Community

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: Kokabiel

[The Bombay]

It is not a matter of having a ton of reads, which is what they seem to be trying to turn it into, it is a matter of scope.

The entirety of Koka's iso prior to our vote (3 posts)

Spoiler:

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

JUST the delegation?

Smart penguin.
Would be funny if two people come to replace him.

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

JUST the delegation?

I am kind of thinking that StarPower appearing to not know that there is a 3rd party makes them more likely to be town.

Seriously doubt that the actual 3rd party would not be too self-conscious to frame it that way, so imo town>scum>3rd party

I can also see it as a 3rd party slip because he got excited and wrote his raw thoughts without thinking. Agree that it's less likely to come from scum tho

Other then jumping on a single thing from StarPower, who are they trying to sort? Who are they asking questions to?

Just some examples off the top of my head: Did they have thoughts on furtive's claim, did they have a reaction to Bell's reaction? Did they have thoughts about me in light of my response to their only stated suspicion? No clue, because the only thing in the entire game that was apparently worthy of comment on was exactly 1 star power post.

-----

The fact that their reaction to our vote was to attack, instead of asking any kind of questions (like I don't know, "why are you scum reading me?" or "was that a serious vote") shows that they are more interested in attacking / discrediting us, then sorting us.

I am even more happy with our vote then before tbh.

~Luke

[Kokabiel]

Welp this is awkward...
I asked Marci on the read so when you answered i thought it was her who answered.
Sorry Luke!

I'm going to do some stuff to cool off from embarrassment now

[Passenger]

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

Must be scum out of ideas.

Also, saw 2 different people taking this seriously.

I am pretty sure that this was a sarcastic/ joke post from Bell. Which made passenger latching onto it as an excuse to vote DeasV pretty bad.

I wasn’t using it as an excuse to vote DeasVail, I thought that DeasVail’s post was weird before I even saw Bell’s post, and then when I turned the page and saw his post it clicked in my mind.

[Passenger]

Also how do you even come to the conclusion that I’m using Bell’s post as an excuse to vote DeasVail? I add on to Bell’s post and provide my own reasoning on top of it.

[Frogsterking]

If partner equity is going to become a theme, I'd like to propose Passenger has partner equity with N.Y.M and Flavia. When players are hyper accurate (like I

sometimes

am on D1) it can force scum to make scumtells they wouldn't ordinarily make (like chainsawing.) I can link to you at least one completed game where scum were forced to react this way to me. 135 looks... unnatural to me? It pings me in a way Passenger's posting hasn't done yet. I feel there can be an element of projection in it where Passenger accuses me of approaching other slots in bad faith while they themselves manufacture a case by misrepresenting my motivations.

I'll admit Koko was a part of my team solve I mentioned earlier, but now with more information (from their wagon piling on) I feel their reaction to pressure is more indicative of a Resident who is wrongly accused.

Also yes I may as well out my team solve is N.Y.M/Flavia/Passenger, it was previously N.Y.M/Flavia/Koko.

My opinion is that there is an element of Price's Law at play, where Flavia and N.Y.M are abandoning thread control and Passenger feels motivated to take up the reigns as a more active scum poster.

I'll wait a little bit longer before I get into my ideas about hunting for the Dictator.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: kokabiel

Spoiler:

-Marci

Awww how cute~

can you vote kokabiel

-marci

This, on the other hand, is NOT cute at all. I fail to see how calling acquaintances to join a... RVS? vote is town behavior.
I doubt scum would blatantly call their buddies like this so thats one association down.

Why didn’t you ask me?

can you vote kokabiel?

Yuck. Can totes see this as a scum theater.

I feel like getting wagons happening is a pretty common way of moving the game out of the early stages. Has your experience been different?

[DeasVail]

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

rcan you please explain what you mean by “make posts AI in your head?”

I tend to think that most posts are probably NAI, at the end of the day. But particularly in the early game I think it’s helpful to think about whether particular posts are more likely from town, and to push on anything that might be from scum. For the posts made thus far, I had some thoughts along the lines of “this could be from town”, but then also counter-arguments in my head about why what I thought was town, wasn’t necessarily.

For example, I agree that Star Power’s post isn’t particularly indicative of scum, but I also can’t townread that post. In the end it’s just a colourful way of saying “let’s kill scum!”

I see. There are more to posts than what the post boils down to, there’s wording, tone, etc, but I get where you’re coming from.
UNVOTE:

This feels like a pretty quick backtrack on a vote that you felt you had reasoning behind. What changed your mind?

[Passenger]

can you vote kokabiel

-marci

This, on the other hand, is NOT cute at all. I fail to see how calling acquaintances to join a... RVS? vote is town behavior

Why do you think it’s scum behavior?

The vote itself isn't bad, it's the fact that she is calling other people to join it. Pushing someone without any reason is dumb and anti-town.
While anti-town doesn't necessarily mean scum, it's the best thing i have right now and getting rid of people like this in absence of better alternatives is a great move.
I decided to scumread this instead of seeing it as bad town because i doubt she would make such a blunder as town.

Now that you know that Marci had reasons to push you, how does that change your read? Also, why do you not think that marci would not make such a blunder as town?

[The Bombay]

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

Must be scum out of ideas.

Also, saw 2 different people taking this seriously.

I am pretty sure that this was a sarcastic/ joke post from Bell. Which made passenger latching onto it as an excuse to vote DeasV pretty bad.

I wasn’t using it as an excuse to vote DeasVail, I thought that DeasVail’s post was weird before I even saw Bell’s post, and then when I turned the page and saw his post it clicked in my mind.

Also how do you even come to the conclusion that I’m using Bell’s post as an excuse to vote DeasVail? I add on to Bell’s post and provide my own reasoning on top of it.

Maybe "as an excuse" is the wrong word, but you definitely framed your vote as you agreeing with Bell

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

Must be scum out of ideas.

This is also what I thought. It seems like DeasVail is playing from the point of view of someone who is looking over posts with a checklist of tells to appear useful, rather than engaging in actual solving.

VOTE: DeasVail

Like I said, I think I used the wrong words when I said "as an excuse."

Dumbing down my reaction to the post to make it more clear what I am saying that I saw, is I felt like I was reading "Yes, I agree with you, fellow townie, this *is* scummy. Lets vote this"

Framing your suspicions as agreeing with someone else feels like an approach that scum would take. It was compounded by the fact that I don't think that Bell was serious, so it felt like you were not closely reading either Deas or Bell's posts there.

Anyways, I am more interested in in Koka atm, but that was my gut reaction to reading your vote post.

~Luke

[Flavia]

This doesn’t make sense, because Marci’s vote was clearly RVS. From this incorrect premise Kokabiel comes to the logical conclusion that Frogster is town and DeasVail is scum. Her assumption that Marci is scum for her naked vote is an NAI overreaction.

Do you agree with that logic or are you saying is making sense based on Kokabiel logic. Cuz I'm not seeing it.


Also, the miller claim. Never played with one. But from what I've read, it's basically a claim that's usually treated as "consider it true for the moment cuz we can't really disprove it". That's why I don't see much in Bell's reaction- said that it could be totally true, but could come from either town or mafia who played with a miller.

[Passenger]

If partner equity is going to become a theme, I'd like to propose Passenger has partner equity with N.Y.M and Flavia. When players are hyper accurate (like I

sometimes

am on D1) it can force scum to make scumtells they wouldn't ordinarily make (like chainsawing.) I can link to you at least one completed game where scum were forced to react this way to me. 135 looks... unnatural to me? It pings me in a way Passenger's posting hasn't done yet. I feel there can be an element of projection in it where Passenger accuses me of approaching other slots in bad faith while they themselves manufacture a case by misrepresenting my motivations.

I'll admit Koko was a part of my team solve I mentioned earlier, but now with more information (from their wagon piling on) I feel their reaction to pressure is more indicative of a Resident who is wrongly accused.

Also yes I may as well out my team solve is N.Y.M/Flavia/Passenger, it was previously N.Y.M/Flavia/Koko.

My opinion is that there is an element of Price's Law at play, where Flavia and N.Y.M are abandoning thread control and Passenger feels motivated to take up the reigns as a more active scum poster.

I'll wait a little bit longer before I get into my ideas about hunting for the Dictator.

How specifically am I misrepresenting your motivations? As for 135, I found it very hard to follow the specificities of your interaction with Kokabiel so I wanted to logically map it on paper before I came to a conclusion.

[Flavia]

If partner equity is going to become a theme, I'd like to propose Passenger has partner equity with N.Y.M and Flavia. When players are hyper accurate (like I

sometimes

am on D1) it can force scum to make scumtells they wouldn't ordinarily make (like chainsawing.) I can link to you at least one completed game where scum were forced to react this way to me. 135 looks... unnatural to me? It pings me in a way Passenger's posting hasn't done yet. I feel there can be an element of projection in it where Passenger accuses me of approaching other slots in bad faith while they themselves manufacture a case by misrepresenting my motivations.

I'll admit Koko was a part of my team solve I mentioned earlier, but now with more information (from their wagon piling on) I feel their reaction to pressure is more indicative of a Resident who is wrongly accused.

Also yes I may as well out my team solve is N.Y.M/Flavia/Passenger, it was previously N.Y.M/Flavia/Koko.

My opinion is that there is an element of Price's Law at play, where Flavia and N.Y.M are abandoning thread control and Passenger feels motivated to take up the reigns as a more active scum poster.

I'll wait a little bit longer before I get into my ideas about hunting for the Dictator.

If it becomes a theme- maybe I should figure it out what this partner equity is.

And you've figured it out I'm mafia all the while back. Your confidence is impressive...though very wrong. But I'm really curious...how did NYM got into that team. And when did we abandon threat control when I posted very little and NYM posted- exactly once.

[The Bombay]

I think that Flavia's recent pop in (160 and 162) is incredibly scummy.

Like, the fact that when she came back to the thread, the thing she had to comment on was furtive's miller claim and bell's response from page 1, and then flashed forward to the current page to defend against a scum read pointed her way, and then left the thread with no comment on anything else.

It makes it feel like she wanted to make a comment on *something* but also did not want to touch any of the current discussions with a 10-foot pole.

~Luke

[DeasVail]

I think that Flavia's recent pop in (160 and 162) is incredibly scummy.

Like, the fact that when she came back to the thread, the thing she had to comment on was furtive's miller claim and bell's response from page 1, and then flashed forward to the current page to defend against a scum read pointed her way, and then left the thread with no comment on anything else.

It makes it feel like she wanted to make a comment on *something* but also did not want to touch any of the current discussions with a 10-foot pole.

~Luke

I kind of had the opposite reaction to flavia’s posting. It more gave me the impression of town just posting thoughts coming to their mind rather than being particularly agenda-based. I also liked her comment in relation to the early suspicion on me (I think scum would have been more likely to just let that play out) and the comments about psychoanalysis felt weird in a genuine way?

[DeasVail]

Also NYM is becoming more and more likely to be scum

[Bell]

It is weird that only one of them has posted.

[Bell]

VOTE: Flavia

Seems like a fun wagon.

[The Bombay]

The difference is that Marci invited you, whereas Dease invited himself. Marci can invite anyone, so how would that make it SvS?

I do agree with you that it felt weird when deasnails invited himself to your wagon like that, it felt like he was a pick me and just wanted to be on my side lol, but I didn't really pay that much attention at the time since I was more focused on you.

can you vote kokabiel

-marci

This, on the other hand, is NOT cute at all. I fail to see how calling acquaintances to join a... RVS? vote is town behavior

Why do you think it’s scum behavior?

The vote itself isn't bad, it's the fact that she is calling other people to join it. Pushing someone without any reason is dumb and anti-town.
While anti-town doesn't necessarily mean scum, it's the best thing i have right now and getting rid of people like this in absence of better alternatives is a great move.
I decided to scumread this instead of seeing it as bad town because i doubt she would make such a blunder as town.

pUsHiNg sOMeOnE wItHoUt aNy rEaSOn iS dUmB aNd aNtI-tOwN
first off, I did have a reason although it wasn't super solid. not sharing ≠ no reason. if you really cared enough you could've asked... instead you jumped to defensive lol
second, who are you? "i doubt she would make such a blunder as town." is a personal statement that implies you know a bit about me and how i play.... but thing is i've literally done this before so what bullshit tree are you trying to plant?
i'm willing to back down, but you aren't really showing me any reason at all as to why you could be town right now. Right now how I view you is kinda survivalistic.. like in the way I think 3p would be. It looks like you're just trying to shut

me

up since it seems like you scumread only me and not luke. The fact that your only real reads are on people who've voted you isn't a good look. I think you overreacted for the amount of votes you

did

get.

S
Marci said she wanted to vote Koka because her iso was "beyond useless"

Marci please enlighten me with the amazing reads you got from pages 1-3. Luke has been doing all the lifting for you so far and i can't say i'm impressed even as a joke.

This reads snarky for...no reason..? I haven't even posted all day while being at work.. It did give me a moment of doubt ngl, but give me something to actually tr you on, anyone can do this as any alignment.
Maybe you should think about giving reads first before asking for them.

Originally I was going to vote for Flavia instead of you actually, but I thought more about it and decided it was more just playstyle differences.
Originally I didn't like froggie (for 11) but after thinking about it and talking to luke I've decided to wait a bit on that before deciding. Though is still not best vibes IMO
Bells alright so far. Penguinpowers prob alright? I like Passenger the most.
^ These don't limit only to the first few pages, though looking at it reminds me of it.

Luke is right, it just seems like you aren't trying to get a better understanding of anything.

-Marci

[Flavia]

It makes it feel like she wanted to make a comment on *something*
~Luke

That part might be true. I try to talk more.

Maybe, but it was an observation related to my question to furtive.

Current discussion? Well, I am here: Kokabiel is convinced asking for votes on them is scum. Plus the whole inviting vs invited being a sign of town/mafia. Nope, don't agree with this logic but I don't think mafia would be so willing to put it all on that hill.

Frog- they made it clear they scumread me from the beginning. I was sincerely curious how they came to the conclusion the team is me/Passenger and the person who posted once.

[furtiveglance]

I townread Passenger and The Bombay.

[Frogsterking]

I think that Flavia's recent pop in (160 and 162) is incredibly scummy.

Like, the fact that when she came back to the thread, the thing she had to comment on was furtive's miller claim and bell's response from page 1, and then flashed forward to the current page to defend against a scum read pointed her way, and then left the thread with no comment on anything else.

It makes it feel like she wanted to make a comment on *something* but also did not want to touch any of the current discussions with a 10-foot pole.

~Luke

I kind of had the opposite reaction to flavia’s posting. It more gave me the impression of town just posting thoughts coming to their mind rather than being particularly agenda-based. I also liked her comment in relation to the early suspicion on me (I think scum would have been more likely to just let that play out) and the comments about psychoanalysis felt weird in a genuine way?

I feel like it's worth self-reflecting about your strengths and weaknesses in your Town game and whether they are inversely proportional to my own based on the stage of the game (early, middle, late game.) I'd like to see if you are willing to do this because I'm currently considering an FoS on you and how you react will inform my read.

Consider:

VOTE: Lammolde

I believe with a

moderate

level of certainty this is a scum flip. It's mostly based on tone but there are a few things I can point out that are concrete. I think the tone read is reliable in this case because Lammolde hasn't played in 5 years so they're having a hard time pretending to scum hunt.

I was playing anti town by lying (concealing) but I think it's good play because I wanted to give Lammolde time to spew their team, and I tried to breadcrumb that my read flip is coming:

VOTE: Lammolde
Why does your gut say it’s Frog?

I just read the roster and got bad vibes from his name i guess. You can get a townie point for pushing things along. Enchant gets a scummy point for post #6.

Lammolde,

Is there any reason you can't post a list of your reads so far?

UNVOTE: CSF VOTE: BBT

Breadcrumb something something

That vote on BBT was a filler vote because I wanted to wait on voting Lammolde until I questioned them.

VOTE: Lammolde
Why does your gut say it’s Frog?

I just read the roster and got bad vibes from his name i guess. You can get a townie point for pushing things along. Enchant gets a scummy point for post #6.

Imo scum would stay as semi-active because the silent people are most sus and prone to vote wagons and investigation; And if they are the most active, people would start thinking "Why aren't they dead yet" later on and put them to vote wagons and investigation.

These posts are scummy by tone and I think are written with the sole purpose of obtaining Townreads, ie 40 and 83 are the reaction I think these were fishing for. I believe the fishing part with a

low

level of certainty and the scummy by tone with a

moderate

level of certainty.

Lammolde,

Is there any reason you can't post a list of your reads so far?

#1 To be honest

,

#2 i am simply incapable of making any conclusion out of fluff(Not sure if this is the accurate term) posts meaning i have no read on:

Enchant, Roden, MalaKittens, BBT, Cakez and Tet. When i see posts like "Gameboy advance content" or "mew" the only thing that pops into my mind is ...ok then. Since this is early on in day 1 the only town reads i have are due to the fact that some people are active and trying to advance talks by asking questions etc.

#3 One observation i made is that Bella was not really into this game when she posted:

VOTE: Frog
My gut is right around 30% of the time. Haven't played in 5(?) years and the only one i remember from the people here is Bella.
She was scum in my first newbie game if anybody cares.

Did I flake? I can't remember you, sorry! I don't like this post though

If she payed a bit of attention she would notice my account is brand new. My name, avatar and ip address are all different. The question would then be "What was your main account's name".
So does her not paying attention at that moment mean she isn't really into this game thus making her scummy?

#4 Maybe. Maybe she was feeling bad, or maybe she got a boring role thus the lack of enthusiasm. Maybe people don't look at avatars and account creation dates and only look at names.

I do not know

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#1

This is qualifying and implies they don't feel entitled to post in the thread.

#2

This is a simple excuse not to post reads while shading other players.

#3

This is an attempt to pocket MariaR by supporting her indirectly against Bella.

#4

This is a nasty hedge/fence sitting on Bella.

I feel

moderately

certain on #1, #2 and #4, and

low

certain on

#3

.

Kudos to you Frog for sticking to this as much as you did. UNVOTE: Frog

And finally I think this is a pretty blatant attempt to pocket me. I'm

highly

certain this is an attempt to pocket me, and my feeling is that it comes from scum, but I can only be

low

certain it's an actual scum attempt vs another one.

The main things gained from waiting on pushing Lammolde is that they shaded the fuck out of Bella and Enchant and maybe tried to pocket MariaR as well as Roden I think. I think the biggest thing learned is that I think Enchant is Town. Let me write up some examples here.

(Etc. Etc. these posts went on forever, in this game I was the SK milking my D1 reads--which were all correct IIRC--for Town cred.)

VOTE: lammolde
I'm sold

Is it bad that I'm not?

I'm not sure how much there is to be gained in winding up lammolde even more but I could be wrong about that too

Lammolde has been yeeted day 1. they were a

mafia JOAT (roleblock, strongman, ninja)

.

the sun sets, it is now night 1. sunrise in (expired on 2022-09-24 23:45:00).

as they haven't posted in the last 24 hours, Roden and SirCakez must respond to the nightstart pm to let me know if they're still playing.

[Frogsterking]

I townread Passenger

Congrats, you have now ensured your survival to endgame.

(I'm half-joking, you may be right for all I know, it feels a little presumptive to me though)

[DeasVail]

Frog I get what you’re saying, but you being right on a read and me being wrong on a read in one game is not something that affects my approach all that much.

[Passenger]

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

rcan you please explain what you mean by “make posts AI in your head?”

I tend to think that most posts are probably NAI, at the end of the day. But particularly in the early game I think it’s helpful to think about whether particular posts are more likely from town, and to push on anything that might be from scum. For the posts made thus far, I had some thoughts along the lines of “this could be from town”, but then also counter-arguments in my head about why what I thought was town, wasn’t necessarily.

For example, I agree that Star Power’s post isn’t particularly indicative of scum, but I also can’t townread that post. In the end it’s just a colourful way of saying “let’s kill scum!”

I see. There are more to posts than what the post boils down to, there’s wording, tone, etc, but I get where you’re coming from.
UNVOTE:

This feels like a pretty quick backtrack on a vote that you felt you had reasoning behind. What changed your mind?

I jumped the gun on scumreading you when you said that you were trying to “make things AI in your head.” I buy your explanation and I don’t think it’s scummy.