Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)


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Post Post #3900 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:46 pm

Post by MegAzumarill »

VC 2.0.5

Image

MMR (5) Radical Rat, T-bone , Mastina, Yume, Past Present Future [E-3]

Mastina (3) Unwnd, Furtiveglance, firebringer

Past Present Future (2) Scarfmanship, Mathblade,

furtiveglance (1) Dingle Dangle Scarecrow,


Not Voting (4) Ydrasse, MMR, Toogeloo, Enchant,

Deadline: (expired on 2022-11-14 21:51:23)
With 15 alive it takes 8 to eliminate.

Last edited by MegAzumarill on Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Imprefection is the spice of life.
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Post Post #3901 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:46 pm

Post by MegAzumarill »

Replacing Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
Imprefection is the spice of life.
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Post Post #3902 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:28 pm

Post by Dingle Dangle Scarecrow »

Hello, we're here, just both busy

VOTE: MMR

I've been lightly skimming, and this seems to be the right play simply because MMR's claim actively conflicts with both mastina and PPF?

I'm not sure why MMR would make a claim that poor as scum, but it seems correct to lim them here
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Post Post #3903 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:45 pm

Post by MMR »

In post 3902, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:I've been lightly skimming, and this seems to be the right play simply because MMR's claim actively conflicts with both mastina and PPF?
It doesn't.
It only conflicts with mastina.
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Post Post #3904 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:46 pm

Post by MMR »

In post 3895, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3894, MMR wrote:And actually, I think that we should target each other if we both survive today.
-Rubella
Nope

Both should target same person. Don’t care who besides me.

Then both should get same results. Claim in first post,
I think that we should target DDS then.
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Post Post #3905 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:01 pm

Post by Dingle Dangle Scarecrow »

In post 3903, MMR wrote:
In post 3902, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:I've been lightly skimming, and this seems to be the right play simply because MMR's claim actively conflicts with both mastina and PPF?
It doesn't.
It only conflicts with mastina.
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You're Loyal and your action didn't work on PPF

What reasonable explanation do you think makes PPF potentially not scum?
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Post Post #3906 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:14 pm

Post by MMR »

In post 3905, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:
In post 3903, MMR wrote:
In post 3902, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:I've been lightly skimming, and this seems to be the right play simply because MMR's claim actively conflicts with both mastina and PPF?
It doesn't.
It only conflicts with mastina.
-Rubella
You're Loyal and your action didn't work on PPF

What reasonable explanation do you think makes PPF potentially not scum?
We could've been blocked or PPF could be Ascetic Town.
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Post Post #3907 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:15 pm

Post by Dingle Dangle Scarecrow »

PPF has already claimed not ascetic unless I'm misremembering
You're not a sensible roleblock target when there are already powerful claimed PRs, and even if you were, that explanation should be much less likely than 'the Loyal part of my role worked as intended'
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Post Post #3908 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:23 pm

Post by MMR »

In post 3907, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow wrote:PPF has already claimed not ascetic unless I'm misremembering
You're not a sensible roleblock target when there are already powerful claimed PRs, and even if you were, that explanation should be much less likely than 'the Loyal part of my role worked as intended'
I see.
The TR on PPF was only testing reactions.
I thought that it was obvious that I wouldn't TR a slot just from their response.
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Post Post #3909 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:23 pm

Post by MMR »

And I don't TR them anymore.
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Post Post #3910 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:36 pm

Post by Dingle Dangle Scarecrow »

There's been enough concern for pages about your lack of scumread on PPF (and a big enough wagon) that it's difficult for me to just accept that as an explanation at face value
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Post Post #3911 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:39 pm

Post by Dingle Dangle Scarecrow »

But it also doesn't feel like this is the route that three individuals and their scumbuddies would choose to take...

UNVOTE:

I'm going to discuss with Bella. I need to consider how likely it is that MMR is town and also consider how important the utility of flipping MMR to confirm mastina/PPF's alignments is.
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Post Post #3912 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:40 pm

Post by Dingle Dangle Scarecrow »

In the meantime, I'd like to hear from anyone who thinks there's a logical explanation for MMR to have botched their claim as badly as they have as scum. Their play seems actively self-destructive as a scum play and I would love to hear reasons that's not the case.
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Post Post #3913 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:41 pm

Post by MMR »

DDS, what is your read on Toog?
Something about them voting Math and then instantly unvoting when asked if it was serious, feels somewhat off.
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Post Post #3914 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:44 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3818, furtiveglance wrote:This is so bad it has to be scum, especially the first bit. It's not realistic compared to how town think, even town mastina.
Funny, I wasn't aware that attempting to solve the distribution of scumteams in a multiball was a non-town thing and unrealistic to be done.

Today I learned!

Maybe in future towngames I won't solve the game then!

Clearly not a thing actual town players do.



...Now I admit. I didn't finish it to my satisfaction. And the thoughts were tied more loosely than I'd prefer. I basically went into an ADHD mode where I started with one post and ended up with an entirely different post because the point I was originally making shifted into a different one that I couldn't finish.

But like.

A valid scumhunting tactic is, person by person, listing every possible pair (pair, not full team), as viable vs. not viable.
And then, removing the not viable ones, list every possible three-person team.

I didn't do that to the extent I was aiming for (I lost my lucidity too quickly), but I was using that same methodology.

I used some shortcuts--I left out every combo involving those that I am locktowning (because they are all town, natch).
And I didn't properly lay out every combo.

With seven players, there's, ah, lemme math it out fast,
{1, 2}
{1, 3}
{1, 4}
{1, 5}
{1, 6}
{1, 7}
{2, 3}
{2, 4}
{2, 5}
{2, 6}
{2, 7}
{3, 4}
{3, 5}
{3, 6}
{3, 7}
{4, 5}
{4, 6}
{4, 7}
{5, 6}
{5, 7}
{6, 7}

...21 possible two-man combos.
And after you remove the combos that are basically impossible, you can narrow down the resulting 3-man combos.

Now, I need to redo the list and do it better. The above formatting?

I need to do it as, well,
{MMR, unwnd}
{MMR, furtiveglance}
{MMR, Firebringer}
{MMR, Scarfmanship}
{MMR, Toogeloo}
{MMR, Radical Rat}
{unwnd, furtiveglance}
{unwind, Firebringer}
etc.

I can do that!

I just need to be more lucid than I was at 5:45 am last night, and more lucid than I am right now. (I'm as tired right now at 1:45 as I was at 5:45 last night. I dunno why.)

It would be useful to do.
I just need to find the time and lucidity to do it, and it's not a top priority because I don't need to find the exact scumteam, I just need to find a scum. Which I have.
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Post Post #3915 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:48 pm

Post by MMR »

By the way, mastina, why are we scum with furtive?
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Post Post #3916 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:53 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3823, Scarfmanship wrote:
In post 3810, mastina wrote: If you really don't care which of the two you want to eliminate, why are you still on PPF and equaling the wagons, rather than MMR to tip the wagons in one direction?
'cause I think PPF is solar and solar acts tonight, now because interacting with you and PPF is the pinnacle of unproductive content,
PPF is not the pinnacle of unproductive content and saying they are is disingenuous as fuck.

Nancy is giving reads almost every post.

Those reads are constantly shifting.

Those reads are constantly changing.

But everyone voting Nancy for not giving reads is literally lying their asses off when they say she isn't giving them.

She has changed her vote how many times this day phase? Has to have been at least eight times.

Every time she changes her vote that post is accompanied with reasons why she feels her current vote is worth voting.

That ain't unproductive content. That is content that gives tangible things to interact with and engage with and leave a legacy with.

It's not organized all into one place.

But it ain't absent, either.
In post 3823, Scarfmanship wrote:idgaf about meta, i haven't played on this site in something like 6 years.
And I have explained why PPF is town without using meta:
In post 3413, mastina wrote:Nancy is literally the easiest player to read onsite. Genuinely, literally, the easiest.

Any player who has ever played with her before and doesn't insist meta is trash,
Should be townreading her--a lack thereof from any meta-user is genuinely a scumclaim.

It's hard for me to describe why she's town without using meta because I know the meta is right.

But, basically: a town Nancy is incredibly active (a scum Nancy, far less so), incredibly emotional (a scum Nancy, far less so), incredibly erratic (a scum Nancy, far less so), all over the place, not strategic, not focused, is basically ADHD manifested both the attention deficit part and also randomly hyperfocusing on things and ignoring things to focus on one specific thing which she locks onto. She has an energy. She knows she is town and this affects her worldview. She is extra prone to OMGUS behaviors, because with her knowing she is town, she has a FIRE on those scumreading her because in her eyes, there's no way that player could be genuinely scumreading her because clearly if they were town they wouldn't be scumreading her.

And THAT is the Nancy we have
this
game.

There's also the combined meta of them specifically in a hydra. Titus has a hydra town/scum meta, so does Nancy; they're both in their town hydra meta.

Of course there's pushback to them being scum--because they're self-evidently not.
Nancy has shown incredible thought progression and engagement in the game in a way that scum are incredibly unlikely to have.
Nancy has shown emotion that is incredibly unlikely to come from scum that know they are scum.
Nancy has shown a perspective of believing herself to be town and knowing it to be so obvious that any suspecting her are more likely to be scum.

While those are all augmented by meta, they are also generically town traits. Nancy has shown constant evolving thoughts, and given countless contributions, having given thoughts on basically every player in the game. She has never once been in anti-spew mode. She has never once avoided explaining her stance when directly posting about the player she holds that stance on. When engaging with a scumread she gives the reasons for the scumreads.
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Post Post #3917 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:55 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3826, Ydrasse wrote:let it be known i faked results on titus once and it worked wonderfully for me
On that note:

Titus in Datisi's Cafe in response to a guilty on her made a fakeclaim, a fakeclaim she botched but a fakeclaim all the same.

Titus in this game is not responding to the guilty on her with a fakeclaim.

You can argue that Titus has learned, but I think the far more likely argument is simply that Titus isn't actually scum this game and doesn't feel pressured into fakeclaiming.
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Post Post #3918 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:56 pm

Post by MMR »

Hey, uh. I kinda checked out late Dusk 1, but I saw that we had a guilty result last night and figured there wasn't much to say today. Fully intended to stay checked out until I saw Rubella mention we were probably getting mis-elim'd in the hydra chat. I asked why and started skimming and uh...yeah idk why we aren't voting PPF. I thought we had a guilty, since it doesn't make sense for scum to block us instead of a claimed PR, and an unclaimed Ascetic modifier from PPF would still just be a scum claim.

VOTE: Past Present Future

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Post Post #3919 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:01 pm

Post by Enchant »

Why you didn't say you was informed
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Post Post #3920 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:05 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3827, MathBlade wrote:For someone who is “confirmable” you’re just not acting like it.
MathBlade can you seriously tell me that you have never seen a town player with a confirmable role ""not act like it"" by letting emotions take control?

Especially a notoriously emotional player?

'Cause let me tell you a secret:

Town players do not always act like robots.

Town players do not always act in the way you would expect them to act. (If someone wants to bring this up in regards to MMR I would like to note I have explained already why I don't believe MMR is a town player acting in an unexpected way.)

Town players do not share some universal outlook in how to treat their roles.

Especially not when the town player in question is Nancy who has one of the most "out there" styles in the game.


Have you never seen someone with a mason-like role out of spite refuse to confirm themselves?
'Cause I have.
Heck I've
been
that player.

You need to judge the players off of their emotional state, and what they are likely to do
in that emotional state
as town versus as scum.

As scum, Nancy WOULD act like a player with a confirmable role. She would rely on the role to clear her, because she would know her play wouldn't cut it. For an example of Nancy as scum doing this, I can point you to Nancy's iso in this game. She was "confirmable", and
acted that way
. Acting like she was confirmable was her best shot at not being eliminated as scum.

As town, Nancy doesn't act like a player with a confirmable role even when she has one. I can point to basically every Nancy towngame ever for this, because Nancy as town doesn't act the way a player with her role "should", because Nancy's viewpoints differ from those of most players and she is influenced by her emotional state.
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Post Post #3921 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:09 pm

Post by MMR »

In post 3919, Enchant wrote:Why you didn't say you was informed
I made up the Informed part based off information inferred in our role PM.
I thought that claiming Informed would make people pay more attention to it and think about it if we got flipped.
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Post Post #3922 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:10 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3833, MathBlade wrote:I have been trying really hard to be cooperative here.
You and I have very different definitions of cooperative, mate.

(I should note that I am not cooperating with others, so don't take the above to mean "I mastina am cooperating, you MathBlade are not". I am well aware that I am not cooperating with others, but as someone who isn't cooperating with others I find myself qualified to say that you are also not cooperating with others. You're acting like me, just on the opposite side of me. So neither one of us is cooperating because we're both doing the same exact thing, just mostly in opposition to one another.)
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Post Post #3923 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:10 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3838, T-Bone wrote:But MMR has gone beyond simply botching a role claim. While I can believe town can botch a claim, MMR in general trying is to pretend it didn't happen. If I had a role result that implicated another player as scum I would not stop to follow through on it. I feel like everyone else on the playerlist would do so too. It feels like MMR is just hoping we stop talking about their claim. It goes beyond botching a claim. They've had so many days to clarify their claim, lay everything out clearly, and try to lead an elimination based on it and they haven't.

So I think MMR is the correct vote today.
This.
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Post Post #3924 (ISO) » Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:14 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3923, mastina wrote:
In post 3838, T-Bone wrote:But MMR has gone beyond simply botching a role claim. While I can believe town can botch a claim, MMR in general trying is to pretend it didn't happen. If I had a role result that implicated another player as scum I would not stop to follow through on it. I feel like everyone else on the playerlist would do so too. It feels like MMR is just hoping we stop talking about their claim. It goes beyond botching a claim. They've had so many days to clarify their claim, lay everything out clearly, and try to lead an elimination based on it and they haven't.

So I think MMR is the correct vote today.
This.
And I think enough time has passed for me to reveal another play-based reason for MMR to be scum:

MMR contains Roden.

In Datisi's Cafe, Roden on D2 claimed, unprompted, and I pushed Roden as scum for both play AND mechanics for his claim, eventually getting him mislimmed on that day.

It is Day Two, the same day as the day Roden got mislimmed.
MMR claimed unprompted, the same casual way that Roden claimed unprompted in Datisi's Cafe.
I have pushed MMR as scum for both play AND mechanics for their claim.
MMR is the main wagon.

So tell me.

Why has Roden given
absolutely NO
acknowledgement to the parallel?

Why isn't Roden saying something like "not again..."?
Why isn't Roden upset at me?
Why isn't Roden commenting on the similarity?
Why isn't Roden frustrated?
Why isn't Roden angry?
Why isn't Roden feeling defeated?
Why isn't Roden stating apathy, actually specifying "I don't care anymore"?
Why isn't Roden spiteful?

Why is Roden not acting at all like he was in Datisi's Cafe in similar circumstances?

To me, the answer is obvious--the reason Roden isn't doing any of those things in this game is because in this game, he's actually scum.

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