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Post Post #350 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:31 pm

Post by GnKoichi »

Nameless, to imply that I'm arguing semantics because I am expecting people to use the actual meaning of words is ridiculous. If there were a different way he could have meant that, that would be semantics. But no, he either gave himself away or he used the wrong word. It's not my fault that I called him on it. But thank you for catching Kmd's inability to analyze my post.

Kiro, that's a pretty good argument. I am basing all of my voting on the idea that my Charter/Wall-E theory is correct. I still believe this to be true (did anyone else notice that Charter called on a suspicion of OP, and then Wall-E voted for him without any reasons of his own?). But I see your point. If you take my scumbuddies theory away, then what Wall-E does is heavier evidence against himself, and the same for Charter's own actions. I want to go with my gut and get Charter out, but Wall-E looks pretty damned in this light.

*sigh*

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Post Post #351 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:06 pm

Post by Wall-E »

Kiro: GnKoichi's off my list because, well, he was never on it. I've always had a town read on him.

charter's off it because the reasons I thought he was scummy for turned out to be clerical errors on my own part, pointed out by Nameless, who attacked me for being mistaken (and thus my participation dropped off).

Because the reasons you inquire about are strictly personal, I can do little to dissuade or encourage any other lynch at the moment.

Furthermore, as this spotlight's focus continues to narrow upon me I remain unable to perform my usual duty/service to the town...

I'm actually a big baby and when things go wrong I tune them down/out or blow them up.

Currently I'm blown up. I'll still keep up with conversation, but the kind of in-depth analysis that (so far) has netted me 100% scum has to be put on hold until I get my mojo back.

Still a bit upset with Nameless, but I think my perception of things will cool enough for me to get a more unbiased read eventually. Just not today. Sorry. Also, don't feel responsible, Nameless, I'm cranky, overmedicated and homesick.
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Post Post #352 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:44 am

Post by Mirth »

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VOTE COUNT


GnKoihi - 4 - [Stef, Kmd, charter, Nameless]
Wall-E - 4 - [Plum, animorpherv, orangepenguin, GnKoichi]

Orangepenguin - 1 - [Wall-E]
Not Voting - 3 - [Mana_Ku, Tony Montana, Kiro]

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Post Post #353 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:43 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Nameless wrote:
GnKoichi wrote:I am not arguing semantics.
GnKoichi wrote:Nameless: That's not what "know" means,
Kmd4390 wrote:Wait. You say he basically admitted to being scum, but is being misleading? If he is misleading us, and admitting to being scum, wouldn't that make him town by your logic?
Wait, wait, wait. Now
Kmd
is misinterpreting GK?

Damn it people, you can't ALL be scum.
It was sarcasm.
GnKoichi wrote:Nameless, to imply that I'm arguing semantics because I am expecting people to use the actual meaning of words is ridiculous.
Umm. Using meanings of words to help a case is exactly what arguing semantics means.
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Post Post #354 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:02 am

Post by GnKoichi »

No, arguing semantics means you are arguing over what the meaning of a word is, trying to shift the meaning to help your case. Charter and I are using the same definition of the word. He made no arguments to say that I was misinterpreting him. He even anticipated my response, telling me not to bother without any good reasons not to, which means that he knew exactly what he was saying.
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Post Post #355 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:07 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Charter, did you knowingly claim scum?
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Post Post #356 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:19 am

Post by GnKoichi »

Kmd, that wasn't my argument and you know it. I never thought that Charter would knowingly claim scum. I was using the argument to show how misleading he was being YET AGAIN! But the harder I fight that battle, the more votes come my way. Don't think we're not watching for who's on this Charter Defense Brigade.

AND CHARTER STILL hasn't been able to justify that post. He's just pretending it never happened, because he has no excuse for how badly he played that bluff. He says he's got a suspicion on who's the real scum that borders on proof (using the word "know" twice), but he refuses to post it. He's as bad as Tony in terms of actual content. Charter may post more often, but he's added about as much real scumhunting to the game.
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Post Post #357 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:24 am

Post by GnKoichi »

EBWOP: Also, to say that your bad misinterpretation of my argument was just "sarcasm" isn't going to fly. I got called on that myself this game, so there's no way it's going to get you off the hook. Own up to a bad post.
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Post Post #358 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:37 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Kmd4390 wrote:Wait. You say he basically admitted to being scum, but is being misleading? If he is misleading us, and admitting to being scum, wouldn't that make him town by your logic?

Sorry, but bad case.
You think I was really trying to tell you that Charter misled us by claiming scum as town? No. Straight up sarcasm. If you can't see it, then I don't even know what to tell you.
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Post Post #359 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:37 am

Post by Wall-E »

lol nub
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Post Post #360 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:43 am

Post by Mana_Ku »

Got my prod. But my post has to wait till tomorrow as I'm offline soon.
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Post Post #361 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:45 am

Post by GnKoichi »

Kmd, now your misinterpreting your OWN posts. I never said that you believed that Charter had done that. You said that I believed it, because you misunderstood my post before it. Both Nameless and I called you on it, because it was a CLEAR misunderstanding that you tried to use against me to make my position look even worse. If you meant that statement sarcastically, it means that you DIDN'T believe the accusation you were making against me, so why make it? You tried to back peddle out of this one, but you're running out of room before the cliff.
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Post Post #362 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:00 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

I'd like to hear about charter say something about him claiming scum. I think he's either being stupid, or a jester of some sort, so for now.

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Post Post #363 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:01 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Are you kidding? You are going to tell me that I don't even know what I was trying to say? That is horrible.

I was using sarcasm saying that Charter had "admitted to being scum" while "misleading the town", like you said he was. The sarcastic part was saying that a misleading scum claim would actually be a town claim. If you don't get that, there's something wrong.
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Post Post #364 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:02 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Animo, Charter never claimed scum. He said something that made GnK say that Charter admitted to being scum.
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Post Post #365 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:05 am

Post by GnKoichi »

Yeah, except that's not what Nameless and I called you on, and you just repeated the mistake again. I never said Charter was both claiming scum and being misleading, I said he was doing ONE OF THOSE TWO THINGS! I said it in three separate posts, and two of those posts had them in a numerical list of options. How you made this mistake, confused what the mistake was, and then repeated it a page later is beyond me. You are either incapable of making any kind of post analysis OR you are continuing your strategy from earlier in the game which is to take my words and twist them to make me look bad. Also, both times you did it was in defense of Charter. Careful there.
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Post Post #366 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:16 am

Post by Wall-E »

People who I think are paying attention and playing well:

GnKoichi: NOOB
Kmd4390: Feeding the NOOB/Paying attention
Nameless: Paying attention
Kiro: Paying attention
Plum: Paying attention

Other people:

animorpherv1: Lurking and not reading NOT DOING WELL
Mana_Ku: Absent NOT DOING WELL
Tony Montana: Absent

Everyone else: No posts in three pages.
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Post Post #367 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:52 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

Kmd4390 wrote:Animo, Charter never claimed scum. He said something that made GnK say that Charter admitted to being scum.
oops.

Walle-E, you should put me down as NOOB as well.
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Post Post #368 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:53 am

Post by Nameless »

GnKoichi wrote:No, arguing semantics means you are arguing over what the meaning of a word is, trying to shift the meaning to help your case.
Technically it's a bit wider than that, and given your case relies entirely on ignoring ...

NO. No, I am NOT going to argue semantics over arguing semantics. Now this is just getting stupid. Certain posters need to start playing this game or request replacement ([Out Of Game]I'm serious, you're being unfair on those who are not to mention extremely irritating[/OOG]) and Charter needs to get in here and start answering questions (although, feel free to ignore GK's nonargument, I know I would :roll:). Failing that, GK or Wall-E need more votes.
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Post Post #369 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:33 pm

Post by Wall-E »

Nameless, stop pushing for a lynch for transparently OMGUS reasons.
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Post Post #370 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:32 pm

Post by Plum »

GnKoichi wrote:Plum: Clarification: I meant that there are other people who had a scum read on Wall-E before I made my argument, so it wouldn't be a stretch to find evidence against him if Charter flipped scum.
Good grief, GnK, but I want to hear your opinion about the cases on Wall-E to this point. If you don't think they're enough to warrant suspicion now, and had something of a town read on him despite them, I'd hate for you to come back Day 2 and say 'I was right/wrong about Charter, sure, but let's go back and see what Wall-E's done if you
haven't acknowledged any scumtells of his before hand
. You don't seem to have suspicions of Wall-E independent of Charter's votes, you seem to have the willingness to have an easy time 'finding evidence' against him if Chater flips scum. Your behavior here is rediculous. You seem to express contradictory feelings as to whether your suspicions of Wall-E are independent of Charter's actions or not. It seems to be 'no, unless I find it convenient to bring up actions of Wall-E's I hadn't commented on as being scummy at the time after Charter's lynch'. Furthermore, I still don't think your reasons for thinking Wall-E and Charter are a scumteam are legit.
GnKoichi wrote:Okay, how are we even still talking about this? This is not me twisting Charter's words. He is the one trying to make it clear now that Wall-E not being scum is not a hunch, but knowledge. Something that he knows, as in a fact. Not a strong feeling. Not a really good theory. HE is the one who says this. I just called him on it.

As was said before, this has only three implications:

1) He and Wall-E are scum, hence his "knowledge" of who is and isn't a scumbuddy.

2) He is lying, and this proves my point of how misleading he has been ALL GAME!

3) He has information he shouldn't have, making him a cheater (since he didn't get Mod killed for saying this, I assume he isn't).

Whatever you think about me, how is this not the easiest thing to vote for ever?
charter wrote:Why I think GK is scum and Wall-E is not? Just a feeling, obviously I don't know.
Hate to be the voice of reason here, but Charter calling his suspicions/lack thereof so strongly doesn't have to be because he already knows this and doesn't mean he's trying to mislead us into thinking he's got confirmation on that. The way you push this as an absolute declaration by Charter of his own scumminess is rediculous. These are obviously his suspicions. He's wording them strongly, and that just may be the way he does it and certainly is not a wrong way to do it, in my humble opinion. It ain't my way, but in this instance I can look at it and feel fine thinking 'all right, Charter suspects GnK and doesn't think he and Wall-E are scumbuddies' as opposed to 'Charter's saying this because he actually knows who the scumbuddies are because he's scum' or 'He doesn't know this but he's trying to mislead us by implying that he does'. Furthermore, Charter said he thinks
you
are scum and Wall-E isn't, so if he were scum saying this from knowledge, wouldn't he have just implyed
you
as his scumbuddy? Your argument falls to pieces, how fun.
GnKoichi wrote:I don't mean to be arrogant, but is there anything that would make me wrong here? Isn't this the strongest scum argument we've seen all game? EVERYONE! Please throw your votes to Charter! He has almost admitted to being scum. Wall-E is almost certainly his partner, but even if that's wrong, Charter is the best Lynch, by far. No matter what you think about me, if you can't find a counter to my argument, please do the right thing and VOTE FOR CHARTER! . . .
. . . HE ADMITTED TO BEING SCUM!
In my humble opinion, with the absolute craplogic that
has been countered
and calling for votes on him for it vehemantly and IN CAPITAL LETTERS . . . I lack a witty remark, sorry. No, not strongest scum argument we've seen all game. For goodness' sake, he implyed his own suspicions with strong terms, something we've seen in a different light with Wall-E etc. He did not admit to being scum. The way you keep pushing this rediculous accusation is by far closer to 'the stringest scum argument we've seen all game'.
Nameless wrote:Charter has done several dubious things but what you are actually pushing on him amounts to incredibly exaggerated semantics. I pointed this out nicely, and you repeat the craplogic louder. This, plus most of what Kiro argued in #330, makes me reasonably sure you're scum.
Quoted For Truth, friends.
GnKoichi wrote:I haven't seen anyone make a good argument against my Charter/Wall-E theory.
Your theory is based on interpretations that work only at a stretch anyway. My basic interpretation of Charter's vote is like Kiro's: Based on suspicions of OP's quick quote-and-vote of Wall-E, and perhaps partly a warning regarding that. Your interpretation of his vote on you is that he was voting you only because you voted Wall-E his, you suppose, scumbuddy. Instead, he seems to say it's based on gut and his previous case against you, which I personally believe is still valid. Hence I think your strong belief in their buddyship is baloney.
animorpherv1 wrote:I'd like to hear about charter say something about him claiming scum. I think he's either being stupid, or a jester of some sort, so for now.

FOS:charter
IGMEOY
. Read the thread before you repeat untruths and/or craplogic, please, especially if you're coming out of lurking/little posting to do only that.
charter wrote:I'm not saying rush, but lets try and wrap up day one.
It's taking a few pages, but not too long real time-wise and we're getting stuff done, which is good. I've been in a longer Day 1 with fewer people and we ended up lynching scum, so I'm all right with discussion continuing as it will until the lynch.

Unvote, Vote: GnKoichi
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Post Post #371 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:33 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

Wall-E wrote:Nameless, stop pushing for a lynch for transparently OMGUS reasons.
I have to agree with Wall-E on this one. I think Namless is up to something, thought I don't know what.
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Post Post #372 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:40 pm

Post by GnKoichi »

Alright, jesus, this isn't going well at all.

I've tried to do the scumhunting that everyone was calling for earlier in the game, but the harder I try, to he more of a scum vibe I seem to give off to everyone. I don't want to put town in the hole day 1 and have you lynch me just because I've been so vocal. I had opinions. I shared them. I don't think I've been so terrible even though I may be wrong. I don't think I've been any more insistent the some other posters (Charter or Nameless for example), and I think I've posted more evidence than most. You can disagree, fine, but I'm working harder to find the scum in this game than anyone.

But in doing so, I haven't put any effort into defending myself. I made this clear. Anyone would try to be defensive, scum or town, because no one wants to get lynched. But now I've still got two people who are voting for me for something that I did on page three!!! So, before I let this day end with me in a noose, down one town, I'd like to give people a chance to ask me specific questions about my actions, in regards to why you are voting for me. I'll answer them. I'll defend myself.

I don't think we should let this day end before we hear these questions from at least Kmd and Stef, and I think we should also hear these "heavy" suspicions that Charter doesn't want to let out of the bag yet. Finally, I think we need a Plum-length post from Tony, Mana, OP, and Ani. Does that sound fair?
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Post Post #373 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:45 pm

Post by GnKoichi »

Also, I want to start that process by answering Plum's question, which I had before mistaken as a question of my general day 2 theory.

Why am I voting for Wall-E, independent of my theory connecting him to Charter?

His behavior degenerated extremely quickly when votes started to come his way. As was said by me before, this either makes him scum who felt the mob coming, or an extremely volatile player who could end up hurting the town either way.

There are plenty of WIFOMy reasons as well (coming to my defense when that was an unpopular thing to do, giving up his argument against Nameless & Charter a little too quickly when it began to weaken, 'admitting' that he just isn't trying very hard this game). All together, it doesn't seem like he's done much good for us. He participate heavily in the set up portion of the game, then called the portion useless and called for more scumhunting, but then he gave that up after one attempt. He doesn't seem to have any cohesive strategy.

So, those two things. Loose cannon. No direction.
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Post Post #374 (ISO) » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:18 pm

Post by GnKoichi »

Just going through and looking for other loose questions that have been directed at me lately:

In regards to EVERYONE and my recent argument against Charter and the word "know". Everyone seems to be ignoring his original post, which I will post again here.
charter wrote:Wall-E has been anything but a lurker, OP has been nothing but a lurker. And my reason for finding Wall-E town is that you and him are not scumbuddies, which leaves you. Go ahead and call me out for just stating it, I'm not going to tell how I know this right now, and don't even try and push the "charter must know cause he's scum" crap. I'm actually getting really fed up with this game and a lot of the people letting you off the hook despite the mountain of evidence pointing towards you being scum.
He was the first one to change the argument from a hunch to a matter of "know"ing. I just called him on it. And he still hasn't refuted this claim. Even if all he meant was that he has an extremely strong feeling based on a lot of good reasons that are good enough for me to completely 180 my opinion on Wall-E, he still hasn't posted that information. A little bit after this post he said:
charter wrote:Also, I want to post my suspicions of who the scum and SK are. Sooo tempting (not gonna do it now cause I don't want to open a whole new can of worms).
Again he references his information or theory. He holds it over our heads. Why not just say it? The only reason he would have to not post it is that then we can try to refute it. I think we need to hear it.

Since nobody else actually thinks that Charter is being misleading in this series of quotes, I'll drop it. But I think we can all agree that Charter is withhold information that the group should hear. He has been dodging pretty much all questions, as many others have noted.

---
Kiro wrote:GnK explained he voted Wall-E to L-2 saying that it was a warning, but he still had a bit of a town read on him. What kind of an action is that? It is not your job to help "wake up Wall-E" and did you think it was going to help him by actually voting him and giving him one more person he has to convince? That explanation makes no sense from a pro-Town viewpoint. If you had a slight Town read on him, what were you going to do if Wall-E was pushed to L-1? Pretend to be swayed extra quick and unvote him before he gets hammered?
Yes, that was my plan. It wasn't a great one, but this is a tough question of "Pro-Town" ideas from someone who suggest we not protect tonight. I know it wasn't my job to do this, but I felt a small obligation to Wall-E after he stood up for me earlier in the game. For anyone else, even if I really believed they were town, I wouldn't have bothered. I was trying to return a favor. It didn't quite play out that way, but that's how Day 1 seems to go.

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Nameless wrote:Charter has done several dubious things but what you are actually pushing on him amounts to incredibly exaggerated semantics. I pointed this out nicely, and you repeat the craplogic louder.
I repeated it because you were dismissive. If you had offered an actual counterpoint, one that included a good reason for Charter's behavior, I would have had something new to respond to. I can't counter an argument that you don't make.

You yourself said that Wall-E is the biggest threat and that Charter and I are likely both town and we've been allowed by a lurking scum team to tear each other apart. What happened to change that?

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I think that covers any questions of me from the last three pages. Anything I missed?
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