House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[VP Baltar]

Like it’s not a ridiculous argument.

Maybe, but I also just as a policy don't speculate about reasons behind replace outs. It means absolutely nothing to me because it's never more than speculation.

I only look at play in the game. Johnny cannot live until endgame. Neither can Shea or FB as far as I'm concerned.

[Firebringer]

i don't think ur really looking at peoples mindset tho and i think thats not good for actually playing the game.

[VP Baltar]

i don't think ur really looking at peoples mindset tho and i think thats not good for actually playing the game.

yeah, I'm terrible at this game except for all my reads being correct so far.

[Firebringer]

good work

[VP Baltar]

explain your titus scum read while you're here.

[Firebringer]

it was only based on a theory of WIM. Not really actually thinking she is showing any scum motivation.

[Firebringer]

okay i have work deadlines due today so i can't procrastinate by posting here. will be here late late tonight, maybe.
im seriously bad for posting as much in here when i got a million things to do and wasting work day.

[ProfessorDrapion]

I would like GuiltyLion to reconsider his Firebringer read.

VOTE: UNOwen

Die!

[GuiltyLion]

Overall, I see two people who believe the other is scum. Right now I'm leaning on it being TvS but I digress

So that being said, what do you think of their stances? Even if there is still more to be desired. Do you believe they are being intentionally vague?

I don't think they're being intentionally vague, but I do feel like they're not seriously trying. I think my central issue is it feels like they had page 5 scumreads on Datisi/Luke/Dann and then haven't evolved them at all, nor given us any new ones that are demonstrably impacted by the past 60+ pages.

I think the towniest thing from this perspective is what I just said, the fact that their Lukewarm scumread seems to have slightly softened, the only scum!agenda I can see there is if they're trying not to piss off Lukewarm and bait him onto their wagon, but even then when Lukewarm indicated that he

didn't

like Dwlee's reaction/response, Dwlee still just kinda nonchalantly doubles down on it.

you're right overall, it's mostly that I desire a lot more from them more than I think these stances can't come from town

As I said, I think the situation is possibly TvS. I may be just paranoid(?) about datisi for no reason and Dwlee is just scum who doesn't give a fuck

quick point on unwnd associatives

this angle in particular, taking a TvS stance on a townie (Datisi) calling out a scum (Dwlee), is like super textbook scum distancing ploy. unwnd can fight against the Dwlee wagon by shading one of the main proponents, while leaving himself room to flip his read on Dwlee if/when Datisi is flipped and if he needs to start bussing to follow the winds of the town.

I find it's actually pretty rare that townies take a stance of "this dialogue between two players is TvS, but I'm not totally sure which is T and which is S". I don't think townies tend to think like that in practice whereas scum more often feel this looks like real solving. A townie is more likely to just... townread their T read and scumread their S read and not leave themselves wiggle room to 180 reverse those reads later. or, alternatively, if they truly feel ambivalent/uncertain about it, they're not gonna be thinking about it as a TvS scenario in the first place, they think it may still be TvT.

so yeah, this looks fake and like a scum angle to take

[GuiltyLion]

I’m finding the argument that Rhaenyra wouldn’t try so strongly to put Town they seem to be solid as King to the point where they rage quit the game somewhat persuasive.

Rhaenyra didn't rage quit, she got force replaced for breaking Pooky's rules about posting multiple votes in a 6 hour span

what do you think about the unwnd replace out though? I'm having a hard time figuring out what the town explanation is there.

[VP Baltar]

TSQ - you know strategically we do need to replace the council at some point, right? I don't love having to lim you either, but from my perspective we are going to run into issues with the power roles and dealing with FB before we catch all the scum.

I'm open to other ideas, but my proposal is the most efficient and gives town the most runway to solve the game.

[VP Baltar]

Posting Math's reads since he gave them before he died. He believed Shea is scum, as well as firebringer, and talked openly about that in the Supporters PT last night. His preferred worldview was:

Scum: Shea, FB, Johnny, Drapion

Many of us argued Shea was town though, so he gave a list in a Shea town world (though he didn't agree with this view):

Scum: Johnny, Dann, Owen, LLD ... outside chances on Drapion and Enchant.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Flavor

A trial by combat is a means by which a party can prove their innocence when accused of a crime in the Seven Kingdoms. In lieu of a standard trial where a lord - or a council of them - hears testimony from the involved parties and makes a ruling, one or all parties may choose the option of a trial by combat.

Only highborn noblemen have the right to request a trial by combat: smallfolk do not possess this right. Noblewomen apparently also have the right to request a trial by combat but are not expected to fight themselves.

If a highborn is accused of a crime, at any point during the trial held by the local lord he can demand his right to a trial by combat. This right is held to be so inviolable that even a lord that is fully convinced that the accused should die would be hesitant to simply deny such a request (if it is made in public, at least). Even members of the royal family or high officials such as the Hand of the King would feel incapable of denying the request if it was made publicly.

In a trial by combat the accused may represent themselves in combat or, if unable (such as if they are female, injured, crippled, a dwarf, or otherwise incapacitated), may ask for a champion to represent them. The presiding lord may, at least, demand that they pick a champion from currently available warriors, i.e. instead of allowing them to name a champion currently located on the far side of Westeros, attempting to try to delay the trial by weeks.

A trial by combat does not, necessarily, need to be fought to the death. It is fought until one man yields - though if the accused is representing himself he would fight to the death to avoid a certain execution, and even the champion of an accused man will often fight to the death due to potential reward from the accused if he wins. The fight can also end if the accuser withdraws the accusation, or the accused confesses.

The victorious party is held to have had his or her case judged fairly by the gods (be it the Seven, the Old Gods of the Forest, or whatever they worship) and has proven their innocence in the eyes of the gods. Hence, if the accused party is victorious, they are cleared of all charges. If the accused or their champion is defeated, however, then they are considered guilty and condemned to death. While in theory the gods will favor the righteous party, most often the winner tends to simply be the strongest, the quickest, or just the luckiest.

Trial by Combat Rules

A player may challenge any other player to trial by combat during the day. If it is accepted - the players will gather their weapons and fight to the

death

until reasonably satisfied. [There is a 5% chance of either player dying in a trial]

Only two trials may occur on each day. First come first served.

Challenge other players by typing in the thread

Challenge: Target

, accept challenges with

Accept Challenge

and quoting the challenging post.

[Thestatusquo]

What.

[Thestatusquo]

What does...the winning player get? What game function does this serve? A 5% chance of a dayvig with a 5% risk you die? Is the winning player not limmable?

I legitimately do not understand what function this serves even a little bit.

[Roden]

If people genuinely think I'm scum then I'm down to challenge someone, preferably GL. I'd like more of an explanation as well though.

[Dannflor]

oh my god please don't challenge GL

oh my god please no one use this

[Roden]

Pretty obviously not scum by play but I'm used to people making bad reads on me for things that don't make sense at this point.

[Roden]

oh my god please don't challenge GL

oh my god please no one use this

Why, do you think we're somehow both town? I'm accused of having associatives and trying to save Dwlee (I wasn't, I literally shifted my read over the 24 hours that I came into the game, it isn't scummy to not know who's scum the moment I replace in), while GL and Dwlee have really bad associations.

[UNOwen]

Half the people in my PT are plotting against the King but I guess that would be expected for the non-supporters. Before Johnny replaced in, 90% of Rhaenyra's posts were about plotting a coup and political intrigue roleplay. Shortly after you made this post, several people began publicly discussing how they plan to overthrow the King depending on or regardless of Dwlee's flip. Day 2 start is also a pretty good place to look.

Please elaborate on this with specific names.

[Thestatusquo]

oh my god please don't challenge GL

oh my god please no one use this

Why, do you think we're somehow both town? I'm accused of having associatives and trying to save Dwlee (I wasn't, I literally shifted my read over the 24 hours that I came into the game, it isn't scummy to not know who's scum the moment I replace in), while GL and Dwlee have really bad associations.

could you elaborate on that last point?

[furtiveglance]

Are votes to eliminate still active?

[Roden]

Some thoughts I had in the non supporter PT during night

Dwlee started looking a lot worse after I started defending them, so I'm not as shocked after the flip today as I would've been yesterday. I don't think the wagon or the way they played makes much sense though.

I've changed my mind on Titus at this point, I feel like she would've tried to capitalize more on the Dwlee elim if she were scum. I also think some interactions between her and GL are anti-partnery, so most likely not S/S.

GL's response to my last post was really bad. It was just full of snipes at me and him making it clear how badly he wants to scum read me even though he knows it doesn't actually make any sense for me to be scum here. He's had a pretty consistent pattern of attacking and threatening anyone who suspects him all game, it doesn't really match up with his past town games.

Also his denial of using AtE is a very blatant lie and I feel confident that only scum would have to lie about it. And as an aside I find it very interesting that Dwlee never voted to eliminate him, not even to try to save themself. Just a single blank vote to nominate GL as King and then they never explained why.

Execution Vote Day Two

With nineteen players alive - it will require ten votes to eliminate a player.

GuiltyLion [5]:

Junkochan, Thestatusquo, Firebringer, mastina, ProfessorDrapion

Dwlee99 [5]:

GuiltyLion, Titus, Datisi, Andresvmb, VP Baltar

Firebringer [2]:

Enchant, furtiveglance,

not voting [7]:

JohnnyFarrar, PenguinPower, Andante, Dannflor, Unowen, Lady Lambdadelta, Dwlee99


Execution Deadline: (expired on 2022-12-02 22:58:35)

At one point GL was a counter wagon to Dwlee and they were tied at five votes each. GL was voting Dwlee, but Dwlee was not voting GL. For whatever reason, Dwlee wasn't trying to survive the vote and didn't do anything noticeable to put their team in a better spot following their elim. But I could see them hesitating to shift momentum and vote out GL if they're both scum, since Dwlee doesn't look particularly more townie on a GL red flip, but GL on a surface level looks better on a Dwlee red flip. It's an opportunity cost that only exists if they're aligned and only hurts the scum team if they aren't.

I don't think it's a fake association either because you kind of have to dig to even notice it. Dwlee voting to try to put GL in power and then refusing to shift wagon momentum towards him to avoid their own elim looks very partnery.

[Roden]

Half the people in my PT are plotting against the King but I guess that would be expected for the non-supporters. Before Johnny replaced in, 90% of Rhaenyra's posts were about plotting a coup and political intrigue roleplay. Shortly after you made this post, several people began publicly discussing how they plan to overthrow the King depending on or regardless of Dwlee's flip. Day 2 start is also a pretty good place to look.

Please elaborate on this with specific names.

At this point it's not really a thing anymore, reads shifted.

[UNOwen]

At this point it's not really a thing anymore, reads shifted.

No but at the time it was a thing so should be possible for you to list the names right?