Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

[Grib]

What are the odds that this team has two mafia goons?

Vig/Doc/Masons/whatever Eira might be vs goon/goon/???

[Frogsterking]

Hold your horses, I found some leads in Grib's ISO. I got a chai latte earlier which didn't have enough kick for me, so I'm actually grabbing some more laundry money and headed back to Starbucks again so I can drink something with more horsepower while I compile my thoughts.

Here's a sneak peek of what's to come:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transference

My ideas are based partially on the concept of transference and how it applies to mafia. There's a chance this may have caused me to misattribute some of Grib's motivations onto those he was interacting with.

I don't think Frog is scum

I'm not enjoying playing with them

I don't know what to say. I feel like apologizing because I get toxic a lot headed toward the late game (which I then don't actually reach because I get mislimmed), but in this case you were the one who told me to kill myself and my family, so it feels like I would be a self-loathing people pleaser if I apologized? I'm about to get solvey so maybe it will be easier to work together since you seem to like that?

If you're Town then it's best we don't fight for the next 24 hours. I'm open to constructive criticism on my ideas (as long as it's constructive.) If you're scum though then feel free to come at me, it will help me read you

PEdit:

I don't think so because that's what the role "checkers" are for. That is like...their only ability, to know if their ability was roleblocked. Their actual ability itself has no effect on their target.

[Enchant]

What are the odds that this team has two mafia goons?

Vig/Doc/Masons/whatever Eira might be vs goon/goon/???

I had game with Loyal Vig.

[Grib]

A normal game?

If so, I hate this website.

[Grib]

Yeah, it's a "normal" modifier. Gross.

[Frogsterking]

What are the odds that this team has two mafia goons?

Vig/Doc/Masons/whatever Eira might be vs goon/goon/???

I had game with Loyal Vig.

Oh yeah do you remember what happened between Crescent and I in that endgame we reached? I think that's the only endgame I've gotten to play in forum mafia (that was also the game where I replaced into Fire's slot halfway thru.)

[Grib]

Think I'm gonna take a break from the thread. I'll check in tonight, if there's anything interesting.

[Enchant]

A normal game?

If so, I hate this website.

I have hate-love relationship.

[Aisa]

Claims (or "claims"):
Frog - Doctor - protected TSQ N1, protected Enchant N2.
Bella - Complex Vig - vigged HPE N1, did not act N2.
Not Mafia - Mason
Aisa - Vanilla Townie
Elements - Vanilla Townie
Grib - Vanilla Townie
Enchant
Eira

I'm catching up now, will be on and off for a couple hours.

First thought:

I'm a complex vig. I should be able to shoot in the VT claims and have what is basically an inno? Or am I wrong?

This doesn't quite work for the reasons others have pointed out - you could get roleblocked, you could accidentally target the same person Frog is protecting, you could target a Mafia Goon.

However, you should still be able to shoot a VT, and you won't be able to kill them if they are truly a VT. So if your target doesn't die, this doesn't prove their innocence, but if they are a VT, they definitely won't die.

So that people don't have to look it up:

Complex is a role modifier that modifies the way in which an active action is used; it causes the action to fail, as though it were roleblocked, when used against a player who is vanilla. In other words, only power roles will be affected by a Complex action; other players are too simple to be worth your while.

Actually, would you even be able to tell the difference between a roleblocked result and a vanilla result?

Bella would not be able to tell the difference between being roleblocked and her action failing because she targeted a Vanilla.

[Enchant]

I am VT

[Aisa]

Aww look at him, he can't resist not making a serious claim xxx

Also, I just hope everyone is doing ok and I'm sorry to read several of you are kind of having a bad time.

I got a chai latte earlier

Good choice!

[Frogsterking]

Aww look at him, he can't resist not making a serious claim xxx

Also, I just hope everyone is doing ok and I'm sorry to read several of you are kind of having a bad time.

I got a chai latte earlier

Good choice!

Thank you.

[Frogsterking]

I don't think Frog is scum

I'm not enjoying playing with them

I am sorry I upset you by the way. It's not true that only you were toxic because I did troll you because I was bitter that you wagoned me so hard, especially after I had to out I was rubbing it in your face and I think that is just as mean as what you said. I don't really believe you did anything wrong because you seem to have a method you were following which is objective and I'm not entitled to not being scumread and wagoned. I also think you may be right that it's

partially

my fault people wanted to vote me because I did disappear from this game a lot and I barely posted or worked on my reads after D1. In my mind I told myself that I was playing well because I was avoiding the NK by being quiet but I think in reality I was lying to myself and being lazy.

[Aisa]

I'm assuming Bella and Frog are Town.

Spoiler: Aisa's Bad Setup Spec

I'm working off the assumption that the open setup Friends and Enemies is balanced (13 players, of which 3 Mafia Goons, 3 Masons, 7 VTs).

Is running Friends and Enemies as a closed setup more or less townsided? Unclear, but I'd say maybe it makes it a smidge more townsided.

Ok, so is (3 Goons) vs (2 Macho Masons, Doc, Complex Vig) more or less townsided? Unclear, but probably around the same ballpark? The Vig can do damage, but if it does it's a confirmable role. The Doctor's existence is also strongly implied by the Macho modifier, lending credence to Doctor claims. The thing is, if there are no Mafia PRs, Complex Vig is kind of an evil role.

What about (2 Goons, Roleblocker) vs (2 Macho Masons, Doc, Complex Vig)? This probably isn't that much more scumsided than the above, given the RB doesn't have much to roleblock.

(2 Goons, Roleblocker) vs (3 Macho Masons, Doc, Complex Vig) seems a bit townsided since it's essentially Friends and Enemies but with extra power for Town?

[Aisa]

I don't really know what to say. It would kinda fit for Eira and NM to be the two scum but if they are not, then I am once again in trouble land. I'll go and reread Eira because I haven't reevaluated that slot in uh, a while.

All of elements / grib / enchant seem towny in some ways, although my brain has just decided to cook up that Elements and Grib could be scum together
;

CSF the true joker, cackling maniacally between VCs.

[Aisa]

I need to at least attempt to push someone before I can sleep, or we'll have a repeat of Day 2, won't we?

I know I said I would look at Eira's posts, but I actually went and looked at that recent scumgame Elements linked. (Why oh why does this Warwick Mafia place have a way to share a thread on MySpace, but not a way to ISO someone?)

Also,

[Enchant]

It's balanced if:
ALL mafia are Mafia Goons, or only one of them is PR.
Vig can only confirm self by killing Mason or Doctor.
Doctor....... Well, it's doctor.

[Aisa]

Sorry about the accidental submit.

This is the Elements scum game I was reading
https://warwick-mafia.freeforums.net/th ... eater-idea

I didn't know what I was going to say about the game yet and I still don't know

[Aisa]

I mean, I guess that if you squint Elements looks a bit less lamisty in this game than in that game, but overall what I got out of it is that Elements is a menace and could still be scum.

Ok, seriously onto Eira now.

Also, WATCH ME CHAINPOST

[Aisa]

Ok, seriously onto Eira now.

Update: Oh no
Oh NO

[Aisa]

...but then the ISO gets exponentially better??

[Bellaphant]

@grib, I got cold feet. I kicked myself for not just shooting nm..that's the elim I think I want today anyway, honestly?

Yeah, I guess at least I have to have slightly positive utility in that I don't shoot a claimed pr and at least then I can't kill? I would assume scum only have pr now.

[Aisa]

UNVOTE:

anyway i'mma sleep. i'm still not too sure how i feel on grib, theyve felt green to me most of the game so rn i can't keep my vote here without a case no matter how dodgy i feel theyve been rn, especially with how fast things might move while im away

have fun ya'll ; )

Let's hear the case, if you have it

I still don't know if Eira's posting in this game can be scum, I guess I'm more willing to entertain it than before.

Boi, at least one of you is scum but sure looks towny.

[Aisa]

Bella, do you just think everyone else is towny or?

[Enchant]

You need wear socks as vigilante