.

These parts bear particular reiterating.

The gamestate did NOT stall.
The conclusions did NOT become inevitable.
The game did NOT circle back into the same.
The situation HAS changed, and evolved.

The narrative that the game is still the same as it was a week or two ago is, explicitly, not reflective of reality.

I wanted to explain this better but it's ultimately less important in of itself.

I want to be clear though that the town ALWAYS has a choice.
The town ALWAYS can choose.
The town ALWAYS has the power to set their own fate.
We are NEVER locked into a mastina elimination.
We are NEVER locked into a mastina-always-pushed.
We are NEVER guaranteed a better gamestate with my elimination.
We are NEVER forced to eliminate me.
We are NEVER in a place where it's impossible to move on with the game with me alive.

It is ALWAYS possible to do anything in the day phase, ESPECIALLY with the eternally frozen timeline.

To not do so IS a choice. And an incredibly lazy one, at that.

The laziness of the wagon on me is inexcusable from any town on it outside of MathBlade/T-Bone/professotic. They're not lazy.
And the logic is also easy for scum to use.

Which brings me to the next part.

[Radical Rat]

I do hate to extend this further, it's past my bedtime as well, but why do I get lumped in with the lazy group when I DO have reasons that I HAVE articulated, and not one of them has ever been about ending the day/improving game state/whatever?

[mastina]

Rehash Part Two:

What the laziness implies

It’s more there’s a lot of

posting

but very little pushing

This applies to MY wagon, too, MathBlade.

You're pushing.
professotic is pushing.

T-Bone is pushing.

Try telling me the rest of the voters on me have been pushing me.

They really, really haven't.

Because the wagon on me is very, very lazy. I've said "lazy" this whole time, but maybe you would understand me saying lazy in my posts better if I worded it every time as "lot of posting, but very little pushing". Because that's true of them.

I also feel like I should state:
Usually, you think of pushes as on scum.

But there

are

pushes beyond pushing players as scum--a strong strong strong defense of a player being town is still a push, it's pushing them as being town.

There are players strongly pushing me as town.

There's not players strongly pushing other wagoned slots as town.

There are precisely three players pushing me as scum.

The rest are not.

I have made several pushes. You might disagree with them and that is justified since at least two I now believe were on town (you, professotic), but you can't disagree with me having made pushes.
I've pushed.
My defenders have pushed me as town (albeit not pushing players as scum).
You, T-Bone, and professotic have pushed me as scum.

But literally every other player in the game has not pushed players as town OR scum--and it's in those zero-pushers, those lazy posters, that you'll find the scum.

And that list?

That's {MMR, furtiveglance, Enchant, Maid Cafe, Scarfmanship, Bunnyonce, unwnd, Radical Rat, Frozen Angel}.

Obviously, that list is too large considering the number of scum in the game.
But that list should contain

all

the scum in the game. Imo, not most; ALL. (I understand if you think it's only most, tho, but you should agree that it's most.)

And from that list of nine, you need only get the three towniest players to have a list of scum form. It's my belief that the towniest of the lazy players are MMR/furvie/Enchant. Which by default, leaves the scum as Maid Cafe, Scarfmanship, Bunnyonce, unwnd, Radical Rat, and Frozen Angel.

And finally,

Rehash Part Three:

Reads

My reads right now have fairly good base:

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons, Yume, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (comfortable moving them up here)} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{MathBlade}

VIBED TOWN:
{MMR, T-Bone}

LEAN TOWN:
{furtiveglance, Enchant, professotic (may be up there with MB, not quite sure)}


??? (could be PoE scum, but hard to lock down for sure)
{Maid Cafe}

{Child of Fairies/Scarfmanship}

REASONABLE CHANCE OF SCUM:
{Bunnyonce}

SCUM:
{Radja/unwnd}

{Radical Rat, Frozen Angel}

This Rat wagon is soooo bad.

I'm not gonna claim that it's scum free, because obviously, it's not.

But it's still a town-driven wagon.

Radical Rat(8) Mastina, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Yume, furtiveglance, Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, Ydrasse, Scarfmanship [E-1!]

I'm town.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is town. Period. This is Klick as town.

Yume is town. Period. This is unnegotiable. She is locktown of locktown, never scum here ever.

Past Present Future is town. Period. This is all three being town. Never scum ever, locktown of locktown.

Ydrasse is town. Save the Dragons was in his town meta and Ydrasse has continued to show herself to be town since replacing in.

So where are the sum?

The only

options

(not guarantees, just OPTIONS) are {furtiveglance, Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship}.

That's a MAXIMUM of three scum,

if

you believe that all three are scum.

For every name you see as town in those three, the number of possible scum on the wagon falls.

Suffice to say: no, not scumdriven. It's at least 5/8 town.

In contrast:

Mastina (7) T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, professotic, Mathblade, unwnd, Enchant

I believe T-Bone, professotic, and MathBlade to be town in here.

But only those 3.

There's four possible scum on the mastina wagon.
{Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, unwnd, Enchant}.

Enchant's hop-on looks like scum saving a scumbuddy.
unwnd's replace-in radiates scum.
And Maid Cafe has been looking more and more scum.

Are all four scum?

Not unless I'm a god gamer scumhunter. (I am not a god gamer scumhunter.)

But are all four town?

Fuck no! There's guaranteed scum in there.

I would say 2-3 of RR's scumteam on mastina wagon (actually this is mandatory--even if FA is a scumbuddy, then unless MMR is the third or RR had a bussing scumbuddy, there is a minimum of two RR-scumteam on the wagon);
~0-2 of opposite scumteam on the RR wagon.

(FA scum off the wagon so I don't think it's all scum on both.)

If I had to guess,
{Radical Rat, Enchant, unwnd} (so yes all 3 on me) as one scumteam;
{Frozen Angel, Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship} as the other.

(Okay so it's Radical Rat + 2/3 of {Enchant, unwnd, Maid Cafe} for one scumteam, actually. I just think Enchant scumtold, and that unwnd fits better as an RR scumbuddy.

It's Frozen Angel + 2/3 of {Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship, remainder-from-the-above} for the other. Thinking about it more, I somewhat doubt that Bunnyonce and Scarfmanship are scum together so I think my revised second scumteam is Frozen Angel + Maid Cafe + 1/2 of {Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship}.)

These are

slightly

out of date, but between the three you get a good base, so to update them:

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons, Yume, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (comfortable moving them up here), MathBlade} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{professotic, T-Bone}

VIBED TOWN:
{MMR}

LEAN TOWN:
{furtiveglance} (both tiers of lean town apt, just furtive's more town than Enchant)

{Enchant} (both tiers of lean town apt, just Enchant has a higher scum equity imo)



PoE scum? (hard to lock down for sure)
{Maid Cafe}

REASONABLE CHANCE OF SCUM:
{Child of Fairies/Scarfmanship, Bunnyonce}

SCUM:
{Radja/unwnd, Radical Rat, Frozen Angel}

The locktown here, I don't think I'm ever wrong on. I've explained all but MathBlade up there extensively but MathBlade being town I think has become clear enough that I don't need to.
T-Bone, basically he's the only player in this game to have given incredibly nuanced thoughts on me with a hard consistent push on me in a way insanely town and his thought process on every player he talks about feels town, everything he does looks town.

professotic, the Professor half in particular looks town, their hydra dissonance looks town, and I can

see

the town from tictac.

I don't think I'm wrong on any of the above.

{MMR, furtiveglance, Enchant} all

could

be scum, but MMR feels town from all three heads and their interactions. I wouldn't touch them until everyone below on my list is flipped.

{furtiveglance} I've explained, basically furtive isn't the same furtive as Datisi's Cafe. It's a weak townread, could be wrong, but his thoughts look town enough for now.
Enchant is a wavering read but his current look is a good one.

Maid Cafe is being replaced but they are where Radja was--not really looking town in any way, when I have a lot of townreads that are solid.

Scarfmanship and Bunnyonce both look like scum.

unwnd is scum with Radical Rat.

Frozen Angel is in her scum meta.

I've explained all the scumreads except for Maid Cafe fairly extensively (okay maybe I should do more on Scarfmanship/Bunnyonce? But I don't think I really need to, scumreads on them aren't exactly hot takes, so like--after I'm gone y'all probably lim them anyway and thus, not as important), so from there we get pairings.

{unwnd, Radical Rat} needs a third.
My earlier notes say not-FA but yes-Bunnyonce.

My earlier notes say Maid Cafe is not partnered with Radical Rat, so not them.

I realize that both Bunnyonce and Scarfmanship were part of the L-1 wagon on RR.
So I realize that at least one thing I would normally assume is wrong.
A townread wrong;
Earlier interactions wrong;
Voting not clearing them from being partnered.

One of those three has to be true, because there's no scumteam possible for all of them. (Well, I

guess

teams of two? So make that four assumptions.)

So either there's a townread wrong (for instance, Enchant scum, but I currently lean against it),
Or the early interactions were wrong (one of FA/Maid Cafe scum with RR/unwnd),
Or the voting of RR was not clearing.

I lean the third. It could be Bunnyonce (50-50 there on yeah-def-partners and wait-definitely-not), but actually, scarfmanship fits quite well. The vote was reasonless, and Scarfmanship's RR stance throughout iso looks highly partnery.

So my current scumteam guesses would be,
{Radical Rat, unwnd, Scarfmanship}
{Frozen Angel, Maid Cafe, Bunnyonce}

I admit I've not done as much research as I'd like but I'm trying to get to claiming so I'll have to accept this as a rush job.
It's reads + teams, which is 90% where I want to be. (I do have a few extra thoughts to give tho.)

I probably should add more, rehashing the town/scum but I think you get the idea.

Next post is gonna be my claim.

[mastina]

Alright so NEXT post is claim, I owe this an immediate response.

I do hate to extend this further, it's past my bedtime as well, but why do I get lumped in with the lazy group when I DO have reasons that I HAVE articulated, and not one of them has ever been about ending the day/improving game state/whatever?

Both the reasons used being comparatively shit and the strength for which you posted.

You have not pushed.

You've stated reasons.

You've not pushed.

[Scarfmanship]

Laziness is NAI. Deal with it.

[Scarfmanship]

You write a lot of words to hide a desperate attempt at what you see as your best chances of survival: push on the people least likely to be able to fight back.

[mastina]

The Claim:

Don't expect anything groundbreaking. I've repeatedly reiterated that my claim won't save me. It's important information to have, but it isn't something that makes me any more town and from a surface level can even look more scum.

I'm a Town Limited Astrologer.

During Noons (so, effectively, in normal games, even-night), I check for the attunement of my target.

The attunements in the game are Sun and Moon.

All Solar Cult Members have a Sun attunement;
All Lunar Cult Members have a Moon attunement.

But attunements aren't just for scum.

Some town are sun attuned, some town are moon attuned, and this is not randomly done. (It's a pregame thing apparently.)

Given that, I genuinely don't know the strength of my role. When I confirmed I said "so something between gunsmith and rolecop in strength, I guess", which is about my estimation. It's hard to say, I don't think anyone can really know until we see the whole setup.


My role PM specifies I'm limited in who I can target. (This is the wording I'd expect RR to have.)

I can't target the same player twice (not 'twice in a row', twice at all--once is it). (This part is obviously specific to me.)

But, some things can prevent me from targeting a player. (This is the wording I'd expect RR to have.)

I'll be informed in the event of that. (This is passable as specific to me, given I am an investigative.)


Radical Rat's claim lacking the "limited in who you can target" and "some things can prevent you from targeting" sections, is why I think their claim is suspect.

I'm afraid that's it. I warned you it wasn't groundbreaking, but I've gotten all my thoughts out and shared my info and why I think it implicates RR so I'm done now.

[mastina]

(I do have 'crumbs but I am going to bed, if it's THAT important and you want it and I'm alive tomorrow I can fetch them, and explain why I thought MathBlade's crumbs were breadcrumbing my role.)

[Scarfmanship]

Yes, one of your crumbs was when you said you would reveal people's true colors, right?

[MathBlade]

(I do have 'crumbs but I am going to bed, if it's THAT important and you want it and I'm alive tomorrow I can fetch them, and explain why I thought MathBlade's crumbs were breadcrumbing my role.)

I would like them but it’s not as urgent. More so that hopefully this doesn’t happen again.

What would happen if you check the attunement of a player and they weren’t Sun or Moon?

Say Dawn or Dusk?

Is every player explicitly Sun or Moon?

[Scarfmanship]

What if each cult can only recruit people of the matching attunment? Maybe we don't want to tell people what our attunment is. Ie. which phase we can act in.

[MathBlade]

And I no longer think we should elim Mastina regardless of her answer btw.

That was one of the few things Mastina could be town for.

If anyone can make a private hood with me and Mastina alone I’d be super grateful.

[T-Bone]

I have no attunement,mention of attunements, or anything like that in my role PM.

So, I'm just looking for someone else, without revealing their role, to just give an indication that they see something similar in theirs. Preferably someone I lean town on, so like a Nancy/Titus or I dunno Enchant?

[Enchant]

But if you claim you are LIMITED (it's literally in name), it makes sense for RR to not be limited.

So literally ???? what your accusation is.

[Enchant]

I don't know if i have any attunmntent.